China turns to Japan for semiconductor equipment, avoiding US restrictions

midian182

Posts: 6,592   +58
Staff member
In brief: US sanctions on Chinese semiconductor manufacturers have hit companies from both countries in the pocket, but Japanese firms have benefitted from the situation. A new report says used equipment dealers in Japan have seen their prices rise 20 percent since last year as Chinese firms snap up machines not subject to US restrictions.

Nikkei Asia writes that Chinese semiconductor makers are turning to Japan for used equipment in the wake of US sanctions, sending up prices in the country's second-hand market. With the worldwide chip shortage still causing supply problems across multiple industries, even older, out-of-date machines are selling fast; this has seen the price of core equipment such as lithography systems increase threefold.

"Nearly 90% of used machines appear to be headed to China," said a source at Mitsubishi UFJ Lease & Finance. A used equipment dealer added, "Machines that were basically worthless several years ago are now selling for 100 million yen [$940,000]."

Wafer capacity leaders

Company Monthly wafer manufacturing capacity Total global capacity share
Samsung 3.1 million 14.7%
TSMC 2.7 million 13.1%
Micron Technology 1.9 million+ 9.3%
SK Hynix ~1.85 million 9%
Kioxia 1.6 million 7.7%
Intel 884,000 ~4.1%

In September, the US government placed sanctions on China's largest chipmaker, Semiconductor Manufacturing International Corporation (SMIC). It was also added to the same Entity list as Huawei, meaning US companies must secure a license before exporting certain products to SMIC.

While much of the used equipment is moving straight from Japan to the buyers' factory floors, some older-generation machines are being hoarded—not that the sellers care. The end goal is for the Chinese semiconductor industry to lower reliance on US imports, thereby ensuring sanctions have less impact.

Permalink to story.

 

psycros

Posts: 3,366   +3,816
As long as China can't sell its stolen designs to much of the western world it won't matter how many foundries they build. The hard part is making sure greedy financiers and manufacturers don't find ways around the import restrictions.
 

p51d007

Posts: 2,674   +2,011
As long as China can't sell its stolen designs to much of the western world it won't matter how many foundries they build. The hard part is making sure greedy financiers and manufacturers don't find ways around the import restrictions.

They've been saying that since the days of "bootlegging" whiskey, which got the term from the fact they were hiding booze in their long boots (1700's). If there is money to be made, they will eventually find a way to do it.
 

m3tavision

Posts: 599   +361
I absolutely appreciate the fact China is able to completely ignore US sanctions.
Hopefully Venezuela, Cuba, Haiti, Iran (and a number of others) will get there someday.

The time of the big bully being able to keep other developing nations down through propaganda and economic warfare is over.

China is a Developing Nation...?

You sound like a Chinese Wumao hurling accusation at USA, for Protecting other Nations property and Other's rights, along with Human Rights.

Hilarious that you support Communism and Terrorists.
 

terzaerian

Posts: 675   +958
China is a Developing Nation...?

You sound like a Chinese Wumao hurling accusation at USA, for Protecting other Nations property and Other's rights, along with Human Rights.

Hilarious that you support Communism and Terrorists.
His point of view is a inchoate mish-mash. In one breath he gleefully cackles about how crypto is doomed because the US "has nukes" and will use them to stop it, but then writes these paeans to the moral purity of murderous foreign dictators in their struggle against the US. You'll be better off muting him than trying to make sense of it.

"Once worthless second-hand machines are selling for almost $1 million"

It's not just graphics cards and it's not just crypto miners - the current chip shortage is a titanic global issue. This is proof of it.
 

Austinturner

Posts: 117   +116
As long as China can't sell its stolen designs to much of the western world it won't matter how many foundries they build. The hard part is making sure greedy financiers and manufacturers don't find ways around the import restrictions.
I don’t agree, China is looking for full self sufficiency for their own strategic benefit, they need a massive amount of production for everything from military and industrial to commercial and consumer products and they refuse to be beholden to anyone else. The progression will be: 1. Buy 2. Steal designs and build 3. Design, build and export new designs

The US has reason to be extremely concerned at the position its companies have put it in with their outsourcing to Chinese manufacturing (as it enters a strategic showdown with China).

I think Europe has a huge opportunity...if they can work together (both western and eastern european countries). They can potentially be a stable, independent place to build products that is not in the middle of potential conflict zones.
 
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yRaz

Posts: 3,584   +3,477
His point of view is a inchoate mish-mash. In one breath he gleefully cackles about how crypto is doomed because the US "has nukes" and will use them to stop it, but then writes these paeans to the moral purity of murderous foreign dictators in their struggle against the US. You'll be better off muting him than trying to make sense of it.
I'm starting to believe he is one of the most elaborate and successful trolls ever created. There is no way he can actually be a real person
 

kiwigraeme

Posts: 275   +231
Ha ha - poor little USA - oh we are going to make them pay this year , and next year , and the year after - oh I do hope the year after that.
China is playing the end game - these measures may only hasten what is already their strategy - though it does not matter .
I don't want tosee here myopic BS that china can only copy or make improvements - I have heard those racists comments for the last 50 years .
The Americans have to support two main strategies going forward - one the world is global place - and we need a win/win for everyone , including very poor countries .
Second you need to ensure strategic supply , plus education, support US R&D and production on US soil .
Makes me laugh when the xenohaters laud limiting overseas talent coming to the US.
Do you think the financial markets of London,Frankfurt, NY just run on local city talent ?

