AMD Radeon HD 7950 delayed until February

Shawn Knight

Posts: 12,203   +120
Staff member
Last week we posted an in-depth review of the Radeon HD 7970, the first in a series of upcoming graphics cards from AMD to utilize a 28nm fabrication process. Although…

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Ranger12

Posts: 625   +125
Bummer. I'm waiting on the 7xxx series cards to come out so I can hopefully pick up another 6870 for cheap!
 

Ranger12

Posts: 625   +125
Ya know, I thought about selling my 6870 and 5830 and buying an nvidia because I've never owned one. I've bought only ati cards since my first 9800 pro back in the day.
 
G

Guest

Is it a 'crippled' flagship card, like the HD 6950 is? Or is it a redesign, such as the original GTX 560 Ti from almost one year ago? Just curious... (unlockable ???)
 

treetops

Posts: 2,952   +736
Ranger12 said:
Ya know, I thought about selling my 6870 and 5830 and buying an nvidia because I've never owned one. I've bought only ati cards since my first 9800 pro back in the day.
heh, im a bang for the buck kinda guy unless a product has burned me in the past, i have no loyalty to amd or intel. nvid or ati.
 

dividebyzero

Posts: 4,840   +1,264
Is it a 'crippled' flagship card, like the HD 6950 is? Or is it a redesign, such as the original GTX 560 Ti from almost one year ago? Just curious... (unlockable ???)
Salvage part like 6950. One-eighth of the shaders and TMU's inactive, lower specced memory IC's and slightly lower clock for core/shader.
Like the 6950, the inactive parts of the GPU core may not be damaged, they just don't meet the specification laid down by AMD for the top-bin 7970.
 

howzz1854

Posts: 611   +94
if it's unlockable like the 6950, i'll get one. :)

Feb isn't bad, consider most people will be getting their tax return then. i can't wait til i get my tax return.
 

lawfer

Posts: 1,268   +90
Ranger12 said:
Ya know, I thought about selling my 6870 and 5830 and buying an nvidia because I've never owned one. I've bought only ati cards since my first 9800 pro back in the day.
I used to own an ATI card, mind you, but if you've never owned an Nvidia card, the only thing I'd say is better is driver support. They usually release faster, more specific updates.
 

bandit8623

Posts: 216   +95
lawfer said:
Ranger12 said:
Ya know, I thought about selling my 6870 and 5830 and buying an nvidia because I've never owned one. I've bought only ati cards since my first 9800 pro back in the day.
I used to own an ATI card, mind you, but if you've never owned an Nvidia card, the only thing I'd say is better is driver support. They usually release faster, more specific updates.
how do they have better driver support? each release 1 driver a month, both also release beta drivers/preview drivers.

driver support is equal. only thing different is the driver interface.

which i will agree nvidia wins there, but AMD still has better speed for the money.
 

amstech

Posts: 2,621   +1,791
AMD has released nearly double the driver updates to fill in a wide range in holes/bugs/gltiches etc over the past few years, compared with Nvidia.
As far as the article I think AMD is doing this so thier sales fare better, once people saw how close the GTX 580 competes with the 7970 at 1600P and above (the reason you buy a card like this) it killed any reason to upgrade for them and several others who own 570's and 6970's.
 

Ranger12

Posts: 625   +125
I'm just an ati fanboy so yah can't really trust me when I say this but I also think ati gives me more bang for the buck. That being said, I'm also emotionally attached to my video cards. I think some of y'all can understand that whether you like ati or nvidia.
 

lawfer

Posts: 1,268   +90
bandit8623 said:
lawfer said:
Ranger12 said:
Ya know, I thought about selling my 6870 and 5830 and buying an nvidia because I've never owned one. I've bought only ati cards since my first 9800 pro back in the day.
I used to own an ATI card, mind you, but if you've never owned an Nvidia card, the only thing I'd say is better is driver support. They usually release faster, more specific updates.
how do they have better driver support? each release 1 driver a month, both also release beta drivers/preview drivers.

driver support is equal. only thing different is the driver interface.

which i will agree nvidia wins there, but AMD still has better speed for the money.
Since the unification of both mobile and desktop GPU drivers (Verde Drivers), Nvidia has literally tripled the speed of which updates are released.

