New York hospital replaces 12 nurses with AI, prompting warnings over patient care dangers

Solution: eliminate patents on medication.
Are you insane? Why would ANY firm spend billions to develop a new medication if they couldn't recover those costs? This is off the rails -- you literally want to bring back the Dark Ages. The modern era was driven by Europe's replacement of the old "guild secrets" system with a system of patents, by which there is a strong motivation to not only develop new innovations, but (after a period of 20 years) freely share them with the rest of the world.

There are people who view any form of collective action via taxation as no different to slavery, as they had no choice in the matter. I get their viewpoint, but it's contradicted by everything they benefit from in society, like roads or education.
There is no "collective benefit" to paying the healthcare costs of someone who refused to buy healthcare until they got cancer or diabetes, then demands the rest of society pay his bills through government subsidies and "prior-condition" mandates.
 
That $35 is what consumers pay after insurance pays their share. That is heavily bloated over what other countries pay.

These prices are enforced by copyright/trademark/patent laws. There are generic insulins that are much cheaper and 99.5percent as effective, but good luck getting them in the US, since US endos won't prescribe them. They will only prescribe the newest most effective stuff (that gives them financial kickbacks, but surely that doesn't matter....) this helping to sustain insane prices.

Solution: eliminate patents on medication. A company should not be able to patent and restrict medicine production to increase their profits.
There are people who view any form of collective action via taxation as no different to slavery, as they had no choice in the matter. I get their viewpoint, but it's contradicted by everything they benefit from in society, like roads or education.

Healthcare, unlike houses or cars, is something everyone will get hit by eventually. The laws of supply and demand get heavily twisted because you can't train doctors and nurses on a whim, you need the right people, the right temperament, and years of training. The most responsible people can still get catastrophically sick, or get infections, and so on. Most of these diseases are also very time sensitive, which is the last place you should be thinking of profit motives.

Where he is right is the care. So long as you have money, the us system beats the living another out of everyone else. We wait days for what can take months or years otherwise. There are horror stories of people in Europe and Canada having to wait years only to find out their issue is now terminal.

There's also the indirect effects to consider, a healthier population can work harder and make more. They can take more risks since if their business goes under they don't lose medical coverage. It frees people from the corporate yoke, and more centralized systems can realize huge cost savings on paperwork alone.
Looks like you and I might be the only ones that understand a balance can and must be struck between the extremes of Euro style healthcare and the nutter healthcare currently present in this country…although I do disagree to a degree on removing medication patents. I think it incentivizes the development of newer treatments. Just look at the rapid development and improvement in GLP1 medications. The question is how to balance things without removing the proper incentives.
 
Why do you fail to understand the problem here is Oregon's politicians: greedily lapping up funds provided by other states (including Texas) in exchange for votes from self-interested freeloaders unable to pay their own bills.
I absolutely understand your libertarian position as it's the very reason I had to leave Texas. You could be the poster boy for libertarians like Dan Crenshaw who espouse the exact same rhetoric that Gov. Abbott also agrees with. So I am extremely familiar with your position here, and I am vehemently against it. Also, Oregon is not being greedy. They take the same amount of federal subsidies that most red and blue states take. Where Oregon is different is that they offered State funded insurance exchanges that complete with the ACA which caused the ACA to lower their prices to compete. A very capitalistic maneuver. Competition is king?
 
Are you quite absolutely insane? Why would ANY firm spend billions to develop a new medication if they couldn't recover those costs? Good god, you people are off the rails. You literally want to bring back the Dark Ages,


There is no "collective benefit" to paying the healthcare costs of someone who refused to buy healthcare until they got cancer or diabetes, then demands the rest of society pay his bills through government subsidies and "prior-condition" mandates.
And those who lived near love canal or other superfund sites or are exposed to lead or other in their environment through no active fault of their own? How about genetic diseases that people are born with? Shall we advocate for eugenics next as a reasonable solution for those individuals?

You are literally a Scrooge.

“If they would rather die," said Scrooge, "they had better do it, and decrease the surplus population”

Do you truly believe that people would neglect their own health deliberately? That defies logic. People choose between their power bill and medication all the time, no power in the middle of summer or winter will kill me quickly. Maybe only taking half my medication as ordered will hurt me later, but I’ll live today. See a cardiologist, I fear you lack a heart. I’ll even contribute the tax money to see that you can afford it.

Your time under the oppressive and cruel rule of the USSR has hardened your heart to your fellow man and that saddens me. Truly it does but I wish you well.
 
Also, Oregon is not being greedy. They take the same amount of federal subsidies that most red and blue states take.
Smash and grab robber to the judge: "I wasn't greedy your honor, I didn't take no more than anyone else there did."

