AMD Radeon HD 7950 delayed until February

[Leeky]

Steam even came up with a warning saying it didn't recognise my HD6870 either. I don't recall ever changing a GPU and not seeing it tbh. I just assumed it was some stupid bug low down on the list of more important issues they're working on.

 

[Guest]

Long Live AMD! they rock! Drivers and cards are great. All XBOX360's have AMD video chipsets. Gogogo AMD!

 

[dividebyzero]

Since that category is defined as "Primary Display Resolution" I imagine you're wrong. It would be interesting to know what the multi-monitor percentage is, but I assume that isn't it.

Hence the "assuming" preface to my comment

Even if it was 4%, it would be higher than the percentage of users with highest end cards.

True. CF/SLI of lower tier cards would make up a reasonable percentage. Whatever the true number is, if Steam's figures are indicative it would mean that even if you factored multi-monitor gaming as a significant percentage, over half of the display combinations combine for less pixels than a single 2560x1600 display.

More to the point, you could take the membership of a site such as Techspot (which would still produce skewed results in favour a more enthusiast setup than the average) and note how many use multi-monitor setups. (DONE. Let’s see how enthusiastic the enthusiasts are)

The question isn't what percent of the population has multiple monitors, but what percent of users with cards like the 7970 or 580 (or SLI) have.

Good luck trying to find an estimated sample OF an estimated sample.
Here’s Mercury Research’s estimate to help you on your way. According to their figures, enthusiast AMD cards sit at ~5% of sales, and while Nvidia cards are almost double that figure, you do need two cards for multi-monitor gaming at 4+ Mpixels
https://www.techspot.com/gallery/data/500/manufacturing_summary_4_1.jpg

My bet would be it's much higher than those with 3D.

Assuredly. But then, that wasn’t the point. The point was that multi-monitor and 3-D were both niche markets, as is CUDA acceleration in CS and other apps for instance, or AMD's hit-or-miss approach to OGL based content creation apps.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Now...
This whole line of posting is pretty much beside the point. In this thread, red posted a reply to a comment I made in another thread (see post #18) and decided to put an entirely different spin on it.
Note: like culling of the final line in my post

"Bench results seem in line with previous reviews - allowing for the reviews that used some very odd methodology or custom IQ."

The original premise was that red stated that he "[had] heard from a normally reliable source that the first round of review cards may have been throttling back a bit prematurely." (see post #3). I doubted that post-launch performance would differ appreciably due to a number of factors (see the posts in question). The Tech Report review was the first HD 7970 review post-launch, and I posted the condensed results as a comparison to the performance in launch reviews (using the GTX 580 as a baseline since it features in comparison in virtually all 7970 reviews).
So what was in all actuality, a comparison of before-and-after performance of the same HD 7970 card, has been taken and manipulated into a one-sided fanboy flamewar by red adding a multi-display comment to a quote taken out of context from another thread...and while I must admit I was interested to ascertain the rationale behind turning an AMD vs AMD post into an AMD vs Nvidia flamewar based on gaming res., it's now come down to the fanboy stronghold of attempting to prove a negative. Nice to see ET3D weigh in. I was hoping that red was going to be bolstered by Mosu as well.
:suspiciou

 

[ET3D]

dividebyzero said:
and while I must admit I was interested to ascertain the rationale behind turning an AMD vs AMD post into an AMD vs Nvidia flamewar based on gaming res.,

You certainly fanned the flames with your comment about 3D vs. multi monitor, not to mention discussing the flame war itself and taking pot shots at the red camp in particular. "Ascertain the rationale"... right.

 

[dividebyzero]

You certainly fanned the flames with your comment about 3D vs. multi monitor

Versus ? What I wrote was that both technologies were of a gaming minority....

3-D gaming is probably no less valid as a niche market

...please enlighten me as to where I stated that one of these technologies should be considered above the other

not to mention discussing the flame war itself and taking pot shots at the red camp in particular. "Ascertain the rationale"... right.

I believe the flame war that I was "discussing" was in reply to the supposition by another poster.....

If the GTX 780 comes out and bests the 7970 by 5%, this guy (and his ilk) will be the first ones to scream that it "crushes the 7970".

