The Karma System - trial phase
- Thread starter RealBlackStuff
- Start date
momok
Posts: 2,127 +6
Hi
I believe the karma system is a good idea, however, I feel -
The calculations for karma should be reconsidered. ie Karma altering numbers should not be fully based on the user's current karma. If a user with very high karma (100+) decides to rate a post to a new member, the new member would (correct me if I am wrong) end up getting alot of karma wouldn't he? That wouldn't be fair, and this only provides disincentive to give karma.
A probable way to correct this would be to allow for user choice in the amount of karma to give, and add a cost to his own karma for each karma point beyond say, 10? This would lower the variance for karma-point-total alterations.
The last thing I can think of: IMO, I find this system to be similar to a financial market. Efficient markets (efficient in adjustment of prices of an asset, in this case karma ratings of a user) depend on the input of all individuals within the market.
Thus, I feel we should give all users the minimum ability to give +/- 1 karma point per day/week (this works a little like income) In such a way, this power would not be retained in the hands of a select few, but more balanced throughout the entire populace. This would prove to be a more democratic and meritocratic system. On top of that, we can add differentiating levels for the cap on amount of karma points each user can give per day. This could be dependant on a combination of factors, like the length of time the user has been registered in techspot, the number of posts that he/she has made and the amount of karma he/she has.
I believe the karma system is a good idea, however, I feel -
The calculations for karma should be reconsidered. ie Karma altering numbers should not be fully based on the user's current karma. If a user with very high karma (100+) decides to rate a post to a new member, the new member would (correct me if I am wrong) end up getting alot of karma wouldn't he? That wouldn't be fair, and this only provides disincentive to give karma.
A probable way to correct this would be to allow for user choice in the amount of karma to give, and add a cost to his own karma for each karma point beyond say, 10? This would lower the variance for karma-point-total alterations.
The last thing I can think of: IMO, I find this system to be similar to a financial market. Efficient markets (efficient in adjustment of prices of an asset, in this case karma ratings of a user) depend on the input of all individuals within the market.
Thus, I feel we should give all users the minimum ability to give +/- 1 karma point per day/week (this works a little like income) In such a way, this power would not be retained in the hands of a select few, but more balanced throughout the entire populace. This would prove to be a more democratic and meritocratic system. On top of that, we can add differentiating levels for the cap on amount of karma points each user can give per day. This could be dependant on a combination of factors, like the length of time the user has been registered in techspot, the number of posts that he/she has made and the amount of karma he/she has.
momok
Posts: 2,127 +6
Perhaps I was misunderstood. I meant that we should be allowed to choose how much to give up to our level cap, but for every karma point beyond an abritrarily set number, for eg, 10, karma point costs start to kick in.
The whole point of this would be to lower the variance, like I mentioned earlier, of shifts in the karma point totals of individual users.
(edit)
I just realised that some aspects of my suggestions may not be fully feasible (income karma)
This would be bring about inflation, and since such a rate of inflation would be too tedious to capture, this makes the valuation of karma ratings for users difficult, which defeats the point of karma ratings.
Perhaps something else could be done to achieve the same objective.
God I need my sleep. -.-
beef_jerky4104
Posts: 782 +3
Julio said:
Great fix! Thanks Julio.
I understand that not everybody has to be excited about the implementation of the Karma system. I must reinforce the fact that the reason we are all here is to share our passion for technology.
That said, there is no reason for not trying to improve our community through different mediums, and in a worst case scenario you can simply ignore whichever feature you don't want to get involved with (and not getting punished as some did before the recent changes).
I want to thank everybody for their feedback. There were some good ideas mentioned about how karma should be calculated or given, however I should note that we are using a built-in system in vbulletin that has been just slightly modified to suit our needs.
Last but not least, let's do remember that "earning karma" should not be the ultimate goal for members, but helping, learning and sharing information. With that in mind, I will keep newly registered members without any karma power. The only way they can earn it is through positive feedback from other members (fastest way), otherwise through posting and being around for a little while longer than a month or two.
This will also prevent abuse, and finally will make sense in the long run that those users with an established presence here may end up with solid karma levels that won't go with a click or two.
Next change pending: new icon for identifying the karma feature (probably a thumbs up/down icon?), I'm open to all suggestions or recommendations.
That said, there is no reason for not trying to improve our community through different mediums, and in a worst case scenario you can simply ignore whichever feature you don't want to get involved with (and not getting punished as some did before the recent changes).
I want to thank everybody for their feedback. There were some good ideas mentioned about how karma should be calculated or given, however I should note that we are using a built-in system in vbulletin that has been just slightly modified to suit our needs.
