Nvidia's RTX 3090 may have outsold the entire Radeon RX 6000 series combined

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DoomSlayer

Posts: 18   +17
How can many people fail to see through this?
As a person who works in retail. It's clear that the stores are doing this. The AIBs very well know that AMD is more supply constrained as compared to Nvidia. And also that Nvidia has more mind share. So they do the more assured thing to maximise ROI, they purchase a few of the AMD cards every now and then (just to appease AMD and its fans) but hike the prices. And then they buy boat loads of Nvidia cards and price them reasonably, with the AMD cards as contrast. The result is a high turn over of nVidia cards, and thus faster generation of profit. When things settle down, they'll return the 6k card prices back to normal. It's just business acrobatics for them. This is the reason why AMD cards are at MSRP on the AMD website when they are available.

Doesn't really explain why AMD's exclusive partners like Sapphire and Powercolor are kicking AMD in the nuts by doubling the MSRP.
Nvidia would really cream EVGA had EVGA done the same thing LOL.
AMD just doesn't care about gamers anymore, they are more pandering to investors now, which is understandable. Even if AMD lost this battle, they haven't lost the war as AMD has more funding for R&D for next round.
 

duckofdeath

Posts: 448   +586
I am not sure what you are implying here. TSMC is manufacturing ps5 or radeon or whatever but how does it make that a 'con job'. Did they breach agreements they had with AMD? What was it they did that you are saying that they should be 'banned from global trade'?
I very much doubt that AMD, Sony or whatever planned their business to be massively bottlenecked because one manufacturer clearly signed up as much as possible while knowing there was no way they'd be able to deliver. Next year the "new console hype" will be all over and who know what'll happen the the competitiveness of the others. The long term finances of customers not being able to build a solid market share on new products will definitely be affected negatively.
 

HardReset

Posts: 1,240   +898
I very much doubt that AMD, Sony or whatever planned their business to be massively bottlenecked because one manufacturer clearly signed up as much as possible while knowing there was no way they'd be able to deliver. Next year the "new console hype" will be all over and who know what'll happen the the competitiveness of the others. The long term finances of customers not being able to build a solid market share on new products will definitely be affected negatively.
AMD didn't plan but they really didn't have any choice because GlobalFoundries cancelled 7nm manufacturing tech. AMD wouldn't have any sort of 7nm shortage if GF would have filled their part. TBH I'm impressed AMD has survived this well so far.
 

NightAntilli

Posts: 762   +964
AMD just doesn't care about gamers anymore
If that was true they would have released on CPUs and ditched GPUs entirely. Instead, they tried their best to offer high end options after many years. That doesn't sound like a company not caring about selling products to gamers. And yes, I say it like that, because no company actually cares about gamers. Not AMD, and especially not nVidia.
 

zamroni111

Posts: 200   +138
Surely.
Per transistor, Zen3 are much more profitable than rdna2, so amd prefers to use its tsmc capacity to produce Zen3.

$799 5950x only needs around 11 billions transistors vs $999 6900xt that needs 26 billion transistors+16 GB gddr + fans etc.

Amd launches rdna2 only to screw nvidia
 

Eldritch

Posts: 341   +524
AMD didn't plan but they really didn't have any choice because GlobalFoundries cancelled 7nm manufacturing tech. AMD wouldn't have any sort of 7nm shortage if GF would have filled their part. TBH I'm impressed AMD has survived this well so far.
So basically, AMD bets on Global Foundries 7nm which fizzles out, at the last moment TSMC gets orders instead.

And now people want to 'ban' TSMC because of making less Radeon?
You can't make this stuff up!
 

DoomSlayer

Posts: 18   +17
If that was true they would have released on CPUs and ditched GPUs entirely. Instead, they tried their best to offer high end options after many years. That doesn't sound like a company not caring about selling products to gamers. And yes, I say it like that, because no company actually cares about gamers. Not AMD, and especially not nVidia.

AMD did ditch GPU this round, just not entirely.
You have to remember that Nvidia only sell GPU, GPU is their bread and butter. It would give Nvidia long term competitive edge the more RTX gamers there are.
So yeah, Nvidia has to care about gamers for their long term benefits. Why do you think Nvidia went to the trouble of creating LHR version when they could just sell every single GPU they made either way.
 

DonquixoteIII

Posts: 93   +54
There are lies, damned lies, and statistics...

apples outsell oranges in Maine... from a survey by the national apple retailers association...

In other words. this article has a bad smell.
 

HardReset

Posts: 1,240   +898
So basically, AMD bets on Global Foundries 7nm which fizzles out, at the last moment TSMC gets orders instead.