.....I answered the supposition with a statement of fact- after agreeing with the poster- a somewhat more even-handed approach I would have thought than having my original post taken out of context in order for someone to build a platform for their hobby horses.
As for taking "pot shots and fanning flames", I have no qualm about either- you won't see me losing any sleep over the process- "Fanboy Standoff In GPU Thread Causes Dispruption"...well that never happens does it? . If you'd care to re-read what I've written and use some modicum of written comprehension, you would note that my objection was to have a post from another thread edited and taken out of context to initiate the process.

 

[red1776]

Which is why I bowed out of it all. All I have done is:
1) Wonder if there was any merit to the "premature throttling issue' I had heard about, and state that I would be watching with great interest the Jan 9th release for confirmation or dissolution of this.

2) Ponder multi monitor adoption rates (while prefacing it by saying my customer experience is admittedly anecdotal)

3) Note yet another fanboy who (if it was the other way around) would say that the current numbers are a crushing defeat for AMD....or triumphant victory for Nvidia.

Dividebyzero said:

So what was in all actuality, a comparison of before-and-after performance of the same HD 7970 card, has been taken and manipulated into a one-sided fanboy flamewar by red adding a multi-display comment to a quote taken out of context from another thread...and while I must admit I was interested to ascertain the rationale behind turning an AMD vs AMD post into an AMD vs Nvidia flamewar based on gaming res., it's now come down to the fanboy stronghold of attempting to prove a negative. Nice to see ET3D weigh in. I was hoping that red was going to be bolstered by Mosu as well.

A.
I noted that as the res went up, so did the performance spread of the two cards, according to benches i have seen. Given that these are top level $500 cards, 'ultra res/multi monitor can be a reasonable factor in the assessment of these parts success and purchasing motivation..ie...do people who buy these really play at 1600 x 1200? etc

and...

B.
I the noted that Steam is not a very reliable survey of system hardware BY THEIR OWN ADMISSION, and In two years , and four quad GPU systems, they have never detected more than one GPU in my system. ( not to mention it has gets my ram wrong 50% of the time as well)

ET3D said:

You certainly fanned the flames with your comment about 3D vs. multi monitor, not to mention discussing the flame war itself and taking pot shots at the red camp in particular. "Ascertain the rationale"... right

How is it a shot at the red team? it is a valid question/factor and AMD's 3D is at best of questionable functionality 'go-go-go!'

....I guess that now does not count as bowing out. oh well.

 

[dividebyzero]

Which is why I bowed out of it all. all I have done is:
1) wonder if there was any merit to the "premature throttling issue' I had heard about, and state that i would be watching with great interest the Jan 9th release for confirmation or dissolution of this.

Which was worthy of discussion in the appropriate thread. My keeping an eye on post-launch review benches was precisely to test the theory you postulated. For the crime of using the GTX 580 as baseline comparison for HD 7970 at launch and post-launch, my post was ported over to this thread to make a comparison between the two. I believe I'm on record here as stating that the 7970 is new top dog. I certainly don't believe I put forward a case for the GTX 580....in fact, I believe my only statement on the card was to note that Kyle Bennett cherry picks pricing to show whatever product he's pushing into the best possible light

2) Ponder multi monitor adoption rates (while prefacing it by saying my customer experience is admittedly anecdotal)

Pondering is all anyone will ever do. As an exact science it ranks with ascertaining accurate RMA and failure rates and reliable breakdowns of sales by SKU. My argument is that you test for the market segment the product is aimed at, and for the enthusiast sector that encompasses Multiple GPU's, resolutions at 1080p and above (including multiple displays), 3-D gaming and compute functionality. You either isolate the benches for the masses, or you include the whole gamut. Every group has it's adherents, whether it be gaming at extreme resolution or distributed computing. I'd be reluctant to say that one preference is valid whilst another is not.

3) note yet another fanboy who (if it was the other way around) would say that the current numbers are a crushing defeat for AMD....or triumphant victory for Nvidia.

...who was bleating on about drivers and some such. One day I'll post an entire page of self-serving contradictory statements penned by some of the people here just for the lulz

I noted that as the res went up, so did the performance spread of the two cards, according to benches i have seen.

A self evident truth. Performance with a new arch and process should always outperform the old. If it didn't then you're doing it wrong. I don't see anyone disputing this fact (aside from amstech, so ask yourself).

Given that these are top level $500 cards, 'ultra res/multi monitor can be a reasonable factor in the assessment of these parts success and purchasing motivation..ie...do people who buy these really play at 1600 x 1200? etc

I'm running GTX 580 SLI and HD5850 CFX. I game at either 1980x1200 or 1980x1080. If I could afford it I'd ditch my two monitors (and possibly the TV) in order to buy a 30" 2560x1600. Does that answer your question?

