So you only have PCI slots and want to game?

[Tha General]

People are playing gears of war with it and lots of other games, just go over to youtube and see. Hell i might end up buying one , just to move up a number from p3 to p4 for my next rig. Even tho as it stands my next rig is going to be a pentium dual core with 2.4ghz on it. but anything can change, i mean if i find a p4 , or if one comes in, the shop, i might end up buying it.

Anyways, another new PCI card is out, but its another 2400HD

http://www.club3d.nl/index.php/products/graphics/item/367

CLUB3D?
never heard of them, but hey i am happy!

I also found this, for those who are curious about the 8400gs vs the 8400gs pcie version
http://www.gpureview.com/show_cards.php?card1=576&card2=529

Seems like the PCI version beats it, but the memory is lower, so when i do buy my8400gs i am just going to oc the memory to 400. or just leave it be.

 

[direwolf007]

People are playing gears of war with it and lots of other games, just go over to youtube and see. Hell i might end up buying one , just to move up a number from p3 to p4 for my next rig. Even tho as it stands my next rig is going to be a pentium dual core with 2.4ghz on it. but anything can change, i mean if i find a p4 , or if one comes in, the shop, i might end up buying it.

The fact people can play doesn't make it a mid-high end rig. A mid-high end rig would be an overclocked quad core, or a massively overclocked dual core CPU, with a HD4870X2 or a 280GTX, or a several simpler cards in an SLI/CF setup.

I also found this, for those who are curious about the 8400gs vs the 8400gs pcie version
http://www.gpureview.com/show_cards.php?card1=576&card2=529

Seems like the PCI version beats it, but the memory is lower, so when i do buy my8400gs i am just going to oc the memory to 400. or just leave it be.

1) The PCI version only "beats" it on paper.
2) The specs on that page are simply wrong. No 8400GS has 32 Stream Processors (They even got the name wrong), be it on the PCI or the PCI-E. Both the 8500GT and 8400GS share 16 Stream processors, while the 8600GT has 32.

 

[Rage_3K_Moiz]

Yep, the 8400GS (PCI or PCI-E) has the G86 core, not the G84, which belongs to the 8600GT.

 

[Tha General]

This is the PNY 8400GS PCI gpu shot

It says G98. I can't wait to get my 8400gs again, should work much better in w2k then XP. Only because Xp was too much for computer.

 

[KarmasAlexis]

The Sparkle 8500GT PCI supports Windows Vista but is not Vista exclusive. I used my Sparkle 8500GT with my Windows XP Home Edition and it worked just fine. What that means is that it is backwards compatible but supports Vista.

Ok I found this Sparkle 8500GT graphics card. It seems to have everything I require. I'll post a link as soon as i can. It has 256MB of memoryand it supports Directx 10, along with a whole other range of appreciated features. The price is $89.99 and for all the things it has, I don't think it's a bad price.
OF course., I don't want to narrow in on it yet so feel free to recommend other things for me to check.

On to other things, one of the other requirements for the Sims 2 freetime is 512 MB or more of RAM. I believe I checked my computer and I have about 504MB of RAM. How can I increase my RAM? That is Random Access Memory right? Do I just start deleting like crazy or is it more complicated than that?

 

[KarmasAlexis]

Ok so the main reason for posting on and reading posts from this messsage board is to find a graphics card which allows me to play The Sims 2 freetime (and whatever other expansion packs grab me) with the utmost efficiency and best game experience possible. So I'm posting the requirements I need to meet in order to play the game.

OS:Windows XP ( i have this), Vista, Me, 2000 or 98
Installed:The Sims 2 for Windows
CPU:1.3GHz or faster (2.0GHz for Vista)
RAM:512MB or more (1.0GB for Vista)
Disc Drive:8x or faster CD/DVD drive
Hard Drive:At least 1.5 GB of free space.
Video:Directx 9 compatible
Audio:Direct x 9 compatible

Video card must have 64MB or more memory and one of these T&L capable chipsets:
ATI Radeon 8500 or greater (ATI Radeon 9600 or greater for Vista)
NVIDIA GeForce2 GTS or greater (GeForce 6200 or greater for Vista)

And that ladies and gentlemen of the Board is the list of requirements to be met if I am to be sucessful in playing the Sims 2 freetime.
I believe the Sparkle 8500 GT has met all of the requiremants but please feel free to suggest anything else.

