AMD Ryzen: Prices revealed, no Windows 7 support, smaller than Skylake

Raiderman

TS Booster
Nice rant... since you seem to love using the crappier (yet cheaper) option - why don't you just buy a new PC, use Windows 10 (and Google how to make it just as "good" as your beloved, if inferior, Windows 7) and stick a cheaper Ryzen CPU into it?
Sorry Windows 10 malware edition with its "non power user" interface, revolving updates which make it a "beta" forever, and horrible aesthetics will never be as "good" as Windows 7. Windows 10 is only superior in that it has DX 12, which ATM has no advantages over DX 11.
 
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cliffordcooley

TS Redneck
Sorry Windows 10 malware edition with its "non power user" interface, revolving updates which make it a "beta" forever, and horrible aesthetics will never be as "good" as Windows 7. Windows 10 is only superior in that it has DX 12, which ATM has no advantages over DX 11.
While I agree, I did decide to move forward.
Can have my copy as well.
I can't say that. I did jump on the upgrade bandwagon. That doesn't mean I can't still ***** about I though.
 
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stateofjermaine

TS Rookie
I believe area is referring to core size in the above table. AMD is saying their cores are physically smaller, making them more efficient and all the other benefits of reduced size. For a consumer, this doesn't matter.
I'm wondering—affects TDP, does it not? 65W is pretty low for high-end.
 

C Lane

TS Member
Nice rant... since you seem to love using the crappier (yet cheaper) option - why don't you just buy a new PC, use Windows 10 (and Google how to make it just as "good" as your beloved, if inferior, Windows 7) and stick a cheaper Ryzen CPU into it?

While we don't have any official benchmarks, it DOES look like Ryzen will be competitive for the first time.... and again, 50% of the market being on Windows 7 is a VERY misleading statistic. That's 50% of the ALREADY OWNED market... Since these are NEW CPU's and will almost certainly be going on NEW PCs, the market will be HEAVILY slanted towards Windows 10.
I know, sad isn't it... Uncle Bill and all his cohorts will be privy to everything you do online, and profit form it... Or worse...
 

C Lane

TS Member
Well, I can't understand why you elected to give us such a long winded and pedantic CPU history lecture, and at the expense of quoting another member's post so you could talk down to him, along with he rest of us.

As for you forking over way too much money for a top end CPU, relax, we all have pasts of which we're sometimes not proud.:D But isn't that an ego driven "blunder"? A mistake born out of insecurity, and a need to perceive yourself as the "top dawg of the desktop", in your immediate social group?

As far as "trust" goes between M$ and it's customers, it was actually those customers who struck the first blow. After all, M$ really did need to install the activation paradigm in Windows XP. Otherwise, people would have just continued copying their next door neighbors edition. Humorously, without the activation protocol, Windows as an operating system, might have become a pyramid scheme in reverse gone horribly awry.

So, save for the "tragically hip" literary styling of your post, nothing you've said is anywhere close to being new business. Although doubtless you felt you were on some "bold new frontier of journalism", while you penned it.

While I applaud you your considerable effort, along with your much self ballyhooed arrival here at Techspot, nothing you've said amounts to more than, a repetitive monologue of the painfully obvious.

So, while I'm at it and FWIW, "welcome to Techspot". :p
LMAO... Actually wasn't directed at him at all, didn't mean to leave that impression and talking down to him would have been that last thing I wanted to do. Thus my opening with, "Agreed". Thanks for the welcome. Oh, and I guess because a diatribe seemed woefully inappropriate. I even appreciated the compendiary review.
 

Squid Surprise

TS Evangelist
I know, sad isn't it... Uncle Bill and all his cohorts will be privy to everything you do online, and profit form it... Or worse...
While this thread has somehow become the "rant on Windows 10 thread", let's try not to forget the actual point of the article... something about Ryzen? While there's now 5 pages of commentary here, AMD has simply decided to not support old OSes on their new CPU because the vast majority of NEW PC purchases will have Windows 10... it's really not that hard to understand...
 