And now people want to 'ban' TSMC because of making less Radeon?
You can't make this stuff up
Basically yes. AMD was forced to buy X amount of 7nm wafers monthly from GF. AMD told they want Z wafers monthly. However GF told AMD they could only make Y wafers monthly and AMD could buy rest anywhere. AMD calculated Z-X-Y and ordered that amount of wafers from TSMC. GF pulled plug from 7nm and AMD was forced to buy Z wafers from TSMC. Needless to say, TSMC had no chance to prepare for that. Other GF customers also turned for TSMC and we know what happened.
 

Bobbydpue

Posts: 220   +145
This article needs to be re-titled or pulled. You can not use a Steam.survey in that manner.

If a Steam survey was required every month, by everyone who logs in.... then you can extract such data. But when it's random and.typically 3 years behind in actual data...?

When is the last time you, or your friend were given a Steam survey...?

The title did use the word "may" and did say "According to the Steam Survey", what other metric is there to figure out how many cards have been sold to people using them? It's not as if the data is just sitting out in the open for everyone to see.

I saw the same thing at my local MC.

Given that and what they posted and then retracted, I would say that they are simply fueling the nvidia hype or worse, they are getting bribed by nvidia.

Honestly, nothing really surprises me anymore.
If NVIDIA is paying stores to lower the prices on NVIDIA cards I wouldn't complain about it. I mean AMD did the same thing with the Vega launch and their "introductory" pricing.
 

duckofdeath

Posts: 448   +586
AMD didn't plan but they really didn't have any choice because GlobalFoundries cancelled 7nm manufacturing tech. AMD wouldn't have any sort of 7nm shortage if GF would have filled their part. TBH I'm impressed AMD has survived this well so far.
AMD didn't have a choice, yeah. That is the exact point you're trying to skip around. TSMC did however have a choice and they chose to sell the same product to ten different buyers.
 

HardReset

Posts: 1,240   +898
AMD didn't have a choice, yeah. That is the exact point you're trying to skip around. TSMC did however have a choice and they chose to sell the same product to ten different buyers.
No. TSMC sells produced wafers, not products. There's not a single proof that TSMC had "sold" more wafers they could produce. It just capacity question. TSMC has 7nm capacity around 150K wafers per month. If customers want more than that, they just couldn't sell more. And main reason for excess demand is GlobalFoundries 7nm cancellation. There is also not single proof that TSMC produces less wafers than Sony or Microsoft ordered. Your points are invalid.
 

Bawlsdeep

Posts: 141   +153
Surely.
Per transistor, Zen3 are much more profitable than rdna2, so amd prefers to use its tsmc capacity to produce Zen3.

$799 5950x only needs around 11 billions transistors vs $999 6900xt that needs 26 billion transistors+16 GB gddr + fans etc.

Amd launches rdna2 only to screw nvidia

This is true. Top RDNA 2 GPU's were mainly to exist on paper and for reviewers, just to show that AMD actually has some high-end GPUs.

However AMD was more interested in selling the lower-end ones, which is why 6700XT sold the best even tho it came out MANY MONTHS after 6800 and 6900 series.
 

Bawlsdeep

Posts: 141   +153
You're all fighting over who bought more gpu's for twice the price. Good work.

Not really. I paid MSRP for my 3080 and my 3070, both were ordered on release day and was recieved within 1 week, before prices went south.

Had a 3080 Ti shortly, which was priced 25% higher than MSRP, but it was returned because it was barely faster than my 3080.

I will rather keep the 3080 till 4000 series or RNDA3 hits. I don't need more power anyway but 3080 started to bore me. I like new hardware, especially GPUs, and I have had this 3080 for almost a year now...

Oh well, GPU prices are probably back to normal or close when I actually need to upgrade in mid or late 2022.
 

paul1122

Posts: 155   +143
Not really. I paid MSRP for my 3080 and my 3070, both were ordered on release day and was recieved within 1 week, before prices went south.

Had a 3080 Ti shortly, which was priced 25% higher than MSRP, but it was returned because it was barely faster than my 3080.

I will rather keep the 3080 till 4000 series or RNDA3 hits. I don't need more power anyway but 3080 started to bore me. I like new hardware, especially GPUs, and I have had this 3080 for almost a year now...

Oh well, GPU prices are probably back to normal or close when I actually need to upgrade in mid or late 2022.
You're all fighting over who bought more gpus from one company or the other. Sorry for implying. I bought one also for MSRP.
 