 

[KarmasAlexis]

The Sparkle 8500GT PCI supports Windows Vista but is not Vista exclusive. I used my Sparkle 8500GT with my Windows XP Home Edition and it worked just fine. What that means is that it is backwards compatible but supports Vista.

You said yours worked just fine. Could you take a look at the requirements for The SIms 2 freetime i posted and see if you can make a kind of connection between the games you use and the one I'm trying to meet the prerequisite for?
And what do you mean when you say it's backwards compatible?
Teach me. Help me to understand.

 

[Tha General]

Karmas Alexis, system requriements for games are not always accurate. The 8500GT should be able to max the game out and you shouldn't have any trouble. And yea 89 dollars for that card is a good price, even tho for pci cards, they price should drop to 60, but 90 is good if you have the cash to spare.

Here is the 8500GT GPU-Z PCI snap

 

[KarmasAlexis]

Could you take a look at this crad forme please? Tell me what you think.

http://www.geeks.com/details.asp?In...m=ShoppingSites&utm_campaign=SF-PC85GT256U2-P

The two above mentioned graphic cards can't be the same thing. I hope not. Because if they are that means they have PCI-Express slots... And I have PCI slots. Anyway I don't think they are. The names appear to be different.
Let's hope so... I hope so.
P.S. Sorry about my atrocious spelling. The thread should read "Could You take a look at this card for me please? Tell me what you think."
There! Now it's right again. If only because I have an issue with bad spelling.

Karmas Alexis, system requriements for games are not always accurate. The 8500GT should be able to max the game out and you shouldn't have any trouble. And yea 89 dollars for that card is a good price, even tho for pci cards, they price should drop to 60, but 90 is good if you have the cash to spare.

Here is the 8500GT GPU-Z PCI snap

Thanks for the upload. But I have PCI slots. Not PCI-Express. Anyway your input is appreciated. Thanks alot!

 

[Tha General]

Could you take a look at this card for me please? Tell me what you think.

http://www.geeks.com/details.asp?In...m=ShoppingSites&utm_campaign=SF-PC85GT256U2-P

The two above mentioned graphic cards can't be the same thing. I hope not. Because if they are that means they have PCI-Express slots... And I have PCI slots. Anyway I don't think they are. The names appear to be different.
Let's hope so... I hope so.
P.S. Sorry about my atrocious spelling. The thread should read "Could You take a look at this card for me please? Tell me what you think."
There! Now it's right again. If only because I have an issue with bad spelling.

Its a pci card, what are you asking again?
Thats a sparkle 8500GT PCI version, not PCIE.

Thanks for the upload. But I have PCI slots. Not PCI-Express. Anyway your input is appreciated. Thanks alot!

take a look at my 2400HD PCI card.

New PCI cards says PCIE, because they use a special bridge to make them, or something like that. Thats why it says pcie, it also shares some of the pcie bandwidth. So that 8500GT is from the PCI version.

 

[direwolf007]

Its a pci card, what are you asking again?
Thats a sparkle 8500GT PCI version, not PCIE.

take a look at my 2400HD PCI card.

New PCI cards says PCIE, because they use a special bridge to make them, or something like that. Thats why it says pcie, it also shares some of the pcie bandwidth. So that 8500GT is from the PCI version.

New PCI cards use a PCI to PCI-E bridge chip which to the card reads like a PCI-Ex1 slot, and to the host computer as a PCI device. This is the reason why the card reads as if it is on top of a PCI-Ex1 slot in GPU-Z. It doesn't "share" any PCI-E bandwidth, because it isn't connected to any PCI-E interconnects on the host, and in many cases in this thread, there is no PCI-E interconnect anywhere in the system to share bandwidth with in any case.

 

[teklord]

Ok I found this Sparkle 8500GT graphics card. It seems to have everything I require. I'll post a link as soon as i can. It has 256MB of memoryand it supports Directx 10, along with a whole other range of appreciated features. The price is $89.99 and for all the things it has, I don't think it's a bad price.
OF course., I don't want to narrow in on it yet so feel free to recommend other things for me to check.

On to other things, one of the other requirements for the Sims 2 freetime is 512 MB or more of RAM. I believe I checked my computer and I have about 504MB of RAM. How can I increase my RAM? That is Random Access Memory right? Do I just start deleting like crazy or is it more complicated than that?