Raiderman

TS Booster
While this thread has somehow become the "rant on Windows 10 thread", let's try not to forget the actual point of the article... something about Ryzen? While there's now 5 pages of commentary here, AMD has simply decided to not support old OSes on their new CPU because the vast majority of NEW PC purchases will have Windows 10... it's really not that hard to understand...
The article states AMD will not support Windows 7, which is not a rant, it is ludicrous. Obviously you have not been around the tech scene very long. You saying that "its really not that hard to understand" shows that fact. NOT having backwards COMPATIBILITY in x86/x64 architecture, is UNPRECEDENTED. Meaning, they have always had support for OS's that were NOT at EOL (End of Life). Meaning OS's back to, and including Windows 7.
MS is strong arming OEM's to not support anything but Windows 10, which is also unprecedented.
 

Squid Surprise

TS Evangelist
The article states AMD will not support Windows 7, which is not a rant, it is ludicrous. Obviously you have not been around the tech scene very long. You saying that "its really not that hard to understand" shows that fact. NOT having backwards COMPATIBILITY in x86/x64 architecture, is UNPRECEDENTED. Meaning, they have always had support for OS's that were NOT at EOL (End of Life). Meaning OS's back to, and including Windows 7.
MS is strong arming OEM's to not support anything but Windows 10, which is also unprecedented.
Except it isn't unprecedented.... Skylake initially didn't support it nor will Kaby Lake.... Support and compatibility are not the same - Ryzen will work fine with Wibdows 7.... It just won't be supported
 

captaincranky

TechSpot Addict
I don't suppose anyone has considered the fact the the new "Ryzen" chips are smaller than Intel's, is because they don't have integrated graphics.

Which means, the reason they're smaller isn't because of any big technological breakthrough, it's because they left half the circuitry, off the die.l
 

Raiderman

TS Booster
Except it isn't unprecedented.... Skylake initially didn't support it nor will Kaby Lake.... Support and compatibility are not the same - Ryzen will work fine with Wibdows 7.... It just won't be supported
It is unprecedented to not have backwards compatibility with OS's that are still under support, or not EOL. Why is that? MS wants to force everyone to Windows 10, by using scare tactics and strong arming. Skylake was only supported, because Microsoft knuckled from the pressure put on them from the OEM's. Windows 7 official EOL is 2020, so why am I or anyone else not afforded the "official" support for a product that we paid money for? We do not want Windows 10 malware edition, and should be allowed the "full" benefits of an OS that is still in service, including being able to upgrade "officially". I am aware that Kaby Lake will still function on a Win 7 platform, as Ryzen most likely will, but using scare tactics to force the less tech savvy into upgrading, is just another nail in the soon to be Microsoft coffin.
 

Squid Surprise

TS Evangelist
It is unprecedented to not have backwards compatibility with OS's that are still under support, or not EOL. Why is that? MS wants to force everyone to Windows 10, by using scare tactics and strong arming. Skylake was only supported, because Microsoft knuckled from the pressure put on them from the OEM's. Windows 7 official EOL is 2020, so why am I or anyone else not afforded the "official" support for a product that we paid money for? We do not want Windows 10 malware edition, and should be allowed the "full" benefits of an OS that is still in service, including being able to upgrade "officially". I am aware that Kaby Lake will still function on a Win 7 platform, as Ryzen most likely will, but using scare tactics to force the less tech savvy into upgrading, is just another nail in the soon to be Microsoft coffin.
So apparently you don't understand what the word "unprecedented" means.... Since this HAS happened before, it isn't unprecedented... And YOU may not want Windows 10 - but there are lots who do... I suggest you check out yesterday's "5 tech tips" for Windows 10 which details a few ways to make Windows 10 less "malware"... Google (which I previously posted that you could use) will also help you, but I guess that was a bit too difficult for you.
 

