Why Apple can't easily move iPhone production to the US: 2,700+ parts, 187 suppliers, 28 countries

[OortCloud]

The US will never really make a phone at anything like a competitive price - period.
This policy is ludicrous and comes from a massive over-simplification of a complex problem in the mind of a deeply-stupid man. Even the implementation of tariffs with zero time to prepare alone highlights how ridiculous this policy is. I think in his tiny little mind he imagined that - "we make it expensive to import, and so a week later we start making them here".

 

[pencea]

Just goes to show how out of touch and clueless Trump really is. How delusional can he be to expect manufacturing to shift to the US overnight? This whole process can take decades.

 

[wiyosaya]

After WW2, the USA was the "manufacturing hub" of the world. THEN greedy CEO's, stockholder and the like started looking for ways to make even more money. Rebuilding of Japan meant there were few jobs and Japan wanted them, so a lot of electronic manufacturing went there. For a while, I remember "made in Japan" meant junk, but they refined and got better at it, to the point "made in Japan" meant good stuff. As the people of Japan started demanding more and more wages, the CEO's and stockholders looked for cheaper labor, started moving to Taiwan, South Korea etc. As the people of those nations started demanding more wages, the CEO's and stockholders looked for another source of cheap labor, which has been China.
In 72, Nixon went to China to open up China. In 79, Carter gave China "Most Favored Nation" status, which was renewed every few years.
Since the Chinese people, for the most part, can't really stand up to anything, they can't really demand more wages, and through their indoctrination from birth to adult, they are the PERFECT "slave labor". Now with the backlash from stockholders, governments, the public, some are pulling out of China. It will take decades, if at all, to pull out of China.
I think over all, China has more to lose than the rest of the world.

The tariff spat between China and the US is causing China to reach out to other nations for trade, so I don't think that the effects of US tariffs on China will be as dramatic as TPTB are hoping. In fact, with the tariff stab at all nations, IMO, its more likely that US tariffs will backfire on the US. TPTB are trying to revert the US back to a time with policies that worked about 100-years ago. The world has significantly progressed from those times, and I highly doubt that those archaic policies are in any way, applicable to modern times. However, TPTB deny that there's a problem and insist that everything they are doing is perfect in every manner. IMO, TPTB are setting the US up for a major fall. There's that adage "The road to hell is paved with good intent."

Think what you want, but China is not going to vanish from the face of the Earth.

And if you look back further in time to pre-WWII times, Trade was opened with Japan by the US. this bolstered and emboldened Japan, with the result being that Japan thought itself strong enough to start and win WWII.

 

[wiyosaya]

It wasn't easy to go to the moon. America 1st.

I suggest you edify yourself, at least to an iota, about the moon program. Here's a series that if you find it somewhere - perhaps on DVD from your library system, should make clear that the specialization necessary for the moon program was far, far, far in advance of what it takes to assemble iPhones or various other modern electronic consumer junk. In other words, the moon program offered "real" jobs.

Moon Machines (TV Series 2008– ) ⭐ 8.7 | Documentary

Moon Machines: With Robert Seamans, Bill Stoney, Sonny Morea, Cliff Hess. A collection of documentaries about project apollo,from the designers and engineers viewpoint.Each episode focused on individual components or equipment for the Apollo programme.

www.imdb.com

Be forewarned, there is a hefty dose of science in this series which may not appeal to some factions of the "modern" US populace.

 

[wiyosaya]

Good degree planning should be required but isn't in large part because the professors of useless degrees won't allow it. It was surprising to learn how embittered underwater basket weaving professors are, but rather than blame their own life choices they blame the "evil" system. See, professors get paid based on what they could make outside the university because otherwise useful doctorates would never work at a university. But such simple concepts elude them because obviously pure knowledge in any subject is invaluable regardless of what the market says. This leads to a lot of turf wars between useless and useful majors/colleges as obviously the useful programs subsidizing the "pure" academic ones is the only way to correct the evil system. Universities aspire to teach "well rounded scholars" which is valid but often gets stretched to cover any non-useful subject as extra intellectual. And useful majors are usually more difficult and often include science or math so it's easy for students to swell the easy subjects because they don't understand the future consequences.

If that's really the way that it is, that's unfortunate. However, I have no knowledge of this. Is your opinion based on first-hand knowledge?

Add to that 18 year-olds don't know what they want to do (I don't blame them I changed majors my senior year) plus all the talk today of "follow your passion!" and we end up here.

Which is why students, 18-year olds, whatever you want to call them, need to research careers before they make a choice.

Again, the impetus to "follow your passion" is nothing that can be blamed on an external "deity." Ultimately, its the student making the choice of a career that has responsibility for that choice. If they make a bad choice because they were influenced by external sources, they can try to blame it on those external sources. Unfortunately, that will get them nowhere. That kind of tack is what TPTB use only because its the "easiest" way out of taking responsibility for their actions. All my/our problems are because of "xxx!!!" Sound familiar?