Basically Trumps Ban was mostly feel good - and The US better get it's A game going
 

yRaz

Posts: 3,584   +3,477
Ha ha - poor little USA - oh we are going to make them pay this year , and next year , and the year after - oh I do hope the year after that.
China is playing the end game - these measures may only hasten what is already their strategy - though it does not matter .
I don't want tosee here myopic BS that china can only copy or make improvements - I have heard those racists comments for the last 50 years .
The Americans have to support two main strategies going forward - one the world is global place - and we need a win/win for everyone , including very poor countries .
Second you need to ensure strategic supply , plus education, support US R&D and production on US soil .
Makes me laugh when the xenohaters laud limiting overseas talent coming to the US.
Do you think the financial markets of London,Frankfurt, NY just run on local city talent ?

Basically Trumps Ban was mostly feel good - and The US better get it's A game going
whoa! Calm down there, 4chan, I didn't know /pol/ had a techspot account
 

ShObiT

Posts: 197   +210
China is a Developing Nation...?

You sound like a Chinese Wumao hurling accusation at USA, for Protecting other Nations property and Other's rights, along with Human Rights.

Hilarious that you support Communism and Terrorists.

Are you referring to the Middle East US Backed terrorist and Communist Sex mutilators child marriage, abuse and state approved pedophilia?.

Or are you referring to NORMAL communism where they sensor speech and have rigged joke elections, but they do propaganda and pretend to protect the childrens? like China and Russia, etc.

Because to your point US is as BAD as the Rest, But I guess everything for the Oil right?
 

kiwigraeme

Posts: 275   +231
whoa! Calm down there, 4chan, I didn't know /pol/ had a techspot account
Nice ad hominem play there and projection - I assume it's you who is not calm and uses 4chan - never been there - does not interest me.

Ha ha I have no skin in the game - except I live on the same planet - and the current system is destructive to folks happiness and the planets well being.

Strange how some Americans are often so defensive - It's real sad that their self worth is how much they have owe or doing better than the next person - Why are Europeans , Kiwis , aussies so much more happy - because we mostly know that is a lie used by your Corporate bosses to play you and we don't care .

You see it reflected on here bragging what they have - someone saying if you job is so so you have made horrible life choices . thankfully lots of Americans no longer buy in to that BS - I do not care what clothes you wear , your phone, your projected image.

If you have something interesting to say please do - I not accepting your silly american gamemanship or trolling
 

Lounds

Posts: 741   +642
China is a Developing Nation...?

You sound like a Chinese Wumao hurling accusation at USA, for Protecting other Nations property and Other's rights, along with Human Rights.

Hilarious that you support Communism and Terrorists.
Funny how none of the countries mentioned haven't caused any terrorism in the last 40 years. If you speak to anyone from Iran they will send you pictures and photos they're nothing like what western media depicts their countries to be like, you're being a fed a load of lies so fat cats can make money. Ask yourself this why does the USA and UK still sell arms and support Saudi which is the biggest exporter of terrorism in the world and allow the deaths of millions of innocent people in Yemen?
 

Austinturner

Posts: 117   +116
I think it's Russia but point taken.
Russia is a somewhat corrupt, natural resource driven economy that occasionally invades its close, neighbours in border skirmishes but is not investing in technology or diversifying their economy much.

China is a much larger, more technologically advanced manufacturing powerhouse with the resources to challenge US dominance.

Post-putin, if russia can clean house, europe could become even more stable and influential. (Big if).

China post Xi will still be run by the CCP and is unlikely to change policy very much towards the US.

If I was the US, I’d be more concerned about china’s economic influence undermining my global dominance, goodbye US dollar advantages, goodbye military technology advantage, hello cold war 2.0
 
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Alfatawi Mendel

Posts: 96   +158
I absolutely appreciate the fact China is able to completely ignore US sanctions.
Hopefully Venezuela, Cuba, Haiti, Iran (and a number of others) will get there someday.

The time of the big bully being able to keep other developing nations down through propaganda and economic warfare is over.
Indeed.
China has the belt and road initiative to expand its influence. The west doesn't like it.
The US version of belt and road involves drone strikes, carrier groups, invasions, regime change and a corrupt legal system.
 

QuantumPhysics

Posts: 4,639   +4,996
Indeed.
China has the belt and road initiative to expand its influence. The west doesn't like it.
The US version of belt and road involves drone strikes, carrier groups, invasions, regime change and a corrupt legal system.


As you can see from my statement's detractors, the propaganda and covert racism is real.

Imagine having a president who cyberbullies people from his own party and the opposition party on Twitter, preoccupying himself with banning Chinese cellphones and "Tik Tok".

I've never been as embarrassed to be an American as I was watching the declaration of the doomed-to-fail "trade war" turn into the complete decimation of America's way of life during that disastrous presidency.

I just hope that the inevitable collapse of the racism leads to emerging countries having the democratic freedom to grow after the west has lost all control of them.