Raiderman

TS Booster
Since skylake and kaby lake have had such close release dates, I was considering it the same point in history. 5 tech tips to make Windows 10 "less" malware, makes me laugh. Thats like taking 50% percent of the viruses off your machine and saying it is now fixed. Stupid is, as stupid does. You must be one of those kiddos that has a hard time relating, so he/she results to insults. If we want to got that direction we can. You can start by wiping that kool aid off that prepubescent fuzz you call a mustache, and take your crayola written resume to Microsoft Corporation,Corporate Headquarters, One Microsoft Way, Redmond, WA 98052-6399, and show them how you know how to use google and understand how 5 tech tips can lessen the malware on their shiny new mobile OS for desktop. Then and only then would I think you have any sort of credibility to post about something you obviously received for Christmas from Mommy, and Daddy.
 

captaincranky

TechSpot Addict
Except it isn't unprecedented.... Skylake initially didn't support it nor will Kaby Lake.... Support and compatibility are not the same - Ryzen will work fine with Wibdows 7.... It just won't be supported
"Support", at its most basic level, requires that manufacturers write drivers for their product. This is especially true of Intel, since they require the complex HDMI sound and video driver for their IGP. Intel has condescended to issue drivers for Skylake, but we don't know yet, if they will countermand mighty M$' wishes, and write said drivers for Kaby Lake and beyond.

As far as the Windows 10, "Malware Edition" goes, the telemetry is but a fraction of the problem. There are the unavoidable, unpreventable updates, unwanted excursions to the M$ store, the lack of WMC, which as I understand it, has become, "optional at extra cost". (Hey maybe that's what those trips to the MS store are for, so you can buy WMC, which used to be free). Now let's see what else Win 10 won't do on its own. Play a DVD, um, not sure But most importantly, I doubt any of those extended features like the "Siri clone", will work without being connected to the web. Which brings us right back to the telemetry bullsh!t.

In fact, Windows 10 is the first M$ OS, being made available ONLY in suppository form...:eek: It seen to get stuffed up your behind, whether you want it there or not. :D (At least if you were dumb enough to have Win 7 updates turned on in the first place).

Now, I've experienced this with you before. (At great length). When you think you're right, you seem to convince yourself you are absolutely right, and blather on. Now, I suggest a better, more constructive of your time, would be to toddle off and go back to talking down to your kindergarten classes. Who knows, maybe you'll be able to sculpt the hearts and minds of future M$ Windows 10 users. In fact, I'll be disappointed at you if you don't have them shouting, "hail big brother", by end of day.

And as far as I'm concerned, "those people who want Windows 10", don't know enough to make an informed decision.
 
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HardReset

TS Guru
I don't suppose anyone has considered the fact the the new "Ryzen" chips are smaller than Intel's, is because they don't have integrated graphics.

Which means, the reason they're smaller isn't because of any big technological breakthrough, it's because they left half the circuitry, off the die.l
If you look more closely that comparison, it left out integrated graphics and compared only CPU die.

Also not all Intel CPU's, like i7-6900K, has integrated graphics.

And btw, while Ryzen is SOC (integrated SATA and USB controllers), Intel CPU's are not.
 

captaincranky

TechSpot Addict
If you look more closely that comparison, it left out integrated graphics and compared only CPU die.

Also not all Intel CPU's, like i7-6900K, has integrated graphics.

And btw, while Ryzen is SOC (integrated SATA and USB controllers), Intel CPU's are not.
Well first I stand corrected.
And second, I'd like to congratulate AMD on their superlative wielding of advance hype, and structured use of the dramatic pause. It's just that I can't hold my breath any more waiting for these things to hit to market..:D

Up to now I had thought that SoC was the best strategy for $50, throw away devices. Oh well, live and learn. Perhaps I've fallen prey to industry hype in that regard.

As far as one 14nm core being smaller than an other, while it may increase yield, it might also increase defects.

Above and beyond this discussion, I'm waiting to see who makes it to 10nm first. After all, many people here, who likely couldn't breadboard at crystal radio, seem to think that jump in process is "easy", and they're entitled to it. Meanwhile, Intel is out to thwart their dreams of absolute domination in PC games by, "sandbagging it".
 