We need to end the stigma of not going to college. There are many paths to success and only some of them require a 4+ year degree.

Yes, there are many other paths to success. Some paths have closed over the years, particularly apprenticeships. Yet there is some movement toward companies offering apprenticeships again.

EDIT: IMO, there's also an over-emphasis on making money. Money cannot buy happiness. It might make life easier for some if they are adept at handling finances, however, how much one earns means little WRT knowledge and/or wisdom.

 

[ScottSoapbox]

If that's really the way that it is, that's unfortunate. However, I have no knowledge of this. Is your opinion based on first-hand knowledge?

Yes. I've been a professor at a few different top universities (public and private).

Which is why students, 18-year olds, whatever you want to call them, need to research careers before they make a choice.

Again, the impetus to "follow your passion" is nothing that can be blamed on an external "deity." Ultimately, its the student making the choice of a career that has responsibility for that choice. If they make a bad choice because they were influenced by external sources, they can try to blame it on those external sources. Unfortunately, that will get them nowhere. That kind of tack is what TPTB use only because its the "easiest" way out of taking responsibility for their actions. All my/our problems are because of "xxx!!!" Sound familiar?

Students are making the choice, but decisions made with bad information aren't completely their fault. Unfortunately, many successful people give wonderful speeches about how they followed their passion and you can too (despite the reality). It's a lot like the "overnight success" stories that skip over the years grinding away and multiple failures that happened before the success.

Yes, there are many other paths to success. Some paths have closed over the years, particularly apprenticeships. Yet there is some movement toward companies offering apprenticeships again.

There is a movement for corporate training replacing college type schooling as well as said schooling moves farther away from preparing people to be good employees.

EDIT: IMO, there's also an over-emphasis on making money. Money cannot buy happiness. It might make life easier for some if they are adept at handling finances, however, how much one earns means little WRT knowledge and/or wisdom.

If money can't buy happiness, explain motorcycles and booze.

Studies have shown that 1) the lack of money is a real problem (shocking I know, but the point is more that lacking is a negative rather than having being a positive) and 2) more money has diminishing returns that drop off considerably at around 1.5X the median income. So if you make above average pay you are about as happy as money can make you (for most people). Relationships, amazing experiences, spiritual peace, motorcycles... these are the things that bring true happiness.

 

[gamerk2]

I suggest you edify yourself, at least to an iota, about the moon program. Here's a series that if you find it somewhere - perhaps on DVD from your library system, should make clear that the specialization necessary for the moon program was far, far, far in advance of what it takes to assemble iPhones or various other modern electronic consumer junk. In other words, the moon program offered "real" jobs.

Moon Machines (TV Series 2008– ) ⭐ 8.7 | Documentary

Moon Machines: With Robert Seamans, Bill Stoney, Sonny Morea, Cliff Hess. A collection of documentaries about project apollo,from the designers and engineers viewpoint.Each episode focused on individual components or equipment for the Apollo programme.

www.imdb.com

Be forewarned, there is a hefty dose of science in this series which may not appeal to some factions of the "modern" US populace.

Nevermind the US threw a frankly insane amount of money at the problem (which ironically is when the US government has the most success).

I will continue to argue the Apollo program was a large reason why the US jumped ahead of everyone else in the semiconductor industry for the next two decades, given how fast digital computers went from "a toy in a MIT lab" to "commercial product". Which is ironically exactly what China does now for emerging tech, and the US refuses to do (because "Socialism").

 

[gamerk2]

The US will never really make a phone at anything like a competitive price - period.
This policy is ludicrous and comes from a massive over-simplification of a complex problem in the mind of a deeply-stupid man. Even the implementation of tariffs with zero time to prepare alone highlights how ridiculous this policy is. I think in his tiny little mind he imagined that - "we make it expensive to import, and so a week later we start making them here".

Nevermind that its impossible to make everything here in any case. Example: We are "never" going to grow banana's in the US because the climate isn't right for it. All putting a tariff on banana imports do is raise the price of bananas. You are always going to have trade deficits with "someone"; its been that way since the beginning of time.

Nevermind tariffs are going to have the net effect of "killing" US exports overseas, and I argue the jobs that will be lost to retaliatory tariffs will be an order of magnitude more then the jobs gained through them. Simply put: Goods are sold *everywhere* now, and the idea you can tariff everyone and live making goods just for the US is, frankly, insane.

Finally, you have to consider the economic effects of higher prices for goods and services in an age where wages are largely stagnate. Higher prices leads to less sales, which forces lower production, leading to layoffs.

So yeah, lots of reasons to know this is not only *not* going to work, but is going to backfire about as badly (and quite possibly worse) as Brexit did.

 

[nick4wheelin]

Apple could move most of the process to the US. Hell us tax payers would probably have to pay for that too! Just like the chip plants and car battery plants we have been building as of late. Letting China may work, but it's not good and when war with them breaks out, good luck getting a phone, medicine, or most any electronic goods!