Trump's tariffs could prove to be a "nuclear bomb" on international trade and tech imports, experts warn

[RF Match]

Are you seriously quoting Biden ???????
I'm sure he didn't say that as he's incapable of forming a coherent sentence.

Right !

Then there's these so called "experts"..... If you think this is bad, wait until austerity measures kick in if our debt is not decreased.

 

[ScottSoapbox]

What's grade school obvious is that we can't rely anymore on faraway rival countries to produce stuff for us.

To incentivize businesses to move, they must be convinced they have to. If tariffs were set to increase in 2-ish years, this would be interpreted as a bluff or time for negotiations or anything else but certainty, and anyone would have waited to know for sure.
You see that Trump is talking about tariffs since quite some time, his win was certain long before the election, yet very few have plans for this situation (let alone something beyond plans).

All these 'Trump is too stupid' claims are really funny, by the way. The guy became President two times (according to some 3 times) against all odds, with the entire machinery of the state, mass media and big tech working against him, and with any conceivable abuse of the law exploited to stop him ... if after all that he's 'too stupid', what to say about those he defeated?

Being popular does not mean you are smart. Even more so when it is a choice between two people. Our party duopoly ensures that voters have the illusion of choice while the parties do what they want. Trump won against a literately mentally incompetent opponent replaced at the last minute by a somehow even dumber VP. A majority of people found Trump less bad than the alternative - and I agree that Kamala would have been worse on many things. But none of that makes him smart or understand economic policy.

Why can't we rely on other countries to produce stuff for us? Why is half the world now our rivals? I don't care who makes my iPhone case or my belt or motorcycle muffler. Why do you?

If everything is made here it will be more expensive. That's why it moved in the first place. Because American customers preferred owning more things that cost less rather to a 'made in the US' label.

The only way in the industry moving back here is competitive is with the tariffs keeping imported goods expensive so that the more expensive US can compete.

The only people that benefit from these tariffs are the plant workers keeping their manufacturing job, but they - and everyone else - has to then pay more for everything that needed a tariff to bring it here. Which is at least a part of everything. Heck there are tariffs on the materials to build the very factories we're bringing back raising the cost of American made even higher.

 

[mgilbert]

This is what happens when people who are full of hate, intolerance, bigotry, and ignorance vote into power a hateful, intolerant, ignorant bigot. Those who did this are about to get what they voted for. Unfortunately, we are all going to pay for it in the end. But, will they learn from this? Probably not...

 

[GodisanAtheist]

Lord this thread.

Always remember, if the solution to a long running problem starts with "It's simple, you just need to do this one thing..." then it's usually the wrong solution to the problem cause if it was simple someone would have done it already.

Take a step back and think about why the solution wasn't implemented previously and you start to realize the solution wasn't actually all that simple at all.

 

[Beerfloat]

You're aware unemployment doesn't track people have been unemployed for more than a year don't you long-term unemployed or an actual problem but they don't count it the government statistics they intentionally don't there's plenty of long-term unemployed.

Forest/trees. What's relevant is that unemployment has consistently remained enviably low objectively speaking, compared both to other countries and our own historical record.

And let's not forget that there are actually millions of jobs openings that for whatever reason (lack of qualifications, or tried to do them but failed, or simply don't want to do these types of jobs, or.. ) are not being filled by Americans, requiring the use of migrant workers.

The fact is the jobs have to come back here now this really helps out the actual poor in this country because those jobs are coming back and they're going to need people to work those jobs.

Only in the most optimistic (read, delusional) predictions. Most think it will have the opposite effect. Let's say it's going to be a wash, at best.

The tarriffs are actively harmful to existing businesses that rely on an existing supply chain of imports (I.e. most of them). There will be massive job losses to offset any gains. Consumers in general will suffer from higher prices. Those actual poor will be experience the most immediate suffering.

Down with the experts, right? Let's trust the gut instincts of a guy who managed to bankrupt casinos (!), ran a fake school, hires hundreds of seasonal H2-B workers because Americans won't work for what he is willing to pay, and was eventually bailed out by a reality TV stint on NBC of all places. The absurdity of this whole premise would be funny if this experiment wasn't being conducted with everyone's livelihoods at stake.

 

[yRaz]

Take a step back and think about why the solution wasn't implemented previously and you start to realize the solution wasn't actually all that simple at all.

Because crashing the stock market would impact the rich's ability to take out tax free loans, leverage assets and increase their wealth exponentially?

 

[Kirby1]

Another very bad day for the markets. It's as if a foreign enemy is at the helm, doing all that he can to destroy us without raising suspicion to a point where people think he's doing it on purpose instead of just being incredibly stupid.

 

[GodisanAtheist]

Because crashing the stock market would impact the rich's ability to take out tax free loans, leverage assets and increase their wealth exponentially?

