Intel Core i9-13900K Review: Hot and Hungry

m3tavision

Posts: 1,118   +951
That's not a strong argument for me. One could say the same about people who built AMD PCs last year using Zen 3. By the time I need to upgrade the mobo, there will likely be 2 or 3 new CPU versions out not to mention all the other tech advancements I'll want. And I'll believe 6 years when I see it. AMD says 2025 and maybe beyond, maybe.

I'm sure you'll like the 7700X, but I don't think that's a slam dunk decision.

It may not be a strong argument for you, because you do not understand history.

Imagine those people who were saying the exact same thing you are^, 6 years ago when they bought their iNTEL 8700k & their friends were buying a Gen 1 Ryzen 1700x... lol.



People like to save money, not blow it.
The point is, you should never have to upgrade your mobo... just the components that go to it... (CPU, GPU, SSDs, Sound Cards, Memory, etc)

So that by the time you need a new mobo, you will also need a new system & case to facilitate the new ports * features, etc.
 

AlaskaGuy

Posts: 754   +630
Compare apples to apples. The 7950k and 13900k are productivity chips. Don't compare productivity chips to gaming chips like the i5s or ryzen 7700 or 7700s.

In terms of cooling, excess electricty usage/heat production is a bigger problem than overly thick IHS. Intel has a problem with excess power use and heat output, which is a harder problem to fix than AMD's problem of using an overly thick IHS. The later has more options in fixes to achieve lower temperatures with better cooling HSF, deliding, or playing around with undervolting. Ways to fix Intel can be along similar lines but it won't mitigate the problem as well.

For example, debaurer saw a 20'C temperature drop when he delidded the 7000 chip....you won't see that type of improvement if the problem is just too much power draw like with Intel chips. AMD's much lower overall power consumption also allows a wider range of coolers and won't force you into bigger liquid cooling.
Deliddle vs going into the bios and turning down the power limits.


 

hahahanoobs

Posts: 4,724   +2,693
1440p results are very much welcomed. Thank you!!!
With power consumption being a major concern, I'm surprised no UV'ing or power limits were attempted.
 

loki1944

Posts: 704   +526
Gets a lot less impressive @4k minimum settings as you can see in the Andantech review; which means at max settings (which anyone with 4090 or high end 3000 series would be looking at anyway) @ 2560x1440, 3440x1440, and 3840x2160 the difference is practically nil vs say, a 12700K, in any game that is actually demanding like RDR2.
 

Strawman

Posts: 606   +301
There was a chart with "Cinebench R23, Power Scaling" showing multicore score per wattage for the 13900K and the 7950X slaughtered that chip... Why was it taken down? I see no reference to the chart anymore....?
Because as steve tweeted, and I commented earlier, the graph is obviously wrong. He had problems with his motherboard not setting the right amount of voltage.
 

Morphine Child

Posts: 173   +324
This is one crazy world we live in. According to TPU this Cpu draw is 388W and 117C with limits disabled. Mix a 4090 in the same case with this beast and you will have a small furnace.
850-1000W in the same small case.

Call me crazy, but I refuse to believe this is the future of PC parts.
If I would put these parts into my case with my current slim air cooler it would throttle to 30% instantly, lol.
And funny thing is, it is more than enough for 5800 and 6700xt. What a bonkers parts these are.
 

Nintenboy01

Posts: 239   +185
Intel really needs a more efficient process and architecture like yesterday. Gonna wait until 15th Gen and see how they're doing then but they're just reinforcing that Apple was right to ditch them.
Also the 4090 may not be fully free of CPU bottlenecks at 1080p and even 1440p until at least Zen 5 or Intel 14th Gen
 

waclark

Posts: 799   +499
It may not be a strong argument for you, because you do not understand history.

Imagine those people who were saying the exact same thing you are^, 6 years ago when they bought their iNTEL 8700k & their friends were buying a Gen 1 Ryzen 1700x... lol.



People like to save money, not blow it.
The point is, you should never have to upgrade your mobo... just the components that go to it... (CPU, GPU, SSDs, Sound Cards, Memory, etc)

So that by the time you need a new mobo, you will also need a new system & case to facilitate the new ports * features, etc.
I understand history quite well. And here's a little fact for you. I keep my mobos for close to 5 years and sometimes longer. If you buy a 7950 or a Core i9 that CPU will last you until you need to replace your mobo in 5 years.

The thing is thinking that you'll buy a less expensive CPU today and upgrade in 2 or 3 years is blowing money. You'll spend $400 today and $400 when you upgrade when you could have just spent $700 or maybe less, and had the best performance you can get.

