SpaceX successfully launches Falcon Heavy rocket for the first time

Boilerhog146

TS Evangelist
I've linked from the pc before . in windows 7 and vista years ago. I remember I uploaded a picture of a system with the board inverted . I think windows 10 may be as guilty as any other culprit.part of my steep learning curve.
 
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Flebbert

I am starting to think no one works who posts on Techspot.

Just read all the comments and realized by about 3/4 of the way down I wanted to find out how it ended..............Turns out it didn't

...... I did like all the poo references.

Serious question though, I didn't think Elon Musk was paid anything from these companies?.... Don't worry $37k a year but spacex privately owned so if they do well his value increases.

So if https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SpaceX is true NASA did pay for the development of the Falcon 9 at about 500 million but would have cost them 4 billion to do in house but if they used outside help potentially reduced that to 1.7 billion.

They also now get launches completed at around 100 million vs the 500 odd they were spending before.

You don't like Elon Musk I get it but still NASA are saving huge amounts of money.
 

captaincranky

TechSpot Addict
I am starting to think no one works who posts on Techspot.
A few of us are old retired fogeys. That's most likely we don't share your progressive, (and forgiving) views and opinions of Mr. Musk

You don't like Elon Musk I get it but still NASA are saving huge amounts of money.
Here's the thing. You're only viewing the sound bites and headlines. As that seems to be the case, you have to figure that all he's going to turn loose to the press., is all his alleged triumphs.

We're working on the back stories, those aspects of Musk which you simply refuse to consider. Musk is a master manipulator, that much I give him.

Off the top. Tesla is constantly turning in huge losses. Musk redirects the publics view when that happens. There's another article here about how all the high end S-3 Teslas are the ones being delivered, while the plain Janes are being held back.

You automatically make the assumption that my opinion of the man comes from some unfounded, pointless hatred. Myself, and a few others are trying to expose the other side of Musk's story

You think because Musk is very rich, he must have a pure heart. It ain't necessarily so.

Let's take the loss of the satellite. Musk was out the very next denying his rocket "did nothing wrong". That could be true, or it could be a lie. I honestly think I'm more open minded about that than you. I don't know what happened, but I'm not about to take a professional bullsh!t artist's word for it. Then, since the launch of the Falcon Heavy was successful, it automatically occurs to you, that Musk must be telling the truth about ,the satellite debacle./ There's a completely negative correlation between those two events.

I want to know, who mounted the satellite, Space-X, or the maker. Did somebody forget to hook up the explosive stage separation bolts. Was there a timing error in the ship's computer, which caused the failure to separate. But you're of a mind to accept that, "it wasn't Space-x's fault, because Elon Musk said so. I find that every bit as irrational, as you find my opinions of him.

So, maybe there's a middle ground we could occupy, or maybe not. But, to the best of my knowledge, I haven't put up anything which I haven't been able to glean from Techspot articles, or links provided by other members.

There used to be an old axiom, "behind every great fortune, there was a great crime". I don't think that was conjured up from jealousy or rage at the wealthy, but rather has a strong foundation in fact.

For example, Henry Ford hired a goon squad to keep union workers out of his factories. There's two sides to the story of course, and it surely isn't fresh in my mind. You could investigate if you like.

Recently, a member posted Musk's educational background. He has a baccalaureate degree in physics. Well, in a field as complex as physics, a bachelor's degree is enough to allow a person to "talk the talk", but more than likely not be able to "walk the walk". In other words, a bachelor's degree might get you an entry level position as a lab assistant or something. You absolutely wouldn't be allowed to play with the cyclotron for quite awhile. And what Musk does, with few peers, is, "talk the talk".
 
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F

Flebbert

I am starting to think no one works who posts on Techspot.
A few of us are old retired fogeys. That's most likely we don't share your progressive, (and forgiving) views and opinions of Mr. Musk

You don't like Elon Musk I get it but still NASA are saving huge amounts of money.
Here's the thing. You only viewing the sound bites and headlines. As that seems to be the case, you have to figure that all he's going to turn loose to the press., is all his alleged triumphs.

We're working on the back stories, those aspects of Musk which you simply refuse to consider. Musk is a master manipulator, that much I give him.

Off the top. Tesla is constantly turning in huge losses. Musk redirects the publics view when that happens. There's another article here about how all the high end S-3 Teslas are the ones being delivered, while the plain Janes are being held back.

You automatically make the assumption that my opinion of the man comes from some unfounded, pointless hatred. Myself, and a few others are trying to expose the other side of Musk's story

You think because Musk is very rich, he must have a pure heart. It ain't necessarily so.

Let's take the loss of the satellite. Musk was out the very next denying his rocket "did nothing wrong". That could be true, or it could be a lie. I honestly think I'm more open minded about that than you. I don't know what happened, but I'm not about to take a professional bullsh!t artist's word for it.

I want to know, who mounted the satellite, Space, or the maker. Did somebody forget to hook up the explosive stage separation bolts. Was there a timing error in the ship's computer, which caused the failure to separate. But you're of a mind to accept that, "it wasn't Space-x's fault, because Elon Musk said so.I find that every bit as irrational, as you find my opinions of him.

So, maybe there's a middle ground we could occupy, or maybe not. But, to the best of my knowledge, I haven't put up anything which I haven't been to glean from Techspot article, or links provided by other members.

There used to be an old axiom, "behind every great fortune, there was a great crime". I don't think that was conjured up from jealousy or rage at the wealthy, but has a strong foundation in fact.

For example, Henry Ford hired a goon squad to keep union workers out of his factories. There's two sides to the story of course, and it surely isn't fresh in my mind. You could investigate if you like.

Recently a member posted Musk's educational background. He has a baccalaureate degree in physics. Well, in a field as complex as physics, a bachelor's degree is enough to allow a person to "talk the talk", but more than likely not be able to "walk the walk". In other words, a bachelor's degree might get you an entry level position as a lab assistant or something. You absolutely wouldn't be allowed to play with the cyclotron for quite awhile.
You have me misunderstood, I never said he was a great person I just think he is very good at what he does and I like rockets and electric cars. Rockets that land even better and electric cars that don't suck better still.

There is always crime behind huge fortune.... the US is built on that mantra and even Bill Gates who has done crazy amounts of good (polio) with his money is supposed to have done horrible things in the 70s - mid 90s.

Keanu is the only exception to this rule, he is immortal.

Those dollar figures for launches were NASA's numbers not SpaceX.
 

captaincranky

TechSpot Addict
You have me misunderstood, I never said he was a great person I just think he is very good at what he does and I like rockets and electric cars. Rockets that land even better and electric cars that don't suck better still.
On the point of rockets that land., keep in mind that NASA had a virtually limitless budget. Technology was way more primitive that it is now, and every part was a one of a kind. You couldn't pull parts of the shelf for a moon shot. So yeah, costs were astronomical, pardon the pun.

before you say anything, read the specs on Apollo's "guidance computer": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apollo_Guidance_Computer For god's sake, it's clocked at 2Mhz

As for "rockets that land", NASA was crippled with budget cuts. While "Musk" takes credit for that accomplishment, it was not him, but the employees of Space-X who did.

There is always crime behind huge fortune.... the US is built on that mantra and even Bill Gates who has done crazy amounts of good (polio) with his money is supposed to have done horrible things in the 70s - mid 90s.
Bill Gates is suffering from a modified form of "survivor's guilt". At least that's my probably unqualified view of his sudden dive into philanthropy. Some people feel guilty when then live through an accident which kills another(s), while Bill feels guilt from just being so stinking rich, while others are so dirt poor. How do you cure that feeling of guilt? Why give a lot of your ill gotten gains away, of course.

Keanu is the only exception to this rule, he is immortal.
Ms Christine Keeler, OTOH, is most certainly not. :eek: :D It's even more bizarre when you consider that she, as a young woman, almost single handedly brought down the British government: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Profumo_affair



Those dollar figures for launches were NASA's numbers not SpaceX.
Well, I think I explained some of that above. As to whether I managed to justify it, of that I can't be certain.

But seriously, a lot of Musk's role as a "powerful visionary", in many cases, simply comes from him pushing his way to the podium.
I mean hell, you could turn on TV SciFi in the 50' & 60's and watch rockets ride their own flame down backwards. A lot of our most advanced aircraft would barely stay in the air if it weren't for computer assisted flight controls.. You put the original concept together with now existing technologies, and Musk takes / gets, full credit for both.
 
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Scodd

TS Booster
Why are you here trying to prop up Musk, talk tech, and troll me, when you don't understand the simple process of taking care of house cats?