- The rich are rich, a couple million here or there is just business to them.

All crashing the economy and triggering a recession does is make everything that's still too expensive for you and me to buy on fire sale for the wealthy.

For example if houses went from being 3 million to 1 million, I still can't afford one but Richy Rich can buy three now cause he went from having 50 million in the bank to 45 million in the bank. Dude ain't eating rice and beans.

 

[MyIOnU]

Wait... so it is ok for other Countries to put tariffs on American products, but it's wrong if America does the same? LOL

 

[axiomatic13]

It's worse than I thought. Not only was Trump golfing yesterday? He blew off attending the dignified transfer of the bodies of four U.S. Army soldiers who died on a training mission in Lithuania to play golf with the Saudi's. https://www.thedailybeast.com/trump-picks-golf-dinner-over-dignified-transfer-of-troops/

 

[Alfonso Maruccia]

*

 

[candle86]

Forest/trees. What's relevant is that unemployment has consistently remained enviably low objectively speaking, compared both to other countries and our own historical record.

And let's not forget that there are actually millions of jobs openings that for whatever reason (lack of qualifications, or tried to do them but failed, or simply don't want to do these types of jobs, or.. ) are not being filled by Americans, requiring the use of migrant workers.


Only in the most optimistic (read, delusional) predictions. Most think it will have the opposite effect. Let's say it's going to be a wash, at best.

The tarriffs are actively harmful to existing businesses that rely on an existing supply chain of imports (I.e. most of them). There will be massive job losses to offset any gains. Consumers in general will suffer from higher prices. Those actual poor will be experience the most immediate suffering.

Down with the experts, right? Let's trust the gut instincts of a guy who managed to bankrupt casinos (!), ran a fake school, hires hundreds of seasonal H2-B workers because Americans won't work for what he is willing to pay, and was eventually bailed out by a reality TV stint on NBC of all places. The absurdity of this whole premise would be funny if this experiment wasn't being conducted with everyone's livelihoods at stake.

Sorry I don't trust any *expert* The graduated from any college in the last 30 years, they are all indoctrinationed globalists that are only interesting in selling our future away. I'm not going to lie I knew what I was voting for I knew it was going to be tough for a while but I'm more than happy to make those sacrifices because of the long-term benefit.

 

[dirtyferret]

- The rich are rich, a couple million here or there is just business to them.

All crashing the economy and triggering a recession does is make everything that's still too expensive for you and me to buy on fire sale for the wealthy.

For example if houses went from being 3 million to 1 million, I still can't afford one but Richy Rich can buy three now cause he went from having 50 million in the bank to 45 million in the bank. Dude ain't eating rice and beans.

Most people buying a home will have to put money down out of their savings or 401k. If I have shares totaling 50m (even if they drop to 40m) I just burrow against those assets on a asset leverage loan with an extremely low rate. My shares remain the same and once they recover in value I'm back up to 50m or more. Plus there are no taxes on the loan unlike someone having to pull money out of their personal investments. Recessions are tag sales for the rich, devastating for everyone else.

It's worse than I thought. Not only was Trump golfing yesterday? He blew off attending the dignified transfer of the bodies of four U.S. Army soldiers who died on a training mission in Lithuania to play golf with the Saudi's.

Not the guy who called fallen soldiers "suckers” and "losers" via his own chief of staff? Doesn't sound like trump at all if all I did was listen to fox news.

 

[Beerfloat]

Wait... so it is ok for other Countries to put tariffs on American products, but it's wrong if America does the same? LOL

Oh yeah, that's another big problem with this whole fiasco. It isn't just that broad tariffs are the stupidest possible way to implement this particular policy goal.

It also turns out that the entire justification behind it is just completely made up drivel. That chart that Trump presented does not actually show any tariffs imposed upon us by others at all! Instead, it's a bunch of fictional numbers derived from our trade balances.

And then people like MyIonU will bring this up. As if it is anything but an embarassment.

 

[Beerfloat]

Sorry I don't trust any *expert* The graduated from any college in the last 30 years, they are all indoctrinationed globalists that are only interesting in selling our future away. I'm not going to lie I knew what I was voting for I knew it was going to be tough for a while but I'm more than happy to make those sacrifices because of the long-term benefit.

The war on expertise is perhaps the greatest tragedy of all. Our rivals aren't going to start shooting themselves in the foot just because we insist on the dumbest choices.

 

[GodisanAtheist]

Even some Countries already agree to lower their tariffs on American product, but you are crying they are fake? LOL you are an embarrassment.

- Can you name which ones? My Google Fu has failed me.

 

[Beerfloat]

- Can you name which ones? My Google Fu has failed me.

When he said 'lower' he meant 'slapped new retaliatory tariffs on us'.

Maybe ChatGPT can put together a graph to explain the difference to these kinds of posters that are more inclined towards visual learning.

