SpaceX successfully launches Falcon Heavy rocket for the first time

wiyosaya

TS Evangelist
so ya figure ,scrap the deal that's been in development since 2001, write off the whole works ,and start over ,good idea.

With who? what aircraft,,there's so many to choose from. s

I did a little reading and ,all I can say is wow,if the rest of the f35 is as cool as what they do allow public to view .I feel for anyone that goes in the air to face it.may as well know now ,you will never get a shot at this thing in the air.a 1/2 million dollar helmet with a complete 360 degree view outside the plane. view range is classified .but you will see the enemy long before he knows your in the air.the tech and testing of a weapon system like this ,is not going to be cheap.
you want to be the best ,gonna have to pay for that. well worth the money, Canada will be buying them as well.and if they want my vote they will stick to the plan. I'm thinking some of this craft must be designed modular so it can be upgraded to more modern tech, as it becomes available.any stupid mistakes along the way ,have the U.S. government saying ,"we aren't paying for that."so they have a tight grip on the contractor, and the aircraft is in production. it would be totally retarded to scrap the deal now.

as they say "its too big to fail". if every one thought as you suggest ,no one would ever go anywhere.sometimes you just can't cheap out.

the votes are not all in on spacex ,they have to prove how consistant they are going to be.got the tesla into space but the satellite ,did a big splash...can't be splashing with delicate cargo ,on a regular basis.that will shoot the cost up bigtime.
They almost certainly will be able to mount one of those above lasers on the f35, too. Formidable weaspons platform already - even with all its problems.
And we could create a list - Edison, Tesla and General Lee to name a few. There is a point at which you have to be able to say enough is enough, you have failed, we are starting again. But that rarely happens here, we just keep pouring in money into holes we keep making deeper so we don't have to admit a mistake. And looking at the number of failures or cost overruns from every single NASA or defense R&D project from Lockheed Martin, General Dynamics and Raytheon to name a few, I think Musk is winning at this point. Sure he has some failures but he is also getting things done cheaper, faster than anyone else so far.
Well, if Edison had said enough is enough, there might be no electric lights and people might still be getting CO poisoning from gas lights in their homes.

If the f35 could not even get off the ground at this point, it would likely be a good idea to scrap it.

However, progress is made by understanding the mistakes and shortcomings of any problem and working to rectify them. That is what they are doing with the f35, and that is what they did with Apollo 1, Challenger, and put your favorite project here that went on to become successful. Suppose NASA had not investigated why one of their probes crashed on Mars (that was a completely dumb mistake substituting lbs for kg in the software) - perhaps Mars would not even be a destination for anyone right now.

As I see it, scraping a mostly working $200bn project would meet the definition of insanity. As recent research indicates, where gratification is delayed, success is almost always present.

I am still waiting for those good reasons other than cost overruns and missed deadlines...
 
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captaincranky

TechSpot Addict
And we could create a list - Edison, Tesla and General Lee to name a few. There is a point at which you have to be able to say enough is enough, you have failed, we are starting again. But that rarely happens here, we just keep pouring in money into holes we keep making deeper so we don't have to admit a mistake. And looking at the number of failures or cost overruns from every single NASA or defense R&D project from Lockheed Martin, General Dynamics and Raytheon to name a few, I think Musk is winning at this point. Sure he has some failures but he is also getting things done cheaper, faster than anyone else so far.
So, basically what you're saying that is that Musk should be crowned, "the once ant future king of government contracts", every contract should be issued to him, and everyone else should just piss off?

Wow, you must have a laser sight attached to your tunnel vision. I guess that's why nobody here in the forum seems to know anything, save for your, of course..
 

captaincranky

TechSpot Addict
T

As I see it, scraping a mostly working $200bn project would meet the definition of insanity. As recent research indicates, where gratification is delayed, success is almost always present.

I am still waiting for those good reasons other than cost overruns and missed deadlines...
The fact notwithstanding that, "billions", are the new, "millions", anyway.
 
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senketsu

.....snip.........
Government waste argument (welfare) is not relevant at all to this conversation regarding SpaceX's achievements. you may not agree about the decision but the end result is that getting stuff to space is cheaper than it has ever been.
actually it kinda is because Musk's number one skill seems to be how to continually suck on the public tit (gov't) and when some employee actually makes something work with all those public billions Musk pops up like a Jack in the Box attributing everything from the concept to the execution to his visionary amazingness.
 
