AMD Ryzen 7000 is off to a slow start, Zen 4 sales are not good

[m3tavision]

You left out the current cost of DDR5.

Hunh...?

My 2x16 G.Skill DDR4-4000 cas14 cost $589
My 2x16 G.Skill DDR5-6000 cas30 cost $279

Both^ are the best sticks of memory for AM4 and AM5 platforms...

 

[AlaskaGuy]

Hunh...?

My 2x16 G.Skill DDR4-4000 cas14 cost $589
My 2x16 G.Skill DDR5-6000 cas30 cost $279

Both^ are the best sticks of memory for AM4 and AM5 platforms...

And some people wonder why AM5 isn't flying off the shelves. btw my Crucial 2x16 DDR4 3600 CL16 cost me less than $120 off of Amazon last year. Was a great addition to my Alder Lake build.

 

[flee2020]

Now everyone knows what 3dcache can do and zen4 getting it next, why would you bother with non 3d? If it was a milking strategy it's failed. Should leave non 3d stuff to budget or threadripper

Yes, gamers should wait for the X3D models. Perhaps by then, mobo and DDR5 prices would have moderated.

Content creators who do a lot of rendering will want the 7950X now as they do go through those workloads far more quickly than before.

 

[Darkwingking]

I had a 5800X3D, MSI Unify X570, DDR4 3600 CL14 and 980 Pro... great system with Corsair H100i RGB PRO XT Cooler --- great system. I upgraded to a 7700X and MSI Carbon X670E free memory 5600 CL36 running at 6000 CL34 with no issues --- I can tell that in certain instances I feel faster especially browsing and accessing Windows File Explorer ... there is a noticeable difference. Kit Guru did a review on the 7700X during the inception phase --- that article convinced me to drive 4 hours there and back to Micro Center just for that combo deal! I paid $918 altogether for this combo deal, I thought that I was good up until that point. I was looking for supreme performance outside of gaming without utilizing 12(24) or more cores! I sold the board for 140+user paid for the shipping. The processor was sold for $354 including shipping | the memory didn't do so well it sold for $65 but I paid the shipping - I just chalked it up as part of the game! Right to it -- with this 7700X with -50mv undervolted - idle temps sit around 42 - 46 (ideal) my clock for single core is 5.54 for two cores #1, #7 all core is 5.1-5.23 depending on the load!

 

[inhility]

Hunh...?

My 2x16 G.Skill DDR4-4000 cas14 cost $589
My 2x16 G.Skill DDR5-6000 cas30 cost $279

Both^ are the best sticks of memory for AM4 and AM5 platforms...

The vast majority of buyers won't even consider either in their shopping list. I get that these forums are mostly for hardcores but if we want to talk about market at large, hardcore community represents a very small slice of pie.

 

[zamroni111]

Amd prefers to sell the chiplets as epyc server processors to maximize profit anyway

 

[Marco Mint]

I've a large budget available for my next build, as I held onto my old 4790k due to being unwilling to pay scalper prices on AM4. The motherboard prices on AM5 are madness though. Sure, I have the funds to pay it, but that does not mean I want to.
I've decided to wait until at least the new year, when competition and prices settle down. Also, bios updates will be more mature and I'll have more choice before deciding. Seeing how the X3D chips perform would be nice too.

 

[m3tavision]

And some people wonder why AM5 isn't flying off the shelves. btw my Crucial 2x16 DDR4 3600 CL16 cost me less than $120 off of Amazon last year. Was a great addition to my Alder Lake build.

But today.... Intel's LGA1700 is /eol. So there is a cost to get over the EOL.

 

[Shadowarez]

When the scalping of the Nvidia RTX 4090 Slows I'm sure bots will start scalping these or the 3D V-cache Variants.

For me seeing these in stock in Canada in @memory Express and they will allow online shipping shows just how bad this is the 5950x was outa stock and when in stock wasn't available for shipping online for nearly 8 months.

Had to resort to getting my Brother to go to the store physically and grab one when it was his turn to be allowed to buy 1.