Male specimens of Felis Sylvestris Catus must be neutered before full sexual maturity, to be fully integrated into an indoor living situation. As it stands, after taking viable sexuality out of the equation, pure cat urine doesn't smell any worse, or possibly not as bad, as human urine. They're not like dogs, which require intensive supervision and training, to be certain they don't take their dumps in the middle of the living room carpet, while you're there playing "Dungeons & Dragons", with a half dozen of your sexually ambiguous friends from retail sales..

After the first use of a litter pan, they'll continue to use it until their demise, unless, special circumstances intervene. (Health, diabetes, dementia, simple very advanced years).

So, even if I did have an "ammonia smell issue", it would still less of a problem than being here, listening to you lap up the smell of Mr. Musk's musk.

While you're "digesting" that, try and "wrap your head around", this simple concept, some jokes aren't funny, even if you're the person telling them.
Catman. Figures. And it is normal to get really defensive when someone asks you about the ammonia smell.
But at least you admit it. That is the first step. Gosh, D&D, man that bring back memories. Would that
make your day seeing a bunch of attractive youths sitting around role playing? What an animal you are,
ruff, ruff. Would you like to see some photos? You got the carpet and living room, and game and retail
wrong, but man you were right on with the rest of it, so keen. Normally the one who doesn't think a joke
is funny is the "butt". Thanks for proving the point.
 

wiyosaya

TS Evangelist
Bedazzled and Befuddled..

some of your images ,come out like mine. I feel better now.
Yes, some of the links I tried to post to other images disappeared, and I had to do like the Captain said, try others. Sounds like it happens to everyone, possibly, on occasion.
 
F

Flebbert

You have me misunderstood, I never said he was a great person I just think he is very good at what he does and I like rockets and electric cars. Rockets that land even better and electric cars that don't suck better still.
On the point of rockets that land., keep in mind that NASA had a virtually limitless budget. Technology was way more primitive that it is now, and every part was a one of a kind. You couldn't pull parts of the shelf for a moon shot. So yeah, costs were astronomical, pardon the pun.

before you say anything, read the specs on Apollo's "guidance computer": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apollo_Guidance_Computer For god's sake, it's clocked at 2Mhz

As for "rockets that land", NASA was crippled with budget cuts. While "Musk" takes credit for that accomplishment, it was not him, but the employees of Space-X who did.

There is always crime behind huge fortune.... the US is built on that mantra and even Bill Gates who has done crazy amounts of good (polio) with his money is supposed to have done horrible things in the 70s - mid 90s.
Bill Gates is suffering from a modified form of "survivor's guilt". At least that's my probably unqualified view of his sudden dive into philanthropy. Some people feel guilty when then live through an accident which kills another(s), while Bill feels guilt from just being so stinking rich, while others are so dirt poor. How do you cure that feeling of guilt? Why give a lot of your ill gotten gains away, of course.

Keanu is the only exception to this rule, he is immortal.
Ms Christine Keeler, OTOH, is most certainly not. :eek: :D It's even more bizarre when you consider that she, as a young woman, almost single handedly brought down the British government: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Profumo_affair



Those dollar figures for launches were NASA's numbers not SpaceX.
Well, I think I explained some of that above. As to whether I managed to justify it, of that I can't be certain.

But seriously, a lot of Musk's role as a "powerful visionary", in many cases, simply comes from him pushing his way to the podium.
I mean hell, you could turn on TV SciFi in the 50' & 60's and watch rockets ride their own flame down backwards. A lot of our most advanced aircraft would barely stay in the air if it weren't for computer assisted flight controls.. You put the original concept together with now existing technologies, and Musk takes / gets, full credit for both.
Based on your logic everyone has to start from scratch without relying on any research or learning that has come before them otherwise it doesn't count??? Here I am using gravity each day like a phony.

SpaceX are the only commercial VTVL space company that I am aware of

The US government took money away from NASA because they were horribly inefficient and had failed to streamline processes which is why they created the commercial space race with government support to reduce costs....

Once again cranky you seem pissed that SpaceX have done everything the government wanted them to do..... You seem like a super bitter guy.
 

captaincranky

TechSpot Addict
....[ ]...The US government took money away from NASA because they were horribly inefficient and had failed to streamline processes which is why they created the commercial space race with government support to reduce costs....[ ]....
Well, you're not taking into account government funding removed from NASA and diverted to "social entitlements".. In other less tactful words, the democrats pumped NASA's budget into the hood where it would the most to promote the breeding of more Democratic voters. Don't believe me? The Democratic plurality in the cit of Philadelphia is 70+ %./ We can't even fund the school system without a "sugary beverage tax". Because of the massive amount of welfare recipients, Section 8 recipients, food stamp recipients, who BTW, are all Obama Democrats. Say what you like about government "waste", but I'd rather the government buy itself a couple dozen more B1-Bs and a gross of nuclear tipped cruise missiles to arm them with, than paying to rent houses free for, "drug mama's", whose only contribution to society, is teaching their following generations how to pitch crack and smack out the door without getting caught.

You still haven't gotten your head around the concept that landing the first stage booster takes away payload capacity. Do you think I was born yesterday? Quite the opposite. I sat through just about every "Space Race" launch, glued to the TV. And not retrieving the boosters, was always a topic discussed..
.Once again cranky you seem pissed that SpaceX have done everything the government wanted them to do..... You seem like a super bitter guy.
I say that Musk didn't have any personal involvement in the development of the reusable boosters, but rather the employees of Space-X had everything to do with it, and you tell me I'm down on Space-X. Musk just runs his mouth, and passes the hat,. no matter whatever business which he's he's involved.

It's doesn't seen like you can claim much in the way of reading comprehension.

Know what Flea-bite my friend, I'd rather lay claim to the the title of "bitter", as opposed to, "functionally illiterate".

And BTW, our temporary truce is over.
 
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Boilerhog146

TS Evangelist
SpaceX are the only commercial VTVL space company that I am aware of



Once again cranky you seem pissed that SpaceX have done everything the government wanted them to do..... You seem like a super bitter guy.
Jeff Bezo's Blue Origin doesn't fit the bill? as a VTVL space company?

Cranky ain't really pissed .he just doesn't like corporate greed. me neither, I also don't like Government privatizing government projects and entities .they aren't really saving that much. re-allocating is a better word. those projects belonged to the people ,that government represent ,now all the taxpayers investment over the years is gone.though, they can now buy shares. ;(

A lot of good paying careers are also gone.Good Union jobs probably being done with Scab ,unskilled labor, I see that all too often.more crashes that way..too be expected ..
 
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Flebbert

....[ ]...The US government took money away from NASA because they were horribly inefficient and had failed to streamline processes which is why they created the commercial space race with government support to reduce costs....[ ]....
Well, you're not taking into account government funding removed from NASA and diverted to "social entitlements".. In other less tactful words, the democrats pumped NASA's budget into the hood where it would the most to promote the breeding of more Democratic voters. Don't believe me? The Democratic plurality in the cit of Philadelphia is 70+ %./ We can't even fund the school system without a "sugary beverage tax". Because of the massive amount of welfare recipients, Section 8 recipients, food stamp recipients, who BTW, are all Obama Democrats. Say what you like about government "waste", but I'd rather the government buy itself a couple dozen B1-Bs and a gross of nuclear tipped cruise missles, than paying to rent houses free for, "drug mama's", teaching their following generations how to pitch crack and smack out the door without getting caught.

You still haven't gotten your head around the concept that landing the first stage booster takes away payload capacity. Do you think I was born yesterday? Quite the opposite. I sat through just about every "Space Race" launch, glued to the TV. And not retrieving the boosters, was always a topic discussed..
.Once again cranky you seem pissed that SpaceX have done everything the government wanted them to do..... You seem like a super bitter guy.
I say the Musk didn't have any personal involvement in the development of the reusable boosters, but rather the employees of Space-X had everything to do with it, and you tell me I'm down on Space-X. Musk just runs his mouth, and passes the hat,. no matter whatever business which he's he's involved.

It's doesn't seen like you can claim much in the wa of reading comprehension.

Know what Flea-bite my friend, I'd rather lay claim to the the title of "bitter", as opposed to, "functionally illiterate".

And BTW, our temporary truce is over.
Far from illiterate and very good at absorbing lots of information very quickly (my day/night job) and good at cutting through information that isn't relevant.

Government waste argument (welfare) is not relevant at all to this conversation regarding SpaceX's achievements. you may not agree about the decision but the end result is that getting stuff to space is cheaper than it has ever been.