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senketsu

And we could create a list - Edison, Tesla and General Lee to name a few. There is a point at which you have to be able to say enough is enough, you have failed, we are starting again. But that rarely happens here, we just keep pouring in money into holes we keep making deeper so we don't have to admit a mistake. And looking at the number of failures or cost overruns from every single NASA or defense R&D project from Lockheed Martin, General Dynamics and Raytheon to name a few, I think Musk is winning at this point. Sure he has some failures but he is also getting things done cheaper, faster than anyone else so far.
so I guess you are not the guy who has waited 21/2 years for his Tesla car, and now since the low end model is getting put to the back of the production line, this guy will have to fork over another $7,500 (in another year or two) because he no longer qualifies for the government tax benefit, the benefit that was used to persuade him to buy the car. Or with all that public money how Tesla had a record loss in the last quarter.
From Forbes: "Tesla's CFO Abrupt Resignation Doesn't Pass The Smell Test, It is unusual to say the least that a major company’s CFO informs the CEO that he will be leaving the company the day before an earnings announcement and that he will be resigning within a few days when its 10-K is filed. It is also unusual but in some ways not too surprising that the previous CFO who had retired 15 months ago agrees to come back and that he decided this in the space of one day.
An abrupt departure by a CFO right as a company is going into a major production ramp that is critical to the viability of the company and the probable need to raise capital would not be viewed well by investors, especially given the run the stock has had."
That smell good to you?
 
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wiyosaya

TS Evangelist
actually it kinda is because Musk's number one skill seems to be how to continually suck on the public tit (gov't) and when some employee actually makes something work with all those public billions Musk pops up like a Jack in the Box attributing everything from the concept to the execution to his visionary amazingness.
It is surprising that Musk is not claiming credit for the F35 success ;) - https://www.f35.com/
 
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Boilerhog146

TS Evangelist
That's a strong indication of Failure ,right there,good time to scrap the whole works,,
I'll have one, when they have to start giving them away.
can spacex make this claim?

https://www.f35.com/about/economic-impact

Now that's impressive.
so how much of those billions ,trickle back into the economy ,I wonder?
 
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wiyosaya

TS Evangelist
That's a strong indication of Failure ,right there,good time to scrap the whole works,,
I'll have one, when they have to start giving them away.
can spacex make this claim?

https://www.f35.com/about/economic-impact

Now that's impressive.
so how much of those billions ,trickle back into the economy ,I wonder?
Lockheed Martin approached me about a month ago asking me if I wanted to work for them. I would have considered it if it had not meant an hour+ commute each way each day. However, assuming that that page is not just flowery PR, spreading all that money to 1,400 companies and nearly 200,000 workers has got to do something for the economy. That 200bn pays for something and it literally has to go to pay salaries and for material - meaning at least part of it must go back into the economy somehow.
 
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Scodd

TS Booster
I guess you're going to try and insist that wasn't personal either?

\Well, Trump does have his faults, I think I'd rather go with him leading the country, than find myself smooching the backsides of a voraciously greedy carnival barker with a massively overinflated ego, and a used up hag in a pantsuit, giving all my tax money to the ghetto.
So instead of following one you claim to be a barker, you follow a truly bigoted, smuck. But then he is a merican, he is obese, has a massively overinflated head, belly, small hands and feet, not well read, and a troll. And he probalby likes cats too.
 

Scodd

TS Booster
so I guess you are not the guy who has waited 21/2 years for his Tesla car, and now since the low end model is getting put to the back of the production line, this guy will have to fork over another $7,500 (in another year or two) because he no longer qualifies for the government tax benefit, the benefit that was used to persuade him to buy the car. Or with all that public money how Tesla had a record loss in the last quarter.
From Forbes: "Tesla's CFO Abrupt Resignation Doesn't Pass The Smell Test, It is unusual to say the least that a major company’s CFO informs the CEO that he will be leaving the company the day before an earnings announcement and that he will be resigning within a few days when its 10-K is filed. It is also unusual but in some ways not too surprising that the previous CFO who had retired 15 months ago agrees to come back and that he decided this in the space of one day.
An abrupt departure by a CFO right as a company is going into a major production ramp that is critical to the viability of the company and the probable need to raise capital would not be viewed well by investors, especially given the run the stock has had."
That smell good to you?
You knew the risk and you took it. It was your investment. Are all of your plans and dreams now on hold?
 