The Sparkle 8500GT is a tad steep in price for PCI performance vs say PCI-E 2.0 but it is your best option at the moment and my personal recommendation.

I believe you do have a half gig of RAM already but it is measured differently by your PC from the RAM manufacturer so it shows up as only 504MB vs 512MB. They are using two different definitions of RAM and it is a common discrepancy in high tech today. I recommend upgrading your RAM to the highest your mobo (motherboard) can handle, which should be at least 2GB worth. Newegg.com has great deals on RAM with their rebates.

Also recommend a sound card to take the load off your P4 processing the sound. These are the basics you need to game effectively.

On a different note, Tha General makes everyone mad and upset on every board I find him on because he thinks PCI cards are all you need to game. I agree they are important and serve a purpose that most don't recognize, but I don't agree with running a PIII perpetually and spending several hundred dollars on PCI cards when you could have used that exact same money to build a state-of-the-art rig with PCI-E 2.0 slots. He is welcome to use whatever he wants I feel, I just take his situation with a grain of salt and let others use what they want.

Also, those GPU-Z screens prove 8500GT is the best there is right now for PCI, if GPUreview didn't already convince you.

 

[FusilliJerry82]

P4's suck a big one. While they're not terrible if you've bought into one when they were Intel's only show in town, to buy into one for a new PC is a horrendous idea. They're way too much money for the performance you get. For ~$30 you can get a Celeron 420, the single-core version of a Celeron/Pentium Dual-Core which is roughly equivalent to a P4 @ 3Ghz, yet runs infinitely cooler and uses a ton less power. To buy a faster P4 than that they get much more expensive to where you're paying for a 3.8Ghz P4 (the fastest) what you could get a respectable E8xxx series Core 2 Duo ($100-120). Especially at a shop; mind you at shops like you probably go, the mark-up above what you'll see online, which are the prices I'm quoting, you may see a 50-100% markup. Up your budget just another ~$20-30 (online) from the Celeron 420 and you've still blown the doors off all P4's and most Pentium D's.

I'm all about squeezing life out of older machines and some of these PCI cards are worth it, but buying into old stuff because it seems like you're getting a value is very ill-informed. Any Pentium 4 with Pentium 4 era hardware (Geforce 6-7 series, DDR/DDR2-533) by today's standard is very low-end. Towers you find in black friday sales for $200 kick the **** out of them. If you jammed a GTX260 into a P4 rig with a PCIe port, you've improved it dramatically, but it's still a lot worse than it could be. There gets to be a point at which doing things like skimping on the processor to save a theoretical $10 is way beyond the reasonable point of being worth it. If you're that strapped for cash, then you need to stop trying peacemeal upgrades and save your money for when you get a better overall package.

And BTW, I have no idea how you could play a game at 15FPS and not be displeased. It must look like a slideshow. Perhaps you're so used to crap hardware that you don't know what a faster framerate is like?

Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to be caustic but I had to state my piece.

 

[teklord]

I'm facing a similar situation where upgrading this old P4 system piecemeal costs similar to making what I really want, so there is almost no point to upgrading my rig anymore.

I think Tha General is used to his PIII and hasn't played on a newer one or doesn't fully realize the difference he is missing, but that is up to him to realize the difference.

 

[FusilliJerry82]

I'm facing a similar situation where upgrading this old P4 system piecemeal costs similar to making what I really want, so there is almost no point to upgrading my rig anymore.

I think Tha General is used to his PIII and hasn't played on a newer one or doesn't fully realize the difference he is missing, but that is up to him to realize the difference.

I was mostly discouraging peacemeal upgrades for a computer so hopelessly outdated that it has neither a PCIe nor AGP slot. It really depends on what the setup is in your case. If you have a later P4 system that has a PCIe slot with DDR2 RAM, you're more justified IMO to upgrade. You're not buying new into a dead technology; you could about a year down the line move that PCIe card, RAM, HD's and opticals into another motherboard with a more modern CPU.

But the Pentium 3 is deader than disco. A P3 lasted until very recently in my house, then again, it was the very last one, a 1.4Ghz Tualatin with a Slocket, in a Dell XPS t750r that served venerably from the time I got it out of the trash some time in 2004 to when I gave it to my sister when I got a laptop for school, to until she was bought a laptop for school earlier this year. It now sits in my room awaiting a use that I've failed to find for it, though I hate to have perfectly OK equipment just sit. I know that feeling, to want to take a generation of computer to the absolute limit. Until about a year ago, I was planning to build a dual PIII rig with an AGP 7900GT (which was the best AGP card at the time). But then I mulled over it and realized I'm spending almost the same if not more for all that than something worlds better for the novelty of rocking a PIII system. And that's where that plan ended.