FH was designed specifically to address the smaller payload capacity of the F9 but remain cost effective against the alternatives. I know that the Atlas provides some unique options that SpaceX are unable to do with their rockets and that's great for them.

Did you just play your hand as a trump supporter? Which seems logical based on your comments really.

You do all the work for me Cranky, I mention you seem bitter (a combination of emotions) where you go for a personal attack against my intelligence as you final argument.

Didn't know we had a truce if I am honest, and for the record I quite enjoy the banter.

For me this is not personal at all.
 

captaincranky

TechSpot Addict
...[ ]...You do all the work for me Cranky, I mention you seem bitter (a combination of emotions) where you go for a personal attack against my intelligence as you final argument.....[ ],....
So what you're trying to say is that calling someone "bitter" isn't a personal attack? Wow, that's convenient. I didn't say weren't intelligent, I said couldn't read well. And it would seem I'm correct in that assumption. After all you read your own comments the way you'd like them to be passed off, and another's in the way you choose to interpret them.

Let me spell this out for you. The same people who follow Musk's word blindly, giving him all the credit for the accomplishments of others, are the same type of of people that sit in vacuous astonishment of everything that comes out of Jimmy Swaggart's or those of his ilk's mouths,
 
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captaincranky

TechSpot Addict
..[ ]... I guess that's not personDid you just play your hand as a trump supporter? Which seems logical based on your comments really..
I guess you're going to try and insist that wasn't personal either?

\Well, Trump does have his faults, I think I'd rather go with him leading the country, than find myself smooching the backsides of a voraciously greedy carnival barker with a massively overinflated ego, and a used up hag in a pantsuit, giving all my tax money to the ghetto.
 
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captaincranky

TechSpot Addict
...[ ]....A lot of good paying careers are also gone.Good Union jobs probably being done with Scab ,unskilled labor, I see that all too often.more crashes that way..too be expected ..
That's all these "techno-punks" are, shameless cutthroat scabs, who'll play "brown nosed leapfrog" for an entry level position polishing Musk's boots. They never want to get their hand's dirty, and many of them will never pay off their student loans.
 
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wiyosaya

TS Evangelist
the end result is that getting stuff to space is cheaper than it has ever been.
The thing is, it would be anyway. Politics has had a vastly oversized voice in the NASA budget for a long, long time. NASA has been castrated by politics and has been able to accomplish little in the way of advancement beyond what they did during the Apollo program. Without that castration and political upheaval, who knows what NASA might be today.

However, NASA is still at least partly funding SpaceX because they pay for space on SpaceX rockets - so in their own way, NASA is still contributing to the advancement of space technology. NASA, though, still leads in pure research, and pure research is the source most of the technological advancements that NASA has made. If you get a chance to see Moon Machines it tells an in-detail, true-to-life story of the Apollo program and all the advancements that came from it http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1203167/

Jeff Bezo's Blue Origin doesn't fit the bill? as a VTVL space company?
Absolutely it is a VTVL space company! And, IIRC, they did it before SpaceX!
Cranky ain't really pissed .he just doesn't like corporate greed. me neither, I also don't like Government privatizing government projects and entities .they aren't really saving that much. re-allocating is a better word. those projects belonged to the people
And I would not be surprised if the three of us can agree on disliking the politics behind the funding for agencies like NASA. Unfortunately, people in politics like John Glenn are exceptionally rare. If everyone in politics were like John Glenn or Neil deGrasse Tyson, the state of space exploration would be significantly different. Instead, it seems to me that many politicians have small minds that they pander to the highest bidder even though that highest bidder could care less about anything other than inserting their proboscis into the wallets of everyone they can in any way they can. So much in politics these days seems less than meaningless to me.
 
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Scodd

TS Booster
I guess you're going to try and insist that wasn't personal either?

\Well, Trump does have his faults, I think I'd rather go with him leading the country, than find myself smooching the backsides of a voraciously greedy carnival barker with a massively overinflated ego, and a used up hag in a pantsuit, giving all my tax money to the ghetto.
If it wasn't for folks like you we might not have ghettos. Have you thought about starting a Ba'ath party here in the US? I handled a wing nut the other and made me think of you. If you want to talk about real waste and schmucks let’s talk about the Joint Strike Fighter and the Future Combat System, the Airborne Laser System, EFV, Kinetic Energy gun and that is to name just a few. All failures, all costing me hundreds and hundreds of billions of dollars, all benefiting but a few at Lockheed Martin and Boeing and GE... The same companies that have been bending us over for yeas and all you can do is complain about Musk, the young smart, successful, liberal billionaire. I bet that really hurts when you to think about how young, smart, successful, liberal and rich he is.
 

