Intel's 13th-generation Raptor Lake CPUs reportedly won't ditch DDR4

Daniel Sims

Daniel Sims

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Why it matters: According to reports from Moore's Law is Dead, users who choose to stick with DDR4 RAM for their fresh Alder Lake processors might be able to keep it even if they choose to upgrade to its successor whenever they come around. If true, this could help a lot of people save money until DDR5 is more affordable.

Intel's recently released 12th-generation CPUs are the first to support DDR5 RAM, but Intel obviously didn't drop support for DDR4 right away. The earliest DDR5 RAM sticks coming out now are expensive and hard to obtain. They also have high CAS latency.

Some users seem to have started worrying that Intel's eventual 13th generation CPUs would switch to supporting DDR5 exclusively, but that might not be the case according to Moore's Law is Dead. If what he says is true, users who install 12-generation processors on DDR4 motherboards will be able to upgrade to 13th-generation processors on those same motherboards.

Intel continuing to support DDR4 RAM alongside DDR5 for another generation would fall in line with what it did during the transition from DDR3 to DDR4. Intel started supporting DDR4 for desktop processors with its sixth generation but maintained support for DDR3 through those and the seventh generation processors. It only finally dropped DDR3 RAM from desktops with the eight generation.

Rumors earlier this year suggested 13th-generation Raptor Lake CPUs might arrive sometime next year. At least one analyst predicts that DDR5 will start pulling ahead of DDR4 in terms of market share in 2023, and become the standard through 2024 and 2025.

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https://www.techspot.com/news/92124-intel-13th-generation-raptor-lake-cpus-reportedly-wont.html

 
So if you buy Intel 12xxx you can upgrade your CPU next year in the same socket. But if you buy the Zen 3D or whatever they are calling the 5000 series refresh you won’t be able to?

Well well well, how the turn tables!
 
Only for a few people. People buying Zen 3+ 3D 3Musketeers likely already have an AM4 Mobo and have saved quite a bit of money over the past few years reusing those Mobos. The money saved has already happened.

And you can tableturn the same for anyone who bought Rocket Lake or who will buy Raptor Lake. One and done. The situation really isn't ideal for anyone, AMD just broke it in favor of the consumer for a few years to claw back market share, which it did. Pretty good idea from a business perspective but I don't expect to see it again as it's not necessary.
 
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Lew Zealand said:
Only for a few people. People buying Zen 3+ 3D 3Musketeers likely already have an AM4 Mobo and have saved quite a bit of money over the past few years reusing those Mobos. The money saved has already happened.

And you can tableturn the same for anyone who bought Rocket Lake or who will buy Raptor Lake. One and done. The situation really isn't ideal for anyone, AMD just broke it in favor of the consumer for a few years to claw back market share, which it did. Pretty good idea from a business perspective but I don't expect to see it again as it's not necessary.
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They always forget AMD didn't want Zen 3 on 400 series boards. They live in this land where they think AMD has lower prices to make customers happy. And they want customers they desperately need to hold onto motherboards for 3+ years. It's crazy. We've seen AMD jack prices all the time. People just don't notice or forget about.

Like you said, it's for market share where every sale is a positive. You also never had the need to upgrade at the same rate as AMD, because Intel chip performance lasted longer. Better chipsets too. There hasn't been back and forth competition for YEARS. Only with Zen 3 and ADL will that be tested.
 
The higher frequencies mean the actual latency is roughly the same as a CL16 or CL18 DDR4 stick right? Like for example DDR5 6400 that's CL 32 would have the same latency as DDR4 3200MHz CL16
 
Lew Zealand said:
Only for a few people. People buying Zen 3+ 3D 3Musketeers likely already have an AM4 Mobo and have saved quite a bit of money over the past few years reusing those Mobos. The money saved has already happened.