 

[Avro Arrow]

This comes to me as no surprise because Zen3 is still fantastic and less than half the price. AMD really shot themselves in the foot by having AM5 boards only accepting DDR5 before DDR5 became affordable. For decades, hardware advancement has rapidly outpaced software advancement so we're in a situation where tonnes of satisfied Ryzen owners see no need to upgrade at this time because Zen3 is still killing it from a priceerformance perspective. Performance gains that are offered by Intel 12th-gen and Zen4, while not insignificant, are not sought after at this time by the vast majority of users because Zen3 is still blazingly fast.

Compounding the problem is that the average consumer is under considerable financial strain from inflation caused by fuel costs skyrocketing. They have no interest in paying exorbitant amounts of money for RAM and motherboards when what they're currently using works just fine, especially after many were fleeced on new video cards. On the day that Zen4 came out, I personally upgraded from an R5-3600X to an R7-5700X and I only did that because the price of the 5700X dropped by $70 on that day.

I can tell you that my 3600X is more than fast enough and I only bought the 5700X because the price dropped to $310CAD. The 5700X is wickedly fast and I expect my next upgrade will be me dropping a 5800X3D into my motherboard, even if I have to buy that CPU in advance. That will save me a pantload on RAM and a motherboard, something that I will possibly invest in a better video card. Even then though, I have an RX 6800 XT so it will be ages before I need to consider doing even that!

Sure, I might still be using DDR4 when DDR6 comes out but at least I'll have 32GB of it!

 

[Avro Arrow]

When your talking about $1000+ for just the CPU, Motherboard & RAM, is it any wonder sales are slow.

Yeah, but that's not out of the realm of the ordinary. I typically budget about $1000 for a platform upgrade but when I don't have to, I don't. The problem here is that nobody needs it because Zen3 is still a beast. Let's be real here, the AM4 platform is one of the best-selling platforms in PC history. To anyone with a Zen, Zen+ or Zen2 CPU, the most natural upgrade path is a Zen3 part because you still get to leverage your current mobo and RAM. Also, even if you only have PCI-Express v3.0, you won't notice a difference unless you have an RX 6500 XT (I still don't know why they gave it the XT suffix), which most people did not buy.

I mean, sure, PCI-Express v4.0 is nice and SAM's a cool feature but they're not anything that really impacts the overall performance of your PC in any way that you'd definitely notice. For gamers with an AM4 platform, nothing would be better than the 5800X3D based on the performance numbers compared to the Zen4 parts. I personally just chose the 5700X because it was half the price of the 5800X3D and I liked the low (65W) TDP. The gaming performance of the 5700X is still beyond what I would call perfect so it was a good choice. My next upgrade will be to drop in a 5800X3D so the AM4 platform isn't quite as dead as people think.

The AM4 platform is the greatest PC platform ever released up to this point and it's not even close. It's like AMD's "GTX 1080 Ti" moment in that their offering was so good that nobody was really in a hurry to upgrade from it. This one platform is the consumer side of Zen which brought AMD from the brink of insolvency to being the undisputed CPU market leader (just look at what EPYC has done to Xeon) which speaks volumes about how great it really is.

This will be the case with all new stuff this time: Intel Arc and 13 gen, AMD 7000 both CPU and GPU and Nvidia 4000 . All will have low sales for new gen no matter what they do. The market it's saturated and feed up with last two years. Also last gen it's not garbage compared to new one, people will hold them longer.

Exactly! AM4 is still a viable platform.

We all should wait buying new stuff for at least 5-6 months, after 3-4 quarters of low sales they would reconsider their strategy and adjust prices accordingly.

I plan to wait for YEARS and even then, my next computer upgrade will be an R7-5800X3D. Hell, I have 32GB of DDR4 so I may as well ride it for as long as possible!

This winter will be a bad time for Europe with energy prices.

That it will my friend, that it will. I commend all Europeans for being willing to do the right thing even if they're suffering instead of whining about every little thing like so many on the West side of the Atlantic do. Respect to you.

