Windows 10 High DPC Latency on dxgkrnl.sys, nvlddmkm.sys, USBPORT.SYS - Competitive Experience = Disaster

darKz

Posts: 14   +0
Came from a website telling the best tech forums of 2020, so I've been getting this huge latencies since I've bought this used HP OEM System 2 months ago, but didn't really checked it with the LatencyMon. Those drivers are going beyond craziness ****ing with me, as an hardcore competitive gamer this could be easily considered as an disaster on its own world as I feel like I'm 3000-5000ms behind the real world actions but luckily the sounds ain't really popping off or something similar happening or even delayed maybe they are but not as noticeable as showing the targets and overall the system just ain't smooth as should even with a SSD. Thanks

Usually those are with the worst possible latencies:
dxgkrnl.sys
nvlddmkm.sys
USBPORT.SYS

System specs: HP ProDesk 400 G1 MT

CPU: i7 4790 (3790.95GHz all the time)
RAM: Samsung 8 GB (4x4) 1600Mhz CL11
Motherboard: MS-7860 VER: 1.2
GPU: Asus Dual GTX 1650 4GB OC (75W, PCI-E Powered)
KingFast: 128 GB (68.517% used)
PSU: HP PCC 130 - 300WLatencyMon HIGH LATENCIES.png
 

darKz

Posts: 14   +0
Looks like the 'best tech forums of 2020' has to review their reviews of the forums once again.
 

Kshipper

Posts: 523   +116
TechSpot Elite
I7-4790 is getting old (6 to 7 years old) for competitive gaming purposes. The best gamers use much newer processors and more powerful graphics so that they can run very fast frame rates, refresh rates (typically 144Hz or higher) and monitors with low response time (0.5MS). They really have an advantage if they have a great Internet connection which can be an additional source latency in gaming. Your only hope with that rig, is low detail to improve response time. Remove all security programs and just rely on the built in security. Stop as many background processes as you can. Remove any software you don't use because software like Adobe Reader will self update and Apple software will self update and browsers do it too. You want to lighten the load wherever you can.
 
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darKz

Posts: 14   +0
I7-4790 is getting old (6 to 7 years old) for competitive gaming purposes. The best gamers use much newer processors and more powerful graphics so that they can run very fast frame rates, refresh rates (typically 144Hz or higher) and monitors with low response time (0.5MS). They really have an advantage if they have a great Internet connection which can also introduce latency in gaming. Your only hope with that rig is low detail to improve response time. Remove all security program and just rely on the build security. Stop as many back ground processes as you can. Remove any software you don't use because Adobe Reader will self update and Apple software will self update and browsers do it too. You want to lighten the load wherever you can.
I would say i7 4790 is the minimum for competitive gaming especially CSGO but only if it has a decent gaming motherboard especially the Z97 one with great VRMs. I've already got a 240Hz monitor with 1 MS response time + DyAc (For getting CRT's-alike smoothness). (Those are only marginal improvements, didn't said about 240Hz Refresh Rate tho). I've also got FTTH which provides me superior internet connection quality with significantly low latencies. I already play on the lowest settings, I haven't either installed any third party antivirus except the in-build one. I've stopped basically everything in the background running processes. I've debloated the whole Windows 10 from every unnecessary app that I don't need. But yet the visual latency issues still persists. It's looks like some software nor hardware issues but it could be the "only business designed for light office working with naked and weak VRMs" motherboard that might be playing around with the visual latencies and the whole PC performance fluidity.
 

darKz

Posts: 14   +0
Do you have or use any USB devices in the PC?
The only USB devices I have connected are the mouse one and monitor one but still no change even after removing it. My keyboard is PS/2. I've disable DWM as well but it's not worth sacrificing the smoothness for a faster input lag and choppy visual performance where in my case it only makes things worse.
 
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neeyik

Posts: 1,877   +2,191
Staff member
One possible thing to try is to make sure that you only use one USB 3.0 port on the PC, just for the mouse - have nothing else using USB. You can check to see that you're using that and nothing else with USBTreeView:


Then, in Device Manager, disable (don't uninstall) any USB controllers that you're not using - e.g. Nvidia or Generic USB. The more devices you have connected to a hub and the more hubs a controller has to manage, the more latency issues you can potentially run into.

Have you altered the polling rate of the mouse? If set to high, then this can also cause problems.
 

darKz

Posts: 14   +0
One possible thing to try is to make sure that you only use one USB 3.0 port on the PC, just for the mouse - have nothing else using USB. You can check to see that you're using that and nothing else with USBTreeView:

(30 days available link)

Then, in Device Manager, disable (don't uninstall) any USB controllers that you're not using - e.g. Nvidia or Generic USB. The more devices you have connected to a hub and the more hubs a controller has to manage, the more latency issues you can potentially run into.

Have you altered the polling rate of the mouse? If set to high, then this can also cause problems.
I mean I'm not even sure it has or even supports one since I've noticed myself that there's no USB 3.0 host driver in the Device Manager. It also has different USB host controller even though in the bios there is USB 3.0 BIOS Support option. I've got this pc system used for a good price in great condition 2 months ago, but it seems that the Windows 10 is cloned from his laptop or something not sure. Since I bought a brand new SSD for the first time for that pc and he had the Windows 10 already cloned most likely. I'm mostly having problems with visual latencies rather input ones even the LatencyMon shows that it has unbelievably high latency in the main tab for the Nvidia's Display Drivers which is already noticeable even in the real world scenario.

There are some reports about the USB Device Tree Viewer:

USB Tree.png

XML Report with the Monitor USB Connection included:
https://file.io/Lh2PAziGRUVt

Device manager:

Device manager.png

DPC Latency after 1 hour of competitive gaming session:

Real Latencies from the GPU.png

I've also ordered an Asus Maximus VII Hero Z97 motherboard but hasn't yet arrived but still would want to get this problem fixed even at this pc.
 
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neeyik

Posts: 1,877   +2,191
Staff member
There are some reports about the USB Device Tree Viewer:

View attachment 87343
That's actually stating your Generic USB 2.0 hub is running in USB 1.1 mode, which may well go some way to explaining your problems. High latency problems with the USB system will affect the rest of the PC, and given that you're playing games with settings that's pushing the performance limit entirely onto the CPU+system, any issues there will result in latency problems with rendering.

It will be like this either because the mouse is USB 1.1 or the motherboard BIOS (it's one from a Hewlett Packard system) is configured that way - I suspect it's the former, because the chipset on the board supports USB 3.0.
 

darKz

Posts: 14   +0
That's actually stating your Generic USB 2.0 hub is running in USB 1.1 mode, which may well go some way to explaining your problems. High latency problems with the USB system will affect the rest of the PC, and given that you're playing games with settings that's pushing the performance limit entirely onto the CPU+system, any issues there will result in latency problems with rendering.

It will be like this either because the mouse is USB 1.1 or the motherboard BIOS (it's one from a Hewlett Packard system) is configured that way - I suspect it's the former, because the chipset on the board supports USB 3.0.
As I can tell here, it looks like it is the Intel(R) 8 Series/C220 USB EHCI Driver likely causing the latency problems (as the GPU is brand new one) with the whole System PCI-E Interconnection since the Intel® USB 3.0 eXtensible Host Controller Driver
it only is available for Windows 7 and the Windows Update doesn't even recognize the USB 3.0 Driver for my HP ProDesk G1 MT PC. The only thing that I had problems with the mouse back then was as I remember the back USB Ports which I had the mouse connected in (they all looks like USB 2.0) but when I connected my mouse (https://www.bloody.com/en/product.php?pid=10&id=125) in the front USB 3.0 Ports , the mouse was working a lot more stable and faster since then. I'm not sure it either is because the Windows 10 installed in the new SSD is because of cloned Windows 10 from a laptop and it had also some unnecessary drivers like Synaptics Pointing drivers and some unnecessary drivers but I got them uninstalled and everything what was related to it. Also even the CPU driver doesn't show as i7 4790 but only as Intel Processor for the 8 logical processors. The inputs from either the keyboard or mouse are registering just fine, I've noticed that even while gaming the inputs are already fast enough and not that game breaking unlike the GPU visual latencies (and it actually even gives some gaming breakable sttuters) that are considered as an disaster if not render right in time especially on FPS shooting games where those things are night and day noticeable for pro gamers. As I said I ordered the Asus Maximus VII Hero Z97 one motherboard and I'll hopefully get it working in the upcoming week which I think it is surely going to fix all those issues. But I would still want to fix the problem if it as actually in the USB driver that is affecting the whole PCI-e Interconnection with the system.

P.s: Alright, I actually managed to install the USB 3.0 Driver from Microsoft messing around with the USB EHCI Port Debug option that I disabled on bios and after removing every single USB Driver in Universal Serial Bus Controller on Device Manager (surprisingly it works now while before it did not even with the same procedure applied) but looks like the mouse is capable on using the Full-Speed (USB 2.0 version) based on the USB Tree Viewer but it still kinda locked on version 1.10 even though at the Mouse's Official page it states that it supports USB 2/3.0 but looks like it doesn't not actually support more than 1.10 as seen on the USB Tree Viewer , the monitor USB does work at super-speed tho. The input lags are superior now (even better than they were) even the system looks like it is lightened up from those drivers latencies but the GPU drivers is still causing lots of visual latencies and stutters, it's just ain't smooth as it should especially at that fixed cpu clock rate. Now that the input lags are even better the visual latency ones are even more significantly noticeable and the un-smoothness and stutters look way worse.
USB 3.0.png
 
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darKz

Posts: 14   +0
That's actually stating your Generic USB 2.0 hub is running in USB 1.1 mode, which may well go some way to explaining your problems. High latency problems with the USB system will affect the rest of the PC, and given that you're playing games with settings that's pushing the performance limit entirely onto the CPU+system, any issues there will result in latency problems with rendering.