And you can tableturn the same for anyone who bought Rocket Lake or who will buy Raptor Lake. One and done. The situation really isn't ideal for anyone, AMD just broke it in favor of the consumer for a few years to claw back market share, which it did. Pretty good idea from a business perspective but I don't expect to see it again as it's not necessary.
Click to expand...
It was always for a few people. Currently 5000 series CPUs don’t work in B350 or X370 boards for the most part. Meaning the best these people could upgrade to was the 3000 series. And I’m sorry but if you buy a CPU and just 2 years later it needs upgrading, you bought the wrong CPU in the first place! It’s also dreadful value, sure you save on the motherboard but you’ve purchased 2 CPUs in as many years!

Also, if you don’t get a new motherboard you don’t get new features, ports etc and half the reason I have ever updated my CPU was because I need new connectivity and features!

Don’t get me wrong, I think socket compatibility is good, especially when it comes to getting these parts second hand. But really if you’re buying a second CPU for the same motherboard within 2-3 years then you’re doing it wrong.
 
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Sausagemeat said:
It was always for a few people. Currently 5000 series CPUs don’t work in B350 or X370 boards for the most part. Meaning the best these people could upgrade to was the 3000 series. And I’m sorry but if you buy a CPU and just 2 years later it needs upgrading, you bought the wrong CPU in the first place! It’s also dreadful value, sure you save on the motherboard but you’ve purchased 2 CPUs in as many years!

Also, if you don’t get a new motherboard you don’t get new features, ports etc and half the reason I have ever updated my CPU was because I need new connectivity and features!

Don’t get me wrong, I think socket compatibility is good, especially when it comes to getting these parts second hand. But really if you’re buying a second CPU for the same motherboard within 2-3 years then you’re doing it wrong.
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Totally agree.. I wonder what the numbers are on people that actually upgrade CPUs on motherboards vs purchase new motherboards. My guess is it's overwhelmingly the latter with only enthusiasts choosing the former.

For myself, I try to buy the best PC I can afford at the time, and keep it for 5+ years (my 5960x is still going strong after 7+ years)... Even if new Intel CPUs were compatible with my motherboard (of course they aren't), I'd want a new one anyways as I want the new features :)
 
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Squid Surprise said:
Totally agree.. I wonder what the numbers are on people that actually upgrade CPUs on motherboards vs purchase new motherboards. My guess is it's overwhelmingly the latter with only enthusiasts choosing the former.

For myself, I try to buy the best PC I can afford at the time, and keep it for 5+ years (my 5960x is still going strong after 7+ years)... Even if new Intel CPUs were compatible with my motherboard (of course they aren't), I'd want a new one anyways as I want the new features :)
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Over the years I’ve averaged more than one motherboard per CPU I’ve owned as in the past I’ve upgraded and replaced motherboards for existing CPUs (I currently have 2 AM3 boards in my cupboard and only one CPU for them - the first board exhibited VRM throttling so I upgraded it). I wouldn’t dream of reusing an old board for a new CPU though.

There are huge problems with it aswell, if you buy a newer CPU and your board hasn’t been updated to support it you have to send off for a temporary CPU from AMD. This is a horrendous user experience. And as more and more products release the waters get muddier and muddier. I can understand why Intel keep changing the socket up, that way it’s much simpler and consumers will be far less likely to fit two parts together and find them not working.
 
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While that‘s welcome news, what‘s the point of a one gen upgrade unless there are very substantial changes (better node, much higher performance)?
 
Sausagemeat said:
Over the years I’ve averaged more than one motherboard per CPU I’ve owned as in the past I’ve upgraded and replaced motherboards for existing CPUs (I currently have 2 AM3 boards in my cupboard and only one CPU for them - the first board exhibited VRM throttling so I upgraded it). I wouldn’t dream of reusing an old board for a new CPU though.

There are huge problems with it aswell, if you buy a newer CPU and your board hasn’t been updated to support it you have to send off for a temporary CPU from AMD. This is a horrendous user experience. And as more and more products release the waters get muddier and muddier. I can understand why Intel keep changing the socket up, that way it’s much simpler and consumers will be far less likely to fit two parts together and find them not working.
Click to expand...

Funny as I've averaged the reverse, though I'm newer to the PC building scene.

