Renewed calls to replace "blacklist," "whitelist," and "master/slave" terms amid BLM protests

[midian182]

A hot potato: Not for the first time, certain tech terms are being called outdated and racist. As Black Lives Matter protests take place around the world, many in the industry want words such as blacklist, whitelist, master, and slave changed.

The word blacklist, which is used to describe a list containing banned, disallowed, or undesirable elements such as passwords, spam emails, websites, applications, etc. has been under scrutiny for years. Some find the term problematic, especially as whitelist describes everything that is allowed, or good.

Both blacklist and whitelist have been banned by the UK’s National Cyber Security Center, while Google engineers have stopped using the terms in Chromium.

White hat and black hat, which refer to an ethical hacker and one who hacks for personal gain, respectively, have also faced calls to be replaced with “ethical” and “unethical.”

I refuse to use “whitelist”/“blacklist” or “master”/“slave” terminology for computers. Join me. Words matter.

— Leah Culver (@leahculver) June 6, 2020

“Master” and “slave” have been familiar terms among computer enthusiasts for decades. They’re also part of the terminology in the world of database storage, music recording, software, vehicles, trains, and more. As note by CNET, Python developers dropped the words in 2018, while the team behind Drupal replaced them with “primary/replica” in 2014. In 2013, LA County asked suppliers and contractors to stop using "master" and "slave" on computer equipment.

An academic study from the University of Limerick claimed terms such as blacklist, whitelist, and black sheep do “not merely reflect a racist culture, but also serves to legitimise and perpetuate it.”

The death of George Floyd and the subsequent Black Lives Matter protests have once again put these terms under the spotlight. Some believe they are racially insensitive and should be replaced, while others say doing so would make no difference, and other actions, such as donating to a cause, would have a more positive effect.

Permalink to story.

https://www.techspot.com/news/85587-calls-replace-blacklist-whitelist-masterslave-terms-amid-blm.html

 

[Uncle Al]

I'm all for the protests over police misconduct but there comes a point where things are going overboard and this is a perfect example. The failure of diversity is not something that can be overstated but if we allow ANY word or phrase outside of the obvious (like the N word) then our society & culture become meaningless.

 

[MLogan]

I'm all for the protests over police misconduct but there comes a point where things are going overboard and this is a perfect example. The failure of diversity is not something that can be overstated but if we allow ANY word or phrase outside of the obvious (like the N word) then our society & culture become meaningless.

I am with you on this one...So here is my question for those who demand this...Right Now, This Very Minute, we abolish these phrases...what has that helped or accomplished...this is not where the fight should be....I am amazed. It is like the confederate monuments they had torn down...that did absolutely nothing.

 

[Uncle Al]

Well said .... when we disagree with things we tend to want to tear something down but fail to look at the opposite side. Instead of tearing down confederate monuments, why not put up an equal number of monuments proclaiming some of the tremendous contributions of those races ..... there are many, so why not give it a try?

 

[Hexic]

Once the bandwagon gets rolling... it barrels through all common sense and logical thought.

The general public is depressingly dim.

 

[wiyosaya]

It is like the confederate monuments they had torn down...that did absolutely nothing.

So monuments to people who fought for principles that are completely antithetical to current values have no meaning in modern society?

As I see it, tearing down those monuments is symbolic to people who support those ideals, still, today, that they will no longer be tolerated. Those to whom the monuments were meaningful certainly do not like the idea; how about if ask them if that is how they want to be treated?

As to the banning of these words, do we now approach Disney and demand that they change Star Wars to remove references to the dark side? Do we remove all references from literature through time immemorial to forces of darkness and forces of light? I highly doubt such terms can be removed from all the places that they appear. They had no origin in racism. In fact, I bet their origin is found in day/night, but certainly not racism.

 

[Thanthan]

As I've noted before on this board the origins of the word blacklist stems from factory owners putting workers that tried to unionize or similarly organize factory workers in "black book"s, which is clearly classist rather than racist. I don't particularly mind language changing in an effort to be more inclusive as well as ridding ourselves of language that is racist in origin, but I do mind that EVERYTHING is immediately brought back to racism. Some things have origins other than racism (that should be obvious to everyone I hope), so removing any and all phrases that have the colours black and brown in them doesn't just remove phrases that have no racist origin story because people can't be bothered to look them up in an etymological dictionary, but even contorts and twists the narrative of where these phrases come from. This, I take issue with.

 

[m4a4]

No. Context matters. And the IT context shouldn't care about overly-sensitive people's feelings (not that they were racist terms to begin with).

