Power-hungry Ampere could lead to PSU shortages

midian182

Posts: 6,160   +51
Staff member
In a nutshell: Fears that the pandemic could result in shortages for many of the holiday season’s top gaming products—Ampere, Big Navi, PS5, Xbox Series X—appear to have been overblown. But those buying one of Nvidia’s, and possibly AMD’s, power-hungry cards may face a different problem: a PSU shortage that has pushed up the price of some models and seen others out of stock.

In our RTX 3080 review, we see it pushing the test system up to 523 watts, more than any other card we’ve tested, including the RX Vega 64 and GTX 1080 Ti. Nvidia recommends a minimum 750W power supply for both the RTX 3080 and RTX 3090, though larger ones will be needed for some systems. All of which means a lot of people intending to buy one of the beastly cards will also need a new PSU.

Asus has tweeted a chart (via Tom’s Hardware) that shows the recommended PSU based on your graphics card/CPU combination. At the highest end, an RTX 3090 with an AMD Threadripper asks for a massive 1000W unit. The lowest Ampere requirement—an RTX 3070 with a Core i5/Ryzen 5 or Core i7/Ryzen 7—is 650W.

The problem is that we were already experiencing issues with power supply stocks. The pandemic’s impact on production in China and the increased cost of shipping products by plane were major factors, but the sudden increase in people working from home and their need for new PCs also played a part.

Most PSUs seem to be in stock right now, but many have seen their prices rise recently. The situation could be exacerbated, though, as Ampere and—soon—Big Navi buyers are forced to upgrade their power supplies.

Permalink to story.

 

tomkaten

Posts: 289   +239
Guys, not sure what's up with your charts and tables lately, but they're very blurry. You might want to check that out.
 

Teko03

Posts: 621   +329
Geez. Not sure why I went with it, but I chose an 850W PSU for my i9 build last year....just making the cut for an i9 / 3080 combo.
 

Ludak021

Posts: 302   +216
So, for a <700W PC, one needs 1000W PSU. Riiight. I've pushed crossfire 280x on i7 with 700W PSU without issues.
 

Privery

Posts: 104   +53
I remember somewhere on some comment section someone said they wanted to have a dual way sli setup with an rtx 3090 (idk what cpu) That probably won't end well.
 

Mister_K

Posts: 1,979   +632
So, for a <700W PC, one needs 1000W PSU. Riiight. I've pushed crossfire 280x on i7 with 700W PSU without issues.
Are you expecting to roll with <1000W PSU for the rest of time? As technology gets faster, requirement for more power reflects that. No matter how efficient the chips are. Give it a few more decades and we will start seeing 1500W to 2500W PSUs to power your super hungry rigs.
 

Mister_K

Posts: 1,979   +632
The PSU prices have already inflated in the last few months due to COVID and they are suppose to increase again? Are they bonkers?
 

Vrmithrax

Posts: 1,557   +607
If the AMD 6000 cards pull similar power requirements, this will just get worse after those launch as well. Could be a bumpy ride for PS manufacturers and PC component retailers.
 

fadingfool

Posts: 189   +191
Are you expecting to roll with <1000W PSU for the rest of time? As technology gets faster, requirement for more power reflects that. No matter how efficient the chips are. Give it a few more decades and we will start seeing 1500W to 2500W PSUs to power your super hungry rigs.
Already have a 1500W in my PC (Intel HEDT) .
 

Endymio

Posts: 981   +828
So, for a <700W PC, one needs 1000W PSU. Riiight. I've pushed crossfire 280x on i7 with 700W PSU without issues.
Yep. I've seen people with components totalling 400-500 watts of maximum consumption swear on a bible they "need" a 1000w PSU.

As for this from the article: "Nvidia recommends a minimum 750W power supply for both the RTX 3080 and RTX 3090"." That's based on a reference system with a 125w Intel Core 10900K, along with NVidia's "fudge factor" based on knowing absolutely nothing about your machine. There will be plenty of 3080 based systems which will be absolutely fine with a 600w or even 550w supply.
 

antiproduct

Posts: 161   +178
So, for a <700W PC, one needs 1000W PSU. Riiight. I've pushed crossfire 280x on i7 with 700W PSU without issues.
The closer you push your system to the max of your PSU, the less efficient the PSU becomes. Also, you can run in to the potential "load game, play for a minute, lose all system power" problem that I had back in the day when I had a weak little PSU and a brand new power hungry card.
 

Jpe1701

Posts: 22   +13
The closer you push your system to the max of your PSU, the less efficient the PSU becomes. Also, you can run in to the potential "load game, play for a minute, lose all system power" problem that I had back in the day when I had a weak little PSU and a brand new power hungry card.
Somehow I'm not too concerned that my platinum rated 750w is going to be inefficient at 500w total system power with a 3080. It's the junk power supplies that don't really put out what they say they do that makes these companies inflate the power requirements so that people aren't burning their house down.
 

Endymio

Posts: 981   +828
The closer you push your system to the max of your PSU, the less efficient the PSU becomes.
The opposite is true as well -- running your PSU at far below its maximum rating lowers its efficiency also. Most of those I've seen have a peak efficiency rating somewhere between 50 and 85% load.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Ludak021

dirtyferret

Posts: 642   +753
The opposite is true as well -- running your PSU at far below its maximum rating lowers its efficiency also. Most of those I've seen have a peak efficiency rating somewhere between 50 and 85% load.
yes but every fan boys knows the more powerful your PSU the more powerful your PC is. So thanks to my 1500w platinum unit, my AMD RX 470 gives me AMD 5700XT performance. It's also why I recommend a 1000w unit (seasonic of course because I have never heard of another manufacturer) as the bare minimum just to boot up a PC.
 

nodfor

Posts: 23   +22
Computerbase.de posted a test showing the rtx 3080 FE being around 5% slower with a cap of 270W instead of 320 W. Maybe setting the card to lower wattage makes more sense than buying a new PSU?
 