Last but not least, let's do remember that "earning karma" should not be the ultimate goal for members, but helping, learning and sharing information. With that in mind, I will keep newly registered members without any karma power. The only way they can earn it is through positive feedback from other members (fastest way), otherwise through posting and being around for a little while longer than a month or two.
This will also prevent abuse, and finally will make sense in the long run that those users with an established presence here may end up with solid karma levels that won't go with a click or two.
Next change pending: new icon for identifying the karma feature (probably a thumbs up/down icon?), I'm open to all suggestions or recommendations.
thats a good idea. I don't have a particular icon to suggest, but I still have a suggestion.
The icon should be something a completely new member would be able to recognize, and say that this persons' posts could be trusted or not. Given that there are already so many icons around (including the thumbs icon) in threads, next to threads, and so on, we'd have to find something that is unique, and immediately screams "You can trust what I write!!".
At the same time, the negative karma holders shouldn't have something that screams "IGNORE ME!!", but instead say something in the lines of "I might have something to say, but not everything I've said before has been good".
Icon choosing just got that much harder
The icon should be something a completely new member would be able to recognize, and say that this persons' posts could be trusted or not. Given that there are already so many icons around (including the thumbs icon) in threads, next to threads, and so on, we'd have to find something that is unique, and immediately screams "You can trust what I write!!".
At the same time, the negative karma holders shouldn't have something that screams "IGNORE ME!!", but instead say something in the lines of "I might have something to say, but not everything I've said before has been good".
Icon choosing just got that much harder
howard_hopkinso
Posts: 21,238 +17
It means the person who gave you karma, doesn`t have any karma altering power. This could be because they have a negative karma points total or because their a new member. I have edited the less than useful comments the ***** has given you. The member concerned won`t be giving anyone else any comments as I`ve just banned him.
Regards Howard
Regards Howard
kitty500cat
Posts: 1,391 +6
So, I have 3 entries under my 'Karma' heading, 1 grey, 1 green, 1 red.
My Karma is -12, apparently from a post where the person admits I helped steer them to a possible fix and only one other poster was involved.
Now, the person I helped is new so can't post positive, the person who obviously dunned me is a high-poster who disliked my post without recourse to discussion.
Since your 'rules' offer no way to contest the receipt of a minus-Karma, I have opted to follow someone's earlier advice and ignore it all together.
Thus, my Signature.
My Karma is -12, apparently from a post where the person admits I helped steer them to a possible fix and only one other poster was involved.
Now, the person I helped is new so can't post positive, the person who obviously dunned me is a high-poster who disliked my post without recourse to discussion.
Since your 'rules' offer no way to contest the receipt of a minus-Karma, I have opted to follow someone's earlier advice and ignore it all together.
Thus, my Signature.
kitty500cat
Posts: 1,391 +6
It only subtracted two points for me, so big deal
I still think, however, that people should have to say why they disapprove of the post.
Maybe somebody did find something genuinely wrong with my post, but it would have been nice to have known what was wrong with it.
I still think, however, that people should have to say why they disapprove of the post.
Maybe somebody did find something genuinely wrong with my post, but it would have been nice to have known what was wrong with it.
T
tifc8lraz
Lol Nodsu :unch: ! I think that in the comments, if the member wrote something not right or of bad quality, one should write a suggestion like, "Don't be so angry" or "Research more".
Off Topic:
What exactly does your signature say ?
Off Topic:
What exactly does your signature say
?kitty500cat
Posts: 1,391 +6
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=2134856&dopt=Abstract
Whatever that page is trying to say
Whatever that page is trying to say
T
tifc8lraz
Ow....I had to think !
!
SNGX1275
Posts: 10,615 +467
Whenever I approve or disapprove of a post, I write a comment. Apparently a lot of people aren't doing this. Forcing someone to write a comment wouldn't work either though because lots of people will just type some gibberish so it will submit. Getting mods involved in approving or disapproving is a bad idea, we already spend more time than most people here, adding another task for us to do isn't going to go over well with us
How good this system is, is largely dependent on its user base.
How good this system is, is largely dependent on its user base.
KingCody
Posts: 964 +8
I like the thumbs up/down idea. my only suggestion beyond that would be to change the text that displays when you hover the mouse over it from "add to _____'s karma" to something like "was this post helpful?" I think that would help shift the focus [from the poster] to the post itselfJulio said:
:wave:
KingCody said:
I like the idea. A possible suggestion I had was to only allow those who have posted in the thread to give +/- karmas only.
Also I think it would be a good idea to remove the karma option in the Introduction and Meeting Spot forums too.
EDIT: A possible addition to KingCody's suggestions might be to rate the post out of 5 that way each member may get an average score?
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