Boilerhog146

TS Evangelist
Absolutely it is a VTVL space company! And, IIRC, they did it before SpaceX!

And I would not be surprised if the three of us can agree on disliking the politics behind the funding for agencies like NASA. Unfortunately, people in politics like John Glenn are exceptionally rare. .
Bezo's using his own money from his own company ,that he started .I have way more respect for how he is going about it.

there aren't enough politicians, that came form the workforce,most grew up with silver spoon jammed in jaw,never knew having to work for a living.parasites are spawned from other parasites.only 1 way to get rid of roaches ,have to get rid of them all,or they come back..
 

wiyosaya

TS Evangelist
If it wasn't for folks like you we might not have ghettos. Have you thought about starting a Ba'ath party here in the US? I handled a wing nut the other and made me think of you. If you want to talk about real waste and schmucks let’s talk about the Joint Strike Fighter and the Future Combat System, the Airborne Laser System, EFV, Kinetic Energy gun and that is to name just a few. All failures, all costing me hundreds and hundreds of billions of dollars, all benefiting but a few at Lockheed Martin and Boeing and GE... The same companies that have been bending us over for yeas and all you can do is complain about Musk, the young smart, successful, liberal billionaire. I bet that really hurts when you to think about how young, smart, successful, liberal and rich he is.
@Scodd I've been watching laser tech for years. They had to start somewhere, and until advances in solid-state lasers came along, specifically, phase conjugation and fiber lasers, chemical lasers were the best bet for weaponized lasers, and chemical lasers are what you are talking about with the ALS. That is the nature of research, though.

However, as a result of research into high-power lasers, there now exist things like this -
There are land versions of this, too. Note that this video was posted about three-years ago.

Cry about the waste all you want, but without that R&D (NOTE: I do not agree with companies that surreptitiously screw those who contract with them), humanity would still be using stone knives and bearskins.

Why stop at the programs you mentioned, though? Why not just say NASA wastes all our money, too, and all the money they have put into R&D over the years? NASA has certainly had its share of spectacular disasters, and I would be willing to bet that they are among the few government agencies that have lost lives in the process of R&D. Here's a significant amount of video of NASA failures - https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=NASA+failures

In reality, we know little about why the programs that you mentioned failed - except what I noted about the Airborne Laser System - so we can say little without direct knowledge. However, I would rather have that R&D going on because it gives humanity the chance to learn and grow.

If you don't like the way that @captaincranky responds to you, then I suggest to reply with knowledge rather than a continuing cycle of personal attacks. If you have no other way to respond but a personal attack, then perhaps it would be better to let it go.
 
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Scodd

TS Booster
@Scodd I've been watching laser tech for years. They had to start somewhere, and until advances in solid-state lasers came along, specifically, phase conjugation and fiber lasers, chemical lasers were the best bet for weaponized lasers, and chemical lasers are what you are talking about with the ALS. That is the nature of research, though.

However, as a result of research into high-power lasers, there now exist things like this -
There are land versions of this, too. Note that this video was posted about three-years ago.

Cry about the waste all you want, but without that R&D (NOTE: I do not agree with companies that surreptitiously screw those who contract with them), humanity would still be using stone knives and bearskins.

Why stop at the programs you mentioned, though? Why not just say NASA wastes all our money, too, and all the money they have put into R&D over the years? NASA has certainly had its share of spectacular disasters, and I would be willing to bet that they are among the few government agencies that have lost lives in the process of R&D. Here's a significant amount of video of NASA failures - https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=NASA+failures

In reality, we know little about why the programs that you mentioned failed - except what I noted about the Airborne Laser System - so we can say little without direct knowledge. However, I would rather have that R&D going on because it gives humanity the chance to learn and grow.