 

[OortCloud]

See here's what you're missing Trump is a populist, He's not an old school Republican he is literally a populist candidate That's why he won the swing states people that can't figure this out are nuts. You know what's real popular in this country right now America no longer being taken advantage of on the world stage. America no longer giving away our money to defend countries that are openly hostile to Americans when they come to visit.

And yeah let's talk about that because if you go watch anybody that does any sort of traveling both Europeans who travel to America, and Americans travelimg to Europe you're going to find something really interesting out. Europeans travel to America they're treated like family by the average American. And some Europeans find it off-putting that Americans are so friendly but that's our nature. When Americans go to Europe they are treated with derision and hostility. And this isn't just since Trump took office this has been consistent since I've been alive.

Here's the thing America is no longer bys the message that the people over there are our friends we don't see it. Diplomatically friends because you needed us not because you wanted us in the relationship had we simply left our checkbook open and stayed away it would have been the same relationship. You're right it is a whole new world, one where America is finally doing what's best for American interest not for Western interests not for global interests for American interests. We haven't done that since before world war II.

Please don't lecture me on US, European relations. I'm a European and my wife is American - I'm pretty clear on how this works thanks. As we travel to and from the States all the time we have a really good picture of what's going on and the US relationship with Europe. What's most noticeable is the sudden shift by Trump away from Europe. The main reason for this is because Europe is essentially a libertarian society and Trump wants to drag everybody back to a dark age of bigotry and division. He has managed to turn 'being liberal' into a a dirty word for his army of window lickers. The dumb love to blame somebody for their failings and who is an easier target than racial minorities, immigrants, gays and in Trumps misogynistic mania even women?

 

[Kirby1]

Please don't lecture me on US, European relations. I'm a European and my wife is American - I'm pretty clear on how this works thanks. As we travel to and from the States all the time we have a really good picture of what's going on and the US relationship with Europe. What's most noticeable is the sudden shift by Trump away from Europe. The main reason for this is because Europe is essentially a libertarian society and Trump wants to drag everybody back to a dark age of bigotry and division. He has managed to turn 'being liberal' into a a dirty word for his army of window lickers. The dumb love to blame somebody for their failings and who is an easier target than racial minorities, immigrants, gays and in Trumps misogynistic mania even women?

Trump is turning America's success into a liberal idea, lol.

 

[pnntmp]

Being popular does not mean you are smart. Even more so when it is a choice between two people. Our party duopoly ensures that voters have the illusion of choice while the parties do what they want. Trump won against a literately mentally incompetent opponent replaced at the last minute by a somehow even dumber VP. A majority of people found Trump less bad than the alternative - and I agree that Kamala would have been worse on many things. But none of that makes him smart or understand economic policy.

Why can't we rely on other countries to produce stuff for us? Why is half the world now our rivals? I don't care who makes my iPhone case or my belt or motorcycle muffler. Why do you?

If everything is made here it will be more expensive. That's why it moved in the first place. Because American customers preferred owning more things that cost less rather to a 'made in the US' label.

The only way in the industry moving back here is competitive is with the tariffs keeping imported goods expensive so that the more expensive US can compete.

The only people that benefit from these tariffs are the plant workers keeping their manufacturing job, but they - and everyone else - has to then pay more for everything that needed a tariff to bring it here. Which is at least a part of everything. Heck there are tariffs on the materials to build the very factories we're bringing back raising the cost of American made even higher.

I agree to a large extent to your assessment of the election, but Trump didn't win just against a mentally incompetent opponent and a VP selected for being a Vagina Of Color. He won against them, and against 90% of the media, and against the big tech (who won the election for Biden in 2020), despite lawfare and all. I don't think that's achievable for someone dumb, and about economic policy - many people around him understand it very well.

Anyway, that's not the point.
The point is we can't keep piling up trillions of debt and at the same time further diminishing our industrial base year after year after year ad infinitum. We can stop piling debt in 2 ways - by our own choice, or when the lenders stop lending (the latter being far worse). We can't rely other countries to produce stuff for us because we have to offer something in return, and as we don't produce we have less and less to offer (and there are fewer reasons the lenders to believe financing our debt is still safe).
Besides, many if not all Chinese goods are state -sponsored. Without tariffs, they'll stay cheap until our production capacity is sufficiently damaged and we're irreversibly dependent. Then we'll have to buy them at their real price. And at any point, they could simply cut off the supply - we saw a glimpse of that during Covid.

This is complicated and really shouldn't be politicized. Something must be done to change course and restore our manufacturing capacity, and tariffs are a possible path. It won't be easy. We can probably kick the can down the road once or twice, but not more. I believe the current administration should be admired for choosing not to do that.

 

[New Day]

Our economic house of cards was getting to collapse anyway, Trump is just accelerating it with his foolishness. The sooner the fake economy crashes the sooner we can rebuild it with something that works.

