Revolution 11
Posts: 245 +338
Are you referring exclusively to AM5 platform or also AM4? Because I doubt the AM4 deals will get better than on Black Friday, stock will run low eventually.
AMD Ryzen 7000 is off to a slow start, Zen 4 sales are not good
- Thread starter Scorpus
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Are you referring exclusively to AM5 platform or also AM4? Because I doubt the AM4 deals will get better than on Black Friday, stock will run low eventually.
P
punctualturn
Now I wonder, maybe none of these manufacturers are in a hurry for everyone to buy the latest and greatest right now, since they want us to buy all the old stuff first...
And the suckers that do buy new (hint to the proud members of the PCMR, whom are already on their way home with a 4090 because....reasons..) they will be selling at top price and laugh all the way to the bank.
The last time I was forced to upgrade my memory for a new platform, which was skylake, the i7 CPU, memory and a good mid range motherboard came in at around €720. A zen 4 equivalent in 2022 comes in well over 1k.
The GPU price rises haven't helped. Gamers will want to put more of their budget into GPU, so they will be tempted to stick with older cheaper platforms at the moment.
The GPU price rises haven't helped. Gamers will want to put more of their budget into GPU, so they will be tempted to stick with older cheaper platforms at the moment.
alvincalmkid
Posts: 10 +5
Ryzen 5 7500 6c/12t maybe would be the best seller, at USD 175
ScottSoapbox
Posts: 1,042 +1,808
AM5 as the article I am commenting on is about 7000 series CPUs. #context
There are a lot of reasons why next gen CPUs and GPUs will not sell well,
1. Recession - Job security at risk
2. Inflation - Basic necessities cost a lot more, so expensive gadgets is going to the back burner
3. Cost - Full system cost is high. It is not just the CPU + motherboard, but you need some fairly quick DDR5 memory, decent PSU and cooling solution. It seems that the Ryzen 9 duos will require no less than AIO water coolers to get the most out of it.
4. Also related to point 3, hardware enthusiasts likely have burned themselves over the last couple of years buying very expensive CPUs and GPUs. With prices sinking and they are getting stuck with a big loss, it won't be attractive to sell it for steep loss and buy another at an inflated price. I mean if you have a lot of money to burn, then this is not a problem But I don't think "money is not an issue" applies to most people.
1. Recession - Job security at risk
2. Inflation - Basic necessities cost a lot more, so expensive gadgets is going to the back burner
3. Cost - Full system cost is high. It is not just the CPU + motherboard, but you need some fairly quick DDR5 memory, decent PSU and cooling solution. It seems that the Ryzen 9 duos will require no less than AIO water coolers to get the most out of it.
4. Also related to point 3, hardware enthusiasts likely have burned themselves over the last couple of years buying very expensive CPUs and GPUs. With prices sinking and they are getting stuck with a big loss, it won't be attractive to sell it for steep loss and buy another at an inflated price. I mean if you have a lot of money to burn, then this is not a problem But I don't think "money is not an issue" applies to most people.
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godrilla
Posts: 1,365 +893
FYI currently the 5700x is around $200 before black Friday.
and 6800xt close to $500. This black Friday you can probably spend less than $1000 on a decent rig.
and 6800xt close to $500. This black Friday you can probably spend less than $1000 on a decent rig.
The number of people who bought the last/current gen is much smaller than the number of people who own an old PC. There's no need for you to upgrade, but many others could definitely use an upgrade
That still doesn't solve the problem of Intel releasing the 13th gen ahead of AMD and crushing the 5000 series in benchmarks.
It also doesn't solve the problem of AM5 stock, it also doesn't solve the problem of OEMs having to wait with AM5 boards in stock.
It literally solves no problem. Thank god Lisa Su is the one running AMD and not you
Lord Poci
Posts: 8 +5
Yeah, I dont want to change my mobo. I think that my 3700x + 6900xt ia good for me, maybe One day I'll buy a 5800x3d. There Is no reason for me to change.
Bobbydpue
Posts: 666 +513
Why are you taking legitimate criticism so personally? The cost of a motherboard, RAM and CPU together has increased there is no objectivity to that statement it's a fact.
Where did Tim say the price of the 4090 was reasonable? Has anyone said that? Stop being such a fanboy. Go back and look at the videos Hardware Unboxed did for the 5000 series. Besides the initial pricing of the 5800x they had a bunch of good things to say about those CPU.
If you are feel the need to defend AMD as a company you need to get some perspective. AMD doesn't care about you and neither does any company the size of AMD. Hardware Unboxed just said what people need to hear. AMD will price their stuff as high as they can since it's their job to make as much money as they can, just like Intel, and just like Nvidia.
Bobbydpue
Posts: 666 +513
Why are you insulting PC enthusiasts? Do you just hate the community?
MarcusNumb
Posts: 154 +299
I don't think that AMD is not selling well. On the contrary, I think they are doing really well in terms of clearing 5000 stocks and selling new gen to high-end users.
