Nvidia reaffirms controversial stance against cryptomining with new 'Lite Hash Rate' cards

m3tavision

Posts: 655   +406
Well at least the driver to bypass the limitation didn't make it to miners *before* the cards make it to consumers this time around. So the card scalpers might have to sell to gamers instead of miners, which inherently slows them down and removes a bit of the incentive of individual sales vs some miner buying willing to buy 100k of cards all at once.

But I'm still unconvinced this won't be circumvented like, immediately. And if it's not, we should see if the driver or method used negatively impacts gaming at all because we just don't know what they're doing so even if it's tempting to go ahead and buy, I think at least a few days of cautions for independent reviewers to test this is advisable.


Understand, that "miners" buying nVidia Cards 500 at a time, is the offense.... because nVidia is not selling them directly to the public, but out the back door of their own Company, directly to miners.

Two sets of rules & retail channels... One for Gamers, the other for miners....


Coincidentally, AMD does not sell directly to miners.
 

m3tavision

Posts: 655   +406
The same reason I do no argue with climate change deniers - they are worse they are 100% dishonest. Those guys for 15 years plus claim it was all lies the world was getting warmer - data was being massaged etc etc - I have seen none of them admit they got that wrong-NOT ONE .

Now they claim the same stuff week after week - never addressing the arguments refuting that the main tenant the the primary cause is man - and acceleration is inline with the industrial revolution .

No the world was not warmer in Roman times - it was just very warm in a localised area . I'm not even going to mention all their other silly arguments about volcanoes, planets motions, inclination , sunspots etc - The proof that climate change is man made hit the gold standard in 2019 of 5 Sigma and no loner toiling away with 5 PhDs in applied mathematics is going to overturn that ( they always gravitate to outliers ignore a lot of their work has been dodgy ,and forget about all real Sceptics who are now believers- who they raved about when it suited them )

You most likely don't argue with those people^, because your facts are misguided and laughable. Climate change on earth has been happening for millions of years, before man. We know there has been about 5 Ice Ages with cyclical spikes in CO2 and Tropical climates across the globe, etc..

All without man's interaction. Coincidentally, a single solar flare has more environmental impact of the Earth surface heat, than all of industrial mankind...

Lastly, Co2 is not a pollutant. Heat is not a pollutant... and you are absurd to think that man, can Control Earth's Climate...! What we can do, is clean the seas of all the plastic that India, China and other nations dump into the Oceans..
 

Lounds

Posts: 864   +764
The sooner TSMC expands and creates production facilities in other countries the better. The problem with globalisation is it encourages carbon emissions by having the need to ship every small little part for multiple products, instead of just having the products manufactured closer to customers.
The problem isn't crypto, the problem is production and globalisation of trade in general.
 

fl21289

Posts: 277   +370
You most likely don't argue with those people^, because your facts are misguided and laughable. Climate change on earth has been happening for millions of years, before man. We know there has been about 5 Ice Ages with cyclical spikes in CO2 and Tropical climates across the globe, etc..

All without man's interaction. Coincidentally, a single solar flare has more environmental impact of the Earth surface heat, than all of industrial mankind...

Lastly, Co2 is not a pollutant. Heat is not a pollutant... and you are absurd to think that man, can Control Earth's Climate...! What we can do, is clean the seas of all the plastic that India, China and other nations dump into the Oceans..
I'm still waiting to burn alive like Al Gore said we would around this time now....
 

Markoni35

Posts: 1,129   +455
Crypto needs to be criminalized immediately.
A complete waste of resources.

What's funny, the same CO2 alarmists who wanna kill everyone with a gasoline car, are those who support cryptocurrency, and unlimited immigration into developed countries. Despite both of those activities having an immediate and direct CO2 impact.

If they really believed in their dystopic CO2 fabrication, they certainly wouldn't support crypto.
 

m3tavision

Posts: 655   +406
AMD would first need product to sell, easy not to sell to miners if there's nothing to sell in the first place.

Sorry, if you think that TSMC is not making Navi21 dies.... but newegg and Micro Center sells as many AMD GPUs, than they do nVidia.

The shortage of nVidia card in Gamers hand, are in fact because of Jensen Huang, the CEO of nVidia who decided that selling GA-102 to gamers, is not as lucrative to selling the same die to Small Enterprise business, at Pro card prices.

80% of nVidia's stock is being sold directly to non-gamers. Because nVidia doesn't care about, nor is in the business of Gaming dGPU (see Ampere architecture).
 