A GPU upgrade is more likely and more meaningful and that can be done with existing mobos and new ones. So, CPU upgrades are of little value to me.
 

waclark

Posts: 799   +499
Compare apples to apples. The 7950k and 13900k are productivity chips. Don't compare productivity chips to gaming chips like the i5s or ryzen 7700 or 7700s.

In terms of cooling, excess electricty usage/heat production is a bigger problem than overly thick IHS. Intel has a problem with excess power use and heat output, which is a harder problem to fix than AMD's problem of using an overly thick IHS. The later has more options in fixes to achieve lower temperatures with better cooling HSF, deliding, or playing around with undervolting. Ways to fix Intel can be along similar lines but it won't mitigate the problem as well.

For example, debaurer saw a 20'C temperature drop when he delidded the 7000 chip....you won't see that type of improvement if the problem is just too much power draw like with Intel chips. AMD's much lower overall power consumption also allows a wider range of coolers and won't force you into bigger liquid cooling.
I think delidding is pretty difficult for the average user and not something most people are willing to do so I don't see that as a practical solution for most people. And, as I pointed out, when looking at average temps, not peaks, these 2 CPUs are similar so I don't see how AMD is going to be easier to cool than Intel, at least for these 2 CPUs. PS - you do know that AMD's recommendation for 7000 series is an AIO.

Speaking of derbauer, he has a good video on using power limits with both 13900K and 7950X. Limiting to 90W by using Eco mode, you lose very little FPS in games. This is far easier than delidding and will keep temps down and performance up.
 

NeoMorpheus

Posts: 1,502   +3,249
??

You can go into the bios on the Zen 4 and also reduce the power limits there is no need to delid
About the JayHalfAPenny video, it reminds me how it was a kind of "common" practice for modders to lap the IHS, since they were never really perfectly flat, hence not making good contact with the heatsink.
He pretty much did the same thing, because shaving 1 mm shouldn't create a 10C drop just based on that alone.
 

m3tavision

Posts: 1,118   +951
Techpowerup has a more positive view towards Intel 13900K. It's a bit faster than AMD 7700X but I don't think it's worth the extra heat and power consumption. Not to mention, throttling will reduce the performance that's been shown in these reviews. Techpowerup recorded 117C temperature max in their tests with power limits removed and 90s in gaming. It's 🔥 🔥 🥵

Again, I think the argument is way more simple than that...? LGA1700 or AM5..?
I understand history quite well. And here's a little fact for you. I keep my mobos for close to 5 years and sometimes longer. If you buy a 7950 or a Core i9 that CPU will last you until you need to replace your mobo in 5 years.

The thing is thinking that you'll buy a less expensive CPU today and upgrade in 2 or 3 years is blowing money. You'll spend $400 today and $400 when you upgrade when you could have just spent $700 or maybe less, and had the best performance you can get.

A GPU upgrade is more likely and more meaningful and that can be done with existing mobos and new ones. So, CPU upgrades are of little value to me.

LOL... that is such a flawed logic and illustrates (again) you have not learned from the AM4's past. Secondly, you just don't build a computer, you build it for a use....

So what does a +$300 more 7950 get you over 7700x... as a Gamer? And to your point: " You'll spend $400 today and $400 when you upgrade when you could have just spent $700 or maybe less, and had the best performance you can get. -quoting You"


That is flawed logic^, because a 7950 can't compete with later Gen AMD CPUs. (Coincidentally, 3 years later if you had, you will always be able to sell your 7950x for way more than a 13900k, because the AM5 platform will still be going strong.)

But to you "quoted point"....
Just like the zen1-zen2-zen3 progressions such as the R9 3950x doesn't compete with the 5800X3d... which $250 cheaper.

So logically and for the same price, YOU CAN HAVE a 7700x now and 3-4 years later buy a much, much, much faster 8700X3d... (that the 7950 could only hope to compete with) while only encoring a $100 cost..

Arguably, that is why you spend that EXTRA +$money upfront on the motherboard & future proofing your money & build... so you have the unlimited ability to upgrade to whatever CPU or GPU you want over the next 5 years+... you are protecting your investment.


Once again, just like those who bought a 1700x 6 years who could then upgrade to a 12 core 3900x, (who then could sell that Or re-use in another machine) and upgrade top a 5800X3d, over the coarse of 6 years using same mobo... easy & cheap and staying up with the competition.