HardReset

TS Guru
Well first I stand corrected.
And second, I'd like to congratulate AMD on their superlative wielding of advance hype, and structured use of the dramatic pause. It's just that I can't hold my breath any more waiting for these things to hit to market..:D

Up to now I had thought that SoC was the best strategy for $50, throw away devices. Oh well, live and learn. Perhaps I've fallen prey to industry hype in that regard.
SoC approach with Ryzen has at least two big advantages:

- Small motherboards (mini-ITX or even some micro-ATX) do not require chipset. Connectivity is limited but leaving chipset out makes motherboard design much easier and cheaper.

- Having some USB/SATA/NVME on CPU greatly reduces traffic between CPU and chipset. On Z270 boards single NVME drive can consume all bandwidth between CPU and chipset. Ryzen CPU has two SATA Express buses, so it's easy to configure x4 NVME slot connected to Ryzen CPU. That slot does not consume bandwidth between CPU and chipset.
 

captaincranky

TechSpot Addict
Having some USB/SATA/NVME on CPU greatly reduces traffic between CPU and chipset. On Z270 boards single NVME drive can consume all bandwidth between CPU and chipset.
Isn't having those functions inside the CPU consuming bandwidth as the CPU, "talks to itself"?

Ryzen CPU has two SATA Express buses, so it's easy to configure x4 NVME slot connected to Ryzen CPU. That slot does not consume bandwidth between CPU and chipset.
Congratulations again to AMD for the invention of the perpetual motion machine. You are after all, describing a system whereby the CPU receives and decodes data from the buss without "bandwidth".

But bear with me, I'm a Luddite, lacking in tech knowledge.
 

HardReset

TS Guru
Isn't having those functions inside the CPU consuming bandwidth as the CPU, "talks to itself"?
Not comsuming bandwidth from chipset-CPU link. That's quite bad bottleneck.

Congratulations again to AMD for the invention of the perpetual motion machine. You are after all, describing a system whereby the CPU receives and decodes data from the buss without "bandwidth".

But bear with me, I'm a Luddite, lacking in tech knowledge.
As I already said, bottleneck is between CPU and chipset. NVME connected directly to CPU with PCI Express does not consume bandwidth between CPU and chipset.
 

Squid Surprise

TS Evangelist
Since skylake and kaby lake have had such close release dates, I was considering it the same point in history. 5 tech tips to make Windows 10 "less" malware, makes me laugh. Thats like taking 50% percent of the viruses off your machine and saying it is now fixed. Stupid is, as stupid does. You must be one of those kiddos that has a hard time relating, so he/she results to insults. If we want to got that direction we can. You can start by wiping that kool aid off that prepubescent fuzz you call a mustache, and take your crayola written resume to Microsoft Corporation,Corporate Headquarters, One Microsoft Way, Redmond, WA 98052-6399, and show them how you know how to use google and understand how 5 tech tips can lessen the malware on their shiny new mobile OS for desktop. Then and only then would I think you have any sort of credibility to post about something you obviously received for Christmas from Mommy, and Daddy.
They were released over a year apart (Aug 2015 and January 2017), but hey... that's almost the same... still not "unprecedented"... And you really just don't understand my point... I'm not declaring Windows 10 the greatest thing since sliced bread here... I'm just saying that it's really not that hard to "tinker" with it in order to make it more or less the same as Windows 7 if you really desire it... Techspot's article was just a BEGINNING point to do that - once again I refer you to Google to make any other changes you feel necessary.

The real point, which for some reason you have completely missed, is that Windows 10 WILL be the OS of the future - crappy or not - and that AMD is NOT shortsighted by only providing support for it in their new CPU lineup.... this is pretty much proven by Intel's decision to do the EXACT SAME THING!!

So let's sum up: On my side are Intel, AMD, Microsoft.... on your side are a few cranky trolls who are outraged that you won't be able to use your old OS on your brand new PC that you don't even have yet.... explain again why your opinion must be correct?