After seeing the prices of the 7000 series, and the 600 series boards, I'm tempted to do the same, grab an A520 board for my media PC, and just upgrade it with older parts. I dont really want to pay $1000 for entry level AM5.

Well, yeah, it's not like media PCs need much. I bet that you could run a 4K media PC just with an Athlon APU. It doesn't take much for 2D graphics.

Edgy...I'd like some opinions from members who are thinking of upgrading their AMD systems.

Unicorns don't exist.

It is the motherboard and DDR5 prices that have gone crazy. The 7600X is expensive but it is to be expected for a new tech CPU - it should be sold at a more realistic price in about 6-12 months. It is not surprising that the 7950X is the top seller at launch. It is the "value" CPU here - it has great price-performance.

It's also the CPU that would be most suitable for the one sector that will actually buy these right away, productivity.

I had planned to get a 7700x at launch and decided to not to. I was disappointed with the default TDP and could not find a motherboard I liked that wasn't scalper priced. At this point, I'm going to wait and see what Intel is going to offer before I decide what to buy for my new build.

What do you currently have? If it's AM4, don't bother, just get a 5600-5700X if you don't already have a 5000-series and get a 5800X3d if you do already have a 5000-series. This assumes that you're a gamer of course. If you bought an Intel platform during the AM4 era, well, you're screwed.

Maybe they should focus more on less power and heat. That is the thing that stops me from buying them.

What do you have at the moment?

I may also build a HTPC/Steambox when they release a good new APU.

If you want to build an HTPC, why would you use Zen4?

You could build a perfect HTPC with an old Athlon 200GE APU and 8GB of DDR4 on a Biostar A320 motherboard. It doesn't make sense to build an HTPC based on Zen4 & RDNA2 because it won't perform any better than an HTPC based on Zen & Vega. It doesn't take much CPU or GPU power to play 4K videos and perfect 4K playback was achieved in APUs around 2015 with the FM2+ APUs like A10-7890K. If I wanted to build an HTPC, I'd use a new case and some spare parts lying around.

 

[lripplinger]

AM4 is tempting me right now. The Ryzen 7 5800x is a great price at $269. Throw in a nice B550 Asus Strix board, and that is one hell of an upgrade over my dinosaur i5-4670k currently. DDR4 Ram is cheap for 32GB, too.

 

[AlaskaGuy]

AM4 is tempting me right now. The Ryzen 7 5800x is a great price at $269. Throw in a nice B550 Asus Strix board, and that is one hell of an upgrade over my dinosaur i5-4670k currently. DDR4 Ram is cheap for 32GB, too.

5700x is even cheaper atm.

 

[takaozo]

5700x is even cheaper atm.

In my country 5600G, 5600 and 5600x are in top 3 sales at major resellers.
Followed by 11400F and 12400F.
5700x arrived to late but 5800x is #7.

5600x was best bang for buck at $180 since I only use the system for gaming.
I didn't see any advantage to go with 5800x since I'm not streaming or content creation.

 

[m3tavision]

I mean, sure, PCI-Express v4.0 is nice and SAM's a cool feature but they're not anything that really impacts the overall performance of your PC in any way that you'd definitely notice. For gamers with an AM4 platform, nothing would be better than the 5800X3D based on the performance numbers compared to the Zen4 parts. I personally just chose the 5700X because it was half the price of the 5800X3D and I liked the low (65W) TDP. The gaming performance of the 5700X is still beyond what I would call perfect so it was a good choice. My next upgrade will be to drop in a 5800X3D so the AM4 platform isn't quite as dead as people think.

The AM4 platform is the greatest PC platform ever released up to this point and it's not even close. It's like AMD's "GTX 1080 Ti" moment in that their offering was so good that nobody was really in a hurry to upgrade from it. This one platform is the consumer side of Zen which brought AMD from the brink of insolvency to being the undisputed CPU market leader (just look at what EPYC has done to Xeon) which speaks volumes about how great it really is.

Exactly! AM4 is still a viable platform.

I plan to wait for YEARS and even then, my next computer upgrade will be an R7-5800X3D. Hell, I have 32GB of DDR4 so I may as well ride it for as long as possible!


What do you currently have? If it's AM4, don't bother, just get a 5600-5700X if you don't already have a 5000-series and get a 5800X3d if you do already have a 5000-series. This assumes that you're a gamer of course. If you bought an Intel platform during the AM4 era, well, you're screwed.

If you are building a Computer TODAY... then it is prudent to build an AM5 rig.

The upgrade path for AM4 is EOL, so going that route is pointless as you do not have a future, just like with going with LGA1700. If you already have a old AM4 rig, just buy a 5800X3D and you are good for another few years.


But, you keep telling people to BUILD a new AM4 rig and that is NOT sound advice, now that AM5 is out.

First, the 7700x is faster than the 5800X3D. So you can buy a 7700x and in 2026 (4 years) drop a 12-Core super gaming chip in your old AM5 rig, making it new again.

Second, PCIe 5.0 means that your AM5 is ready for any future upgrade and you will gain additional performance as you upgrade. With greater sub-system performance, will allow you to take more advantage of SAM and Microsoft's DirectStorage, etc..
^^ THAT DO speed up Games and Gaming. ^^


Again, if you already have an AM4 rig, upgrade to latest Gaming CPU. If not build an AM5 and be ready for the next 4-6 years.

 

[inhility]

Most people will more than have their needs served for 4-6 years building AM4 platform NOW. Absolutely nothing but very specific workload even saturates PCIE 4.0 and only competitive gamers need the CPU power for 1080p super high FPS gaming. So long as hardcore and these execs can't see beyond this, they'll keep scratching their heads why latest and greatest aren't always what most people want especially when it costs like 3x-5x than what it gets to fulfill their needs.

 

[m3tavision]

Most people will more than have their needs served for 4-6 years building AM4 platform NOW. Absolutely nothing but very specific workload even saturates PCIE 4.0 and only competitive gamers need the CPU power for 1080p super high FPS gaming. So long as hardcore and these execs can't see beyond this, they'll keep scratching their heads why latest and greatest aren't always what most people want especially when it costs like 3x-5x than what it gets to fulfill their needs.

People who do that^, will be stuck.

Re: IO systems are getting a massive upgrade with AM5 and we've already seen that NVidia's drivers are having driver performance issues with slower platforms, now that reviewers are able to test on AM5 systems and see the scaling in games.

In may cases upgrading you CPU is one of the best ways of increasing a GPU's performance (There are many CPU review sites that illustrate this).

But.. if you are starting from scratch, it is a vastly superior decision to forgoe the upfront cost of AM5 platform, and future proof yourself from many headaches down the road. Specially if you are building a new rig for gaming...

The advantages of AM5 Socket is why a cheap Ryzen 7000 series CPU beats a higher priced Ryzen 5000 series (& Intel) in gaming. Because it's a Computer System and new kinds of performance is found in the subsystems and new socket pin design. (Such as PCIe 5.0 SSDs that do 14k write speeds, vs 7k PCIe 4.0 and how bandwidth ties into the new technologies like SAM and MS own Direct Storage, in DX12 games).


Secondly, about 1080p. Little kids are not the ones buying $600+ dGPU and many adults have been gaming @ 1440p for over 10 years now... and moving on to 4k. 1440p is where 80% of the Gaming market is headed, the other 20% is 4k... That is what this rat-race is all about, what GPU will push 1440p games to the level of 120hz -144Hz -266Hz Monitor that I am buying..? (Logically, you match your GPU to your Monitor's abilities.)

Honestly, nobody cares about 1080p gaming or 1080p dGPU's... they have PS5 & XSX that push that at 120Hz.

 

[fps4ever]

People who do that^, will be stuck.

Re: IO systems are getting a massive upgrade with AM5 and we've already seen that NVidia's drivers are having driver performance issues with slower platforms, now that reviewers are able to test on AM5 systems and see the scaling in games.