Bawlsdeep

Posts: 141   +153
You're all fighting over who bought more gpus from one company or the other. Sorry for implying. I bought one also for MSRP.
Not fighting about anything, simply stating facts; Ampere outsold RDNA2 by a lot. No matter where you look, it's a fact. Only AMD fans are denying it.
 

paul1122

Posts: 155   +143
Not fighting about anything, simply stating facts; Ampere outsold RDNA2 by a lot. No matter where you look, it's a fact. Only AMD fans are denying it.
One could say both sides of an argument or 'fight' are simply stating the 'facts'. hehe.
 

duckofdeath

Posts: 448   +586
No. TSMC sells produced wafers, not products. There's not a single proof that TSMC had "sold" more wafers they could produce. It just capacity question. TSMC has 7nm capacity around 150K wafers per month. If customers want more than that, they just couldn't sell more. And main reason for excess demand is GlobalFoundries 7nm cancellation. There is also not single proof that TSMC produces less wafers than Sony or Microsoft ordered. Your points are invalid.
Wafers are products. That is the commodity they sell. These things are not sold over a counter for impulse buyers. They're booked years ahead. Yet, TSMC goes on taking in orders, year after year after year, for something they know they'll never deliver. If I'd do that, I'd go to prison for fraud.
 

HardReset

Posts: 1,240   +898
Not fighting about anything, simply stating facts; Ampere outsold RDNA2 by a lot. No matter where you look, it's a fact. Only AMD fans are denying it.
Nobody here is not denying that Ampere sells more than RDNA2.

However since Nvidia vs AMD sell ratio is usually 4:1 on discrete cards and around 1:1 overall, claiming 11:1 ratio needs much better proof than bugged Steam survey.
Wafers are products. That is the commodity they sell. These things are not sold over a counter for impulse buyers. They're booked years ahead. Yet, TSMC goes on taking in orders, year after year after year, for something they know they'll never deliver. If I'd do that, I'd go to prison for fraud.
Any proof that TSMC took orders they couldn't deliver? No. They simply tell they could not take more orders. Too bad for those who want chips but they could buy elsewhere. Simple as that.
 

Bawlsdeep

Posts: 141   +153
Nobody here is not denying that Ampere sells more than RDNA2.

However since Nvidia vs AMD sell ratio is usually 4:1 on discrete cards and around 1:1 overall, claiming 11:1 ratio needs much better proof than bugged Steam survey.

Any proof that TSMC took orders they couldn't deliver? No. They simply tell they could not take more orders. Too bad for those who want chips but they could buy elsewhere. Simple as that.

When AMD does not deliver cards or chips, people can't buy them. Pretty simple. And no, AMD does not sell 1 card every time Nvidia sells 4. Thats for sure.

AMDs marketshare is like 15% for GPU and 30% for CPU, rest is Nvidia and Intel.

TSMC had issues fulfilling orders from tons of manufacturers. This is common knowledge. Tons of news about this in both 2020 and 2021. There was several accidents at TSMC too, which put them offline for days and weeks at times, several fabs.

AMD simply prioritized console APUs and CPUs over GPUs, because it was more important to them. AMD probably barely used 10% of their capacity at TSMC for GPUs and 6700XT is their best selling card.

AMD earns more per CPU sold than GPU sold and mid-end GPUs in the 200-400 dollar segment has always been AMDs most popular range. This is why 6700XT has sold way better than any 6800 or 6900 series card even tho it was launched much later.

Most popular AMD cards in the last 5 years have been RX470,480,570 and 580. Pretty cheap mainstream cards. Small dies. Decent profit (vs cost). 5700 and 5700XT was somewhat succesful too.

AMD always had a hard time selling GPUs above 500 dollars. Most people that are willing to pay 500-1000 or even 1200-1500 dollars, pretty much always go Nvidia.

3090 outsold whole RDNA2 / 6000 series for this exact reason.

I know several people with 3090 and 3080 Ti. They don't care at all if a card is 600 or 1500 dollars. They just want the best and most of them earn enough to justify it.

No matter what you think about me. I'm no fanboy. I actually had AMD stocks for several years, but I sold at the peak, with a 1475% profit.

AMD had their run now. This always happens for AMD. I have been in this game for 25 years. However this has been AMDs best run. Without TSMC AMD would not have been able to do what they did. 7nm TSMC was literally the reason why Ryzen 3000/5000 series performed much better than 1000/2000 series.

If AMD had been stuck with GloFo 12nm, they would never have succeded. AMD is highly dependant of TSMC and when TSMC can't deliver, AMD just have to wait till they can.
 
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Avro Arrow

Posts: 1,727   +2,046
TechSpot Elite
Well, this just shows how inaccurate the Steam Survey is because, let's face it, this is impossible. The only way that I could see this happening is if miners snapped up all of the RDNA2 cards like they did with Polaris. The very idea that the RTX 3090 out-sold the entire RX 6000 line is just insane.
 
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HardReset

Posts: 1,240   +898
When AMD does not deliver cards or chips, people can't buy them. Pretty simple. And no, AMD does not sell 1 card every time Nvidia sells 4. Thats for sure.

AMDs marketshare is like 15% for GPU and 30% for CPU, rest is Nvidia and Intel.
I said cards. Overall market share has long time been AMD and Nvidia around 15-20%, rest Intel.