Boilerhog146

TS Evangelist
You knew the risk and you took it. It was your investment. Are all of your plans and dreams now on hold?
did you even read what you replied to.? not once did he mention .that he took the risk,made the investment,had his plans put on hold. I read he was speaking of someone else,but go ahead twist the posts as you see fit,your not the only one that does that here..

Trump was elected by a majority, what the minority thinks of him isn't relative. and from other countries .I'm sure his feelings are hurt after reading your post... all americans are doing quite well these days,no need to thank him..
 
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senketsu

I have no investments in anything Musk does. I find however that if you restrict yourself to the regular TV news, they only paint a nice picture of Musk with soundbites. To get the actual low down I go to financial sources. They are the ones that are willing to state numbers, the facts with of course their speculation, but they have a better grasp on business than mainstream news

edit: I guess I do feel for the guy that bought that $30,000 Tesla figuring he was going to get a $7500 rebate. 21/2 years later he still has no vehicle, it's expected to take another 9 to 18 months which means he has to pay that $7500. I can sympathize with someone in this situation. I do hope SpaceX works though
 
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Scodd

TS Booster
They almost certainly will be able to mount one of those above lasers on the f35, too. Formidable weaspons platform already - even with all its problems.

Well, if Edison had said enough is enough, there might be no electric lights and people might still be getting CO poisoning from gas lights in their homes.

If the f35 could not even get off the ground at this point, it would likely be a good idea to scrap it.

However, progress is made by understanding the mistakes and shortcomings of any problem and working to rectify them. That is what they are doing with the f35, and that is what they did with Apollo 1, Challenger, and put your favorite project here that went on to become successful. Suppose NASA had not investigated why one of their probes crashed on Mars (that was a completely dumb mistake substituting lbs for kg in the software) - perhaps Mars would not even be a destination for anyone right now.

As I see it, scraping a mostly working $200bn project would meet the definition of insanity. As recent research indicates, where gratification is delayed, success is almost always present.

I am still waiting for those good reasons other than cost overruns and missed deadlines...
What besides besides cost overruns and missed deadlines are needed. Once the project was 2 billion over budget and years behind, it should have been scraped. But instead we just kept digging the whole till be couldn't climb out. There is nothing that is too big to die. In fact I can think there are things that are so big they should die.
did you even read what you replied to.? not once did he mention .that he took the risk,made the investment,had his plans put on hold. I read he was speaking of someone else,but go ahead twist the posts as you see fit,your not the only one that does that here..

Trump was elected by a majority, what the minority thinks of him isn't relative. and from other countries .I'm sure his feelings are hurt after reading your post... all americans are doing quite well these days,no need to thank him..
Sorry, with all this activity I got the posts mixed up in the reply.

Trump didn't win by democracy, majority or popular vote. He lost by 2.5 million, or according to him by as much as 8 million if the voter fraud was as ridiculous as he claimed. Some folks just are not good with numbers. All Americans are doing quite well? You sure wouldn't think that listening to the orange Julius. Have you forgotten what he said. "middle class is dead, unemployment is closer to 40 percent (that was according to baby eating bannon), stock is huge bubble about to burst", until after the election and then that all changes. How quickly some folks forget. Just follow your leader.
 

Scodd

TS Booster
I have no investments in anything Musk does. I find however that if you restrict yourself to the regular TV news, they only paint a nice picture of Musk with soundbites. To get the actual low down I go to financial sources. They are the ones that are willing to state numbers, the facts with of course their speculation, but they have a better grasp on business than mainstream news

edit: I guess I do feel for the guy that bought that $30,000 Tesla figuring he was going to get a $7500 rebate. 21/2 years later he still has no vehicle, it's expected to take another 9 to 18 months which means he has to pay that $7500. I can sympathize with someone in this situation. I do hope SpaceX works though
I don't think Musk if flawless, that is certain. And much of what he says is speculation, but then like you said, so are the things the financial sources like Forbes are saying. But jeez, around here if you don't spit on his shadow folks think you want to have his baby. Good/bad, right/wrong is the only way some folks can see it, so that is the only way they can talk about it. As well I wish all those folks who made those investments had already seen a return by now, but it was a risk and they knew it.
 

captaincranky

TechSpot Addict
So instead of following one you claim to be a barker, you follow a truly bigoted, smuck. But then he is a merican, he is obese, has a massively overinflated head, belly, small hands and feet, not well read, and a troll. And he probalby likes cats too.
Since we're now on the topic of trolls, you fit that category "nicely". As you're a being that doesn't even know how to care for a simple house cat, what qualifies you to think or pretend to be able to demand, how the nation's budget is spent? Do you even pay taxes? Can you change a litter pan? Bigotry has its purposes, it can serve to keep you from hanging out with the wrong crowds. Hell, you don't even have enough courtesy to hit the shift key when you type, "American". I know "merican" is slang you think is clever, it really just shows your ignorance.