Where Oregon is different is that they offered State funded insurance exchanges that complete with the ACA which caused the ACA to lower their prices to compete.
Since the ACA passed, Oregon's pool of insurers dropped from nine to six, and just last year to only four: Kaiser, Moda, Bridgespan, and BC/BS. The rest pulled out of the state to avoid bankruptcy. As for those lowered rates:

"...Remaining insurers are requesting double-digit rate hikes for 2027 coverage. Proposed premium increases are jumping, with Kaiser requesting a 12.2% increase, Regence 15.6%, and Moda up to 22.7%...."
 
Smash and grab robber to the judge: "I wasn't greedy your honor, I didn't take no more than anyone else there did."


Since the ACA passed, Oregon's pool of insurers dropped from nine to six, and just last year to only four: Kaiser, Moda, Bridgespan, and BC/BS. The rest pulled out of the state to avoid bankruptcy. As for those lowered rates:

"...Remaining insurers are requesting double-digit rate hikes for 2027 coverage. Proposed premium increases are jumping, with Kaiser requesting a 12.2% increase, Regence 15.6%, and Moda up to 22.7%...."
I did my homework. That still 5 more choices than I had in Texas. I'm on MODA and even at 22% thats 18k less than I was paying in Texas. There is also more at work in this scenario. There is a Doctor drain in Oregon that is speeding those closures. Oregon is full of old people and the doctors are sick of doing geriatrics. They are moving away and speeding those closures. That's why I chose MODA. It is tied to Oregon Health & Science University (OHSU) which will never close as it'ss the main hospital for the whole city.

Back on point. What is your fix? I at least resolved my situation, regardless of your judgment of it. You've got all the criticisms but no solutions, only judgment of others. Let's hear it?
 
You are literally a Scrooge.
You're mighty free with other people's money. When you spend millions of your own dollars to pay someone else's bills, you can spout sanctimoniously all you wish.

Do you truly believe that people would neglect their own health deliberately? That defies logic.
Exactly. Which is why those 80% of cases that WEREN'T appealed were never required healthcare in the first place. Glad you agree.
 
You're mighty free with other people's money. When you spend millions of your own dollars to pay someone else's bills, you can spout sanctimoniously all you wish.


Exactly. Which is why those 80% of cases that WEREN'T appealed were never required healthcare in the first place. Glad you agree.
Have you ever felt what it is like to be denied a medicine that is saving your life? It's not fun. Being treated like a cash piñata is not a pleasant experience.
 
I did my homework. That still 5 more choices than I had in Texas.
Oops! Hard fail:

"There are hundreds of certified health and medical insurance companies licensed to operate in Texas..."

Hundreds in Texas, and only four in Oregon. That tells you everything right there.

Back on point. What is your fix? I at least resolved my situation, regardless of your judgment of it. You've got all the criticisms but no solutions
I gave you solutions at the start of this debate. Use the economics education you claim to increase supply and lower costs. Tort reform alone would shave 20% of cost off the top, even more than that for medical device and equipment costs. Increase the supply of nurses and doctors through healthcare education reform and far more loans to fund those education costs. Improved automation of the healthcare industry, to reduce labor costs while also improving outcomes. The list goes on all -- and all of it driven by the science of economics, rather than the feel-good virtue signaling of "compassion".
 
Have you ever felt what it is like to be denied a medicine that is saving your life? It's not fun.
Nice try, but by the sheer virtue of you posting here, you haven't been either.

I have, though, however, in my days in the USSR been denied everything from electricity to something as simple as the option to buy a bar of soap, along with something far more precious -- freedom itself. That's socialism for you. You like it so much, why not move to somewhere which still offers it?

Oh, and all those "denied lifesaving medication" stories I've seen are from those demanding their insurer pay for some experimental, unproven medication.
 
You're mighty free with other people's money. When you spend millions of your own dollars to pay someone else's bills, you can spout sanctimoniously all you wish.


Exactly. Which is why those 80% of cases that WEREN'T appealed were never required healthcare in the first place. Glad you agree.
Except we can’t say with any degree of confidence state that the cases that weren’t appealed shouldn’t have been appealed. Which is the second half of the first bullet that you are ignoring. Having spent literal hours on the phone over the span of months fighting with an FSA administrator over having the bill for my first child’s delivery covered as a legitimate healthcare expense just last year, I assure you, appealing these decisions would take more than “5 mins” as you stated elsewhere. And that was for an FSA account, it’s literally my money I’m spending!

I’m white and 30 years old. I have time and knowledge to fight these things. Tell that to geriatrics that may not even realize that they *can* appeal beyond the first or even second “no”. You ignore all evidence and lack any knowledge of the social barriers involved. You need education before **you** can spout sanctimoniously about anything yourself!
 
Nice try, but by the sheer virtue of you posting here, you haven't been either.

I have, though, however, in my days in the USSR been denied everything from electricity to something as simple as the option to buy a bar of soap, along with something far more precious -- freedom itself. That's socialism for you. You like it so much, why not move to somewhere which still offers it?
I am currently being denied "Fiasp" which my body does much better with, but I am on "Lispro" because that's what my insurer gets a deal on. While I was in Texas, they do not ever replace CGM's like the Dexcom G7's when they fail. At least here in Oregon they do replace them. So yes, I have been denied medicine. I was also denied Paxlovid while in the hospital for COVID by my insurer. Thankfully the hospital just gave it too me for free because everyone was dying during the height of COVID and hospitals ignored insurers for a while there. Lastly, you don't know me, yet you assume a lot about me. Have a good day. Done with you.
 
I am currently being denied "Fiasp" which my body does much better with, but I am on "Lispro" because that's what my insurer gets a deal on.
It's nice of you to admit you weren't being denied any "lifesaving medication". You're receiving your insulin, but prefer Fiasp, whose primary benefit is a "more flexible dosing schedules". Despite this, the NIH says this of the two:

"both insulins result in comparable overall long-term HbA₁c reductions and overall safety profile...."

Of course, if you could convince an MD that your life truly did depend upon your receiving Fiasp, you could easily get the medication anyway. But no competent doctor will write you that letter, will they?
 
Datavant having ties to Palantir and a $900k data breach settlement is doing a lot of quiet work in that sentence. Nothing builds trust in an AI healthcare vendor like a fresh privacy scandal.
 
Translation: "don't confuse me with facts; my mind is made up."

European health care is relevant because what you propose would devolve the US gold standard into what Europeans are forced to endure, not to mention flying in the face of what every student learns day one in microeconomics 101.

The fact that you only see two solutions to the problem, one of them good, one of them bad, and no spectrum in between is a problem. It's limiting you, your ability to solve problems, and your ability to communicate with others. America is not Europe and it never will be. All I hear from you are childish excuses for others' behavior... and fear.
 
Datavant having ties to Palantir and a $900k data breach settlement is doing a lot of quiet work in that sentence. Nothing builds trust in an AI healthcare vendor like a fresh privacy scandal.
Oops! Datavant's data breach came when a human employee of theirs unwittingly responded to a phishing email. Nothing builds trust in AI like the ability to eliminate such human incompetency from your workflow process.

The fact that you only see two solutions to the problem, one of them good, one of them bad, and no spectrum in between is a problem.
I named several solutions that would each individually help. Your "spectrum" of accepting limited socialism is like a woman being "just a little bit" pregnant. No matter how small it starts, that fetus grows over time.
 
It's nice of you to admit you weren't being denied any "lifesaving medication". You're receiving your insulin, but prefer Fiasp, whose primary benefit is a "more flexible dosing schedules". Despite this, the NIH says this of the two:

"both insulins result in comparable overall long-term HbA₁c reductions and overall safety profile...."

Of course, if you could convince an MD that your life truly did depend upon your receiving Fiasp, you could easily get the medication anyway. But no competent doctor will write you that letter, will they?
My Doctor did submit an exception and was denied. Again, making assumptions.
 
Get rid of Obamacare. Nurses work hard but there are a lot of bad nurses. If you ever has one that says I will keep an eye on it and leaves the room you know you have a bad one
 
Oops! Datavant's data breach came when a human employee of theirs unwittingly responded to a phishing email. Nothing builds trust in AI like the ability to eliminate such human incompetency from your workflow process.


I named several solutions that would each individually help. Your "spectrum" of accepting limited socialism is like a woman being "just a little bit" pregnant. No matter how small it starts, that fetus grows over time.
Since you have been so fond of accusing me of logical fallacies…have you heard of the slippery slope fallacy?
 
I can say very honestly, I do not want to die because some incompetent somebody was kept despite her/his poor records for too long. Would I prefer AI over someone like this? Yes, that is how much I value my life (and think that the lives of others should mean as much). But there is always that hope coming form a high executive's mind: can I replace more of them? Can I save even more? In fact, how many I can fire without the service deteriorating significantly.
I believe in the mighty power of greed, it destroys all the obstacles and achieves its objectives. I do not want to help them do this. The question is, which is the worse? Keeping people who underperform, or go much further relying on AI so much that eventually one mistake costs not one but multiple lives.
 
My Doctor did submit an exception and was denied. Again, making assumptions.
Facts are not assumptions. Had your doctor unequivocally stated your health was compromised without the medication, your exception would have been approved. But he did not do so-- for the simple reason that both forms are insulin, and every medical body on the planet says both are equivalent in function and safety. Requiring your insurer to pay far more because you "find it easier to follow the approved dosing schedule" isn't a valid reason.

Utlimately, nothing is stopping you from purchasing your medication yourself. And, since this was a pre-existing condition, that would be the moral course of action as well.
 
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