This is what happens when you're required to buy new everything to buy the CPU along with your previous gen is still more than enough for 99% of people and is priced very fair currently.
B760 boards are not that different from B660 boards - so you only need to pay $130-150.
Yes, it is sort of test marketing - Zen 3 processors are still competitive with Alder Lake. So Zen 4 is only needed to compete with Raptor Lake. AMD still has the option to launch other Zen 4 products and I guess the focus will now turn to their mobile CPUs.
WhoCaresAnymore
Posts: 770 +1,221
Read any economic site. Only a fool will dig into their cash for stuff like this, when we are in a Recession and Inflation is utterly out of control. forcasts look terrible for the next year.
Smart people will take their income they usually use for stuff like this and stash it for a rainy day.
Smart people will take their income they usually use for stuff like this and stash it for a rainy day.
m3tavision
Posts: 1,438 +1,222
Was AM5 suppose to be a fast start...?
Didn't Dr Su say, that it would be the high-end boards first approach, which would allow them to work the backend of the supply channels, for the flow of cheaper and budget boards, that will land late October...? (All the while knowing that the Zen 3 sales are still setting records).
Myself went from a R7 1800x (8 core) and 5 years later dropped a R9 3900x (12 core) for my simulator. And just bought (for FPS gaming) an AM5 Rog HERO board w/two USB-4 ports and PCIe5 x 16 for graphics and PCIe5 x 3 for SSDs... W/cheaper R7 7700x, because in the future I can upgrade to any CPU I want... and never be behind the times, or feel out dated or left out. Just plug and play and go...
I suspect, that once budget boards land, where price/performance ratio is for budget builders, THEN you will see AM5 explode.
FWIW: Nobody who is frugal is going to buy /eol (outdated) iNTEL LGA1700 boards, that are EOL in 9 months... leaving those with zero upgrade path vs knowing that the new AM5 platform will last 5 years.
Didn't Dr Su say, that it would be the high-end boards first approach, which would allow them to work the backend of the supply channels, for the flow of cheaper and budget boards, that will land late October...? (All the while knowing that the Zen 3 sales are still setting records).
Myself went from a R7 1800x (8 core) and 5 years later dropped a R9 3900x (12 core) for my simulator. And just bought (for FPS gaming) an AM5 Rog HERO board w/two USB-4 ports and PCIe5 x 16 for graphics and PCIe5 x 3 for SSDs... W/cheaper R7 7700x, because in the future I can upgrade to any CPU I want... and never be behind the times, or feel out dated or left out. Just plug and play and go...
I suspect, that once budget boards land, where price/performance ratio is for budget builders, THEN you will see AM5 explode.
FWIW: Nobody who is frugal is going to buy /eol (outdated) iNTEL LGA1700 boards, that are EOL in 9 months... leaving those with zero upgrade path vs knowing that the new AM5 platform will last 5 years.
wiyosaya
Posts: 9,760 +9,644
Unfortunately, it seems like a chicken-egg scenario. However, I'd tend toward mb makers as the primary culprit. Just look at their marketing - Godlike, ad nauseum.
Just in case anyone is offended, I'm not specifically picking on "Godlike" because there are other marketing BS mb titles that are just as ludicrous, IMO, especially since the prices being asked fit the marketing perfectly.
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P
punctualturn
Why are you insulting PC enthusiasts? Do you just hate the community?
/S in case that its needed, but given how we are living in bizarro world...
bluetooth fairy
Posts: 235 +166
I think prev gen Ryzen 5/7/9 is enough for everything prolly except productivity guys. Also, Ryzen 5x00 was the first gen when it started to outperform Intel mainstream CPUs in gaming. Now that we have Ryzen 7x00 series which is beyond what is _really_ needed. We don't know where to use it, where 5x00 isn't strong enough? Next gen GPUs could be bottlenecked by prev gen CPUs, like x3d was mentioned in Steve@HUB review of the 4090. But we just don't know yet.
I moved from Ryzen 2600 to 5600g about a year ago, and I could feel the difference in performance very well. The jump was ~40..50% in single core. It was significant, hard to pass. 25-30% increase for 7x00 is sensible either. Is it enough to justify whole system refresh? Even with the launch of the b650 boards, it takes $700 minimum to get it, and I didn't count the cooler.
But if 5800x3d Ryzen can bottleneck next gen GPUs it's just the signal to wait a bit longer, to upgrade up to Meteor Lake or Zen5.
I moved from Ryzen 2600 to 5600g about a year ago, and I could feel the difference in performance very well. The jump was ~40..50% in single core. It was significant, hard to pass. 25-30% increase for 7x00 is sensible either. Is it enough to justify whole system refresh? Even with the launch of the b650 boards, it takes $700 minimum to get it, and I didn't count the cooler.
But if 5800x3d Ryzen can bottleneck next gen GPUs it's just the signal to wait a bit longer, to upgrade up to Meteor Lake or Zen5.