So, go crawl back into bed with the, "gee, what sex do I want the army to have to pay me to be if I grow up set" The simple fact of the matter is, "the Electoral College still exists", so Trump is president. We had tons of whiners come through here, who want to rewrite the Constitution, know how the Constitution should be rewritten to suit their agenda, and so forth. Welcome to the "still whimpering about the election", cry in.. If all you need to become POTUS is a massive ego and an endless flow of tripe and opinion, you should be a shoein for 2022. Unless of course, you won't be 35 by then..

And like I said before, if if weren't for Lockheed and Martin, among many other "greedy defense contractors", you'd either be "sprechen im Deutsch", or your great great grandparents might have wound up in a Nazi blast furnace, and I'd have blissful silence.here at Techspot.
 
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Boilerhog146

TS Evangelist
What besides cost overruns and missed deadlines are needed. Once the project was 2 billion over budget and years behind, it should have been scraped. But instead we just kept digging the whole till be couldn't climb out. There is nothing that is too big to die. In fact I can think there are things that are so big they should die..
by this statement ,I would just take a guess that spacex and tesla should be ,if not scrapped ,be funding its own mishaps.and the public tap turned off. Blue Origin as an example.thats the way, spacex should be forced to run, with out public funds,since it is a privately owned company.
that being said if Government never used contractors ,they would never get anything done ,the country would have been broke long ago.
oh, and Tramp is not my leader , I'm Canadian.but I like the protectionist style.
 
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Scodd

TS Booster
by this statement ,I would just take a guess that spacex and tesla should be ,if not scrapped ,be funding its own mishaps.and the public tap turned off. Blue Origin as an example.thats the way, spacex should be forced to run, with out public funds,since it is a privately owned company.
that being said if Government never used contractors ,they would never get anything done ,the country would have been broke long ago.
oh, and Tramp is not my leader , I'm Canadian.but I like the protectionist style.
But neither SpaceX or Teslsa is 200 billion dollars and 12 years behind on anything. There has to be a point at which we say, move on. It should have been at billion and 1 year. Nothing is too big to fail. How much would that have hurt? What about 5 years and 50 billion? It didn't kill us to do without it all those years. I think we would have been better off.
 
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senketsu

..............Nothing is too big to fail............
apparently some things are. According to Forbes: "Most people think that the big bank bailout was the $700 billion that the treasury department used to save the banks during the financial crash in September of 2008. But this is a long way from the truth because the bailout is still ongoing. The Special Inspector General for TARP summary of the bailout says that the total commitment of government is $16.8 trillion dollars with the $4.6 trillion already paid out. Yes, it was trillions not billions and the banks are now larger and still too big to fail. But it isn’t just the government bailout money that tells the story of the bailout. This is a story about lies, cheating, and a multi-faceted corruption which was often criminal."
But you were talking about F-35 and I know practically zilch about F-35 so cannot say anything about that.
 

Boilerhog146

TS Evangelist
But neither SpaceX or Teslsa is 200 billion dollars and 12 years behind on anything. There has to be a point at which we say, move on. It should have been at billion and 1 year. Nothing is too big to fail. How much would that have hurt? What about 5 years and 50 billion? It didn't kill us to do without it all those years. I think we would have been better off.
tesla lost just 675 million just in the last quarter of 2017.spacex lost 265 million in the last year. unless of course the info I read was wrong.most of this thread is a mix of opinion and facts,so either is good as long as we can distinguish between them.

Most know zilch about the F35 as most of it is still classified..sensor range ,view range,etc..
 
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captaincranky

TechSpot Addict
But neither SpaceX or Teslsa is 200 billion dollars and 12 years behind on anything. There has to be a point at which we say, move on. It should have been at billion and 1 year. Nothing is too big to fail. How much would that have hurt? What about 5 years and 50 billion? It didn't kill us to do without it all those years. I think we would have been better off.
So, as long as Tesla doesn't lose as much as another enterprise, those losses are OK wit you? Isn't Musk supposed to humanity's Saviour? Or is that only if we keep bailing that turd out?