Judge says ATF cannot decide when a piece of 3D-printed plastic legally becomes a firearm

midian182

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What just happened? A Texas federal judge has declared key sections of the ATF's 2022 "ghost gun" rule unconstitutional. The regulations expanded the definitions of "firearm" and "frame or receiver" to cover certain weapon kits and partially complete components, requiring sellers to obtain federal licenses, add serial numbers, retain sales records, and conduct background checks.

The permanent injunction blocks enforcement of those provisions against Defense Distributed and current or future members of the Second Amendment Foundation. It covers the company's M1911 80% frames, G80 build kit, unfinished receiver, and grip module.

The decision has plenty of implications for 3D-printed parts. The rule says a printing, forging, casting, extrusion, or unmachined body can become a regulated frame or receiver once it is "clearly identifiable" as an unfinished firearm component.

That threshold formed the basis of Judge Reed O'Connor's Fifth Amendment ruling. The ATF weighs eight nonexclusive factors, including time, ease, expertise, equipment, expense, parts availability, scope, and feasibility, to determine whether an item can "readily" be completed.

O'Connor said the rule fails to establish when a piece of metal or plastic crosses the line into becoming a firearm. It leaves people guessing whether a printed or machined part is regulated while giving the ATF too much enforcement discretion. He ruled that the definitions are void for vagueness under the Fifth Amendment's Due Process Clause.

The judge also found that the restrictions violate the Second Amendment by limiting access to components needed to build or repair personal firearms. The government cited colonial laws requiring gun barrels to undergo safety testing and rules governing the storage and transportation of gunpowder.

O'Connor rejected those comparisons because they addressed accidental explosions and defective products, while the ATF rule is intended to help police trace firearms and prevent prohibited people from obtaining them. He wrote that the regulation "contradicts the actual historical tradition of personal gunsmithing," adding that privately making firearms was common in early America.

The Supreme Court upheld the same rule in a 7-2 decision last year, finding that the Gun Control Act allowed the ATF to regulate some easily completed kits and unfinished receivers. However, that ruling considered the agency's statutory authority, not the constitutional questions decided by O'Connor.

The ATF says people may still make detectable firearms for personal use with a 3D printer or other tools and generally need not serialize them unless manufacturing guns as a business. The agency says approximately 45,240 suspected privately made firearms were recovered from potential crime scenes between 2016 and 2021.

Defense Distributed's legal battle over 3D-printed firearms stretches back years. In 2018, a Justice Department settlement allowed the company to publish its gun blueprints online, but a federal judge declared the deal illegal the following year. More recently, researchers have investigated whether printer toolmarks could help trace 3D-printed guns.

The latest decision doesn't overturn the ATF rule nationwide, but it protects Defense Distributed, SAF, and current or future SAF members. An appeal is expected.

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Here is a thought, maybe if we gave people health care and took me tak health issues seriously we would have less fun violence. Perhaps the solution to the gun problem is creating a healthy, low stress society. Not mass surveillance and destroying the usefulness of legitimate tools because *sometimes* *some people* *might* do something bad.

And does anyone remember when 2D printer first started to become a thing for the average consumer and you had to put together a kit with off the shelf parts? Are we then going to ban angle iron, stepper motors, microcontrollers and open source aoftware because people might want to build a 3D printer that doesn't have someone watching you? Oh. I should stop giving people ideas. building an unregulated 3D printer becoming a felony is a real possibility.

I absolutely will print gun shaped phallus's just to throw a security flag and make some agent do a review if they start monitoring 3D printers. "This guy is just printing hundreds of dicks!"
 
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- Why? This is fantastic.

"An armed populace is a polite populace"

"The Tree of Liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of tyrants and patriots"

"Political power grows from the barrel of a gun"

Could use a little of all of that right now.

Nah that crowd are all just larpers as we’ve seen the last couple of years.
 
