The RTX 4080 could launch with up to 40% less stock than the RTX 4090

waclark

Posts: 698   +443
The sad thing is, all reviews of the new 7900's will be the same "This GPU sucks because of RT, buy nvidia yo!".

See how ALL media ignored and trashed both the 6900 and the 6950 XT rasterization prowess because they manipulated everyone towards the stupid RT hype.
Not really seeing that at all regarding the recent AMD GPUs. Mostly, I am seeing people bashing Nvidia and theorizing on possible AMD performance. In addition, most commentors are pointing to the AMD value with last gen GPUs getting discounted. The whole AMD play here is "we're not as good, but we're cheaper". At this stage of the game, that's a pretty good message, although $900 and $1000 GPUs are not exactly what you would call a value purchase.
 

NeoMorpheus

Posts: 1,393   +2,958
Not really seeing that at all regarding the recent AMD GPUs. Mostly, I am seeing people bashing Nvidia and theorizing on possible AMD performance. In addition, most commentors are pointing to the AMD value with last gen GPUs getting discounted. The whole AMD play here is "we're not as good, but we're cheaper". At this stage of the game, that's a pretty good message, although $900 and $1000 GPUs are not exactly what you would call a value purchase.
Lets see, said the blind man...

I am simply going by what I have observed since the 3090, 3090Ti, 4090, 6900 and 6950 XT launched.

At this point, I only trust Steven reviews, but even him seem to only do reviews with 3090Ti and now 4090, except for one or another there and worse, he was one of the few reviewers that didnt push the RT hype before, yet now that seems to be a priority.

I sincerely hope that you are right and that I end up being completely wrong, because the drones outnumber the smart ones a million to one at this point.
 

Avro Arrow

Posts: 3,028   +3,919
TechSpot Elite
Only makes sense for Nvidia. This is happening for one of two reasons:

1) They can't compete with the lower priced 79xx cards from AMD, so they don't want to waste stock/time/money on this venture
You could be right. I have the same thoughts about the RX 7900 XT. It's only there to make the XTX look better.
2) They think they can force people into buying the way overpriced 4090 by limiting the amount of 4080s.
Well, if someone's stupid enough to pay $1200 for a video card when there's a glut of video cards on the market, they deserve every bit of fleecing that nVidia can give them.
I'm hoping AMD's 7900s just crush the 4080 card(s). I know they're not designed to compete at the very top with the 4090, but if they can walk all over Nvidia's 4080, that would be amazing.
They just might do more than that:
The 4080 seems to just have bad Karma surrounding it.

Even Nvidia fanboys on the usual forum sites are tearing it new one for the appalling (non) value it represents to their current 3070/80 cards.
Wait, nVidia fanboys are crying about a LACK of value???
hysterical-laughter.gif

Literally no one thinks its worth the $1200 price tag and hardly any of them are saying they're going to get one.
Isn't it funny how they say that 4090 IS worth $1600, but the 4080 ISN'T worth $1200?
..and the 4090 despite its ludicrous price, is at least seen to be a worthy upgrade for 3090 owners.
That's because the people who buy 3090s and the people who buy 4090s are the same people. Yanno, the ones who think that a video card ending in "90" is a penis extension!
Of course. NV gotta has them margins.
Oh yeah, I bet that they call the Grand Canyon a margin too! :laughing:
No demand? No worries. Let's create the shortage ourselves. After all, it's proven that people will be willing to pay for a GPU.
It's true! We, the techspot crowd, should all become scalpers for overpriced nVidia cards. After all, those fools who buy them have already demonstrated that they'll pay anything!
I couldn't care less. This Nvidia generation is absolutely unimportant to me.
I couldn't care less either because NO nVidia generation is important to me. :laughing:
They can go with a paper launch also, we are used to this from past years.
When cards are this overpriced, I believe that paper launches are preferable.
One thing I think is certain though is that Nvidia will have to lower the price of the 4080 next year to remain competitive. That will bring down the entire Ampere line up as well, what remains of it. But that was always going to happen. The $1200 price tag was never meant to remain.
I agree. The only reason that nVidia is charging this is because nobody is buying the last-gen. This is because every techtuber you look at is saying not to buy nVidia cards because the Radeons absolutely annihilate them at the same price point. Last-gen's Radeons are selling like crazy but the last-gen GeForce cards are already gathering dust.
3) Old 3000 gen gpus are still on the shelves and waiting.
Yup, and they'll keep waiting because there's literally no reason to buy anything below the RTX 3080. Sure, the 3080 is overpriced like the rest of them but at least for those weirdos who are obsessed with RT, the 3080 is usable for RT. The cards below it really aren't so everyone in the market for a card below the 3080 is buying a Radeon instead.
The RTX 4080 16GB has a cheaper $1,199 MSRP"

Cheap?? LMAO!!

nGreedia throws a few hundred 4090s and 4080s to the rabid crowd and scalpers, and then their PR shills claim the 4xxx series are selling so well that they sold out very quickly!!
You're being very polite to call them PR shills. I call them "grifters". :laughing:
It's been an odd launch with the AD102. If one goes back to the GA102, that chip was initially launched in four products: the A6000, the A40, the RTX 3090, and the RTX 3080 (in timeline order). The workstation cards didn't go out for sale, though, until after the consumer models.

The AD102's been launched to just one product: the RTX 4090. That's it. Sure the AD103 is just around the corner, but there doesn't seem to be much difference with the one too (I.e. just the RTX 4080).

While Nvidia can afford to sustain a big drop in revenue for a while (they're not exactly short on cash), this whole new generation of GPUs from them has been decidedly odd.
They appear to be trying to get as RTX 4090s sold as possible before the competition arrives and forces them to cut prices. They're literally trying to screw as many of their customers as hard as possible before they're forced to back off on pricing.
Exactly. MLID also said that AMD RX6000 cards would be in plentiful supply upon launch - which turned out to be completely wrong.
Yeah but that's not his fault. AMD really did tell people that there would be a tonne of supply. Remember the tweets from Frank Azor? IIRC, RedGamingTech and Graphically Challenged both said the same thing.
The 4080 16GB should have not started for price greater than $799. TBH, it is really an equivalent of RTX 4070ti with 4080 badge plastered on it if you go by bus width.
You're preaching to the choir here.
Sometimes I feel Nvidia and AMD should be investigated for price fixing considering how smoothly AMD’s lineup will fill up $999 and below price points where Nvidia doesn’t have any latest-gen card yet.
It's only smooth because nVidia went first and AMD of course chose the most strategic pricing to combat nVidia. They're not in cahoots, not by a longshot. Besides, since when does the US government actually DO anything when US corporations are making money hand-over-fist? If you want price-fixing, just look at the petrochemical companies getting away with it daily.
Nvidia even if they make profits, it’s at a cost of “loss of face”, seen as greedy scumbag corporation, PR nightmare, unethical business tactics and what not. All this accumulated ill-will will only take them little ahead in short term. But in long term, they might burn out due to their dumb pricing.
You must be new because nVidia has been pulling crap just like this for longer than a decade. Back in 2008, they were so bad that I flatly refused to buy any more GeForce cards. I've been Radeon-only since the HD 4870. People who buy nVidia will continue to do so no matter what nVidia does to them. Basically, every gamer who owns an nVidia card is a part of the problem because it is they who are supporting nVidia even though they know damn well what kind of company that nVidia is.

It's both hilarious and sad at the same time.
Awesome!

Now I can spend $1200 to play some benchmarks at about 50% faster than a 3080 10GB! I'm sold Nvidia! I'm sold!
Yeah, the RTX 3080 that cost more than the RX 6800 XT, a card with 60% more VRAM and why? Because people like Steve and Tim said that DLSS and RT were more important than 6GB more VRAM (as they put it) "Right now". So they were basically advocating for people to be short-sighted and not look down the road at how much VRAM would be needed in the future. My R9 Furies had great GPU horsepower but the fact that they only had 4GB of VRAM was their Achilles' heel. Even though it was HBM, it was still unable to play some games at high settings because they only had 4GB.
I'm going to sit outside of Micro Center right now and wait for this overpriced piece of sh!t. I mean, awesomely priced and well thought of gaming hardware that I can't live without.
Hell yeah! As some other "person" said on this site, these cards are very necessary. :laughing:
 
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Avro Arrow

Posts: 3,028   +3,919
TechSpot Elite
There's no way for the masses to "smarten up" the trend is "Idiocracy" reloaded.
Then the Rock will be president and Shyla Stylez vice president.
Well, the Rock, sure... but Shyla Stylez can't because she's Canadian. Well...she was Canadian, because sadly, she's also dead.
 

Avro Arrow

Posts: 3,028   +3,919
TechSpot Elite
Lets see, said the blind man...

I am simply going by what I have observed since the 3090, 3090Ti, 4090, 6900 and 6950 XT launched.

At this point, I only trust Steven reviews, but even him seem to only do reviews with 3090Ti and now 4090, except for one or another there and worse, he was one of the few reviewers that didnt push the RT hype before, yet now that seems to be a priority.

I sincerely hope that you are right and that I end up being completely wrong, because the drones outnumber the smart ones a million to one at this point.
Just keep watching Jim from AdoredTV and you'll be a much better-informed person for it. The man is an absolute genius.
 

waclark

Posts: 698   +443
Lets see, said the blind man...

I am simply going by what I have observed since the 3090, 3090Ti, 4090, 6900 and 6950 XT launched.

At this point, I only trust Steven reviews, but even him seem to only do reviews with 3090Ti and now 4090, except for one or another there and worse, he was one of the few reviewers that didnt push the RT hype before, yet now that seems to be a priority.

I sincerely hope that you are right and that I end up being completely wrong, because the drones outnumber the smart ones a million to one at this point.
Your smarmy comments aside....

You started your post with "all reviews of the new 7900's will be the same "This GPU sucks because of RT, buy nvidia yo!" So let's stay on topic here and talk about current events not past history. I can point you to numerous YouTube videos from Daniel Owen, UFD Tech, Gamer Meld, Linus Tech Tips, Moore's Law is Dead and even JayzTwoCents which all tend to favor AMD, contingent upon actual benchmarks.

It's clear AMD will not win RT and it's clear that you don't prioritize RT for that reason. It's also clear that you are biased against Nvidia and even if Nvidia had a clear winner, you wouldn't accept it. Most of the rest of us are trying to make the best, informed decision based on actual data and not marketing slides from AMD or Nvidia. So, yeah, you are the blind man here because you only see one outcome. We see many possibilities.
 

MarcusNumb

Posts: 96   +155
Chill guys, I don't like NVIDIA neither but it seems like we have too much hate and bias here. Only time will tell whether NVIDIA will pay for their greed or not. I do hope that AMD will gain at least 5 more % next year in GPU market, they deserve it.
 

brucek

Posts: 1,284   +1,900
Is Nvidia just trying to show off now? "We've been beating AMD easily for generations, so this time let's see if we can do it while being insultingly over-priced AND not even in stock (oh and also not even bothering to update to current DisplayPort version").

If AMD doesn't gain market share here I'm really going to pull my hair out...
 

godrilla

Posts: 574   +309
This image is all you need to know about the 4080 notice the dlss 3.0 performance is more than 2 x for the 4080s while the 4090 dlss performance is 1.7x. While native resolution performance is double the performance 4090/4080. This is to make the 4080 seem better than it really is. If you want to compare performance look at the native performance it's half of the 4090.
From what it looks like even the cheaper 7900xt should outperform the 4080 in rasterization at $900.
I believe what will move the market is the rt rdna3 performance. If AMD comes on top of Ampere in rt then Nvidia will have no choice but to lower the price of the 3090ti below $900( putting pressure on everything lower including rdna 2 cards). If the 7900xtx is close to 4080 in rt then expect the 4080 to drop at least 20% when Ampere stock dries up. Nvidia is pricing tbe 4080 based on dlss 3.0 which mostly no one wants in it's current stage.
https://static.techspot.com/images2/news/bigimage/2022/10/2022-10-12-image-j_1100.webp
 

passingposeidon

Posts: 23   +45
Only makes sense for Nvidia. This is happening for one of two reasons:

1) They can't compete with the lower priced 79xx cards from AMD, so they don't want to waste stock/time/money on this venture

2) They think they can force people into buying the way overpriced 4090 by limiting the amount of 4080s.