If you don't like the way that @captaincranky responds to you, then I suggest to reply with knowledge rather than a continuing cycle of personal attacks. If you have no other way to respond but a personal attack, then perhaps it would be better to let it go.
If you are going to complain about personal attacks on the forum and especially this thread you should be complaining to everyone not just me. If the person you referred to used more real data instead of alternative facts, laced with bigoted, social and moral jive talk, things would be different. If you can’t see that as an issue here, I suggest you look again. And if you don’t like what I say of how I say it, I suggest you stop reading my notes and move on. Why stop the programs? For instance, the JSF is over 10 years behind and more than 200 billion over budget. 200 BILLION. I can’t think of a better reason than that. They failed. Period. Let’s try something else and see if we can get some of that money back. That has to be the single biggest defense development project scam in world history. NASA is a failure as well when you look at cost vs outcome. And I am not crying about anything. In reality I know more than you think about why some of those programs failed. Sure the R&D can help but not wasted R&D. The level of waste and fraud in those program is enormous, on-going, ever growing and a result of same good old boy, I'll do you if you you'll do me that got us in the pickle we are in. The poor attitude, narrow focus of so many former gens, the near do wells that have been running the show for so long in the world and even running their clap traps on forums like this are what actually inspire folks like Musk, thank goodness. Luckily their time is almost up. And the new generation with leaders like Musk, who are educated more on fact rather than folklore and cult based myths, get to start running the show.
 

wiyosaya

TS Evangelist
If you are going to complain about personal attacks on the forum and especially this thread you should be complaining to everyone not just me. If the person you referred to used more real data instead of alternative facts, laced with bigoted, social and moral jive talk, things would be different. If you can’t see that as an issue here, I suggest you look again. And if you don’t like what I say of how I say it, I suggest you stop reading my notes and move on. Why stop the programs? For instance, the JSF is over 10 years behind and more than 200 billion over budget. 200 BILLION. I can’t think of a better reason than that. They failed. Period. Let’s try something else and see if we can get some of that money back. That has to be the single biggest defense development project scam in world history. NASA is a failure as well when you look at cost vs outcome. And I am not crying about anything. In reality I know more than you think about why some of those programs failed. Sure the R&D can help but not wasted R&D. The level of waste and fraud in those program is enormous, on-going, ever growing and a result of same good old boy, I'll do you if you you'll do me that got us in the pickle we are in. The poor attitude, narrow focus of so many former gens, the near do wells that have been running the show for so long in the world and even running their clap traps on forums like this are what actually inspire folks like Musk, thank goodness. Luckily their time is almost up. And the new generation with leaders like Musk, who are educated more on fact rather than folklore and cult based myths, get to start running the show.
No one will ever develop something from the ground up without failure. You might as well say, because Musk had several failures on the road to where he is, Musk is a failure. Failure is an intrinsic part of R&D, and in starting totally over, with the JSF, it is entirely possible that it will take yet another 10-years as an initial estimate with years of overruns.

So how about elaborating on why JSF should be scrapped? Did the project undergo feature creep? Was what they were trying to accomplish not possible with existing technology such that they had to invent their own?

Please, educate us on the specific reasons that the JSF is a failure - and in this context, overbudget and beyond deadlines are not reasons, they are symptoms of those reasons.
 
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Scodd

TS Booster
No one will every develop something from the ground up without failure. You might as well say, because Musk had several failures on the road to where he is, Musk is a failure.
And we could create a list - Edison, Tesla and General Lee to name a few. There is a point at which you have to be able to say enough is enough, you have failed, we are starting again. But that rarely happens here, we just keep pouring in money into holes we keep making deeper so we don't have to admit a mistake. And looking at the number of failures or cost overruns from every single NASA or defense R&D project from Lockheed Martin, General Dynamics and Raytheon to name a few, I think Musk is winning at this point. Sure he has some failures but he is also getting things done cheaper, faster than anyone else so far.
 

Boilerhog146

TS Evangelist
If you are going to complain about personal attacks on the forum and especially this thread you should be complaining to everyone not just me. If the person you referred to used more real data instead of alternative facts, laced with bigoted, social and moral jive talk, things would be different. If you can’t see that as an issue here, I suggest you look again. And if you don’t like what I say of how I say it, I suggest you stop reading my notes and move on. Why stop the programs? For instance, the JSF is over 10 years behind and more than 200 billion over budget. 200 BILLION. I can’t think of a better reason than that. They failed. Period. Let’s try something else and see if we can get some of that money back. That has to be the single biggest defense development project scam in world history. NASA is a failure as well when you look at cost vs outcome. And I am not crying about anything. In reality I know more than you think about why some of those programs failed. Sure the R&D can help but not wasted R&D. The level of waste and fraud in those program is enormous, on-going, ever growing and a result of same good old boy, I'll do you if you you'll do me that got us in the pickle we are in. The poor attitude, narrow focus of so many former gens, the near do wells that have been running the show for so long in the world and even running their clap traps on forums like this are what actually inspire folks like Musk, thank goodness. Luckily their time is almost up. And the new generation with leaders like Musk, who are educated more on fact rather than folklore and cult based myths, get to start running the show.
so ya figure ,scrap the deal that's been in development since 2001, write off the whole works ,and start over ,good idea.

