Nvidia is reportedly partnering with TSMC for 7nm Ampere production next year

Polycount

Posts: 2,559   +553
Staff member
In context: Samsung is Nvidia's current partner for the production of the latter's latest 30-series Ampere GPUs, but as consumers have seen, uncertainty surrounding the former's ability to improve yields has led to a very small product launch. So small, in fact, that retailers have struggled to hold onto any stock at all.

As a result of this production inadequacy, Guru3D reports that Nvidia is already planning to shift much of the workload to TSMC. The change is expected to take effect in 2021, and could signify the long-awaited arrival of 7nm Ampere cards.

The production capacity Nvidia has snagged over at TSMC will be "high volume," which could be good news for consumers that are having a hard time getting their hands on the Green Team's latest products.

We don't know precisely when in 2021 Nvidia is hoping to kick things off with TSMC, nor do we know which products will be developed on its 7nm nodes. Still, we can probably expect more details on both of those fronts in the coming months -- perhaps after the holiday season winds down.

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Evernessince

Posts: 5,419   +6,014
I think they only went with Samsung to increase profits. TSMC's 7nm is quite mature nowadays so I don't know why they wouldn't just suck up the increased charge from TSMC for a better node.
Nvidia was likely trying to leverage moving to samsung to get a better deal. Doesn't look like it's worked given the current status of the 30xx series and their quick move back.

 

brucek

Posts: 529   +615
TechSpot Elite
Did TSMC have capacity for them in Q3/Q4, or had it already been promised to others?

I'm curious as to what extent any of this reflects a surprise/screw up on Samsung's part, vs. what one party or the other had always expected based on already known information or intended plan.

I'm no insider and have no way of knowing for sure, but as a frustrated customer it is smelling more and more to me like Nvidia was flat out behind, was not ready for this generation's volume launch, and created this whole little paper side show launch to create an impression they were "first" to market while the real launch will be next year with TSMC.

All of which leads me to worry what long term support this initial small Samsung batch will enjoy over time - are they really going to stick by it or are they going to try to forget it ever happened, put minimal driver support behind it, etc due to tiny audience once they've cut everything over to TSMC.
 

zamroni111

Posts: 117   +50
I have guessed this earlier. Pushing 8nm non euv to produce 28 billion transistor chip is mega task. Euv wavelength itself is only 10 nm.
What will be interesting to see is the final price of the cards because it seems Samsung foundry gave low price to nvidia
 
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Dimitriid

Posts: 50   +53
Nvidia was likely trying to leverage moving to samsung to get a better deal. Doesn't look like it's worked given the current status of the 30xx series and their quick move back.
The problem is that while they could be in talks with TSMC at this point you gotta expect that large chunks of capacity are taken over by AMD and specially Apple so unless Nvidia pays through the nose, they'll probably have to get to the back of the line so to speak.

This could mean that even if AMD botches it's launch (Which given the pandemic I think it's likely they will imo) they still only need to have decent supply during the first quarter of 2021 to have a potentially huuuge lead on Nvidia.

The sad part is that even if Big Navi isn't as fast as the 3080 (It's close but the teased 3 numbers are not) people are unlikely to just keep waiting 6 to 12 months to see if Nvidia can FINALLY meet demand and would just grab a Big Navi and call it a day.
 

OptimumSlinky

Posts: 246   +430
Nvidia was likely trying to leverage moving to samsung to get a better deal. Doesn't look like it's worked given the current status of the 30xx series and their quick move back.
Exactly. nVidia overestimated its clout, threatened to go to Samsung if TSMC didn't give nVidia the capacity/cost it wanted. TSMC called nVidia's bluff, since between Apple and AMD TSMC has all of the production partners it needs.
 

amghwk

Posts: 797   +573
I think people should relax. These are not the die-for cards, and they are not limited edition too. Let them mass produce the cards again and let the price come down a bit. Nvidia is not going to sit idle losing it's market share.

Corporates feed on consumers' greed.
 
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whateversa

Posts: 10   +8
I think they only went with Samsung to increase profits. TSMC's 7nm is quite mature nowadays so I don't know why they wouldn't just suck up the increased charge from TSMC for a better node.
I heard they left TMSC because of low yields...and that Samsung was the reason that they could have so much better pricing. So I am quite confused about this news of them going back to TSMC.
 