All the illogical people calling for this should get blacklisted from making decisions lol.

 

[mbrowne5061]

Master/Slave terminology probably should be abolished, and I have no strong opinion one way or another on Black/White. I can see where the argument to replace the Black/White terms comes from, and somewhat agree with it. At the end of the day, its just names and buzzwords. If someone thinks they should be changed and you disagree, ask yourself, is this really the hill you want to die on?

I am with you on this one...So here is my question for those who demand this...Right Now, This Very Minute, we abolish these phrases...what has that helped or accomplished...this is not where the fight should be....I am amazed. It is like the confederate monuments they had torn down...that did absolutely nothing.

Except those monuments were erected not immediately following the civil war, but during the Jim Crow era. They're also to the generals of a traitor nation that failed within 4 years of being founded. Save the history of losing side for the books and museums, where they can be presented with context, not for random street corners of neighborhoods that were populated with the descendants of former slaves at the time those statues were erected.

 

[Aqueltic]

 

[Thanthan]

So monuments to people who fought for principles that are completely antithetical to current values have no meaning in modern society?

As I see it, tearing down those monuments is symbolic to people who support those ideals, still, today, that they will no longer be tolerated. Those to whom the monuments were meaningful certainly do not like the idea; how about if ask them if that is how they want to be treated?

As to the banning of these words, do we now approach Disney and demand that they change Star Wars to remove references to the dark side? Do we remove all references from literature through time immemorial to forces of darkness and forces of light? I highly doubt such terms can be removed from all the places that they appear. They had no origin in racism. In fact, I bet their origin is found in day/night, but certainly not racism.

Did slaveowners in the 19th century ask black people how they wanted to be treated? Thought not.

Also what principles? The principles of viewing other people as property? the principles of greed and avarice no matter the cost to other humans? Those are not "ideals" or "principles", just that sad little piece of Gollum inside every humans heart shining its' brightest.

 

[bviktor]

Cool. Now, can we finally also ban "white rice" and "brown rice"? I'm offended to no end by these racist terms.

 

[Thanthan]

Well said .... when we disagree with things we tend to want to tear something down but fail to look at the opposite side. Instead of tearing down confederate monuments, why not put up an equal number of monuments proclaiming some of the tremendous contributions of those races ..... there are many, so why not give it a try?

Firstly they're not actually confederate monuments. They're mostly put up by the KKK or similar organizations during the Jim Crow era as away to tell black people what white people in the area thought their place in society was. Secondly, you'll notice that in every single country on earth, people try to put up statues of people they admire, to celebrate them and their legacy. What legacy is there to celebrate about a bunch of people who committed treason because they didn't want their slaves taken away from them?

If you want a museum telling the story, I'm all for it. But statues and monuments are to celebrate actions or individuals, and celebrating those that fought for slavery sends an interesting message to coloured people doesn't it?

 

[m4a4]

So monuments to people who fought for principles that are completely antithetical to current values have no meaning in modern society?

As I see it, tearing down those monuments is symbolic to people who support those ideals, still, today, that they will no longer be tolerated. Those to whom the monuments were meaningful certainly do not like the idea; how about if ask them if that is how they want to be treated?

Yes, hastily remove history because society can no longer understand that in the past people and society had different (and widely accepted) principles.
Might as well go and villainize every historic figure you can find, because I can guarantee that you can find they supported something that this self-righteous culture would find wrong.

And besides, mobs shouldn't dictate anything regardless what side you're on.

 

[ShagnWagn]

What's next? No "white" or "black" paint? The words mean what you want them in your head. Do you think of them as racist terms? Then you are a racist. Quit thinking of it like they are. You can twist about any word if your mind is in the gutter. Racists are using the word "racist" to get a sense of false "power". Quit trying to manipulate people. It's really disgusting.

 

[TomSEA]

Firstly they're not actually confederate monuments. They're mostly put up by the KKK or similar organizations during the Jim Crow era as away to tell black people what white people in the area thought their place in society was. Secondly, you'll notice that in every single country on earth, people try to put up statues of people they admire, to celebrate them and their legacy. What legacy is there to celebrate about a bunch of people who committed treason because they didn't want their slaves taken away from them?

If you want a museum telling the story, I'm all for it. But statues and monuments are to celebrate actions or individuals, and celebrating those that fought for slavery sends an interesting message to coloured people doesn't it?

Conspiracy theorist much? I have news for you, most Confederate monuments were erected - and continue to be maintained - by the Daughters of the Confederacy. A historical legacy group.