With who? what aircraft,,there's so many to choose from. s

I did a little reading and ,all I can say is wow,if the rest of the f35 is as cool as what they do allow public to view .I feel for anyone that goes in the air to face it.may as well know now ,you will never get a shot at this thing in the air.a 1/2 million dollar helmet with a complete 360 degree view outside the plane. view range is classified .but you will see the enemy long before he knows your in the air.the tech and testing of a weapon system like this ,is not going to be cheap.
you want to be the best ,gonna have to pay for that. well worth the money, Canada will be buying them as well.and if they want my vote they will stick to the plan. I'm thinking some of this craft must be designed modular so it can be upgraded to more modern tech, as it becomes available.any stupid mistakes along the way ,have the U.S. government saying ,"we aren't paying for that."so they have a tight grip on the contractor, and the aircraft is in production. it would be totally retarded to scrap the deal now.

as they say "its too big to fail". if every one thought as you suggest ,no one would ever go anywhere.sometimes you just can't cheap out.

the votes are not all in on spacex ,they have to prove how consistant they are going to be.got the tesla into space but the satellite ,did a big splash...can't be splashing with delicate cargo ,on a regular basis.that will shoot the cost up bigtime.
 
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captaincranky

TechSpot Addict
If it wasn't for folks like you we might not have ghettos. Have you thought about starting a Ba'ath party here in the US? I handled a wing nut the other and made me think of you. If you want to talk about real waste and schmucks let’s talk about the Joint Strike Fighter and the Future Combat System, the Airborne Laser System, EFV, Kinetic Energy gun and that is to name just a few. All failures, all costing me hundreds and hundreds of billions of dollars, all benefiting but a few at Lockheed Martin and Boeing and GE... The same companies that have been bending us over for yeas and all you can do is complain about Musk, the young smart, successful, liberal billionaire. I bet that really hurts when you to think about how young, smart, successful, liberal and rich he is.
Instead of trolling me, why don't you toddle along and rectify all those issues? After all, the way you're running your yap you'd think you're the next Musk, instead of one of his most devout groupies.

After all, "Musk" has successfully landed booster rockets. With you at his side, shoe polish and toilet paper in hand, I'm sure the joint strike fighters's mountains of problems would immediately turn into into tiny ant hills, for which he would take full credit, leaving you there, with just a very brown nose, and stories to tell of his greatness.

FWIW, and as you're really too ignorant to realize it, many of our greatest aviation triumphs have come from Lockheed, the SR-71 lineage springs immediately. Oh, and the P-38 "Lightning", without which, you might be speaking German or even Russian.

Wouldn't that have be a circus if Musk were alive back then, trying to replace those turbocharged Allisons, with electric motors. After all, would wouldn't want to pollute the air over Germany with exhaust from our bomber escorts, now would we?

Oh wait, somebody else wouldn't have invented the lithium battery yet for him to capitalize on, now would they?

But what could I really expect from someone so illiterate and lost in own cyber bullsh!t, as you appear to be.

Isn't that what Musk is doing, "bending his investors over, to sell all the original runs of Tesla's to movie stars wishing to crow about how, "environmentally concerned", they've become? Tesla loses money virtually every quarter, while Musk scampers off to crow about how "he's"going to have a spacesuit commissioned for his Martian colony".

Gee, as diversionary tactics go, the next thing he's likely to be doing, is pulling rabbits out of a black top hat, as meanwhile you divert the audiences attention, dressed in a white rhinestone encrusted leotard.

But to get the ball rolling, why don't you cut Musk a check for as much of.your life savings as you can spare, toward his efforts in boring tunnels under LA, so that he can get home from work sooner.

Let's hope Musk doesn't need a prostate exam anytime soon, the doctor is liable to poke your eye out.
 
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