PurpleYoda

Posts: 128   +87
So now we know how they will be able to come up with 3080Ti or Super version of their cards. They wouldn’t be able to do anything as there is only 10% difference between 3090 and 3080. This way they will come up with a “refresh” adding a dew GB of memory in for good measure to better justify the cost and they’re golden ;-)
 

godrilla

Posts: 167   +99
Samsung's 8nm was a place holder for investors, current focus is on ARM buyout occupying cash flow. They have a 7nm TSMC order in the pipeline. This was my prediction since last month.
 

SethNW

Posts: 22   +17
Yeah, that whole attempt at trying to get better deal from TSMC by going with Samsung backfired badly. Now Samsung node just isn't working for them, likely having poor yields and all, so they had to crawl back to TSMC. But because they already had TSMC based design, they don't really need a lot of time to get it out, once deal goes through, hence next year.

Though it will suck for people who bought current stuff in a way, swing better version of your card not even a year after. Though they might also use opportunity to pass opportunity increase cost. Also makes me wonder if 16GB 3070 and 20GB 3080 will wait till 7nm.

Though in whole thing, I still think nVidia didn't mind having lower supply anyway, since they wanted those cards to be more expensive, but they also wanted to have lower prices on paper to get good grace of gamers, but warn more for initial sale before they flood the channel. Except latter might be a problem with Samsung yield. Still if 7nm stuff come as more expensive Super or Ti models, they might get what they initially wanted. To have a cake and eat it at same time.

Hopefully AMD finally does one launch right, nVidia really needs some competition to put them in place.
 

Endymio

Posts: 638   +519
Samsung node just isn't working for them, likely having poor yields and all...Though in whole thing, I still think nVidia didn't mind having lower supply anyway, since they wanted those cards to be more expensive
So you believe NVidia secretly likes having to discard a large number of exorbitantly expensive chips due to poor yields? And that they, rather than scalpers, are raking in the profits from their cards being resold for hundreds of dollars higher than MSRP?

Might I suggest a shave with Occam's Razor?
 

SethNW

Posts: 22   +17
So you believe NVidia secretly likes having to discard a large number of exorbitantly expensive chips due to poor yields? And that they, rather than scalpers, are raking in the profits from their cards being resold for hundreds of dollars higher than MSRP?

Might I suggest a shave with Occam's Razor?
Probably not, but then again, they definitely don't like 2 things, paying more for each die, Samsung deal likely can significantly cheaper, do they definitely we're counting on it still being more profitable. And they really don't like selling cards cheap. But Turing did prove them that pumping up price didn't work well enough, due to unhappiness it caused and I would assume a lot of people did decide to make do with what they have. While sales weren't terrible, I bet they were below expectations for nVidia. Hence why they were forced in lower prices.

Still I can't say they like lower yields that much, but early on with their plan on throttling supply a bit to get more expensive models to sell, it probably wasn't planned to be an issue. Though it might have gone worse than expected.
 

Endymio

Posts: 638   +519
...early on with their plan on throttling supply a bit to get more expensive models to sell, it probably wasn't planned to be an issue. Though it might have gone worse than expected.
What you're alluding to is something every company does for every product, and not just at product launch, but on a continual basis. Reducing supply increases profit per widget, but decreasing overall revenues. There is an extrema on that curve that maximizes total profits, a point that every company seeks to hit. This is a staple of business management textbooks, and not some shadowy campaign NVidia is engaging in. Furthermore, it is -- for very real econo-theoretic reasons -- beneficial to consumers in general. The idea that companies should, for every product, simply turn up the production to full blast, is naive, and, if implemented even partially into legislation, dangerous.
 
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godrilla

Posts: 167   +99
FYI multiple rumors on Nvidia flooding the market the next few months with 3000 series cards source, Redgamingtech and Moors'slawisdead enjoy and watch the show we have been waiting for. Gpu price wars 2020 and beyond!
 

ddg4005

Posts: 433   +111
TechSpot Elite
Huh, it's a good thing I decided to wait (not that I had much choice). I'm sure the batch manufactured on the 7nm node will feature more VRAM and a few tweaks to the silicon resulting in better overclocking.
 
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godrilla

Posts: 167   +99
So you believe NVidia secretly likes having to discard a large number of exorbitantly expensive chips due to poor yields? And that they, rather than scalpers, are raking in the profits from their cards being resold for hundreds of dollars higher than MSRP?

Might I suggest a shave with Occam's Razor?
Mind twist AIB were caught twice scalping. MSI culprit. last week at Ebay and this week via Dell website while not as drastic were selling cards for 20% higher than MSRP!
 
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