Depending on some games, some beta drivers are released merely a week or so after previous WHQL drivers. For example, when Battlefield 3 was released, they pushed out the 285.62 driver, but merely two weeks later they released the 285.79 driver to improve performance. In comparison, ATI took longer.

Alternatively, putting Intel out of the picture, Nvidia holds more of the GPU marketshare (partly due to its ARM offerings), and is often sponsored by game publishers and studios (as seen when you launch a game and see Nvidia in the opening credits). When I bought my GTX 560 Ti, for instance, I got a code to download Batman: Arkham City for free from Steam. That, I'd argue, is better support.

Like I said, I owned an ATI card, but after switching to Nvidia, the only thing I like better is the faster rate in which drivers are updated. Other than that, I consider ATI card to be less expensive, and perform equally and/or better.
 

Leeky

Posts: 3,357   +116
Bummer. I'm waiting on the 7xxx series cards to come out so I can hopefully pick up another 6870 for cheap!
I can't speak for across the shores, but I recently picked up a HD6870 for £135, which considering the performance it offers its already in the bargain basement price category in my mind.
 

red1776

Posts: 5,123   +193
AMD has released nearly double the driver updates to fill in a wide range in holes/bugs/gltiches etc over the past few years, compared with Nvidia.
As far as the article I think AMD is doing this so thier sales fare better, once people saw how close the GTX 580 competes with the 7970 at 1600P and above (the reason you buy a card like this) it killed any reason to upgrade for them and several others who own 570's and 6970's.
What reviews are you reading? more pap

Adding it up from Dividebyzero:
Qoute:
EDIT: Tech Report's review in
(2560x1600)
Batman:AC +9.38% over GTX 580 (average of previous 9 reviews 19.79%)
BF3 +19.35% over GTX 580 (average of previous 14 reviews 17.38%)
Civ 5 +14.29% over GTX 580 (average of previous 3 reviews 14.56%)
Crysis 2 +24.14% over GTX 580 (average of previous 13 reviews 23.49%)
TESV +9.43% over GTX 580 (average of previous 5 reviews 19.89%)
And as for the comment-
once people saw how close the GTX 580 competes with the 7970 at 1600P and above (the reason you buy a card like this)
The gap widens when you go to multiple monitors.

From [H]ocp: ( these numbers are against an overclocked GTX 580)
The Galaxy MDT GTX 580 which, by the way is $50.00 more than the 7970

http://hardocp.com/article/2011/12/22/amd_radeon_hd_7970_video_card_review/14
 

dividebyzero

Posts: 4,840   +1,264
^^^ Hardly surprising.
40nm vs 28nm
1.5GB frame buffer vs 3GB frame buffer
Fermi arch = compute orientated (larger core/lower core speed), VLIW5/4/GCN = fillrate orientated

Surround/Eyefinity is valid, albeit for a minority of users at present, and a stronghold for AMD in single card setups...and which isn't natively supported by reference Nvidia cards (hence the lack of review benches -both from the niche perspective and the non-support by one vendor)
The gap widens when you go to multiple monitors
3-D gaming is probably no less valid as a niche market...and the gap closes quite considerably ...How many 7970 reviews ran benchmarks testing HD3D vs 3D Vision ?* And there wont be while AMD are giving out the hardware. Hardware Heaven used to include both multi-monitor and 3D multi-monitor benching...guess which one they dropped.

Imagine how John Bonham would have sounded banging on one drum. The music sounds much better with the whole kit.

(*It's less than 1...somewhat odd since HD3D features quite prominently in the reviewers guide. See page 17)
You look hard enough you can make the numbers say anything you want. Talking of which...
The Galaxy MDT GTX 580 which, by the way is $50.00 more than the 7970
The Galaxy card is $549.99 or $539.99....the 7970 is selling for $490-500 ?...I'll take two please if international shipping is an option.
the only thing I like better is the faster rate in which drivers are update.
You could also look upon it as every driver release means fixing or adding compatibility. AMD keep to a monthy driver schedule, Nvidia do not. In fact Nvidia's latest whql (285.62) debuted on the 24th October. You could also argue that issuing a raft of beta's/hotfix's shows a manufacturers commitment to it's user base-both Nvidia and AMD usually issue a non-whql for every game release. Overall what matters is the functionality - in this respect, there isn't a lot to choose between CCC and Forceware, and the gap narrows as each utilize the features of the other.
 

red1776

Posts: 5,123   +193
^^^ Hardly surprising.
40nm vs 28nm
1.5GB frame buffer vs 3GB frame buffer
Fermi arch = compute orientated (larger core/lower core speed), VLIW5/4/GCN = fillrate orientated

Surround/Eyefinity is valid, albeit for a minority of users at present, and a stronghold for AMD in single card setups...and which isn't natively supported by reference Nvidia cards (hence the lack of review benches -both from the niche perspective and the non-support by one vendor
I agree, thats why the 580 is not "on it's tail"
Are you getting many requests for 3-D? I am not at all. i am (in my anecdotal corner of the world) getting a lot of Eyefinity/multi work though.

If the GTX 780 comes out and bests the 7970 by 5%, this guy (and his ilk) will be the first ones to scream that it "crushes the 7970".

The Galaxy card is $549.99 or $539.99....the 7970 is selling for $490-500 ?...I'll take two please if international shipping is an option.
From [H]:
The Galaxy MDT GTX 580 is more expensive than the Radeon HD 7970 by about $50 This will make an interesting test as we see if the less expensive HD 7970 can provide a gameplay advantage over the Galaxy MDT GTX 580 here :here
I will be happy to send them to you...if i can find them. Told ya that a long time ago:D:p

on another subject, do you remember where that nifty multi GPU WC piece was that you showed me last year? I now need it.

http://www.dazmode.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=999 it was similar to this.
 

dividebyzero

Posts: 4,840   +1,264
I agree, thats why the 580 is not "on it's tail"
Are you getting many requests for 3-D? I am not at all. i am (in my anecdotal corner of the world) getting a lot of Eyefinity/multi work though.
Mostly still single monitor, although more people are heading towards 120Hz -not necessarily for 3D gaming though. Nvidia's 3D vision is too expensive, and AMD's HD3D isn't really working. Add in the headache issues and those are the reasons.
Likewise, most people here have to opportunity to slap together 2-3 TN panels or buy one IPS 2550x1440/1600. Most with that budget go with the better colour quality rather than the screenspace unless they are flight sim junkies.

I'd think if the multi-monitor uptake were all pervasive that 1. reviews would concentrate on 5040x1650 and higher, and 2. the Steam Hardware survey might reflect it's marketshare. I'm assuming that multi-monitor makes up the bulk of the 4.50% "Other" under the screen res (along with 2048x1152 and 2560x1600) , and of that 4.5%, a little over half would be made up of sub-4 mega pixel resolutions (under Multi-monitor category). 2 and 3 screens are obviously gaining some traction, but most people I know would go with a one larger screen with better colour reproduction.
If the GTX 780 comes out and bests the 7970 by 5%, this guy (and his ilk) will be the first ones to scream that it "crushes the 7970".
Most assuredly.Likewise, the red camp tend to take potshots to the same extent. Witness the mass howling over Bulldozer benching vs Intel...the fanboyism now seems non existant when it comes down to the benching the 7970 almost exclusively on Intel systems...even more amusing, the same people decrying Intel's "cheating ways" now start squealing that the 7970 should be benched exclusively using a PCIe 3.0 motherboard. You could add in forum trolls demanding nothing less than 8xMSAA, whereas I seem to recall (I can cite if req'd) those same people saying that 4xAA was more than adequate and benching anything higher was a designed solely to show the HD 5870 et al in a bad light (see also tessellation, extreme/DoF/HBAO/SSAO). The arguments tend to stay the same, they just get uttered by alternating camps depending on whom it suits.
And....
From [H]
The Galaxy MDT GTX 580 is more expensive than the Radeon HD 7970 by about $50 This will make an interesting test as we see if the less expensive HD 7970 can provide a gameplay advantage over the Galaxy MDT GTX 580 here :here
You know many people that would shop at Amazon in order to pay more than they would pay at Newegg given the choice?....and even if those people exist, why would you use an Amazon link when virtually every other build recommendation link you've ever posted here on Techspot leads to Newegg ? Sudden change in affiliation ?
Just as well we weren't referencing Amazon's HD 6990

BTW : The Amazon marketplace link is showing $565.35 as the cheapest on Amazon, which would still require that the 7970 sell at $34 under MSRP. Maybe it's true, since it's highly unlikely Kyle and others would weight their editorial to suit their own agendas.
 

red1776

Posts: 5,123   +193
You know many people that would shop at Amazon in order to pay more than they would pay at Newegg given the choice?....and even if those people exist, why would you use an Amazon link when virtually every other build recommendation link you've ever posted here on Techspot leads to Newegg ? Sudden change in affiliation ?
You realize that was the link from Kyles article right?

http://hardocp.com/article/2011/12/22/amd_radeon_hd_7970_video_card_review/2

Silly me, I just assumed it was because it was not availible at Newegg, look what I found
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814162092&Tpk=Galaxy MDT GeForce GTX 580

Most assuredly.Likewise, the red camp tend to take potshots to the same extent. Witness the mass howling over Bulldozer benching vs Intel...the fanboyism now seems non existant when it comes down to the benching the 7970 almost exclusively on Intel systems...even more amusing, the same people decrying Intel's "cheating ways" now start squealing that the 7970 should be benched exclusively using a PCIe 3.0 motherboard. You could add in forum trolls demanding nothing less than 8xMSAA, whereas I seem to recall (I can cite if req'd) those same people saying that 4xAA was more than adequate and benching anything higher was a designed solely to show the HD 5870 et al in a bad light (see also tessellation, extreme/DoF/HBAO/SSAO). The arguments tend to stay the same, they just get uttered by alternating camps depending on whom it suits.
and that there is the "better gaming experience" that almost anything can fall under, or be included or excluded from testing.
And....
 

dividebyzero

Posts: 4,840   +1,264
on another subject, do you remember where that nifty multi GPU WC piece was that you showed me last year? I now need it.
Try this. You just leave the taps in the ports you don't use. Are your cards reference layout? If not, you might have a problem sourcing full cover blocks. Don't think I'd recommend GPU-only blocks for a 69xx card.

EDIT:
If this is due to your system going into the Cosmos 2, I'd closely check the clearance in the roof. The one gripe that came out of the July showing- and doesn't seem to have been remedied, is that there really isn't much provision for a decent radiator in the roof. The slimmer rads seem OK, but the better performers are 54mm+ deep and there seem to be some issues with rad depth + fans.
 

ET3D

Posts: 1,694   +342
dividebyzero said:
I'm assuming that multi-monitor makes up the bulk of the 4.50% "Other" under the screen res (along with 2048x1152 and 2560x1600)
Since that category is defined as "Primary Display Resolution" I imagine you're wrong. It would be interesting to know what the multi-monitor percentage is, but I assume that isn't it.

Even if it was 4%, it would be higher than the percentage of users with highest end cards. The question isn't what percent of the population has multiple monitors, but what percent of users with cards like the 7970 or 580 (or SLI) have. My bet would be it's much higher than those with 3D.[/quote]
 

red1776

Posts: 5,123   +193
Speaking of the Steam hardware survey earlier, the results of it are to be taken with a grain of salt if not thrown out the window. i noticed that over my last four quad fire machines, it detects them as single card "no crossfire/SLI' detected" The email back from Steams customer service basically told me that yes, there are certain problems and we are working on them...this was over a year ago. There are also a number of other hardware aspects that it 'mis-detects' as well. too bad , i would actually like to have an reliable source for numbers on multi monitor. I have a suspicion it's higher than most think. i am seeing 3 wide benches starting to crop up in testing, kit Guru, Overclockers.com, [H]ocp,Hardware Heaven and others.