B350 initially had an R3 1200 and eventually got an R5 1600AF 2+ years later. Started low as it was my first ever build (keep the $ risk of BOOM! low) but kid eventually needed more than 4 threads for a few games. 12t will do for kid until it dies.

B360 started with i5 8400 and just recently got an i7 9700 after 3+ years. More cores and MHz is useful for video conversion. This was a less necessary upgrade but at $224, I had earmarked the $ for when the price dropped under $240. This is ready for a GPU upgrade in 2028+ when the prices finally come down.

B450 started with the above castoff R3 1200 but that was again clearly bottlenecking the 5600XT in Horizon Zero Dawn. So picked up an R5 2600 and no bottlenecks in anything. Again, this will be good enough for the other kid until something in the system dies.
 
Lew Zealand said:
Funny as I've averaged the reverse, though I'm newer to the PC building scene.

B350 initially had an R3 1200 and eventually got an R5 1600AF 2+ years later. Started low as it was my first ever build (keep the $ risk of BOOM! low) but kid eventually needed more than 4 threads for a few games. 12t will do for kid until it dies.

B360 started with i5 8400 and just recently got an i7 9700 after 3+ years. More cores and MHz is useful for video conversion. This was a less necessary upgrade but at $224, I had earmarked the $ for when the price dropped under $240. This is ready for a GPU upgrade in 2028+ when the prices finally come down.

B450 started with the above castoff R3 1200 but that was again clearly bottlenecking the 5600XT in Horizon Zero Dawn. So picked up an R5 2600 and no bottlenecks in anything. Again, this will be good enough for the other kid until something in the system dies.
Click to expand...
Eesh you’ve spent a lot more than I have! My experience is that there is a lot more to go wrong on a mobo, dink the wrong part with a screwdriver or short it in the wrong place and it’s game over. CPUs on the other hand are rock solid, I’ve never had one fail on me, even back in my younger days when I was pumping as many volts as I could into them and using desk fans to cool it down.

My first 970FX board cost £43, was hilariously poor and the naked VRM heating up throttled my FX6300 at stock if you had a graphics card in the system warming everything up. Obviously it had to go. Of course I did attempt to buy heatsinks from eBay to add to the VRM with little success. I ended up with an Asrock 990FX K1ller.

Going back before that I was given a pre built Pentium 4 system when I was 17 by my parents. I upgraded every component in it bar the CPU, including the motherboard to an Asus P4C800 E Deluxe lol, it was warm brown in colour with blue accents. The original board was some Foxconn junk that didn’t even have an onboard sound controller and had a much slower FSB, which was irrelevant on the competing and far superior Athlon64 as they had moved the memory controller onto the CPU. I believe the P4 may have been the last Intel line with a proper northbridge but I’m not sure.
 
Well I needed 3 systems so that's simply the amount needed to spend. Current "waste" is:
$99 for R3 1200
$180 for i5-8400

Amortized over 3 years of use is $47 each per year. Not ideal but not really very much.

The 1200 probably doesn't get a use again as it's not enough any more but the 8400 is still a good CPU and I should give it to someone with a CL i3 or Pentium as its probably not worth reselling.
 
Sausagemeat said:
My first 970FX board cost £43, was hilariously poor and the naked VRM heating up throttled my FX6300 at stock if you had a graphics card in the system warming everything up. Obviously it had to go. Of course I did attempt to buy heatsinks from eBay to add to the VRM with little success. I ended up with an Asrock 990FX K1ller.
Click to expand...

I completely lucked out on the first build as I was ignorant and just bought the cheapest B350 available at the time. Turns out it was an MSI board with heatsinks on the VRMs. Very lucky, could have been a naked VRM Gigabyte or ASRock board. Dodged a bullet there.
 
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pcnthuziast said:
3600 cas 16 will be the sweet spot overall for a couple more years.
Click to expand...

No it won't, since Alder Lake performs better with DDR5 and Zen 4 will use DDR5 too
Just because DDR4 is supported does not mean it's the best way to go

DDR5 is already at 7000-8000 now
 
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