Elon Musk defies local orders by reopening Tesla factory, says he's ready to be arrested

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wiyosaya

Posts: 5,265   +3,378
Good for musk, his workers need to eat, and no a company shouldn't pay employees that arnt working, pay is based on what you offer the company, sitting at home playing your Xbox brings nothing to the company paying you. I say good for him, I'd also instruct my security to close the gates and not allow any police to come past the gate without a warrant applicable for the property.

California is killing it's residents and making them homeless, so good on musk saying enough is enough.
Musky could pay his workers if he wanted to - he likes to think he has so much pocket change that it makes him a demigod. Why then, doe he not pay his workers? Here's a story about companies paying their workers during the lockdown, yet Musky can't? I'm calling BS on him not paying them.
https://www.newsweek.com/coronavirus-stores-retail-closure-employee-pay-1493729
 
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captaincranky

Posts: 16,066   +4,866
Let Musk open up. Then see if his employees show. Democracy at work.
Bur then if they don't show, he has the excuse he needs, (or is quite possibly looking for), to stop paying them.

Besides, he's already threatened, (as I understand it), to "take his factory to another state".

What the hell, he's already taken a huge chunk of it to China, why shouldn't California bow down to him?
 
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treetops

Posts: 2,974   +744
I'd like to think he's sucking up to Trump or because repubs hate him, trying some Cosby dad reverse psychology. But I doubt it, pretty odd seeing an electrical car maker siding with a Republican president.
 
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captaincranky

Posts: 16,066   +4,866
I'd like to think he's sucking up to Trump or because repubs hate him, trying some Cosby dad reverse psychology. But I doubt it, pretty odd seeing an electrical car maker siding with a Republican president.
You wouldn't think he'd have the ballz, after opening his "giga-factory" in China. But then again, this is Musk we're talking about.
 
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candle_86

Posts: 318   +250
Not according to this - https://www.digitaltrends.com/news/california-becerra-attorney-general-tesla-factory-enforcement/
Musky will lose. SCOTUS has already set precedent and SCOTUS could care less who Musky is.
Might want read that again then, and no company should be paying furloughed employees, because those employees are not bringing value to the company while not working. The government insisted they go hungry and loose everything so let the government compensate everyone, it's not an employers job to cover for tyranny. The companies first duty is to itself, then to it's stock holders, you know the people invested in the company. Then the company has a duty to the employees. Musk is doing his duty as CEO plain and simple. I do invite him to relocate to Texas, we here are open for bussiness because we realize people need to work.
 

wiyosaya

Posts: 5,265   +3,378
Might want read that again then, and no company should be paying furloughed employees, because those employees are not bringing value to the company while not working. The government insisted they go hungry and loose everything so let the government compensate everyone, it's not an employers job to cover for tyranny. The companies first duty is to itself, then to it's stock holders, you know the people invested in the company. Then the company has a duty to the employees. Musk is doing his duty as CEO plain and simple. I do invite him to relocate to Texas, we here are open for bussiness because we realize people need to work.
Musky's employees make him and his company. He, like other bullshitaires, have the backs of those employees to thank. Without those employees, Musky would be no one.

The companies paying their employees are doing so because it is the right thing to do, IMO. That is what companies who truly value their employees do. Musky could give a crap about anything other than himself.
I'd like to think he's sucking up to Trump or because repubs hate him, trying some Cosby dad reverse psychology. But I doubt it, pretty odd seeing an electrical car maker siding with a Republican president.
Personally, I think there is a multitude of similarities between the way that Trump and Musky behave.
 
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candle_86

Posts: 318   +250
Irrelevant, they are a company they have to produce to make money, the workers need to work to get paid. It's all irrelevant how the employees feel, they are free to quit if they are scared. I do hope Tesla moves their plant here to Texas, but leave most of their workers behind since they arnt interested in actually working and would rather go home and collect unemployment.

No I'll stand with musk on this, government should have no authority to shut down companies that are breaking no laws relevant to the work they do, this whole qurantine is utter nonsense, and if other big couldn't fail companies are filing for bankruptcy you can bet it's hurting everyone, Tesla can't afford to let equipment sit idle it costs them money, look at the airlines or cruise industry if you want to understand why it still costs money to maintain equipment that your unable to use.

Tesla is facing increased competition in the ev market, and their competitors arnt closed, Ford, Chevy, Crysler, Toyota, Honda, ECT are all building cars, and history has shown if you fall behind you seldom regain the list ground.
 