Here is a thought, maybe if we gave people health care and took me tak health issues seriously we would have less fun violence. Perhaps the solution to the gun problem is creating a healthy, low stress society. Not mass surveillance and destroying the usefulness of legitimate tools because *sometimes* *some people* *might* do something bad.

And does anyone remember when 2D printer first started to become a thing for the average consumer and you had to put together a kit with off the shelf parts? Are we then going to ban angle iron, stepper motors, microcontrollers and open source aoftware because people might want to build a 3D printer that doesn't have someone watching you? Oh. I should stop giving people ideas. building an unregulated 3D printer becoming a felony is a real possibility.

I absolutely will print gun shaped phallus's just to throw a security flag and make some agent do a review if they start monitoring 3D printers. "This guy is just printing hundreds of dicks!"
And there it is. Always have to bring it back to "muh health care, muh mental".

For the well behaved parts of society, America is almost as safe as the vaulted western Europe. It is a handful of slivers of society that can't stop filling each other with lead.

Here's an idea: stop trying to appease the bottom 2 percent of society that will never behave.
Then I’m sure they can’t decide when pseudoephedrine legally becomes meth.
Show me where in the constitution you have a right to pseudoephedrine.
 
And there it is. Always have to bring it back to "muh health care, muh mental".

For the well behaved parts of society, America is almost as safe as the vaulted western Europe. It is a handful of slivers of society that can't stop filling each other with lead.

Here's an idea: stop trying to appease the bottom 2 percent of society that will never behave.
Show me where in the constitution you have a right to pseudoephedrine.
Gun violence is a relatively new issue in the US and it seems to go hand and hand with the demonizing of mental illness. I know correlation isn't causation, but whatever we have been doing for the last 40 years isn't working so maybe we should try something else, or should we give it another 40 years because it hasnt had enough time.to work yet?
 
- Why? This is fantastic.

"An armed populace is a polite populace"

"The Tree of Liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of tyrants and patriots"

"Political power grows from the barrel of a gun"

Could use a little of all of that right now.

Let's hope the old ways still mean something in a world where the government can follow your every move and send drones to precisely target you in your home through windows and walls using your ISP wifi router's "home security" system. Sounds insane, but the pieces are there.
 
Let's hope the old ways still mean something in a world where the government can follow your every move and send drones to precisely target you in your home through windows and walls using your ISP wifi router's "home security" system. Sounds insane, but the pieces are there.
AR15 vs M1 Abrams, wonder what will win.
 
AR15 vs M1 Abrams, wonder what will win.
I hate these types of arguments because there are many people in the military who will turn around and shoot their commanding officer if they were given the order to kill American citizens. Soldiers aren't mindless drones. They are people with thoughts, feelings, families and independent political ideologies. The reason people are willing to fight and die in the military is to protect the things they love in the nation they live.

Also, did we learn nothing about drones from the Ukraine war? We are learning the same things ourselves in Iran right now.
 
AR15 vs M1 Abrams, wonder what will win.

Aside from the obvious desertion that would happen, thus crippling the entire effort from the start - having 100M+ armed Americans against any government that they don't like all of the sudden is grounds for a pause, tanks or not. They don't make enough tanks to deal with the sheer amount of people with weaponry here alone. Once in a long while ago my team ran simulations on this for interested parties.

Which is why we have the 2nd Amendment.
 
Aside from the obvious desertion that would happen, thus crippling the entire effort from the start - having 100M+ armed Americans against any government that they don't like all of the sudden is grounds for a pause, tanks or not. They don't make enough tanks to deal with the sheer amount of people with weaponry here alone. Once in a long while ago my team ran simulations on this for interested parties.

Which is why we have the 2nd Amendment.
Tanks also aren't the be-all end-all some people think they are. They typically don't travel more than a few miles from where they are deployed. You don't drive a tank 500 miles, they need to be shipped by boat, rail or plane. Damaging a railway is a lot easier than dealing with a tank. Further, soldiers aren't killing machines that are going to start blowing up American cities. There are also problems of moving tanks around once they are deployed. Tanks are very hard on roads and, oddly enough, roads are very hard on tanks.