Evernessince

Posts: 5,461   +6,132
Yep. I've seen people with components totalling 400-500 watts of maximum consumption swear on a bible they "need" a 1000w PSU.

As for this from the article: "Nvidia recommends a minimum 750W power supply for both the RTX 3080 and RTX 3090"." That's based on a reference system with a 125w Intel Core 10900K, along with NVidia's "fudge factor" based on knowing absolutely nothing about your machine. There will be plenty of 3080 based systems which will be absolutely fine with a 600w or even 550w supply.
600w should barely be fine assuming no OC and a quality power supply. 550w is not regardless of PSU. A system with a 10900K, 16GB RAM, 1 NVME SSD, 3 fans and a 3080 will consume around 526w. That doesn't take into consideration that silicon quality varies or any overclocking. You also have to factor in 5% max load loss each year from capacitor aging. 26w is not enough of a buffer to account for all these factors. That's a basic system, factor in any addition drives, fans, or power using peripherals and those watts add up.

Not advising people to buy a 1000w PSU but you should definitely give your system a minimum buffer.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Reehahs

Endymio

Posts: 981   +828
600w should barely be fine assuming no OC and a quality power supply. 550w is not regardless of PSU. A system with a 10900K...consumes around 526w...
You're still assuming that 125w Intel CPU. Assume a 65w Ryzen, and a 550w is fine-- again, depending on mobo, ram, & drives of course.
 

Evernessince

Posts: 5,461   +6,132
You're still assuming that 125w Intel CPU. Assume a 65w Ryzen, and a 550w is fine-- again, depending on mobo, ram, & drives of course.
65w is the TDP, not actual power consumption of the 1600, 2600, or 3600

You are looking at 128 - 125 at full load: https://www.guru3d.com/articles-pages/amd-ryzen-5-1600-review,7.html

The 10900K draws almost 128w single thread, let alone using all it's cores where it tops 296w.

My assumption above was conservative in that it took the middle ground between single and full load.

If you take the full load usage of the 10900K + the 3080 you'd get almost 600w on those two parts alone, not counting ram, mobo, ect.

Even for people with a midrange CPU like the Rzyen x600 series, 550w is not enough when paired with the 3080.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Reehahs

Endymio

Posts: 981   +828
65w is the TDP, not actual power consumption...You are looking at 128 - 125 at full load: https://www.guru3d.com/articles-pages/amd-ryzen-5-1600-review,7.html
Err, you've again misread your sources. From the article introduction:

>> "In an IDLE state, a PC (motherboard / processor / GTX 1080 / memory / SSD) consumes roughly 50 Watts. This number depends and will vary per motherboard (added ICs / controllers / wifi / bluetooth) and PSU (efficiency). Keep in mind that we measure the ENTIRE PC, not just the processor's power consumption..."
 

Evernessince

Posts: 5,461   +6,132
Err, you've again misread your sources. From the article introduction:

>> "In an IDLE state, a PC (motherboard / processor / GTX 1080 / memory / SSD) consumes roughly 50 Watts. This number depends and will vary per motherboard (added ICs / controllers / wifi / bluetooth) and PSU (efficiency). Keep in mind that we measure the ENTIRE PC, not just the processor's power consumption..."
No, that number was very conservative.

Other reviews show just the CPU power at 133w as measured at the 8 pin.

 

Endymio

Posts: 981   +828
No, that number was very conservative. Other reviews show just the CPU power at 133w as measured at the 8 pin.

Heh, you did it again. Your latest article shows both total system and cpu power on the same graph. The 133w figure you cite is total system power. (hint: check the legend).

The CPU clocks in at just 54.3 watts.
 

Evernessince

Posts: 5,461   +6,132
The CPU clocks in at just 54.3 watts.
Lol, looks like we're both wrong

1600376107142.png

You are reading Idle Sys of the 1600, which is measured as you reported at 54.3.

I was reading Load sys, which is measure as 133.

Just CPU power is at 83w (Load CPU)

So yes for the 1600 the power consumption is lower but my earlier conclusion stands. That's still leaves you with tool small a buffer and that's really a best case situation. If you have a more power hungry Intel processor (even the 4 core models consume more power as shown) or a higher end AMD CPU, you are definitely not going to have of a buffer, if any. I would not be surprised if there were many more people running those older Intel CPUs, more power hungry modern Intel CPUs, or high end AMD CPUs. That's a pretty large group compared to just mid-range / low end AMD CPUs. I'm excluding low end Intel CPUs here as people with those are very unlikely to be running a 3080 and there would be other problems like bottlenecking.
 

Endymio

Posts: 981   +828
Lol, looks like we're both wrong
No, just you. The author at Tweaktown bears a little responsibility also, for mistakenly believing you can accurately measure cpu power dissipation through the 8-pin port. The AM4 socket has 1331 pins, many of which are output VSS/VDD/VDDIO. In simple terms, just because the cpu is drawing a certain wattage does not mean it is dissipating it all internally.

In any case, you're again staring at a tree and losing sight of the forest. There are much lower-power CPUs than the 1600/2600/3600s. My original point was that the blanket statement "a 3080 requires at least a 750w PSU" is simply incorrect. It all depends on the components chosen.
 
Last edited: