AMD Ryzen: Prices revealed, no Windows 7 support, smaller than Skylake

captaincranky

TechSpot Addict
...[ ]....The real point, which for some reason you have completely missed, is that Windows 10 WILL be the OS of the future - crappy or not - and that AMD is NOT shortsighted by only providing support for it in their new CPU lineup.... this is pretty much proven by Intel's decision to do the EXACT SAME THING!! ....[ ]....
Ooh, capital letters, that lets us know you mean business, fer shur! :eek:

.So let's sum up: On my side are Intel, AMD, Microsoft.... on your side are a few cranky trolls who are outraged that you won't be able to use your old OS on your brand new PC that you don't even have yet.... explain again why your opinion must be correct?
Let's be clear, M$, Intel, and AMD are on their side, NOT YOURS!. If people weren't so desperate, needy, gullible, pliable, stupid, and easily led, we wouldn't be genuflecting to some a**hole, whose sales tactics might be more appropriate in a New Delhi bazaar, and M$ would have put DX12 into Windows 7, Service Pack 2.
 
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Raiderman

TS Booster
...[ ]....The real point, which for some reason you have completely missed, is that Windows 10 WILL be the OS of the future - crappy or not - and that AMD is NOT shortsighted by only providing support for it in their new CPU lineup.... this is pretty much proven by Intel's decision to do the EXACT SAME THING!! ....[ ]....

You seem confident that Windows 10 "WILL" be the OS of the future. Did you have the same conclusion for Windows 8.1? All new PC's were released with that OS installed as well, yet it never became more than a blip on the radar. Today 8.1 has less market share than a 15+ year old OS in XP. Windows 10 adoption has slowed to a crawl even with new PC sales. If MS fails to overtake Windows 7 in market share, they will scrap it as they did 8.1, and start over again. That is the MS way.
 
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Squid Surprise

TS Evangelist
...[ ]....The real point, which for some reason you have completely missed, is that Windows 10 WILL be the OS of the future - crappy or not - and that AMD is NOT shortsighted by only providing support for it in their new CPU lineup.... this is pretty much proven by Intel's decision to do the EXACT SAME THING!! ....[ ]....

You seem confident that Windows 10 "WILL" be the OS of the future. Did you have the same conclusion for Windows 8.1? All new PC's were released with that OS installed as well, yet it never became more than a blip on the radar. Today 8.1 has less market share than a 15+ year old OS in XP. Windows 10 adoption has slowed to a crawl even with new PC sales. If MS fails to overtake Windows 7 in market share, they will scrap it as they did 8.1, and start over again. That is the MS way.
Well, Microsoft has declared that Windows 10 will be their last OS, so that's why I'm pretty confident that it will be the "OS of the future"... since there are no other options other than linux, which is a tiny % at best...and even assuming MS decides to "scrap it", that only means it will be replaced with Windows 11 (or whatever MS decides to name it) which will still leave Windows 7 and 8 users SOL when buying new PCs...

When Windows 8 was released, MS made no such claims (yes they said it was better than 7, but they never claimed it was going to be their last OS), so no, I wasn't "confident" about it...

I don't "love" Windows 10... I don't like the privacy invasion, ads, etc... but I also know there's no point whining and b1tching over it - and I used Google to modify the OS to the specifications I desire from it... Since I'm aware (as you apparently are not) that I have no other option, I've decided to take my lemon and make lemonade :)

Oh and as for your line "Windows 10 adoption has slowed to a crawl even with new PC sales."

I would like to remind you that Windows 10 Pro accounts for more than 50% of all new enterprise PC purchases...
http://news.softpedia.com/news/windows-10-pro-leading-windows-sales-in-top-markets-513110.shtml
http://www.computerweekly.com/microscope/news/450413343/Windows-10-sales-momentum-continues
And this will obviously only increase when MS ends support for Win 7 and 8....
 
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captaincranky

TechSpot Addict
...[ ]...When Windows 8 was released, MS made no such claims (yes they said it was better than 7, but they never claimed it was going to be their last OS), so no, I wasn't "confident" about it...
OK, Windows 8, was the piece of crap Steve Ballmer allowed himself to be talked into, and it cost him his job. Face it, the man was only still at M$, on the grace of being Bill Gates BFF. He amounted to very little on his own.

I don't "love" Windows 10... I don't like the privacy invasion, ads, etc... but I also know there's no point whining and b1tching over it - and I used Google to modify the OS to the specifications I desire from it... Since I'm aware (as you apparently are not) that I have no other option, I've decided to take my lemon and make lemonade :)
Enjoy your lemonade but, if all the fools, "me too's", and "I've got to have the latest of everything hipsters", hadn't allowed themselves to be bullied, bribed, cajoled, and suckered into accepting this new piece of crap, we wouldn't be having this discussion. Windows 10 would have gone the way of Vista and Windows 8 (.0).

Oh and as for your line "Windows 10 adoption has slowed to a crawl even with new PC sales."

I would like to remind you that Windows 10 Pro accounts for more than 50% of all new enterprise PC purchases...
http://news.softpedia.com/news/windows-10-pro-leading-windows-sales-in-top-markets-513110.shtml
http://www.computerweekly.com/microscope/news/450413343/Windows-10-sales-momentum-continues
And this will obviously only increase when MS ends support for Win 7 and 8....
And I would like you remind you that there are still businesses running XP. Which I believe for which, extended support can still be purchased. (Not sure about that though, feel free to check. I haven't started posting on stone with a chisel, as have so many of my peers).

I am inclined to agree with you though, now that the ads, tracking, and M$ store "genie" has been allowed out of the bottle, it will be a cold day in hell before consumers will be able to put it back in.
 
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Raiderman

TS Booster
Well, Microsoft has declared that Windows 10 will be their last OS, so that's why I'm pretty confident that it will be the "OS of the future"... since there are no other options other than linux, which is a tiny % at best...and even assuming MS decides to "scrap it", that only means it will be replaced with Windows 11 (or whatever MS decides to name it) which will still leave Windows 7 and 8 users SOL when buying new PCs...

When Windows 8 was released, MS made no such claims (yes they said it was better than 7, but they never claimed it was going to be their last OS), so no, I wasn't "confident" about it...

I don't "love" Windows 10... I don't like the privacy invasion, ads, etc... but I also know there's no point whining and b1tching over it - and I used Google to modify the OS to the specifications I desire from it... Since I'm aware (as you apparently are not) that I have no other option, I've decided to take my lemon and make lemonade :)

Oh and as for your line "Windows 10 adoption has slowed to a crawl even with new PC sales."

I would like to remind you that Windows 10 Pro accounts for more than 50% of all new enterprise PC purchases...
http://news.softpedia.com/news/windows-10-pro-leading-windows-sales-in-top-markets-513110.shtml
http://www.computerweekly.com/microscope/news/450413343/Windows-10-sales-momentum-continues
And this will obviously only increase when MS ends support for Win 7 and 8....

The links you share show that Windows 10 in now running on 400 million devices, and that number has pretty much been the same for almost 3 months now. Of course new PC sales are going to have that garbage installed, as did Windows 8, but that did not help it topple Windows 7. Adoption rate is not a reflection of new PC sales, as it is more of a rate at which people are switching from one OS to the other. The adoption rate has slowed to a crawl as is evidence with Netmarket share, and other stat oriented websites have shown.

In other news, AMD Ryzen is destroying Kaby lake in all leaked benchmarks. :cool::cool:
 

Squid Surprise

TS Evangelist
The links you share show that Windows 10 in now running on 400 million devices, and that number has pretty much been the same for almost 3 months now. Of course new PC sales are going to have that garbage installed, as did Windows 8, but that did not help it topple Windows 7. Adoption rate is not a reflection of new PC sales, as it is more of a rate at which people are switching from one OS to the other. The adoption rate has slowed to a crawl as is evidence with Netmarket share, and other stat oriented websites have shown.

In other news, AMD Ryzen is destroying Kaby lake in all leaked benchmarks. :cool::cool:
Lol, did you actually read the links I posted, or just saw the words 400 million and stop?

And I like how you've said "of course new PC sales are going to have that garbage installed"... Garbage aside, it's pretty much ONLY new PCs that are going to have a Ryzen CPU inside them... Hence the reason that both Intel and AMD don't bother supporting old OSes!

Do you get it yet?

The rest of the PC market is NOT relevant for this conversation because those PCs won't have Ryzen (or Kaby Lake) inside them!

And yes, the benchmarks released so far have been quite promising... But until we see real ones after March 2 with a bunch of different games and apps, I wouldn't be rushing out to order one... But even if they are competitive (AMD hasn't been able to for years), this will hopefully make Intel reduce their prices and maybe make some better CPUs :)
 
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captaincranky

TechSpot Addict
...[ ]....And I like how you've said "of course new PC sales are going to have that garbage installed"... Garbage aside, it's pretty much ONLY new PCs that are going to have a Ryzen CPU inside them... Hence the reason that both Intel and AMD don't bother supporting old OSes!
None of your above paragraph matters. M$ has been talking down to its customers ever since this sh!t Windows 10 has been released. "You get a free upgrade to Windows 10, but you can always downgrade back to Windows 7". I mean really, that's pretty darn condescending, about on a par with one of your posts. Do you get that?

The only thing I've gotten out of your posting to this topic, is that you're stuck with Windows 10, and that means we should all be. "Misery loves company" much, or what?

The rest of the PC market is NOT relevant for this conversation because those PCs won't have Ryzen (or Kaby Lake) inside them!
Again, you're indelibly wrong. This story is part of a much larger arc. Intel socket LGA775 seeming went on for ages. Now, every "tick and a half", brings with it a new socket, compatibility issues, and the fact if you want to 'upgrade' a CPU, you're forced into another board. Now, with Intel and AMD colluding with M$ to obsolete all former Windows editions, what you have under construction is a mega-monopoly", which should concern anyone with even the tiniest kernel of common sense. <(pun Intended).
 
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Raiderman

TS Booster
Lol, did you actually read the links I posted, or just saw the words 400 million and stop?

And I like how you've said "of course new PC sales are going to have that garbage installed"... Garbage aside, it's pretty much ONLY new PCs that are going to have a Ryzen CPU inside them... Hence the reason that both Intel and AMD don't bother supporting old OSes!

Do you get it yet?

The rest of the PC market is NOT relevant for this conversation because those PCs won't have Ryzen (or Kaby Lake) inside them!

And yes, the benchmarks released so far have been quite promising... But until we see real ones after March 2 with a bunch of different games and apps, I wouldn't be rushing out to order one... But even if they are competitive (AMD hasn't been able to for years), this will hopefully make Intel reduce their prices and maybe make some better CPUs :)
Very incorrect on almost every single point you try to make. That is not why AMD and Intel do not bother supporting old Operating systems. It is because MS is forcing them to do so, use your google knowledge, and you will see the facts.

NetMarketShare says Windows 10 was running on 22.53 percent of the world’s PCs back in September 2016 when Microsoft unveiled the 400 million devices figure, while updated statistics for January 2017 put it at 25.30 percent. This means it improved only 2.77 percent since then, which does nothing more than to confirm that Windows 10 is indeed improving at a much slower pace these days.
I would say that constitutes a "crawl"

The rest of the PC market IS relevant to this article, which makes it relevant to this conversation. The article does not state that AMD will only support windows 10 on NEW PC SALES.

Do you get it yet?
 

Squid Surprise

TS Evangelist
Very incorrect on almost every single point you try to make. That is not why AMD and Intel do not bother supporting old Operating systems. It is because MS is forcing them to do so, use your google knowledge, and you will see the facts.

NetMarketShare says Windows 10 was running on 22.53 percent of the world’s PCs back in September 2016 when Microsoft unveiled the 400 million devices figure, while updated statistics for January 2017 put it at 25.30 percent. This means it improved only 2.77 percent since then, which does nothing more than to confirm that Windows 10 is indeed improving at a much slower pace these days.
I would say that constitutes a "crawl"

The rest of the PC market IS relevant to this article, which makes it relevant to this conversation. The article does not state that AMD will only support windows 10 on NEW PC SALES.

Do you get it yet?
I'd love to see some evidence that MS is FORCING AMD and Intel to drop support for Windows 7... but even if that's true, it only furthers MY point, not yours... How is AMD shortsighted in not supporting Windows 7 if it's being forced to do this!!?!?!?

And yes, AMD doesn't support Windows 7 on existing computers - but the % of these computers that will have Ryzen (or ANY new CPU) are virtually 0 - so they ARE irrelevant in AMD's decision to only support Windows 10. VERY few people bother to upgrade the CPU on their computer... and when they do, they usually upgrade the OS as well...

And an improvement of almost 3% in 3 months does NOT constitute a crawl.... that's about 11% a year... but thanks for furthering my argument for me :)
 

captaincranky

TechSpot Addict
I'd love to see some evidence that MS is FORCING AMD and Intel to drop support for Windows 7... but even if that's true, it only furthers MY point, not yours... How is AMD shortsighted in not supporting Windows 7 if it's being forced to do this!!?!?!?
So many punctuation marks you've used, wow. I thought for a moment I'd stumbled onto the comment section for some lousy YouTube video...:eek:

Moving along, "forcing", is probably not the best choice of word for this given situation. OTOH, terms like "collusion", "underhanded back room dealings", "forcing customers to buy a copy of Windows 10, if they want a new computer". < (Now see, that's where the "forcing" comes in. I'm sure M$, Intel, and AMD are getting along just fine).

I'And yes, AMD doesn't support Windows 7 on existing computers - but the % of these computers that will have Ryzen (or ANY new CPU) are virtually 0 - so they ARE irrelevant in AMD's decision to only support Windows 10. VERY few people bother to upgrade the CPU on their computer... and when they do, they usually upgrade the OS as well...
Are AMD CPUs actually on people's computers now? I mean other than a few fanbois, or people who can pass their electric bills off to their parents. :p

I'And an improvement of almost 3% in 3 months does NOT constitute a crawl.... that's about 11% a year... but thanks for furthering my argument for me :)
You're funny! Is this the new math? You know the "fortune teller' formula", where you multiply this quarter's numbers by four and pass it off as fact.

Incidentally, here's a look inside the business culture which spawned the turd they now have running M$, Satya Nadella.

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-ringing-bells-founder-arrests-idUSKBN16312I Here's a few "keywords" "4 dollar smart phone", "couldn't deliver" "CEO threatens to kill dealer and his family for complaining about undelivered, defective, and unavailable product". And before I forget, "rupees".

BTW, I've had some of the members criticize me for using, "M$". They thought that was offensive, and I was rude to suggest Microsoft was, "only in it for the money". OK, I'm a reasonable person, will somebody explain to me WTF else they're in it for?

Incidentally, "M$" works perfectly as a search term. And really, we couldn't call them, "MS", because that's the accepted acronym for "multiple sclerosis", and just plain "M", is (IIRC), James Bonds boss.
 
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Raiderman

TS Booster
For Squid Surprise:

Windows 7 Starts Growing Once Again As Windows 10 Loses Market Share
Statistics show that Windows 7 is back to growth
http://news.softpedia.com/news/wind...as-windows-10-loses-market-share-513431.shtml

"New market share data provided by NetMarketShare shows that Windows 7 returned to growth in February, while Windows 10, which is Microsoft’s most recent desktop operating system, started losing ground."

"Specifically, Windows 7 is the number one operating system on the desktop with a share of 48.41 percent, while Windows 10 is currently the runner-up with 25.19 percent. Windows XP is third with 8.45 percent, followed by Windows 8.1 with 6.87 percent.

As far as Windows 7 and Windows 10 are concerned, it looks like the older version is improving its market share once again, while the newer sibling is actually going down, not in a significant way, but still declining in a time when everyone expected it to grow.

Windows 7 improved from 47.20 percent to 48.41 percent, so it gained more than 1 percent market share in just a single month.

At the opposite pole there’s Windows 10, which dropped from 25.30 percent to 25.19 percent. As you can see, this isn’t a substantial drop, but it’s still a drop, despite Microsoft’s rather aggressive push for Windows 10 and the free upgrade offer that was supposed to bring everyone on the new OS."
 
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Squid Surprise

TS Evangelist
For Squid Surprise:

Windows 7 Starts Growing Once Again As Windows 10 Loses Market Share
Statistics show that Windows 7 is back to growth
http://news.softpedia.com/news/wind...as-windows-10-loses-market-share-513431.shtml

"New market share data provided by NetMarketShare shows that Windows 7 returned to growth in February, while Windows 10, which is Microsoft’s most recent desktop operating system, started losing ground."

"Specifically, Windows 7 is the number one operating system on the desktop with a share of 48.41 percent, while Windows 10 is currently the runner-up with 25.19 percent. Windows XP is third with 8.45 percent, followed by Windows 8.1 with 6.87 percent.

As far as Windows 7 and Windows 10 are concerned, it looks like the older version is improving its market share once again, while the newer sibling is actually going down, not in a significant way, but still declining in a time when everyone expected it to grow.

Windows 7 improved from 47.20 percent to 48.41 percent, so it gained more than 1 percent market share in just a single month.

At the opposite pole there’s Windows 10, which dropped from 25.30 percent to 25.19 percent. As you can see, this isn’t a substantial drop, but it’s still a drop, despite Microsoft’s rather aggressive push for Windows 10 and the free upgrade offer that was supposed to bring everyone on the new OS."
Yet you don't have a breakdown as to which are NEW computers.... Which, again, are the only relevant PCs in this conversation as they are the only ones that might include a Ryzen CPU...

I understand that Windows 10 isn't growing as fast as MS expected and wanted... But since MS has already announced that Win 7 (and 8) support WILL end, it is INEVITABLE that Windows 10 will eventually become the overwhelming majority...

I know that you seem to think this is a bad thing - I'm not arguing that... It's simply a fact... Deal....

On a brighter note, now that Ryzen benchmarks have been released, there is a very real chance that many enterprises will be choosing AMD for their future Windows 10 business PCs... Let's hope this leads to some price reductions and innovation on Intel's side...
 

Raiderman

TS Booster
This also shows an argument against your continued insistence that Windows 10 is the future OS. I argue that it is not, and will not be, because it will eventually fail. People are a little more tech savvy than MS gives them credit for. Windows 8 failed as will Windows 10.
Then we can all move to Linux, and MS can pound sand for their complete ineptitude.
 

Squid Surprise

TS Evangelist
This also shows an argument against your continued insistence that Windows 10 is the future OS. I argue that it is not, and will not be, because it will eventually fail. People are a little more tech savvy than MS gives them credit for. Windows 8 failed as will Windows 10.
Then we can all move to Linux, and MS can pound sand for their complete ineptitude.
Lol.... So you are arguing that Windows 10 will fail.... Even if that were to happen - do you really think that we will be going back to Windows 7?!?! Remember, your original argument was that AMD was shortsighted in discontinuing support for Windows 7.... In the EXTREMELY unlikely event that Windows 10 fails, it will simply be replaced with Windows 11.... There will still be no support for Windows 7....

Now stop trolling and just admit you're wrong :)
 

Raiderman

TS Booster
Not trolling, was simply pointing out that "your" OS of the future is not doing as well as you as you have continued to suggest. Pointing out statistics proving point after point, does not seem to phase you either. I still stand by the argument of AMD being short sighted for not supporting Windows 7, as it continues to show. 50% market share for a company that is in financial crisis, is something they should not have ignored. It also shows Windows XP as the third most used operating system, which shows that many users/companies are unwilling to migrate to the crap MS has been pushing out. No MS will not re-release Windows 7, but it will hit them where it hurts the most.
 

Squid Surprise

TS Evangelist
Not trolling, was simply pointing out that "your" OS of the future is not doing as well as you as you have continued to suggest. Pointing out statistics proving point after point, does not seem to phase you either. I still stand by the argument of AMD being short sighted for not supporting Windows 7, as it continues to show. 50% market share for a company that is in financial crisis, is something they should not have ignored. It also shows Windows XP as the third most used operating system, which shows that many users/companies are unwilling to migrate to the crap MS has been pushing out. No MS will not re-release Windows 7, but it will hit them where it hurts the most.
Except it's not "my" OS of the future... It's MS's... And I have continually pointed out (yet you ignore this) that people don't upgrade CPUs on existing PCs.... Ryzen will only be going into NEW PCs... Which almost universally contain Windows 10... The fact that AMD is simply following Intel's lead on the decision to not support Windows 7 should make the choice abundantly obvious...

Provide me with some actual evidence to deny this and we have an actual debate - until then, you are simply trolling.
 

captaincranky

TechSpot Addict
OK this goes out to both of you @Squid Surprise & @Raiderman

Back in the day when M$ was being run by someone reasonable, we could expect extended support for Windows 7 to be almost guaranteed. Not so, with this imported pushy clown in power now.

More importantly, I would have to believe the huge bundled update for Windows 7 contained some of the enhanced telemetry of Win 10, but obviously not DX-12, or the M$ store.

AMD at this point in time, is desperate to be accepted and loved by the rest of the major PC players, (in fact, their very survival depends on it), so it's no wonder they're all about kissing M$'s azz at this point.

However, as I understand it, "Ryzen" doesn't have an IGP solution. Therefore, it would be up to Nvidia to provide graphics drivers for the platform, and motherboard makers to provide the rest of the drivers to install whichever OS into a Ryzen compatible board.

Note: I don't doubt M$ will try and buy them off too, sooner than later.

(Notice I didn't say AMD, because them writing Win 7 video drivers for their video cards in Ryzen boards, would be a "gloves in M$' face approach", to the agreement they've already publicly made with M$.

Believe it or not, Adobe software is actually the biggest issue for a great portion of users wishing to move to Linux. Other than Adobe "Reader", I don't think they have a Linux compatible program. With that, and "WINE" always being 3 or 4 releases behind Adobe's current line, along with their now online by subscription only availability to the bulk of their programs, I'd almost wager Adobe is as responsible as any other single entity for keeping people from moving to Linux.
 
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mateau

TS Rookie
I was thinking that as you point out, that "announcement" is indeed relatively superfluous with regard to the proc functioning on W7, however from a marketing strategy standpoint AMD could have said their Processors would continue to have Software support for both Windows 10 and Window 7 and then appealed to the portion of consumers and businesses resisting Windows 10 (a significant number I think we can all agree) without risking much of anything except the disapproval of Microsoft and the additional staffing costs for continued software support of the older OS.

I admit I am ignorant as to what that might realistically cost AMD but I imagine these factors were considered at some point.
Both Intel and AMD microarchitecture support x86-64. Win 7 is compiled on Intel x86 compliers and quite likely will run on any x86 silicon that supports the necessary extensions for the particular operating system.

Since Windows has not revised Windows 7 except for certain security upgrades, it is disingenuous to state that AMD does not support it.

AMD supports Win7 as much as Intel.

What media folks are NOT saying is that Win 7 does NOT support DX11.2 or DX11.3

So when Benchmarks are run for DX11.3 gaming on the latest Radeon and GeForce silicon, using Windows 10 and DX11.3 the results will NOT translate to the lower performing DX11.1 on Windows 7. This is another lie of omission by the on-line media.

Windows in fact has stopped supporting DX11 almost 3 years ago when it released DX11.3 for Win 8.

Win 7 ONLY supports DX11.1 and Vulkan.
Win 8: DX 11.1 and DX11.3 and Vulkan
Win10 was written for DX12 and of course all legacy Directx; DX9, DX10 and DX11.3. and of course Vulkan and Mantle.

There is also a persistent rumour that Mantle too will run on Win 7 and Win 8, hence MS's rather rushed Windows 10 release.

Funny how the media does not tell folks that.
 
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Raiderman

TS Booster
Except it's not "my" OS of the future... It's MS's... And I have continually pointed out (yet you ignore this) that people don't upgrade CPUs on existing PCs.... Ryzen will only be going into NEW PCs... Which almost universally contain Windows 10... The fact that AMD is simply following Intel's lead on the decision to not support Windows 7 should make the choice abundantly obvious...

Provide me with some actual evidence to deny this and we have an actual debate - until then, you are simply trolling.
Your argument is that existing PC users do not upgrade their cpu? Are you serious? You are on a tech site, where nearly everyone upgrades their cpu, motherboard, graphics card to the next generation. Do you not know this first hand? Visit the forums, and see what techspot people are doing. Visit any number of tech sites, and see for yourself what they are doing. The argument that PC's never see a cpu upgrade is an invalid one. Everyone is not buying pre-built dell's, hp's etc, they build their own systems, in which case they install their own CPU, motherboard, ram, and yes the operating system. The fact is Ryzen will be going into thousands, and thousands of enthusiasts systems, and NOT just new Dells, and HP's.
 

Squid Surprise

TS Evangelist
Your argument is that existing PC users do not upgrade their cpu? Are you serious? You are on a tech site, where nearly everyone upgrades their cpu, motherboard, graphics card to the next generation. Do you not know this first hand? Visit the forums, and see what techspot people are doing. Visit any number of tech sites, and see for yourself what they are doing. The argument that PC's never see a cpu upgrade is an invalid one. Everyone is not buying pre-built dell's, hp's etc, they build their own systems, in which case they install their own CPU, motherboard, ram, and yes the operating system. The fact is Ryzen will be going into thousands, and thousands of enthusiasts systems, and NOT just new Dells, and HP's.
No... My argument is a very valid one... Tech sites make up a minuscule % of the overall computer world.... And even on a tech site, the % of people who upgrade their CPU is quite small - and when they do, it generally includes an OS upgrade as well... Not to mention that upgrading to Ryzen from any other CPU will require an entirely new motherboard as well....

The amount of people who are upgrading their CPU (and therefore motherboard as well) yet remaining on Win 7/8 is such a tiny % that both AMD and Intel are discounting them - hence both not supporting (officially) anything but Windows 10 with their new CPUs...

Yes, Ryzen will be going into thousands of enthusiast systems - and almost all of those will either be entirely new systems :)

Thank you, come again...
 
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