Then we have games like war thunder that teach us about all the vulnerabilities on things like tanks and they start to look more like an expensive liability than something that commands a battle field. There also wouldnt be a battle field, it would be urban guerilla warfare
 
I hate these types of arguments because there are many people in the military who will turn around and shoot their commanding officer if they were given the order to kill American citizens. Soldiers aren't mindless drones. They are people with thoughts, feelings, families and independent political ideologies. The reason people are willing to fight and die in the military is to protect the things they love in the nation they live.

Also, did we learn nothing about drones from the Ukraine war? We are learning the same things ourselves in Iran right now.
They’re literally committing war crimes because they’re told to.
 
Aside from the obvious desertion that would happen, thus crippling the entire effort from the start - having 100M+ armed Americans against any government that they don't like all of the sudden is grounds for a pause, tanks or not. They don't make enough tanks to deal with the sheer amount of people with weaponry here alone. Once in a long while ago my team ran simulations on this for interested parties.

Which is why we have the 2nd Amendment.
You’re assuming that desertion would happen and you’re assuming 100millilm would actually do anything. Trump is at what a 27% approval rating, decimating the entire country and robbing people of rights and we haven’t heard a blip from the second amendment looms
 
They’re literally committing war crimes because they’re told to.
The United states never signed the Geneva convention so they're commiting crimes as defined by other nations. And as any good lawyer will tell you, laws are not as rushed and absolute as many would have you believe
 
Here is a thought, maybe if we gave people health care and took me tak health issues seriously we would have less fun violence. Perhaps the solution to the gun problem is creating a healthy, low stress society. Not mass surveillance and destroying the usefulness of legitimate tools because *sometimes* *some people* *might* do something bad.

And does anyone remember when 2D printer first started to become a thing for the average consumer and you had to put together a kit with off the shelf parts? Are we then going to ban angle iron, stepper motors, microcontrollers and open source aoftware because people might want to build a 3D printer that doesn't have someone watching you? Oh. I should stop giving people ideas. building an unregulated 3D printer becoming a felony is a real possibility.

I absolutely will print gun shaped phallus's just to throw a security flag and make some agent do a review if they start monitoring 3D printers. "This guy is just printing hundreds of dicks!"

I could not possibly agree with you more.
 
You’re assuming that desertion would happen and you’re assuming 100millilm would actually do anything. Trump is at what a 27% approval rating, decimating the entire country and robbing people of rights and we haven’t heard a blip from the second amendment looms
In the hypothetical apocalyptic event being described, yes… My assertions would most likely be accurate. Because there would be no other way out.

The reason you aren’t seeing the results you want with Trump right now, is probably because it’s not nearly as bad as you think it is, or what you’re being told.

If it really was as bad as you claim it to be, we would have revolution.
 
The United states never signed the Geneva convention so they're commiting crimes as defined by other nations. And as any good lawyer will tell you, laws are not as rushed and absolute as many would have you believe
Actually it’s the ICC which they pulled out of under George W. Bush while he was committing war crimes.
 
In the hypothetical apocalyptic event being described, yes… My assertions would most likely be accurate. Because there would be no other way out.
You’re fantasy you mean. Even in the civil war the vast majority just sided with the state.
The reason you aren’t seeing the results you want with Trump right now, is probably because it’s not nearly as bad as you think it is, or what you’re being told.
What results? You can see things actively happening are you blind?
If it really was as bad as you claim it to be, we would have revolution.
No because people are *****s and the 2nd amendment doesn’t work. Trump has gerrymandered the hell out of the states that allowed him to and is backed by tech bros who feed the algorithms the electorate get information from. For example people still believe that Trump won the 2020 election despite the overwhelming evidence that he lost. People are scared about sharia law because that’s the talking point put out without realising that the administration is implementing it just under “Christian values” despite the constitution literally saying the church and state should be separate.
 
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