Adhmuz

Posts: 2,166   +963
Sorry, if you think that TSMC is not making Navi21 dies.... but newegg and Micro Center sells as many AMD GPUs, than they do nVidia.

The shortage of nVidia card in Gamers hand, are in fact because of Jensen Huang, the CEO of nVidia who decided that selling GA-102 to gamers, is not as lucrative to selling the same die to Small Enterprise business, at Pro card prices.

80% of nVidia's stock is being sold directly to non-gamers. Because nVidia doesn't care about, nor is in the business of Gaming dGPU (see Ampere architecture).
You don't need to appologize for your statement, however I would like some kind of proof to back it up, some actual sales figures would be great. I'm sure TSMC is making dies for AMD, the problem is they are being divided into too many product lines, my assumption is they are mostly going towards the consoles at the moment dues to deals with Sony and Microsoft. So whatever is left over for retail dedicated GPUs is minimal at best and appears to be none existent.
 

m3tavision

Posts: 655   +406
You don't need to appologize for your statement, however I would like some kind of proof to back it up, some actual sales figures would be great. I'm sure TSMC is making dies for AMD, the problem is they are being divided into too many product lines, my assumption is they are mostly going towards the consoles at the moment dues to deals with Sony and Microsoft. So whatever is left over for retail dedicated GPUs is minimal at best and appears to be none existent.

Again, you statements are laughable.

Navi21 is AMD's 4th Generation 7nm dGPU @ TSMC. AMD has been on this node for a very long time. On the other hand, nVidia first dGPU on SAMSUNG 8nm node, is the GA-102... that is MUCH BIGGER and has lower yields than AMD's Navi21 die.

(Nobody cares if you understand this, or why... it's a fact)

Navi21 is made at a different TSMC node, than the PS5/XSX APU, your assumptions are naive and laughable.
 

Adhmuz

Posts: 2,166   +963
Again, you statements are laughable.

Navi21 is AMD's 4th Generation 7nm dGPU @ TSMC. AMD has been on this node for a very long time. On the other hand, nVidia first dGPU on SAMSUNG 8nm node, is the GA-102... that is MUCH BIGGER and has lower yields than AMD's Navi21 die.

(Nobody cares if you understand this, or why... it's a fact)

Navi21 is made at a different TSMC node, than the PS5/XSX APU, your assumptions are naive and laughable.
TSMC's limited production on the 7nm node is the reason why nvidia moved to Samsung's 8nm node in the first place... But yes, you know, lower GA-102 yields from Samsung is 100% related to why TSMC's production is limited for Navi21, the logic and connection there is astonishing!.. Actually nvidia does use the 7nm node as well at TSMC for their A100 accelerator, but let's not get you too confused now, your "facts" are already getting out of hand.

Navi21 is RDNA2, which is the same GPU technology featured in both PS5 and XSX, which are again, both 7nm TSMC node, the CPU in the consoles is Zen 2, also 7nm node. Granted these are 7nm APUs and likely not made on the same wafers as the GPUs and CPUs, they are still the same 7nm node, which is already a limiting factor at TSMC.

I think you are the one who truly doesn't understand why this is an issue and want to make your own misguided assumptions.
 

m3tavision

Posts: 655   +406
TSMC's limited production on the 7nm node is the reason why nvidia moved to Samsung's 8nm node in the first place... But yes, you know, lower GA-102 yields from Samsung is 100% related to why TSMC's production is limited for Navi21, the logic and connection there is astonishing!.. Actually nvidia does use the 7nm node as well at TSMC for their A100 accelerator, but let's not get you too confused now, your "facts" are already getting out of hand.

Navi21 is RDNA2, which is the same GPU technology featured in both PS5 and XSX, which are again, both 7nm TSMC node, the CPU in the consoles is Zen 2, also 7nm node. Granted these are 7nm APUs and likely not made on the same wafers as the GPUs and CPUs, they are still the same 7nm node, which is already a limiting factor at TSMC.

I think you are the one who truly doesn't understand why this is an issue and want to make your own misguided assumptions.

No, nVidia moved to SAMSUNG for GA-102 uArch, because THEY (NVidia) didn't buy TSMC's 7nm node space years in advance, like AMD did.

Secondly, and AGAIN... Navi21 is AMD's 9th dGPU (& 3rd generation) of TSMC's 7nm node.... that is why AMD has better yields than nVidia's 1st generation dGPU on SAMSUNG's node. Surely you understand nVidia's difficulties in moving to a new node, with a new architecture....

Thirdly, the APUs in the new Consoles, are not made at the same facility's, as Navi21. Selling one, does not take away from the other...


Again, you are making assumptions.... and it has become quite laughable.
 

Adhmuz

Posts: 2,166   +963
No, nVidia moved to SAMSUNG for GA-102 uArch, because THEY (NVidia) didn't buy TSMC's 7nm node space years in advance, like AMD did.

Secondly, and AGAIN... Navi21 is AMD's 9th dGPU (& 3rd generation) of TSMC's 7nm node.... that is why AMD has better yields than nVidia's 1st generation dGPU on SAMSUNG's node. Surely you understand nVidia's difficulties in moving to a new node, with a new architecture....

Thirdly, the APUs in the new Consoles, are not made at the same facility's, as Navi21. Selling one, does not take away from the other...


Again, you are making assumptions.... and it has become quite laughable.
I still do not see any correlation to AMDs limited Navi21 dies and Nvidia dies being produced by Samsung, who bloody cares what the yield is for Nvidia's chips at Samsung, you keep bringing this up as if some kind of counter point holy-grail to and argument I never made. It would be like blaming an apple shortage on orange trees having a bad year... This Whole argument you are making is laughable beyond recognition at this point, yet I'm sure you are going to keep trying to find a way to make it relevant. TSMC's die yield for AMD could be perfect, if they aren't producing any, or any substantial quantity it's nearly irrelevant, at least Samsung's production, which may or may not be hampered by poor yields at this point in time, is getting dies out there and cards are trickling out, much faster and more plentiful than AMDs products it would seem. Still no word on any kind of production quantities, or numbers. But please, keep beating that dead horse without any facts that would actually be relevant.

Can you backup your claim that the APUs in the consoles are made at a different facility, finding this information is rather difficult but you seem to already have it available, some kind of evidence to this claim would be fantastic.

Overall there's a whole lot of rumors in regards to TSMC and their 7nm node, but one thing seems to be clear there is a shortage of raw materials and production is hampered due to it.
 

m3tavision

Posts: 655   +406
I still do not see any correlation to AMDs limited Navi21 dies and Nvidia dies being produced by Samsung, who bloody cares what the yield is for Nvidia's chips at Samsung, you keep bringing this up as if some kind of counter point holy-grail to and argument I never made. It would be like blaming an apple shortage on orange trees having a bad year... This Whole argument you are making is laughable beyond recognition at this point, yet I'm sure you are going to keep trying to find a way to make it relevant. TSMC's die yield for AMD could be perfect, if they aren't producing any, or any substantial quantity it's nearly irrelevant, at least Samsung's production, which may or may not be hampered by poor yields at this point in time, is getting dies out there and cards are trickling out, much faster and more plentiful than AMDs products it would seem. Still no word on any kind of production quantities, or numbers. But please, keep beating that dead horse without any facts that would actually be relevant.

Can you backup your claim that the APUs in the consoles are made at a different facility, finding this information is rather difficult but you seem to already have it available, some kind of evidence to this claim would be fantastic.

Overall there's a whole lot of rumors in regards to TSMC and their 7nm node, but one thing seems to be clear there is a shortage of raw materials and production is hampered due to it.

Your very first sentence is just a troll.

I have already told you that you can not keep stating or lying about the production of Navi21 dies. YOU... are the only one saying AMD " aren't producing any, or any substantial quantities" of navi 21 dies. <---

And again, I have to ask you a simple IQ test... if AMD has been on the 7nm TSMC node since Radeon Vii, and now years later.. on a mature node, with even higher yields out of Navi21... , over the difficulties of nVidia with a new node, new uArch and not having the actual capacity (per wafer size @ samsung), to be able to out produce Navi21 dies...

Why would you believe that nVidia can surpass sales of Navi21 w/ larger GA-102..?


Secondly, You make it sound like navi 21 production is being pinched.. and that is simply a joke. You make it sound like their is only one assembly line at TSMC and they can only make one die at a time.... and don't truly understand how a FAB works.

That is your ignorance and mistake and I have pointed out that your ASSUMPTIONS are wrong. I corrected you several times on your assumptions and you keep going back to them.
 
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Adhmuz

Posts: 2,166   +963
Your very first sentence is just a troll.

I have already told you that you can not keep stating or lying about the production of Navi21 dies. YOU... are the only one saying AMD " aren't producing any, or any substantial quantities" of navi 21 dies. <---

And again, I have to ask you a simple IQ test... if AMD has been on the 7nm TSMC node since Radeon Vii, and now years later.. on a mature node, with even higher yields out of Navi21... , over the difficulties of nVidia with a new node, new uArch and not having the actual capacity (per wafer size @ samsung), to be able to out produce Navi21 dies...

Why would you believe that nVidia can surpass sales of Navi21 w/ larger GA-102..?


Secondly, You make it sound like navi 21 production is being pinched.. and that is simply a joke. You make it sound like their is only one assembly line at TSMC and they can only make one die at a time.... and don't truly understand how a FAB works.

That is your ignorance and mistake and I have pointed out that your ASSUMPTIONS are wrong. I corrected you several times on your assumptions and you keep going back to them.
I said what I said and still stand by it as YOU have yet to prove otherwise other than stating the yields are higher, as I previously predicted no less, good for AMD being on the umpteeth round of production on a mature 7nm node at TSMC. Why is it every post about scalping, mining and pallets of GPUs being sold to the highest bidder are they all Nvidia cards, we see countless pictures of miners with row upon row of Nvidia GPUs yet see nothing about AMD cards being bought in mass quantities, yield smield, Samsung is still making more dies regardless out selling AMD. This is why I believe Nvidia can, and is, surpassing Navi21 with a larger GA-102, if you don't see this, that's your problem, but please, keep insulting me, way to stay mature and have a descent conversation. It would be nice if you could counter any of my statements with actual facts and not simply resort to insinuating lack of intelligence, side stepping my arguments then expecting me to cave to your BS.


"AMD's overall market share percentage from last quarter decreased by -0.12%, Intel's market share decreased by -0.5%, and Nvidia's market share increased 0.62%, as indicated in the following chart."

"Overall GPU unit shipments decreased by -0.3% from last quarter, AMD shipments decreased by -1.0%, Intel's shipments decreased by -1.0%, and Nvidia's shipments increased 3.9%."
 
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m3tavision

Posts: 655   +406
lol...
Adhmuz, having a post removed, & editing your post.... won't make you right. I have my original post with a screenshot. (Ultra sorry that facts hurt you, and that you find them insulting...!)

Perhaps, stop spreading less lies...? Truth won't hurt as much....



Your following quote is just a fantasy:

"Why is it every post about scalping, mining and pallets of GPUs being sold to the highest bidder are they all Nvidia cards, we see countless pictures of miners with row upon row of Nvidia GPUs yet see nothing about AMD cards being bought in mass quantities, yield smield, Samsung is still making more dies regardless out selling AMD.

This is why I believe Nvidia can, and is, surpassing Navi21 with a larger GA-102, if you don't see this, that's your problem, but please, keep insulting me, way to stay mature and have a descent conversation."



Those^ are Your words, not mine. (giggles)
Which completely illustrates you didn't read my 4 earlier posts... OR you did and are just trying to dismiss them.... OR are pretending to not understand what die yields are.
 

Adhmuz

Posts: 2,166   +963
Those^ are Your words, not mine. (giggles)
Which completely illustrates you didn't read my 4 earlier posts... OR you did and are just trying to dismiss them.... OR are pretending to not understand what die yields are.
Still on about die yields eh? Going nowhere fast with that.

lol...
Adhmuz, having a post removed, & editing your post.... won't make you right. I have my original post with a screenshot. (Ultra sorry that facts hurt you, and that you find them insulting...!)

Perhaps, stop spreading less lies...? Truth won't hurt as much....
Having what post removed? I didn't contact any of the moderators, just pointed out you were being a douchebag because I wouldn't listen to your nonsense rants. I honestly haven't gone back to read anything in here lately, stopped caring after my last post, time to move on.

I don't need you to think I am right, I don't need your understanding, I really don't need anything from you.

Cheers.
 
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m3tavision

Posts: 655   +406
Still on about die yields eh? Going nowhere fast with that.


Having what post removed? I didn't contact any of the moderators, just pointed out you were being a douchebag because I wouldn't listen to your nonsense rants. I honestly haven't gone back to read anything in here lately, stopped caring after my last post, time to move on.

I don't need you to think I am right, I don't need your understanding, I really don't need anything from you.

Cheers.
No, of coarse not.
You are simple unable to back up your lie... and now are trying to be condescending about it.

It's now noted... that you spew tech-propaganda.