Yes, but to dispel Transaction. Last year, I had a vision of Biden getting [re-]elected and a somewhat gradual transition to a Post-scarcity Society. Kamala in his place seemed a viable alternative....until two weeks before the election and my mom asked me whom would get elected....and I looked and couldn't see, and said, ''I don't know.''

But this year it has come to me that the 'collective' psyche of America (and incidentally by extension humans) has cried out for it MUCH SOONER. And so, with many suffering a great deal along the way, this will happen.

 

[dioholydiver]

1) trump is a ***** who doesn't understand trade deficits
https://economics.td.com/ca-canada-us-trade-balance

2) his gullible nitwit cultists are even bigger morons for thinking he does

3) we (like virtually every other company) will be increasing our prices due to the tariffs

You can increase your prices all you want, we will simply buy elsewhere. Good luck!

 

[dioholydiver]

Perhaps you are too ignorant to acknowledge the fact that Biden is absolutely right, any well respected scholar would agree with him regardless if you choose to make fun of a 82 year old individual with a speech impediment.

It seems like your parents failed at their most basic job.

All Biden did was hiring government workers and blowing up the budget / deficit. You have no clue whatsoever and you should really worry about your own crippling country (UK?) where your citizens can't even get dental appointments.

 

[candle86]

Please don't lecture me on US, European relations. I'm a European and my wife is American - I'm pretty clear on how this works thanks. As we travel to and from the States all the time we have a really good picture of what's going on and the US relationship with Europe. What's most noticeable is the sudden shift by Trump away from Europe. The main reason for this is because Europe is essentially a libertarian society and Trump wants to drag everybody back to a dark age of bigotry and division. He has managed to turn 'being liberal' into a a dirty word for his army of window lickers. The dumb love to blame somebody for their failings and who is an easier target than racial minorities, immigrants, gays and in Trumps misogynistic mania even women?

The issue is Illegals, they aren't immigrants if you're in this country as a non-citizen without a valid and current Visa you are a criminal, not an immigrant a criminal no different than any other criminal, and until a few years ago they were called illegal aliens, only recently did we try to reclassify it as undocumented immigrants, but they aren't immigrants they are criminals. As for the Gays and trans keep it away from my kids, when I have to worry about a man in a woman's restroom I will always have an issue, when I have to worry that you're going to tell my child its acceptable to be queer, I'm going to have a problem with that, because God's word supersedes all others.

And not everyone has always been happy, I've been asking since middle school why we have so many troops stationed overseas, I've been asking since I lost a job to an H1B Visa why we allow people to come here to work a job I was working for less, because they got 3 guys from India to come do a Windows XP to 7 Migration for $9/hr and fired the 3 of us doing it for $14/hr. Not all of us were blind and stupid, plenty of us realized that the relationship we had overseas was not to our benefit, that our policies benefited the rest of the world at the expense of Americans, and Covid made it front and center. When we got told we couldn't withhold N95 masks for American citizens and had to supply them other countries because of treaties, when we got told we didn't have enough ventilators because we had to ship so many to other countries, Covid woke up the average American finally, and they got angry at the WHO, they got angry at the UN and they got angry at the democrat judges who said we have to send medical supplies to Africa even if there is a shortage in America because its more important for them to live than for us.

 

[Beerfloat]

The issue is Illegals, they aren't immigrants if you're in this country as a non-citizen without a valid and current Visa you are a criminal, not an immigrant a criminal no different than any other criminal, and until a few years ago they were called illegal aliens, only recently did we try to reclassify it as undocumented immigrants, but they aren't immigrants they are criminals.

It's actually typically classed a civil violation, not a crime. You're just making this stuff up as you go along, aren't you?

As for the Gays and trans keep it away from my kids, when I have to worry about a man in a woman's restroom I will always have an issue, when I have to worry that you're going to tell my child its acceptable to be queer, I'm going to have a problem with that, because God's word supersedes all others.

And not everyone has always been happy, I've been asking since middle school why we have so many troops stationed overseas, I've been asking since I lost a job to an H1B Visa why we allow people to come here to work a job I was working for less, because they got 3 guys from India to come do a Windows XP to 7 Migration for $9/hr and fired the 3 of us doing it for $14/hr. Not all of us were blind and stupid, plenty of us realized that the relationship we had overseas was not to our benefit, that our policies benefited the rest of the world at the expense of Americans, and Covid made it front and center. When we got told we couldn't withhold N95 masks for American citizens and had to supply them other countries because of treaties, when we got told we didn't have enough ventilators because we had to ship so many to other countries, Covid woke up the average American finally, and they got angry at the WHO, they got angry at the UN and they got angry at the democrat judges who said we have to send medical supplies to Africa even if there is a shortage in America because its more important for them to live than for us.

Yeah. Just, eew.