R
Red34jfp
"hopefully offering great options below $200"
From what one can gather right now there aren't many options below $200 to begin with, the cheapest motherboards start from $170, which is $55 more expensive than what AMD announced.
Another factor that you should consider, which is especially relevant for sales coming from Europe like Mindfactory's, is the strong dollar, which is working like an additional tax for people who buy in Euro and other weaker currencies. This is affecting both the new CPUs and motherboards.
From what one can gather right now there aren't many options below $200 to begin with, the cheapest motherboards start from $170, which is $55 more expensive than what AMD announced.
Another factor that you should consider, which is especially relevant for sales coming from Europe like Mindfactory's, is the strong dollar, which is working like an additional tax for people who buy in Euro and other weaker currencies. This is affecting both the new CPUs and motherboards.
20 goto 10
Posts: 6 +2
6/12 cores for £500 plus with a budget motherboard is possibly £200 too much.
I have (wait for it....) a b85 and 4790k, and am starting to look more seriously for an upgrade.
The 7600x is at a nice >%85 single core speed - great for Flight Sim et al - but how on earth could I feel a 6/12 would be as future proof as the 4790k has turned out to be, when 6/12 has already been the normal choice for gamers for five years?
Believe me, running an RTX 2070 on an 3440x1440 75fps monitor much less than 5% of games fail to attain 'nice' smooth 50-75fps frame rate due to CPU bottleneck.
On the other hand, the idea of speeding up my desktop media production with a 10/20 is genuinely very appealing.
I dunno. Seems to me >100hz monitors are oversold. Much as 24/192 audio was, is oversold. Now even cheaper monitors are frequently specced to 90 to 100hz, with adaptive sync.... no one cares. Like high bit rate sound cards stopped being a thing when people switched to bluetooth.
The reduced spec is good enough, because spec wasn't the prime cause of the annoying perceptual problems. They were elsewhere, and have been tackled extensively. Windows has improved. Drivers and games require less fiddling. Finally, 60fps+ monitors without adaptive sync are rare.
Moreover, AAA doesn't push the hardware much because the consoles, with similair grunt, are pushing 4k, higher than most PC gamers. And devs do no know PC users read performance figures for their game, and that means Ultra settings... they'd be mad to include settings that would give reviewers the chance to return scores in the 20s for mainstream GPUs.
7600X... all single core speed... therefore has realistically landed very much as a niche product. Like the RTX 4080 and 90. This stuff is exclusive. Not an amazing leap in bang for buck. Or a "must have" level in performance, if you have any concerns over price. And sadly, yep, that means that these are not amazingly well rounded offerings.
8xxxx, and presumably, moving the mainstream to 8/16, is AMD's next move. It will tie in with the 4060 and 70. No way those will be as expensive (proportionately) as the 4090.
IOW... AMD is waiting for a reboot. Their market is about as exciting as the GPU one. Dead.
I have (wait for it....) a b85 and 4790k, and am starting to look more seriously for an upgrade.
The 7600x is at a nice >%85 single core speed - great for Flight Sim et al - but how on earth could I feel a 6/12 would be as future proof as the 4790k has turned out to be, when 6/12 has already been the normal choice for gamers for five years?
Believe me, running an RTX 2070 on an 3440x1440 75fps monitor much less than 5% of games fail to attain 'nice' smooth 50-75fps frame rate due to CPU bottleneck.
On the other hand, the idea of speeding up my desktop media production with a 10/20 is genuinely very appealing.
I dunno. Seems to me >100hz monitors are oversold. Much as 24/192 audio was, is oversold. Now even cheaper monitors are frequently specced to 90 to 100hz, with adaptive sync.... no one cares. Like high bit rate sound cards stopped being a thing when people switched to bluetooth.
The reduced spec is good enough, because spec wasn't the prime cause of the annoying perceptual problems. They were elsewhere, and have been tackled extensively. Windows has improved. Drivers and games require less fiddling. Finally, 60fps+ monitors without adaptive sync are rare.
Moreover, AAA doesn't push the hardware much because the consoles, with similair grunt, are pushing 4k, higher than most PC gamers. And devs do no know PC users read performance figures for their game, and that means Ultra settings... they'd be mad to include settings that would give reviewers the chance to return scores in the 20s for mainstream GPUs.
7600X... all single core speed... therefore has realistically landed very much as a niche product. Like the RTX 4080 and 90. This stuff is exclusive. Not an amazing leap in bang for buck. Or a "must have" level in performance, if you have any concerns over price. And sadly, yep, that means that these are not amazingly well rounded offerings.
8xxxx, and presumably, moving the mainstream to 8/16, is AMD's next move. It will tie in with the 4060 and 70. No way those will be as expensive (proportionately) as the 4090.
IOW... AMD is waiting for a reboot. Their market is about as exciting as the GPU one. Dead.
AlaskaGuy
Posts: 868 +848
You left out the current cost of DDR5.
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