A 500-700Mhz PIII is woefully out of date. I work for a computer donations group at school and nowadays we're donated stuff faster than that more often than slower. Seriously, look in your local Craigslist ads for people getting rid of late P4's. It's rather common. I can see putting a PCI card into a Dimension 2400 because it will tide you over. But seriously, clinging to that P3 and putting new PCI cards in it every 6 months is not far removed from scrambling to find ink ribbons for your typewriter.

 

[hrlow2]

It's not everybody has to have the biggest,fastest machine around. I use a 2.6GHz p4 in my machine with a stock onboard graphics card and they work well enough for what I ask of them.

 

[FusilliJerry82]

It's not everybody has to have the biggest,fastest machine around. I use a 2.6GHz p4 in my machine with a stock onboard graphics card and they work well enough for what I ask of them.

What do you ask of them?

 

[Tha General]

On a different note, Tha General makes everyone mad and upset on every board I find him on
Well i left Overclock.net, they whine too much, not just because of me dealing with PCI, just because i refuse to upgrade to what they have. Over at guru3d, everything is cool, and techpowerup, nobody says anything, some even give me props because i am running crysis and crysis warhead on a Pentium III. Just some forums, people complain too much tho.

Because he thinks PCI cards are all you need to game.

I never said that. I said there is nothing wrong with PCI cards and i enjoy using them. Obviously PCIE or even agp cards are more powerful then PCI. People can use whatever they like, and thats what i remind folks.

P4's suck a big one. While they're not terrible if you've bought into one when they were Intel's only show in town, to buy into one for a new PC is a horrendous idea. They're way too much money for the performance you get.

I disagree. A P4 should be able to handle any game out there at decent settings, unless something is wrong with that person's motherboard. If my Pentium III can game well with so many games, then a P4 should triple it. I think alot of people say this or that sucks, is because they hate getting 40fps or less fps in games. I never had a Pentium 4, but if my Pentium III performs the way it does, a Pentium 4 should as i said triple the performance.

So i am not understand why people say a Pentium 4 performance is bad, you make it sound like its worse then P3 performance.

And BTW, I have no idea how you could play a game at 15FPS and not be displeased. It must look like a slideshow. Perhaps you're so used to crap hardware that you don't know what a faster framerate is like?

One game for example, Jericho i have running at 1024x768 Shader on high, Texture on high, and i get a solid 15-20fps, only drops to around 9 when the action heats up, but goes back to 15-20. Do you even know what a slideshow is? Its at 1-4fps. or i say 1-3, thats a slideshow. For a game to move at 15fps, which jericho does, thats fast , very fast IMO.

I

I think Tha General is used to his PIII and hasn't played on a newer one or doesn't fully realize the difference he is missing, but that is up to him to realize the difference.

In Fear, all fear games i get between 25-60fps , thats at max settings, with my 6200, with my 2400, i get between 18-50. Timeshift i get around 30-50. I know and play games with very high fps sometimes, i know the difference lol. But at 15 or even 12, a solid 12 such as in warhead i get, its smooth. Little slowdown here and there, but it doesn't bother me.

 

[hrlow2]

to FusilliJerry82
I'm not into heavy gaming or anything that demands the power and speed of a 4core or even a dual core. My P4 does just fine for an aged socket 478. Works for me because I'm a little aged myself so we can keep up with each other.
Mostly just for things like this or light duty games that don't strain either of us too much.

 

[teklord]

If you have a later P4 system that has a PCIe slot with DDR2 RAM, you're more justified IMO to upgrade.

I don't have PCI-e and there are very few that do for the P4 or DDR2, so on paper it doesn't make sense for me to put a 100-150 dollar PCI card and 5 to 8 other components in this thing to game when I can put that money towards a dual core CPU on a PCI-E 2.0 mobo for $100-200 more. It's like you wanting to upgrade the AGP system when it costs less to just get the latest off of Newegg like I want.

Though I wouldn't have gotten a 6200 at this point, its still better than onboard Intel graphics.

That onboard graphics setup has some better stats than his PCI 6200. Waste of money IMO, that why I tell people not to bother with anything less than the Sparkle 8500GT for PCI despite the price not really equaling the performance. You are paying for the fact that there isn't any better on PCI basically.

 

[PCIGamer]

The 8400gs PCI pricepoint is just right imo. $100 for an 8500GT PCI for maybe 15-20% improvement is crazy.

btw incase people are interested, i decided to overclock my 8400gs and have been using the Crysis Benchmarking Tool for some *real* numbers. I will post them out shortly

 

[FusilliJerry82]

I disagree. A P4 should be able to handle any game out there at decent settings, unless something is wrong with that person's motherboard. If my Pentium III can game well with so many games, then a P4 should triple it. I think alot of people say this or that sucks, is because they hate getting 40fps or less fps in games. I never had a Pentium 4, but if my Pentium III performs the way it does, a Pentium 4 should as i said triple the performance.

So i am not understand why people say a Pentium 4 performance is bad, you make it sound like its worse then P3 performance.

You missed my point. A P4 is OK, but its not a smart move to buy into one new. Seriously, you're paying about ~$20-30 for a 3Ghz P4 when you could get a 1.6Ghz Celeron 420, which is comparable in performance but with much less heat and power consumption for about the same price if not maybe $10 more. Add a bit more and you're into a dual-core and the slightly added expense is well worth it.

A P4 sucks in comparison.

to FusilliJerry82
I'm not into heavy gaming or anything that demands the power and speed of a 4core or even a dual core. My P4 does just fine for an aged socket 478. Works for me because I'm a little aged myself so we can keep up with each other.
Mostly just for things like this or light duty games that don't strain either of us too much.

Well there you go, that's dandy. But these other folks are talking about running Crysis and the like with systems several years older. For the money you spent on the games, you could have really stepped up in terms of PC performance and waited a bit for the games.

I don't have PCI-e and there are very few that do for the P4 or DDR2, so on paper it doesn't make sense for me to put a 100-150 dollar PCI card and 5 to 8 other components in this thing to game when I can put that money towards a dual core CPU on a PCI-E 2.0 mobo for $100-200 more. It's like you wanting to upgrade the AGP system when it costs less to just get the latest off of Newegg like I want.

Later in the P4's life, DDR2 was fairly common and PCIe was around in fair number (basically any Intel 9xx chipset).

If you do want to move up to something better but slowly, consider a motherboard such as this one here that allows you to use either (but not both) DDR or DDR2, AGP or PCIe and any LGA775 processor. That way you could move your ram and P4 into something more modern that allows you to run a newer video card. I'd spring for the DDR2 also though, the stuff is ridiculous cheap at the moment.

478 is a dead end though. If money truly is that tight, you could sell your old stuff and spring for a cheap Celeron Dual-Core. You could in theory frankenstein the old 478 into the 775 board with one of these but you might as well use the money for that into a new processor. And they only work with some 478 processors.

The 8400gs PCI pricepoint is just right imo. $100 for an 8500GT PCI for maybe 15-20% improvement is crazy.

btw incase people are interested, i decided to overclock my 8400gs and have been using the Crysis Benchmarking Tool for some *real* numbers. I will post them out shortly

I have an 8400gs in my parent's Small form Dell Optiplex GX280. Runs fine for light gaming provided you don't expect performance you'd get from a card 5 times as much money.

 

[hrlow2]

to teklord.
Some people (who won't be named) just can't understand that some others don't see things the same way. I myself have had this machine for quite a while and I am not going to throw away an old friend just because somebody thinks its old and outdated.
I call it friend because it has never let me down by crashing, very few BSODs in its lifetime, has been EXTREMELY reliable, more than I have read about the newer CPUs coming out, and cheaper and easier to find replacement parts for. My thanks to these other people who have to have the newest"next big thing" machines for getting rid of their old P4 rigs.
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

 

[hrlow2]

And by the way, as far as the cash situation, if I wanted to, I could have a machine that could have most everybody elses for lunch, but it would be a waste of resources.I don't need that. Happy as I am.

 

[FusilliJerry82]

I don't think anyone is questioning that. My parents are on a 3Ghz P4 I got free and its flying along fine for their needs and the occasional light gaming. It's when you get into very new games where things get muddy and a machine like that won't cut it.