I the noted that Steam is not a very reliable survey of system hardware BY THEIR OWN ADMISSION, and In two years , and four quad GPU systems, they have never detected more than one GPU in my system.

Granted, the figures aren't reliable. Do you know of any published figures that are more so?
I tend to use the information at hand. I'm more than willing to use a better source if one presents itself.

How is it a shot at the red team? it is a valid question/factor and AMD's 3D is at best of questionable functionality

ET3D doesn't seem in agreement with AMD, who are actively pushing 3D gaming via HD3D -as I noted regarding the reviewers guide pdf for the HD 7970, and as seen on AMD's site. Maybe ET3D see's Nvidia as synonymous with 3-D gaming which would say more about the rudimentary nature of some peoples technical breadth and public perception than any degree of actuality. On the other hand maybe using the Bulldozer example-even if accurate- constitutes heresy

...I guess that now does not count as bowing out. oh well.

done and done

 

[red1776]

Dividebyzero:

Which was worthy of discussion in the appropriate thread. My keeping an eye on post-launch review benches was precisely to test the theory you postulated. For the crime of using the GTX 580 as baseline comparison for HD 7970 at launch and post-launch, my post was ported over to this thread to make a comparison between the two. I believe I'm on record here as stating that the 7970 is new top dog. I certainly don't believe I put forward a case for the GTX 580....in fact, I believe my only statement on the card was to note that Kyle Bennett cherry picks pricing to show whatever product he's pushing into the best possible light

This is the aspect i do not understand. As far as i know, the line I "culled' was an aggregation of survey/bench statistics. If they were accurate in post #18, they are accurate here. That was aimed at amstech. I don't believe I asserted that you put forth a case for the GTX 580.
If your point is , you do not like me using/quoting your findings or putting a handle on them...done. it's not as if I changed the numbers or content of your findings.I merely took your findings at your word, and used them as an example.

Dividebyzero:

Granted, the figures aren't reliable. Do you know of any published figures that are more so?
I tend to use the information at hand. I'm more than willing to use a better source if one presents itself.

I do not, and do not use them for that reason since learning about this flaw in Steams hardware detection system.

Dividebyzero:

A self evident truth. Performance with a new arch and process should always outperform the old. If it didn't then you're doing it wrong. I don't see anyone disputing this fact (aside from amstech, so ask yourself).

Which I agreed with, twice. and who (amstech) it was aimed at.

Dividebyzero:

I'm running GTX 580 SLI and HD5850 CFX. I game at either 1980x1200 or 1980x1080. If I could afford it I'd ditch my two monitors (and possibly the TV) in order to buy a 30" 2560x1600. Does that answer your question?

if mine is anecdotal, so is yours. Perhaps a good start to a survey...hey!....

 

[dividebyzero]

This is the aspect i do not understand. As far as i know, the line I "culled' was an aggregation of survey/bench statistics. If they were accurate in post #18, they are accurate here....If your point is , you do not like me using/quoting your findings or putting a handle on them...done. it's not as if I changed the numbers or content of your findings.I merely took your findings at your word, and used them as an example.

As I'd previously noted, the bench results were a small subset of total. In the interests of clarity these are the full results.
31 Reviews (Anand, Bit-tech, ComputerBase, Guru of 3D, Hardwareluxx, Hardware Canucks, Hardware France, Hardware Heaven (2), Hardware.info, Hardware Secrets, Hexus, Hot Hardware, HT4U, iXBT, Kitguru, Neoseeker, OC3D, OCC, PCGH, PC Perspective, Rage 3D, TPU, Tech Report, TechSpot, Tom's Hardware, technic3D, tweakpc.de,Tweaktown, VR Zone, Xbit)
Site reviews not used:
Legit Reviews and HardOCP ( used OC'ed GTX 580), motherboards.org ( GTX 580 3GB used in comparison)
Benches only from highest game IQ level used.
5760x1080 resolution HD 7970 CFX and GTX 580 SLI
Game....................>Gain over GTX580 @ 1920..........2560..........5760