 

[kimo1]

Who is lobbying this? How about we prohibit color black and white all together? Also, black people weren't only slaves in history. Lots of nations all over the world endured hardships under tyranny. But nobody cares about their lives. Perhaps all people who were slaves some point in history should start rioting, demand rights and demand banning of everything imaginable? That would be cool. Why is it that when america tells the rest of the world something to do, the rest of the world obeys? Except some eastern and asian countries which are not fully under control of america...
But yeah, a shadow group is organizing all this. For greater purpose. Not for the people, but for their own amusement. Mass control. Everything is continuing to go as planned.

 

[wiyosaya]

Yes, hastily remove history because society can no longer understand that in the past people and society had different (and widely accepted) principles.
Might as well go and villainize every historic figure you can find, because I can guarantee that you can find they supported something that this self-righteous culture would find wrong.

And besides, mobs shouldn't dictate anything regardless what side you're on.

Not all confederate monuments have been removed by mobs; rather, they have been removed by local governments.

As others have said, there is a place for references to such creatures - in history books or museums.

"History" can never be removed.

And what would you recommend we do with those "mob" persons who tore down the monuments in protest?

Did slaveowners in the 19th century ask black people how they wanted to be treated? Thought not.

Obviously not.

However, asking those who support slavery now, in this day and age, if they would like to be slaves themselves, I think is relevant. I bet we all know how most would answer - something along the lines of hell no, or I'm too <insert your favorite prideful phrase here> to be a slave.

Also what principles? The principles of viewing other people as property? the principles of greed and avarice no matter the cost to other humans? Those are not "ideals" or "principles", just that sad little piece of Gollum inside every humans heart shining its' brightest.

Humanity has been and will be for some time, I suspect, gray.

 

[Maxiking]

BLM is the cult of deranged socialists which exploit the herd mentality of their puppets to destroy, cancel and censor the ideas they don't like.

 

[wiyosaya]

BLM is the cult of deranged socialists which exploit the herd mentality of their puppets to destroy, cancel and censor the ideas they don't like.

Let me see if I got this straight: Are you in favor of police just killing people for no good reason?

Under the right conditions, you also might be at the wrong end of a police gun.

 

[psycros]

Firstly they're not actually confederate monuments. They're mostly put up by the KKK or similar organizations during the Jim Crow era as away to tell black people what white people in the area thought their place in society was. Secondly, you'll notice that in every single country on earth, people try to put up statues of people they admire, to celebrate them and their legacy. What legacy is there to celebrate about a bunch of people who committed treason because they didn't want their slaves taken away from them?

If you want a museum telling the story, I'm all for it. But statues and monuments are to celebrate actions or individuals, and celebrating those that fought for slavery sends an interesting message to coloured people doesn't it?

That's total BS about the statues, and if you really think its OK to dishonor soldiers who died for a cause most of them believed in, then you need to do some soul-searching and maybe get some therapy. If you're going to champion a cause you should at least be marginally knowledgeable about it and show a modicum of sensitivity to the other side. What we don't need is more foaming-at-the-mouth partisans.

 

[Maxiking]

Let me see if I got this straight: Are you in favor of police just killing people for no good reason?

Under the right conditions, you also might be at the wrong end of a police gun.

https://imgur.com/lmnihar

That's all what I will say, not worth of my time.

 

[PenguinJoe]

Master and slave were terms used for the primary and secondary hard drives on a single IDE (pre-SATA for the millennials here) ribbon cable (there could only be 2). It was necessary to designate one of them master and the other slave.

 

[Capaill]

In other news, snow is now banned. As are wedding dresses. And clouds. Except the grey and black ones, they can stay.
Stars are also banned.
And any white in the American flag.
Milk is also outlawed, to be replaced immediately with crude oil.

I find it racist that this colour debate is limited to Caucasians and Africans. What colour do Asians want to be? Then we can draw up another list of coloured phrases to ban. What about Red Indians? Don't they get a say?

 

[PenguinJoe]

In other news, snow is now banned. As are wedding dresses. And clouds. Except the grey and black ones, they can stay.
Stars are also banned.
And any white in the American flag.
Milk is also outlawed, to be replaced immediately with crude oil.

I find it racist that this colour debate is limited to Caucasians and Africans. What colour do Asians want to be? Then we can draw up another list of coloured phrases to ban. What about Red Indians? Don't they get a say?

You would be surprised other colors or between them. Heaven help you if you look Islamic.