Understand, 13Gen iNTEL and LGA1700 is going away in 7 months. too much koolaid can make you blind...
 

waclark

Posts: 799   +499
Again, I think the argument is way more simple than that...? LGA1700 or AM5..?


LOL... that is such a flawed logic and illustrates (again) you have not learned from the AM4's past. Secondly, you just don't build a computer, you build it for a use....

So what does a +$300 more 7950 get you over 7700x... as a Gamer? And to your point: " You'll spend $400 today and $400 when you upgrade when you could have just spent $700 or maybe less, and had the best performance you can get. -quoting You"
The 7950 will get me to new games in a couple of years when the 7700 needs to be upgraded.
That is flawed logic^, because a 7950 can't compete with later Gen AMD CPUs. (Coincidentally, 3 years later if you had, you will always be able to sell your 7950x for way more than a 13900k, because the AM5 platform will still be going strong.)

But to you "quoted point"....
Just like the zen1-zen2-zen3 progressions such as the R9 3950x doesn't compete with the 5800X3d... which $250 cheaper.

So logically and for the same price, YOU CAN HAVE a 7700x now and 3-4 years later buy a much, much, much faster 8700X3d... (that the 7950 could only hope to compete with) while only encoring a $100 cost..
Sorry, that dog won't hunt. By the time you sell your used CPU you won't get much for it. The upgrade will cost you more than $100. High end CPUs from previous generations can and do compete with mid-range CPUs of future generations. In fact the 5800x3d is competing just fine against the 7700x in gaming. You would be better off just building a 5800x3d machine, use your old DDR4 and mobo and with the money you save, you can upgrade the mobo and memory in a couple of years and then get the CPU upgrade as well.
Arguably, that is why you spend that EXTRA +$money upfront on the motherboard & future proofing your money & build... so you have the unlimited ability to upgrade to whatever CPU or GPU you want over the next 5 years+... you are protecting your investment.


Once again, just like those who bought a 1700x 6 years who could then upgrade to a 12 core 3900x, (who then could sell that Or re-use in another machine) and upgrade top a 5800X3d, over the coarse of 6 years using same mobo... easy & cheap and staying up with the competition.


Understand, 13Gen iNTEL and LGA1700 is going away in 7 months. too much koolaid can make you blind...
I'd rather invest the money in a good CPU and GPU and by the time I need to upgrade I'll be getting a new mobo anyway since I'll want the latest and fastest RAM, Storage and Networking. And yeah, that 5800x3d will really perform with a PCie3 GPU and storage. That's why you don't keep your mobo for 6 years and upgrade the CPU, it will be handicapped by the other components in the system.
 

brucek

Posts: 1,353   +2,035
For a long time, we've often seen CPU reviews contain measurements for the stock version of the CPU, and then also for the reviewer's overclock.

The rationale in the old reviews for including inferior stock results, even in cases where modest overclocks were near-guaranteed, had no downside, and could be had with a couple minutes of BIOS changes, was that many consumers would still end up running at stock anyway.

This strikes me as the first time we're seeing instead from many reviewers the stock version and a power-limited version, although different reviewers used different limits. It's an interesting change if you think about it, and also what it will mean for pre-builts from this generation.

Does the old assumption that many units will run at stock hold? Or is Intel maybe expecting system vendors to ship with the power limited sweet spot as the default setting with the unlimited version as a turbo settings?

For the less knowledgeable out there, but still willing to say purchase the top of the line from say Alienware, will they understand what they're getting and what the options are?

I'm curious to see how this plays out.
 

Srhnd

Posts: 22   +32
Lol both Ryzen 7000 and Intel 13000 only ended up showing that for gaming and moderate productivity tasks, considering money spent on platform as whole and power consumption, 5800x3d is the ultimate bang for buck. It gives 90+% of the gaming performance of these newer chips easily.

I would love to see a CPU review of 13900k, 13600k, 7950x, 7600x, 12900k and 5800x3d with 4080 and especially the eventual 4070 (or AMD equivalents) which will be used more often by the masses than this behemoth 4090.
 
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m3tavision

Posts: 1,118   +951
The 7950 will get me to new games in a couple of years when the 7700 needs to be upgraded.

Sorry, that dog won't hunt. By the time you sell your used CPU you won't get much for it. The upgrade will cost you more than $100. High end CPUs from previous generations can and do compete with mid-range CPUs of future generations. In fact the 5800x3d is competing just fine against the 7700x in gaming. You would be better off just building a 5800x3d machine, use your old DDR4 and mobo and with the money you save, you can upgrade the mobo and memory in a couple of years and then get the CPU upgrade as well.

I'd rather invest the money in a good CPU and GPU and by the time I need to upgrade I'll be getting a new mobo anyway since I'll want the latest and fastest RAM, Storage and Networking. And yeah, that 5800x3d will really perform with a PCie3 GPU and storage. That's why you don't keep your mobo for 6 years and upgrade the CPU, it will be handicapped by the other components in the system.


See... you argument breaks down and now trying to suggest that a 7950 gets you to new games.... (that the new 7700 can't play?)

LULZ^
(what does that even mean, when I just showed and illustrated to you the past AM4 generations. (ie zen2 3900 12-core vs zen3 5800X3D 8-core), that exact reference you are trying to dismiss.)


Once again, you do NOT have to sell your CPU, for my argument to be valid ($400 now, $400 later), I was only mocking you further by making an additional point... that selling a 7700x will be much easier and worth more than selling a 13600k in 3 years... because AM5 will still be around, while the 13600k will be worthless, because who will be building an outdated LGA1700 rig with used parts in 3 years..?) SO, Your suggestion of building an AM4 5800X3d (or iNTEL) rig now and in a few year just build a whole new computer (mobo, memory, CPU) is freaking laughable...

You have to be trolling at this point... why waste all that money^ ?


To your last paragraph, BECAUSE the AM4 board is outdated....

So why start your build with EOL/outdated hardware..? In the future there will be no CPUs, no new faster SSDs, no new anything for AM4/LGA17... because you are stuck with old technology. That is why buying an AM5 mobo, you are ready for all the future SSDs and GPUs and CPUs.


I have been building computers for over 30 years now.... I have never replaced a mobo.
 
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takaozo

Posts: 521   +820
Some people like me do not upgrade that often. And when they do an overhaul is required. Why fix it if it ain't broken, like my old i7 4790, served me for many years. When I upgraded to Zen3+B550, I wanted to have 48-165 fps at 1440p for next 2-3 years in the games I play. And for me a performance in range 3060ti-3070ti (Rx6700-6800XT) it's good enough.
Now I wait for AMD to launch next gen cards and see if I will buy new or used.
This Rtx 2060 it's weak some times so it got to move away.
I'm not after best of the best, because long time ago I realized that no matter how often I upgrade in 6 months or less something new will come.
I'm not planning to spend my hard earned money to keep up with the industry.
Once 5-6 years an complete overhaul it's got to do the job and most important not to break the bank.
When I decided to go with AM4 and Zen3 I knew that Zen4 will be expensive, the whole system.
I know I'm a cheap bastard but there are more important things in life beside gaming. This is a 1-2 hours a day hobby.
 

waclark

Posts: 799   +499
See... you argument breaks down and now trying to suggest that a 7950 gets you to new games.... (that the new 7700 can't play?)

LULZ^
(what does that even mean, when I just showed and illustrated to you the past AM4 generations. (ie zen2 3900 12-core vs zen3 5800X3D 8-core), that exact reference you are trying to dismiss.)
You just destroyed your argument. Why then would you ever need to upgrade if the 7700 will always be able to play any game? Why would you need a faster CPU?

Once again, you do NOT have to sell your CPU, for my argument to be valid ($400 now, $400 later), I was only mocking you further by making an additional point... that selling a 7700x will be much easier and worth more than selling a 13600k in 3 years... because AM5 will still be around, while the 13600k will be worthless, because who will be building an outdated LGA1700 rig with used parts in 3 years..?) SO, Your suggestion of building an AM4 5800X3d (or iNTEL) rig now and in a few year just build a whole new computer (mobo, memory, CPU) is freaking laughable...
No one will buy a 7700 in 5 years, that is laughable.
You have to be trolling at this point... why waste all that money^ ?


To your last paragraph, BECAUSE the AM4 board is outdated....

So why start your build with EOL/outdated hardware..? In the future there will be no CPUs, no new faster SSDs, no new anything for AM4/LGA17... because you are stuck with old technology. That is why buying an AM5 mobo, you are ready for all the future SSDs and GPUs and CPUs.
The point is, you can build a very good gaming machine, right now, with a 5850x3d using RAM you likely already have along with any storage and do it for less cost. You would probably save enough to buy a new mobo in 3-5 years. Or invest in a better GPU.
I have been building computers for over 30 years now.... I have never replaced a mobo.
You're using 30 yr old mobo? We can disagree, but don't resort to lying. You're about to replace whatever mobo you have now with a new one for the Zen4. And in 5 years, if you're still building PCs you'll likely change it again.