AvP..........................................................+21.15%......+22.90%
Anno 1404...............................................+31.25%......+37.16%
Anno 2070...............................................+53.33%......+52.76%.....+44.44%
ArmA II.....................................................+27.12%......+38.24%
Batman:AA...............................................-10.59%.........-8.57%
Batman:Arkham City................................+13.97%......+19.10%.....-42.19%
Battlefield:Bad Co.2.................................+24.18%.......+36.27%
Battlefield 3..............................................+12.43%......+17.30%....+33.63%
Battle Forge.............................................+ 2.17%.........+5.62%
Brink.........................................................+22.58%......+22.31%
Bulletstorm...............................................+42.85%......+48.34%.....+29.47%
CoD4:MW....................................................-9.43%.........-6.46%
CoD:MW2................................................. +1.75%.........+5.69%
CoD:MW3..................................................+9.10%........+18.46%
Call of Juarez...........................................+11.49%.......+18.26%
Chronicles of Riddick................................+21.08%.......+18.69%
Civilization V.............................................+34.92%.......+20.33%......+6.80%
Crysis.......................................................+32.48%........+35.41%
Crysis 2....................................................+16.34%........+23.00%.....+21.13%
Crysis Warhead........................................+22.43%.......+28.90%
Dawn of War II:Chaos Rising....................+4.73%.........+13.30%
Dead Island 2............................................+24.91%
Deus Ex:Human Revolution......................+27.61%.......+28.68%
DiRT2.......................................................... -8.36%.........+5.44%
DiRT3..........................................................+8.63%.......+18.44%
Dragon Age 2..............................................+5.23%.......+10.40%
F.E.A.R.......................................................+5.91%..........+4.08%
F1 2010.....................................................+27.17%.......+37.90%
F1 2011.......................................................+7.38%........+23.44%.....+24.50%
Far Cry Regulator demo...............................-8.45%..........-1.65%
Far Cry 2.......................................................-2.97%.......+11.58%
Grand Theft Auto IV....................................-19.34%
Hard Reset.................................................. +8.26%.......+12.78%
H.A.W.X.......................................................-28.58%.......-25.18%
H.A.W.X.2....................................................-16.11%.......-10.42%
Homefront...................................................+14.52%
Just Cause 2..............................................+25.96%........+33.16%
Left 4 Dead................................................+16.72%.......+35.10%
Left 4 Dead 2.............................................+14.50%.......+24.73%
Lost Planet 2..............................................+14.49%........+25.00%
Mafia II.......................................................+17.79%........+32.35%
Mass Effect 2.............................................+53.45%........+62.72%
Metro 2033.................................................+21.15%........+25.87%....+27.91%
Portal 2.......................................................+10.83%.......+18.15%
Project C.A.R.S...........................................-18.46%.........+7.41%....+10.00%
Quake 4........................................................+5.00%........+41.56%
Resident Evil 5.............................................+10.66%.......+10.33%
Serious Sam 3............................................+27.54%.......+45.20%
Shogun 2....................................................+34.40%........+28.56%....+56.25%
S.T.A.L.K.E.R. Call of Pripyat.....................+22.28%.......+37.01%
S.T.A.L.K.E.R. Clear Sky..............................+3.85%.........+4.01%
Starcraft 2.....................................................+0.51%..........-0.48%
Star Wars: The Old Republic.......................+10.50%
Stormrise.....................................................+66.55%.......+83.01%
Street Fighter IV...........................................-22.41%
Supreme Commander 2.................................-2.13%
Swarm..........................................................+48.67%.......+41.94%
TESV:Skyrim................................. ...............+9.45%......+17.96%....-12.96%
The Witcher 2...............................................+23.14%.......+31.74%
Track Mania...................................................-7.71%.........+8.52%
Unreal Tournament 3...................................+21.74%
WoW:Cataclysm.............................................-3.24%.........-5.47%

Average........................................................+7.76%.......+15.73%....+11.17%

it's not as if I changed the numbers or content of your findings.I merely took your findings at your word, and used them as an example.

Probably more a case of culling than editing. The post reads as though it is indicative of the relative performance between two cards. It is only indicative of the performance between two cards in five games at one resolution, whereas my earlier post in the two previous threads made the overall performance clear as well as indicating that some of the testing regimes could stand some scrutiny ( Note Hardware Heaven's testing of Batman:AC...GTX 580 SLI has an uphill struggle in an apples-to-apples comparison...while Hardware Heaven decided to further burdon the Nvidia cards with PhysX set to high). Questionable benches such as the HH Batman one are included in the overall figures.