Discrete card share AMD around 20-25%, Nvidia rest. 4:1 comes directly from there.

Whatever if it's 4:1 or 5:1, it's still miles away from 11:1.
TSMC had issues fulfilling orders from tons of manufacturers. This is common knowledge. Tons of news about this in both 2020 and 2021. There was several accidents at TSMC too, which put them offline for days and weeks at times, several fabs.
Accidents are predictable? No. Claim was that TSMC took orders they knew they couldn't deliver. There is still no proof about that. Accidents are another story.

See https://www.digitimes.com/news/a20200116VL202.html
AMD simply prioritized console APUs and CPUs over GPUs, because it was more important to them. AMD probably barely used 10% of their capacity at TSMC for GPUs and 6700XT is their best selling card.

AMD earns more per CPU sold than GPU sold and mid-end GPUs in the 200-400 dollar segment has always been AMDs most popular range. This is why 6700XT has sold way better than any 6800 or 6900 series card even tho it was launched much later.

Most popular AMD cards in the last 5 years have been RX470,480,570 and 580. Pretty cheap mainstream cards. Small dies. Decent profit (vs cost). 5700 and 5700XT was somewhat succesful too.
There are no information about capacity allocation tbh. Of course mid end cards sell best, same thing with Nvidia.

AMD had hard years and decided not to make high end cards, that's the reason for concentrating those with best profit. However those days were supposed to be over but GF 7nm cancellation again caused problems. Perhaps with 5nm things are different.
AMD always had a hard time selling GPUs above 500 dollars. Most people that are willing to pay 500-1000 or even 1200-1500 dollars, pretty much always go Nvidia.

3090 outsold whole RDNA2 / 6000 series for this exact reason.
No it didn't. Only "source" for this claim is Steam survey that also claims AMD's third most popular series is HD 8800 :laughing:

Let's see facts:

- AMD makes big profit on GPU side. Source: AMD financial results.
- AMD GPU shipments grew 6.4% and Nvidia's decreased 7.3% Q1/2021 (vs Q4/2020). Source: Jon Peddie Research

OK, AMD makes tons of money from GPU's AND ships them a lot. And still some claim AMD does not deliver any 6000-series cards 🤦‍♂️

Remember: Those are reliable facts, not any stupid Steam "Radeon HD 8800 series is popular" survey crap.


AMD had their run now. This always happens for AMD. I have been in this game for 25 years. However this has been AMDs best run. Without TSMC AMD would not have been able to do what they did. 7nm TSMC was literally the reason why Ryzen 3000/5000 series performed much better than 1000/2000 series.

If AMD had been stuck with GloFo 12nm, they would never have succeded. AMD is highly dependant of TSMC and when TSMC can't deliver, AMD just have to wait till they can.
Yes and no. You can see Zen2/Zen3 without any aid of 7nm here https://www.techspot.com/article/2143-ryzen-5000-ipc-performance/

Using TMSC 7nm gave around 15-20% more performance (improved clock speed but higher memory latency) vs Zen but Zen3 architecture improvements give even more. Even that would have been enough against current Intel CPUs. I must also remind that GF was supposed to have 7nm in production 2020, just like Intel was supposed to have 10nm in production 2017. Yes, AMD is dependant of TSMC, but that's just because GF failed.
 

Skjorn

Posts: 624   +477
I saw the same thing at my local MC.

Given that and what they posted and then retracted, I would say that they are simply fueling the nvidia hype or worse, they are getting bribed by nvidia.

Honestly, nothing really surprises me anymore.
Yeah you're right I'm being bribed. Bribed to make comments on a TS article. You gotta be kidding me lmao.
The only 3090 priced under 2K is the FE and EVGA cards. Same goes for all the other cards mentioned. EVGA and FE models are the only ones in the price range you mentioned. Zotac is off the charts on pricing. AMD doesn't really have a comparable partner, it's all priced high. In combination with less features, higher prices and historically less frequent software updates it's no wonder AMD still sits on the shelf.
How can many people fail to see through this?
As a person who works in retail. It's clear that the stores are doing this. The AIBs very well know that AMD is more supply constrained as compared to Nvidia. And also that Nvidia has more mind share. So they do the more assured thing to maximise ROI, they purchase a few of the AMD cards every now and then (just to appease AMD and its fans) but hike the prices. And then they buy boat loads of Nvidia cards and price them reasonably, with the AMD cards as contrast. The result is a high turn over of nVidia cards, and thus faster generation of profit. When things settle down, they'll return the 6k card prices back to normal. It's just business acrobatics for them. This is the reason why AMD cards are at MSRP on the AMD website when they are available.
It's because of tariffs not whatever weird stuff you just came up with.
 
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