It will be like this either because the mouse is USB 1.1 or the motherboard BIOS (it's one from a Hewlett Packard system) is configured that way - I suspect it's the former, because the chipset on the board supports USB 3.0.
Those are the new screenshots on Latency Mon after 3 days with the new USB 3.0 driver:

CSGO.png

CSGO 2.png

The input lag performance is superior but indeed the visual latency is a disaster, there's even more noticeable stutters as well as the visual latency got even more distinguishable. I'm not sure what is causing this either the 75 PCI-E Slot Watted GPU or the "only weak office designed" OEM motherboard that isn't able to power it on sufficiently.
 

neeyik

Posts: 1,877   +2,191
Staff member
I'm not sure what is causing this either the 75 PCI-E Slot Watted GPU or the "only weak office designed" OEM motherboard that isn't able to power it on sufficiently.
Probably the latter - when TechPowerUp reviewed an MSI GTX 1650, they found the average power consumption was 72W in gaming, but peaked at 80W (and even reached 91W in Furmark). Given that this motherboard was designed to support graphics cards plugging 20 to 35W, it may be failing to cope with the current draw on the slot.

You might be able to monitor this using GPU-Z (download link) - just go into the Sensor and see what's being monitored. If the option to monitor the PCIe bus is there, you can log the info to file while you're gaming.
 

darKz

Posts: 14   +0
Probably the latter - when TechPowerUp reviewed an MSI GTX 1650, they found the average power consumption was 72W in gaming, but peaked at 80W (and even reached 91W in Furmark). Given that this motherboard was designed to support graphics cards plugging 20 to 35W, it may be failing to cope with the current draw on the slot.

You might be able to monitor this using GPU-Z (download link) - just go into the Sensor and see what's being monitored. If the option to monitor the PCIe bus is there, you can log the info to file while you're gaming.
I do usually average on 47-54 W while gaming based on Nvidia's Advanced Performance Overlay, the render latencies are low enough but the DPC ones are the worst.

I was fully convinced myself already that it is the oem motherboard that is not designed and capable for such hardcore competitive gaming that requires superior low latencies but still. I got the brand new Asus Maximus VII Hero Z97 yesterday and will find out once I get the PSU and the RAM's

The moral of all this story to those whom got stuck on this brutal disaster:
Never ever think to game competitively on OEM PCs, as they are a complete failure when it comes to that point.
 

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neeyik

Posts: 1,877   +2,191
Staff member
I do usually average on 47-54 W while gaming based on Nvidia's Advanced Performance Overlay, the render latencies are low enough but the DPC ones are the worst.
Which is further proof that you have games setup to be almost entirely CPU-limited (not a bad thing, just an observation) so any latencies in that area will just exacerbate the problems you've experienced. But at least the information discounts the motherboard power supply as being the issue.

I was fully convinced myself already that it is the oem motherboard that is not designed and capable for such hardcore competitive gaming that requires superior low latencies but still.
It's a HP business/office computer from 2014 - it wasn't designed for any gaming, let alone high FPS, low latency e-sports.
 

darKz

Posts: 14   +0
Which is further proof that you have games setup to be almost entirely CPU-limited (not a bad thing, just an observation) so any latencies in that area will just exacerbate the problems you've experienced. But at least the information discounts the motherboard power supply as being the issue.

It's a HP business/office computer from 2014 - it wasn't designed for any gaming, let alone high FPS, low latency e-sports.

I mean I defintely would want to get an overclocked version of the i7 4790 to squeeze the peformance a lot more but unfortunately in my whole country there were no cpu such as K since they only sell those OEM PCs one got a good deal and just bought it, also had an brand new Asus Dual GTX 1650 that I boguht 2 months ago at that time and just paired it up.

I honestly didn't expect it to run FLAWLESSLY but I didn't expect it to be running this bad neither. What I can tell it to be causing that is the power limitation of that motherboard indeed the GPU's PCI-e x16 Slot one and the CPU Power Limitations on the weak VRMs and locked power consumption by the oem motherboard itself. I just hope it's not the variant of pcie slot powered GPU that is causing the issue since it wouldn't make sense to put in whatever motherboard you want.

There is already an review done from TechSpot on "Discrete Graphics Card on OEM PC's" which gives further insigts on this problem and why there's never a smooth peformance even at locked cpu clock rate with all the weak naked VRMs or "slightly oldweak ones" that are not designed for buttery smooth performance except mediocre performance for light tasks such as office ones. But one thing is for sure, playing competitively on that motherboard is an disaster even if you get the GPU 6+2 PIN powered cause the CPU VRMs will still power limit the peformance by a lot. There is the link of that review on an OEM PC which is almost similar to my one:


Anyways, Thanks a lot for the inquiries sir. I greatly appreciate the time and the informations.