I'm hoping AMD's 7900s just crush the 4080 card(s). I know they're not designed to compete at the very top with the 4090, but if they can walk all over Nvidia's 4080, that would be amazing.

You're missing the 3rd reason - they want to clear out their inventory of 3xxx cards. It is well known that they have excess stock.
 

bviktor

Posts: 1,042   +1,518
Don't think for a minute that AMD doesn't have them margins too. They do.
Higher end products ALWAYS have higher margins. AMD doesn't have an RTX 4090 equivalent, so no, they don't have such margins.

Not that the 4090 would sell well. It's a purely greed product from Team Green. Makes no sense from a technical POV, makes no sense from a financial POV.
 

Neatfeatguy

Posts: 1,006   +1,835
Higher end products ALWAYS have higher margins. AMD doesn't have an RTX 4090 equivalent, so no, they don't have such margins.

Not that the 4090 would sell well. It's a purely greed product from Team Green. Makes no sense from a technical POV, makes no sense from a financial POV.
I'd venture to guess that AMD could easily knock $300 off the 7900 cards and still make good money on it.

Look at the 6900XT. MSRP started at $1000. Now AMD announced the cards to be priced at $679. Sure, they're looking to try and move out what's left of the 6900 inventory, but they're not going to take a wash on the product, they're still making a decent enough profit.

Sure, AMD won't have as big of a cushion as Nvidia might with how overly priced everyone knows their lineup is, but they've got plenty of room to move on the pricing without hurting their pocketbook.
 

MaxSmarties

Posts: 531   +303
This is Nvidia playing dirty game again. There is no technical reason to have the 4080 with less stock compared to the top tier model. This is just another way for Nvidia to keep inflated prices.
I really really hope this time they will sell NONE of this nonsense.
 

waclark

Posts: 698   +443
Higher end products ALWAYS have higher margins. AMD doesn't have an RTX 4090 equivalent, so no, they don't have such margins.

Not that the 4090 would sell well. It's a purely greed product from Team Green. Makes no sense from a technical POV, makes no sense from a financial POV.
Just because they don't have a card that competes with the 4090 doesn't mean they aren't getting similar margins. You can bet that AMD is looking to make some money and will price for optimum margins.
 

Avro Arrow

Posts: 3,028   +3,919
TechSpot Elite
Chill guys, I don't like NVIDIA neither but it seems like we have too much hate and bias here. Only time will tell whether NVIDIA will pay for their greed or not. I do hope that AMD will gain at least 5 more % next year in GPU market, they deserve it.
There's no way I'm going to chill, I've seen nVidia doing this and getting away with it since 2007. When I say that I'm an nVidia hater, I'm not exaggerating. Same goes for Intel.
 

NeoMorpheus

Posts: 1,393   +2,958
It's clear AMD will not win RT and it's clear that you don't prioritize RT for that reason.
No need to twist my words, I have clearly said it many times and others have agreed, RT doesnt provide anything useful for the performance hit required. I dont care who is the RT king, I simply dont want to be forced to pay for something that is not there yet.
Proper RT capable hardware AND games are easily 2 gens away, so again, I dont need to worry about a non existent or useful feature.
It's also clear that you are biased against Nvidia
That you got right and my reasons are clear and expressed elsewhere in here.
and even if Nvidia had a clear winner, you wouldn't accept it.
Winners on what? This is the problem with the weak minded drones these days, you dont need to win, you just need a tool that does what you need and in my case, AMD provides what I need and add peace of mind that I am not supporting a company that has clearly shown they dont have their best interest for me.
We see many possibilities.
Glad you mentioned all that, because the possibilities are the same, keep giving nvidia money and you will keep getting GPUs for US$2K.

Perhaps that is a concept that you cannot comprehend. 🤷‍♂️
 
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Avro Arrow

Posts: 3,028   +3,919
TechSpot Elite
No need to twist my words, I have clearly said it many times and others have agreed, RT doesnt provide anything useful for the performance hit required. I dont care who is the RT king, I simply dont want to be forced to pay for something that is not there yet.
You know Neo, when someone starts going off about the "miracle" of RT (good thing that I'm typing because I'd gag if I had to say it) it means that they're probably teenagers or early 20s. They don't know what a real graphical game-changer is so I'd recommend just showing them that tessellation post I made and compare the difference tessellation makes to the difference that RT makes. They'll realise just how pathetic the concept is in comparison.