Squid Surprise

Posts: 3,155   +2,062
No I'll stand with musk on this, government should have no authority to shut down companies that are breaking no laws relevant to the work they do,
How about the LAW that they stay closed - which they broke... won’t bother addressing the rest of the nonsense you posted, as it’s “irrelevant “ :)
 
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wiyosaya

Posts: 5,265   +3,378
No I'll stand with musk on this, government should have no authority to shut down companies that are breaking no laws relevant to the work they do, this whole qurantine is utter nonsense, and if other big couldn't fail companies are filing for bankruptcy you can bet it's hurting everyone, Tesla can't afford to let equipment sit idle it costs them money, look at the airlines or cruise industry if you want to understand why it still costs money to maintain equipment that your unable to use.
Well maybe Musky will hire you to plead his case before SCOTUS. :laughing:

And maybe he can hang the heads of a few of his employees on his mantel as trophies. It sure sound like, from the accounts of a few possible whistle blowers, that there was an above average potential for the virus to have spread among Tesla employees.

IMO, life comes before profit.

But given Musky hails from South Africa, I guess better is not to be expected of him.
 

candle_86

Posts: 318   +250
How about the LAW that they stay closed - which they broke... won’t bother addressing the rest of the nonsense you posted, as it’s “irrelevant “ :)
It's in unconstitutional law, plain and simple. The government can not suspend your rights because they want to. I imagine if it goes to SCOTUS they will side with Musk, but a federal judge likely would before it got there. No one is obligated to follow any law that violates the Constitution or the Bill of Rights. That's why the Justice department has already threatened several states with lawsuits if they don't back down, because their attempts to establish a dictatorship violate the law.

Also without profit there is no life, unless you think people are better served by being homeless and hungry instead of working and meeting their needs.
 

Squid Surprise

Posts: 3,155   +2,062
It's in unconstitutional law, plain and simple. The government can not suspend your rights because they want to. I imagine if it goes to SCOTUS they will side with Musk, but a federal judge likely would before it got there. No one is obligated to follow any law that violates the Constitution or the Bill of Rights. That's why the Justice department has already threatened several states with lawsuits if they don't back down, because their attempts to establish a dictatorship violate the law.

Also without profit there is no life, unless you think people are better served by being homeless and hungry instead of working and meeting their needs.
You might want to research your country’s legal record - laws, if passed, MUST be obeyed... period...
If you think a law is unconstitutional, you have the right to fight it IN COURT, but until the law is struck down, it is in force.

And emergency measures have set precedents for laws like this one - so it isn’t clearcut if it will be struck down...

Regardless, what Musk is doing is illegal, and I hope he pays the price.
 

candle_86

Posts: 318   +250
You might want to research your country’s legal record - laws, if passed, MUST be obeyed... period...
If you think a law is unconstitutional, you have the right to fight it IN COURT, but until the law is struck down, it is in force.

And emergency measures have set precedents for laws like this one - so it isn’t clearcut if it will be struck down...

Regardless, what Musk is doing is illegal, and I hope he pays the price.
No read our countries history more closely, it's full of resistance to illegal laws, the whole premise of America is we disobeyed laws we disagreed with and declared war on the crown when they tried to force us to obey. America isn't a nation of people that blindly follow whatever law they are told to, we fight it, sometimes with force. Look at Ruby Ridge or the BLM standoff, we fight for our rights, because we know the government will not protect them unless we force them to.

As I said his best move is to close the gates and tell the local authorities they may not come into the property
 

Squid Surprise

Posts: 3,155   +2,062
No read our countries history more closely, it's full of resistance to illegal laws, the whole premise of America is we disobeyed laws we disagreed with and declared war on the crown when they tried to force us to obey. America isn't a nation of people that blindly follow whatever law they are told to, we fight it, sometimes with force. Look at Ruby Ridge or the BLM standoff, we fight for our rights, because we know the government will not protect them unless we force them to.

As I said his best move is to close the gates and tell the local authorities they may not come into the property
Yes... you're welcome to resist... but you pay the legal penalties...
At Ruby Ridge, both Weaver and Harris went to prison for their resistance... later, after fighting IN THE COURTS, they were granted LEGAL settlements.

As for BLM - the fight continues to this day in THE COURTS. And as of now, it's still ILLEGAL for someone to be grazing their cattle on government land without a permit...

The thing with both of your examples, however, is that they only impacted the actual person (and family/friends) involved. Musk is endangering his workers - not himself - which is why he is so reprehensible.
 

candle_86

Posts: 318   +250
Yes... you're welcome to resist... but you pay the legal penalties...
At Ruby Ridge, both Weaver and Harris went to prison for their resistance... later, after fighting IN THE COURTS, they were granted LEGAL settlements.

As for BLM - the fight continues to this day in THE COURTS. And as of now, it's still ILLEGAL for someone to be grazing their cattle on government land without a permit...

The thing with both of your examples, however, is that they only impacted the actual person (and family/friends) involved. Musk is endangering his workers - not himself - which is why he is so reprehensible.
My point stands, and let those workers that don't want a paycheck stay at home that was always their right, the issue is people think they should be payed by their employer when they arnt working
 

Squid Surprise

Posts: 3,155   +2,062
My point stands, and let those workers that don't want a paycheck stay at home that was always their right, the issue is people think they should be payed by their employer when they arnt working
Society thinks it too.... that’s what unemployment insurance is for...
 

candle_86

Posts: 318   +250
Society thinks it too.... that’s what unemployment insurance is for...
Welfare isn't the anwser, it's never the anwser, my taxes don't exist so someone can sit at home doing nothing, same as they shouldn't be spent for someone to get a degree in women's studies, or cover housing for someone that keeps having babies and draining the system with their freeloading.

No unemployment exists to get you to your next job, but if your job exists and you still have it, but you refuse to work, then by all means loose unemployment, this current generation is entitled and arrogant. No musk is right, if they want to eat let them go to work and earn it.
 

captaincranky

Posts: 16,066   +4,866
Irrelevant, they are a company they have to produce to make money, the workers need to work to get paid. It's all irrelevant how the employees feel, they are free to quit if they are scared. I do hope Tesla moves their plant here to Texas, but leave most of their workers behind since they arnt interested in actually working and would rather go home and collect unemployment....[ ]...
You're right, and all the rest of us are wrong, I get it.

But I don't think Musk should be arrested for opening his factory either. Personally, I think they should scoop him up on a 72 hour psych hold. That would be more appropriate, and more beneficial to society.
 

Squid Surprise

Posts: 3,155   +2,062
Welfare isn't the anwser, it's never the anwser, my taxes don't exist so someone can sit at home doing nothing, same as they shouldn't be spent for someone to get a degree in women's studies, or cover housing for someone that keeps having babies and draining the system with their freeloading.

No unemployment exists to get you to your next job, but if your job exists and you still have it, but you refuse to work, then by all means loose unemployment, this current generation is entitled and arrogant. No musk is right, if they want to eat let them go to work and earn it.
There’s a difference between welfare and a GLOBAL EMERGENCY.... but hey, I’m sure you’re doing fine, so everyone else can just suck it...
 

candle_86

Posts: 318   +250
There’s a difference between welfare and a GLOBAL EMERGENCY.... but hey, I’m sure you’re doing fine, so everyone else can just suck it...
It's not a global emergency, this things is just as dangerous as a flu, anyone freaking out about it listens to much CNN
 

Squid Surprise

Posts: 3,155   +2,062
It's not a global emergency, this things is just as dangerous as a flu, anyone freaking out about it listens to much CNN
But we’ve had 100+ years to learn about and treat the flu... so it only kills 30-50k people per year... we’ve lost way more than that to Covid in just a few months...
And YES, it’s a global emergency- the entire world being on lockdown kind of gives it away...
 

Danny101

Posts: 1,318   +526
Let's say Musk opens up. People who are willing to work, can, and those who aren't willing, don't have to and can collect unemployment benefits for as long as the state deems it necessary. Keep in mind that unemployment insurance is paid into by the employers. If Musk opens up, then he still has to pay unemployment benefits and not get the benefit of tax relief. There, problem solved. A pandemic can be self-regulating. For those not vulnerable, get on with it. For those who are, take steps to protect yourself as you would do with any other infectious disease. In the end, destroying the economy is not worth a pound of cure and would do more collateral damage than any virus could wrought.
 
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Squid Surprise

Posts: 3,155   +2,062
Let's say Musk opens up. People who are willing to work, can, and those who aren't willing, don't have to and can collect unemployment benefits for as long as the state deems it necessary. Keep in mind that unemployment insurance is paid into by the employers. If Musk opens up, then he still has to pay unemployment benefits and not get the benefit of tax relief. There, problem solved. A pandemic can be self-regulating. For those not vulnerable, get on with it. For those who are, take steps to protect yourself as you would do with any other infectious disease. In the end, destroying the economy is not worth a pound of cure and would do more damage than any virus could wroght.
It's posts like this that sometimes makes me want to smack my head against a wall...

I don't think people really understand what a pandemic is... or what it means... SOME people can't just do what they please - and let the others stay home...

The whole point of self-isolation is that EVERYONE needs to do it!! Kind of like vaccinating!

There's no point in me staying home if you're going to go out, get infected, and spread it around!!

How about everyone just listens to the experts and waits until it's really OK to go back to work.
 
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