In may cases upgrading you CPU is one of the best ways of increasing a GPU's performance (There are many CPU review sites that illustrate this).

But.. if you are starting from scratch, it is a vastly superior decision to forgoe the upfront cost of AM5 platform, and future proof yourself from many headaches down the road. Specially if you are building a new rig for gaming...

The advantages of AM5 Socket is why a cheap Ryzen 7000 series CPU beats a higher priced Ryzen 5000 series (& Intel) in gaming. Because it's a Computer System and new kinds of performance is found in the subsystems and new socket pin design. (Such as PCIe 5.0 SSDs that do 14k write speeds, vs 7k PCIe 4.0 and how bandwidth ties into the new technologies like SAM and MS own Direct Storage, in DX12 games).


Secondly, about 1080p. Little kids are not the ones buying $600+ dGPU and many adults have been gaming @ 1440p for over 10 years now... and moving on to 4k. 1440p is where 80% of the Gaming market is headed, the other 20% is 4k... That is what this rate race is all about, what GPU will push 1440p games to the level of 120hz -144Hz -266Hz Monitor that I am buying..? (Logically, you match your GPU to your Monitor's abilities.)

Honestly, nobody cares about 1080p gaming or 1080p dGPU's... they have PS5 & XSX that push that at 120Hz.

Steam survey says 1080P pc gaming is at 66%+. Nothing else comes remotely close, 1440P is the next closest at 11%+. It's not happening as fast as you think it is.

 

[takaozo]

Steam survey says 1080P pc gaming is at 66%+. Nothing else comes remotely close, 1440P is the next closest at 11%+. It's not happening as fast as you think it is.

3840 x 2160 is only 2.46% on Steam.
Cyberpunk 2077 only get 71.2fps on native resolution without RT and DLLS for mighty 4090 for $2000.
83 fps on 5800x3d from TS review.

RDR2 barely hit 100 fps same settings.
This is from the TPU review using a 5800x.

I really want to see 4090 re-tested on 13900k and 7950x to see if CPU was or not the bottleneck.

I wonder how many fps ADA and RDNA3 will do for GTA VI at 4K. Seeing the leaks 2080ti barely did 30 fps.

 

[inhility]

Modern CPUs are only the bottleneck once you get to hundreds FPS.

 

[Rq3EWAq]

Of course new socket sales are not as good as previous CPU-only upgrades.

New socket required new everything. Processor upgrade on same socket requires only new CPU.
My main rig - 5800X + ASUS PRIME B550 + 64GB DDR4 ECC UDIMM RAM works perfectly well, and it will be for a next couple of years at least. No reasonable gains if I would to upgrade everything today. I'll wait.

 

[Bobbydpue]

Hunh...?

My 2x16 G.Skill DDR4-4000 cas14 cost $589
My 2x16 G.Skill DDR5-6000 cas30 cost $279

Both^ are the best sticks of memory for AM4 and AM5 platforms...

Why would anyone buy DDR4 cas14 for that much when the performance drop for 3600 isn't significant for the money.

 

[m3tavision]

Steam survey says 1080P pc gaming is at 66%+. Nothing else comes remotely close, 1440P is the next closest at 11%+. It's not happening as fast as you think it is.

EXACTLY, you just made my entire point... all those who are with small monitors @ 1080p will be looking forward to moving to cheap 1440p monitors at larger sizes... and be buying GPU that support them.

THAT^ will be the FOCUS.

 

[m3tavision]

Why would anyone buy DDR4 cas14 for that much when the performance drop for 3600 isn't significant for the money.

lol... because stable fabric means something.

 

[fps4ever]

EXACTLY, you just made my entire point... all those who are with small monitors @ 1080p will be looking forward to moving to cheap 1440p monitors at larger sizes... and be buying GPU that support them.

THAT^ will be the FOCUS.

There are large monitors that come in 1080P as well. Along with millions of large screen 1080P TV's used for gaming. Of course its going to happen eventually but the vast majority of people don't upgrade like enthusiasts so it will be a SLOW process.