HARDWARE TESSELLATION >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> RAY-TRACING
:laughing:
Proper RT capable hardware AND games are easily 2 gens away, so again, I dont need to worry about a non existent or useful feature.
Even then, all that RT does is improve everything that gamers tend to NOT look at. Honestly, I can't believe that the market fell for this crap. I remember looking at two images from Control, apparently one of the best implementations of RT ever (or so nVidia says) and I remember cracking up as I thought to myself "That's it? That's what it does?":
maxresdefault.jpg

maxresdefault.jpg

People are paying HUNDREDS more for THIS^^^^^^????

I could understand spending more if there's a feature that actually makes a significant difference like hardware tessellation but RT is a joke. I don't think that it will ever be as big as nVidia says it will. Honestly, I don't understand why people trust what nVidia says even though they're constantly demonstrating just how scummy of a company they are. As you pointed out earlier, even Linus and his crew have stopped complaining about ATi's drivers:
Winners on what? This is the problem with the weak minded drones these days, you dont need to win, you just need a tool that does what you need and in my case, AMD provides what I need and add peace of mind that I am not supporting a company that has clearly shown they dont have their best interest for me.
Nail head, meet hammer! :laughing:
Glad you mentioned all that, because the possibilities are the same, keep giving nvidia money and you will keep getting GPUs for US$2K.

Perhaps that is a concept that you cannot comprehend. 🤷‍♂️
It is difficult for them to comprehend when they can't see the forest for the trees. When they're so short-sighted that they can't see past their own noses, the big picture is impossible for them to comprehend. All they see is the here and now, not what the long-term consequences of supporting companies like Intel and nVidia would be. Well, one consequence of these people having the wrong criteria for their decisions is happening right now. A video card has come to exist with an MSRP of $1,600USD.

That's more than entire gaming PC but the fools still buy them.
 

NeoMorpheus

Posts: 1,393   +2,958
You know Neo, when someone starts going off about the "miracle" of RT (good thing that I'm typing because I'd gag if I had to say it) it means that they're probably teenagers or early 20s.
As usual, you are absolutely right and I need to start using the Ignore button more when I see childish posts like their.
as I thought to myself "That's it? That's what it does?":
Except for a couple and I mean, literally a couple of samples, I simply keep asking the same questions, "What is the difference and why the hell I need this performance hit when I cant even see it?"
As you pointed out earlier, even Linus and his crew have stopped complaining about ATi's drivers:
Yes, but at the same time, see his "colorful" comments like this gem "their excellent DLSS technology and FSR is not good". And of course, he also said "RT". 🤷‍♂️

It is difficult for them to comprehend when they can't see the forest for the trees. When they're so short-sighted that they can't see past their own noses, the big picture is impossible for them to comprehend. All they see is the here and now, not what the long-term consequences of supporting companies like Intel and nVidia would be. Well, one consequence of these people having the wrong criteria for their decisions is happening right now. A video card has come to exist with an MSRP of $1,600USD.
Boom, headshot!
 

Avro Arrow

Posts: 3,028   +3,919
TechSpot Elite
As usual, you are absolutely right and I need to start using the Ignore button more when I see childish posts like their.
Yeah, it sure does make life a lot more fun to forget about some people.
Except for a couple and I mean, literally a couple of samples, I simply keep asking the same questions, "What is the difference and why the hell I need this performance hit when I cant even see it?"
Yeah, it really blows my mind.
Yes, but at the same time, see his "colorful" comments like this gem "their excellent DLSS technology and FSR is not good". And of course, he also said "RT". 🤷‍♂️
Well, saying "RT" is fine because that's just the initials of ray-tracing (I even use it). It's when they say "RTX" that I facepalm. The rest I just tune out because there's nothing that I can do about it.
Boom, headshot!
And I don't even have 120Hz to help me! :laughing: