Elon Musk says Neuralink tech will allow users to stream music directly into their brains

midian182

Posts: 6,794   +61
Staff member
Forward-looking: Have you even listened to music and thought: "These headphones are good, but I wish the tunes could be streamed directly into my brain?" Probably not, but if Elon Musk's Neuralink tech works as planned, that futuristic and mildly terrifying scenario could become a reality.

It's been a while since we last heard about Neuralink, the company Elon Musk founded in 2016 to develop "ultra-high bandwidth brain-machine interfaces." The startup has developed flexible threads, thinner than a human hair, which can be injected into the brain to detect neuron activity. It even built a robot that uses a 24-micron needle to embed them automatically.

Neuralink also developed a custom sensor that can be implanted into the body to amplify and read the signals and send them to a receiver. The data can only be transmitted via a wired connection right now, but the aim is to make it work wirelessly.

Neuralink has been quiet since last year when it announced plans to implant mind-reading sensors in human brains sometime in 2020. Earlier this week, Musk tweeted that an official update on the company's progress will arrive on August 28.

Musk has been releasing details about his startup on Twitter in the runup to that date. Responding to a tweet from computer scientist Austin Howard, the Tesla CEO confirmed that Neuralink's tech would allow people to "listen to music directly from our chips."

In addition to putting Spotify/Apple Music into our heads, Musk claims his company's chips will be able to cure addiction and depression by retraining the part of the brain responsible for causing them. Users with limited mobility could also use it to construct text messages and emails just by thinking about the words.

While Neuralink makes some exciting promises when it comes to treating neurological conditions and brain/spinal injuries, Musk says a brain-to-machine interface's best use will be against the threat of AI, helping prevent people from becoming "house cats" to artificial intelligence.

Permalink to story.

 

kimo1

Posts: 227   +415
cure addiction and depression by retraining the part of the brain
By making you obey the system instead of allowing you to think that the system is the problem.
 

Uncle Al

Posts: 8,014   +6,783
No thanks .... I've seen enough information concerning the implanting of suggestions that I want nothing to do with it. For the doubters, look up the book "Subliminal Suggestions" and read carefully. You are being subjected to it every day, once outlawed it has now become common place ....
 

Mister_K

Posts: 2,064   +768
By making you obey the system instead of allowing you to think that the system is the problem.

Anything can be used against the individual. A knife can slice bread, but can also kill people. Should we cover in fear and limit ourselves because of potential misuse of technology? No. Be cautions, sure.
 

candle_86

Posts: 729   +730
Anything can be used against the individual. A knife can slice bread, but can also kill people. Should we cover in fear and limit ourselves because of potential misuse of technology? No. Be cautions, sure.

Except this is embedded in your brain and can be used by the government to force compliance, or to maybe one day record and log out thoughts, a kitchen knife isn't even close.
 

Mister_K

Posts: 2,064   +768
Except this is embedded in your brain and can be used by the government to force compliance, or to maybe one day record and log out thoughts, a kitchen knife isn't even close.

You are treading on conspiracy area right there. Instead of stopping progress, lobby for transparency and ensure that this will not happen. No matter how much opposition these technologies get, they will happen and masses will adopt them.

Eventually you will be handicapped by your human throughput, the people who adopted these technologies will surpass you. But, we live in a world where choice exists, so, many people will simply not "upgrade" and call it a day at an X point of transhumanism.

Again, transparency and open source is the key here.

-- I would be more worried about possible hacks that will cause damage to the individual over government mind control.

Scepticism is good though, but totally ridiculing this topic/technology is not an answer either because it will happen.
 

Mister_K

Posts: 2,064   +768
For those who CBA to read:

No thanks .... I've seen enough information concerning the implanting of suggestions that I want nothing to do with it. For the doubters, look up the book "Subliminal Suggestions" and read carefully. You are being subjected to it every day, once outlawed it has now become common place ....

When were subliminal suggestions outlawed? We were subjected to it ever since the first humans roamed the Earth. Now with Internet age and targeted advertising and consumption of multimedia it is impossible to get away. Luckily, we are still humans, free will exists, logical thinking and being open-minded exists so therefore we can make our own choices based on truly how we feel and you can simply "disconnect".

With this logic, you should literally live in a hut somewhere away from society and without a cellular device (you are being tracked, monitored, advertised to on a daily basis).

Now with neural implants the risk can of course be a lot higher for misuse. However, as long as these technologies can be reverse engineered and are open source, malicious code/technology can be uncovered. On top of that tracking and data gathering is already an issue and Google as well as Amazon are playing a huge role in this. Specially that they are compliant with security agencies. The potential for abuse is here with or without neural link.

Remember, while you and I are most likely privileged, many humans are not. Some have serious issues where technologies like these can help them greatly, to actually, experience life. This is the current primary use for Neural Link, enabling life.

Also the low throughput of our physicality will be eliminated with direct interface with technology. Again, something that will happen and will cause many new problems of ethics (loosing our "humanity") and illegal activity (hacking).

--

One thing we do have to worry is to teach our kids how life is without technology. Be human, be kind, enjoy the nature and preserve free will and life in general. Technology can eventually make us loose our "humanity" but as long as art exists we should be good. Basically, don't forget our roots and what makes us, "us".

EDIT:

Remember, these technologies can also help uncover many mysteries with consciousnesses and brain in general and maybe a completely unrelated new information in other areas.
 
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wiyosaya

Posts: 5,928   +4,185
Again, transparency and open source is the key here.
You are making a case in this post and the next for open source. Clandestine actors will never follow the rules. Take, for instance, the CIA, KGB, or some other clandestine organization. The scenario is that they go out, get the open source, modify it, and never put it back into open source - so no one ever knows what they did with it. Do you think that someone is going to prosecute them because they are not following the open source rules? IMO, such a prosecution will never happen.

For me, the only way something like this is possible is if economic systems change such that the principle of those who have the most toys wins becomes completely moot. Honestly, I do not see that happening anytime in the foreseeable future given current global conditions.

Scepticism is good though, but totally ridiculing this topic/technology is not an answer either because it will happen.
So? Face recognition happened and look what is happening to face recognition now. Everyone thought it was going to be such a great thing until they figured out it was not meeting its promise, via means of interfering with basic human rights - just like the potential for such abuses with this technology - and now, most everyone is moving away from it.

The problem is not the good the technology can do, or even, IMO, the bad the technology can do; the problem is in hands of those who use the technology. Like it or not, many current humans do not care who they hurt as long as it leads to their own gain.

I already have music piped into my mind directly - through my ears. I am not buying Musk's marketing BS.
 
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candle_86

Posts: 729   +730
You are treading on conspiracy area right there. Instead of stopping progress, lobby for transparency and ensure that this will not happen. No matter how much opposition these technologies get, they will happen and masses will adopt them.

Eventually you will be handicapped by your human throughput, the people who adopted these technologies will surpass you. But, we live in a world where choice exists, so, many people will simply not "upgrade" and call it a day at an X point of transhumanism.

Again, transparency and open source is the key here.

-- I would be more worried about possible hacks that will cause damage to the individual over government mind control.

Scepticism is good though, but totally ridiculing this topic/technology is not an answer either because it will happen.

nope never

" And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:
And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name."
Revelations 13:16/17

I think I will forgo this entirely
 

wiyosaya

Posts: 5,928   +4,185
You are treading on conspiracy area right there.
IMO, candle_86 is not treading on conspiracy theory there. There are already cases of laboratory proven decision influencing by stimulating the brain https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/324998
The technique uses ultrasound. I bet there is a way to do it with direct stimulation - just the kind of stimulation Musky proposes here. Give it time; a way will be found.

The article presents the discovery in a beneficial light, however, there is no guarantee it will always be used in a beneficial manner; clandestine actors, IMO, would likely do anything they can to get a technology like this for clandestine purposes
 

OortCloud

Posts: 596   +455
I though we were all living in a simulation anyway Elon, so why bother? We are all slaves to the MotherNode already aren't we?
 

Mister_K

Posts: 2,064   +768
IMO, candle_86 is not treading on conspiracy theory there. There are already cases of laboratory proven decision influencing by stimulating the brain https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/324998
The technique uses ultrasound. I bet there is a way to do it with direct stimulation - just the kind of stimulation Musky proposes here. Give it time; a way will be found.

The article presents the discovery in a beneficial light, however, there is no guarantee it will always be used in a beneficial manner; clandestine actors, IMO, would likely do anything they can to get a technology like this for clandestine purposes

Guess what, so can a crying toddler, screaming fox, a barking dog, a drunk down the street... @the article you linked.

Pharmaceuticals are already used to treat certain disorders and the same case can already be made for that.

You are right there will be people using the technology for the wrong uses, but we had that ever since the first primitive technologies have been invented thousands of years ago.

X can be used for Y, this way of thinking hinders a lot of world advancements.

Automated cars can be hacked or programmed to change course by the Illuminati, satellites can be deployed to precisely target humans and execute, your water supply can be targeted to deliver mind altering drugs and we can keep going down the rabbit hole till either your brain explodes or you truly go insane from paranoia.
 

Mister_K

Posts: 2,064   +768
nope never

" And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:
And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name."
Revelations 13:16/17

I think I will forgo this entirely

Really we going to start quoting the bible? Indeed this discussion ends here.

Edit:

@wiyosaya @candle_86

Just to add. Research conducted now is being done to help people who are paralysed. Being able to walk again or control robots which can do basic human hygiene, food, house chores and offer medical support is priceless. Yes, it reduces jobs for care takers but that boat has sailed a long ago (replacement of jobs with robots).

"Let’s not help people with new technology because what if it ends up listening to our thoughts and control our decisions...”

This tech is not being designed for you and in all likelihood will not be available for normal people for more than 20 years. You have nothing to worry about. If you actually look into what they are doing you will see the objective and understand this is good research. I get that it’s easy to jump to “In the future we will lose our identity because we are all hooked up to computers!” I would worry about that too except that is not what is happening here AND there is no way to know how tech will change over time. Change can be scary but it’s part of life. Learning new ideas and challenging existing methods should be celebrated. The future will be what it is and you and I will have the ability to make our own decisions how we interact with it.
 
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candle_86

Posts: 729   +730
Really we going to start quoting the bible? Indeed this discussion ends here.

Edit:

@wiyosaya @candle_86

Just to add. Research conducted now is being done to help people who are paralysed. Being able to walk again or control robots which can do basic human hygiene, food, house chores and offer medical support is priceless. Yes, it reduces jobs for care takers but that boat has sailed a long ago (replacement of jobs with robots).

"Let’s not help people with new technology because what if it ends up listening to our thoughts and control our decisions...”

This tech is not being designed for you and in all likelihood will not be available for normal people for more than 20 years. You have nothing to worry about. If you actually look into what they are doing you will see the objective and understand this is good research. I get that it’s easy to jump to “In the future we will lose our identity because we are all hooked up to computers!” I would worry about that too except that is not what is happening here AND there is no way to know how tech will change over time. Change can be scary but it’s part of life. Learning new ideas and challenging existing methods should be celebrated. The future will be what it is and you and I will have the ability to make our own decisions how we interact with it.

Wrong, tech like this will eventually be required, look how cash is now being refused and the government isn't stepping in, it's because plastic makes it easier to track. Tech like this is something the government wants, as they add features in the comming years it will one day do your banking preventing identity theft as their excuse, one day it will have GPS to assist in the event of an emergency, it will be sold to us as an advantage, until it's required, then the government will be able to track us at their whim. They want everything digital, it makes their job easier. This is tech even if I was paralized I'd refuse because it leads to something dark and scary. And yes I'll quite the Bible, it warned us.
 

Nobina

Posts: 3,058   +2,859
You are treading on conspiracy area right there. Instead of stopping progress, lobby for transparency and ensure that this will not happen. No matter how much opposition these technologies get, they will happen and masses will adopt them.

Eventually you will be handicapped by your human throughput, the people who adopted these technologies will surpass you. But, we live in a world where choice exists, so, many people will simply not "upgrade" and call it a day at an X point of transhumanism.

Again, transparency and open source is the key here.

-- I would be more worried about possible hacks that will cause damage to the individual over government mind control.

Scepticism is good though, but totally ridiculing this topic/technology is not an answer either because it will happen.
Transparancy IS the key but you really think anything about this will be transparent? You must also trust Google when they say they respect your privacy and data. You know what, maybe when people inject that thing into their brains they immediately realize what they've done.
 

Mister_K

Posts: 2,064   +768
Transparency IS the key but you really think anything about this will be transparent? You must also trust Google when they say they respect your privacy and data. You know what, maybe when people inject that thing into their brains they immediately realize what they've done.

The problem is, if you are worried so much, why even access the Internet? At what point do you just call it a day and let it all take its course. I am completely fine with Google gathering data on me. The data is what allows the free services to operate or do you want pay-per-website to be a thing? In return I have easier life with predictions and target advertising. I still have a choice, or at least I think I do which is good enough for me. Otherwise I will live in paranoia and simply not enjoy life and those around me would certainly not enjoy me being that way either.

I am pretty sure you ignored what I mentioned. NeuralLink specific use case is for people who do not have the luxury to live as we do. Sure eventually that technology will trickle down and it might be of concern for abuse but there is no way to know how tech will change over time. I am pretty sure if you and @candle_86 were not in the position of privilege, you would do anything to be able to walk, talk and generally LIVE again. I am pretty sure you do not understand "how that thing" actually works which is a problem. People used to call rough seas the wrath of Zeus, simply because they did not understand. Same goes for anti-vax.

To put it to perspective, before people like us could voice our opinions on the Internet or simply through a digital platform like the computer, people were sceptical, calling all kinds of conspiracy and shenanigans.

Scepticism is good, but pure ignorance is not.
 

Nobina

Posts: 3,058   +2,859
The problem is, if you are worried so much, why even access the Internet? At what point do you just call it a day and let it all take its course. I am completely fine with Google gathering data on me. The data is what allows the free services to operate or do you want pay-per-website to be a thing? In return I have easier life with predictions and target advertising. I still have a choice, or at least I think I do which is good enough for me. Otherwise I will live in paranoia and simply not enjoy life and those around me would certainly not enjoy me being that way either.

I am pretty sure you ignored what I mentioned. NeuralLink specific use case is for people who do not have the luxury to live as we do. Sure eventually that technology will trickle down and it might be of concern for abuse but there is no way to know how tech will change over time. I am pretty sure if you and @candle_86 were not in the position of privilege, you would do anything to be able to walk, talk and generally LIVE again. I am pretty sure you do not understand "how that thing" actually works which is a problem. People used to call rough seas the wrath of Zeus, simply because they did not understand. Same goes for anti-vax.

To put it to perspective, before people like us could voice our opinions on the Internet or simply through a digital platform like the computer, people were sceptical, calling all kinds of conspiracy and shenanigans.

Scepticism is good, but pure ignorance is not.
I access internet because while I do use popular sites like Google there are still places where I can get reliable information. It's not all bad but you shouldn't ignore that Google wants to control information. You don't have to go all tin-foil, I don't, that is common knowledge by now. Just be aware that it's happening. You don't know whether Google can function without selling your data, you just assume they can't cause they told you so. I'm willing to bet they can, or at least now when they have billions they can surely change some things around but it's never enough for them. I don't like ads of any kind or anything distracting me from information I'm looking for so I would gladly have pay-per website because then services would compete to get your money instead of shoving ads everywhere and still generating traffic because they're free. Why do you think you wouldn't be able to enjoy life without it? I guess people without internet back in the day never enjoyed life :joy:.

If Neuralink allows blind people to see or cripples to walk I'm 100% for that. That is amazing. But as you can see from the title of the article it goes beyond that and Elon talked about it in a podcast. I admit I don't fully understand how Neuralink works (cause it's not even out yet) but if you claim you do you're a liar and something else (cause it's not even out yet). If you have nothing against the idea of living in a utopia, letting others curate information for you, go ahead, nobody can stop you.
I am completely fine with Google gathering data on me
I still have a choice, or at least I think I do which is good enough for me.
I like how you say pure ignorance is bad yet you're discarding all the bad things around you cause you just want to consume.
 

Mister_K

Posts: 2,064   +768
I access internet because while I do use popular sites like Google there are still places where I can get reliable information. It's not all bad but you shouldn't ignore that Google wants to control information. You don't have to go all tin-foil, I don't, that is common knowledge by now. Just be aware that it's happening. You don't know whether Google can function without selling your data, you just assume they can't cause they told you so. I'm willing to bet they can, or at least now when they have billions they can surely change some things around but it's never enough for them. I don't like ads of any kind or anything distracting me from information I'm looking for so I would gladly have pay-per website because then services would compete to get your money instead of shoving ads everywhere and still generating traffic because they're free. Why do you think you wouldn't be able to enjoy life without it? I guess people without internet back in the day never enjoyed life :joy:.

If Neuralink allows blind people to see or cripples to walk I'm 100% for that. That is amazing. But as you can see from the title of the article it goes beyond that and Elon talked about it in a podcast. I admit I don't fully understand how Neuralink works (cause it's not even out yet) but if you claim you do you're a liar and something else (cause it's not even out yet). If you have nothing against the idea of living in a utopia, letting others curate information for you, go ahead, nobody can stop you.


I like how you say pure ignorance is bad yet you're discarding all the bad things around you cause you just want to consume.

The thing is I am not just referring to Google, data collection and targeted advertisement (result of data collection) is a big part of websites revenue. Look at Techspot, it's a case here too. Data collection also allows for better functionality of systems they are collecting from (from UI changes to UX improvements). This is not matter of "what they are telling you". Enfact people like Musk has warned the dangers of Google and AI. The amount of information can be misused and at one point it could be too late, but, you simply can't worry about that, you have no idea how technology will pan out.

Google would certainly not be able to function without selling ads. The PPC ad space is a multi-billion dollar industry. Why would Google not want to monetise their platform for targeted ads when its generating this much. Trust me, if you were in that position, so would you. Here is a decade old article, but just for the perspective - https://www.wordstream.com/articles/google-earnings

You also forget that the revenue generated by Google from various business ventures fuels Science and Technology research, jobs, creators and more. Google is a huge driver in that area. Sure, you could be worried that one day, they will become SkyNet or some Dystopian government. Hell if they joined forces with Amazon we are truly ****ed but, there is competition, meaning this is unlikely. One worrying thing is the control and dictatorship of Web with Google Chrome. They are setting rules in which penalise heavily from poor web optimisations to redefining the web due to the sheer control. That is another convo tho.

So back to NeuralLink.

Streaming and opening a connection to the world wide web with your mind can certainly be dangerous. I don't know much about security so I can't comment if it's truly dangerous. But, not looking forward to the advertisements.

However, the danger would be when you have to have it permanently on as required by government (someone mentioned this above) and unable to turn it off completely or turn off its networking. Or affecting the needs, wants and desires with electrical impulses (not necessarily a bad thing). Like I said though, this is a what if question rather than a question of when. We have no way of seeing the future and how governments are going to be using future technologies or even technologies that currently exist.

What we do know is that people who try and stay "as human as possible" will fall behind. Which is fine, but forget about staying competitive.

This article and narrative of news networks, opinions online, reviews, targeted ads and so forth is being streamed to you. The case you are making can also be made for that too.

I mean we have whitepaper on what and how NeuralLink will work initially. We can't predict the future (I keep repeating this) so it is unknown how else it will be used. But for now, we go off by facts and information we have (on how it will work). See more information on the release video here
or read the white-paper here (https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/703801v4). Oh and brain to machine interfaces already exist.

Utopia will only exist once we have personal VR that is indistinguishable from reality. Until then, there is no such thing as Utopia.

I do want to consume. I consume entertainment, I consume information online by reading Reddit, TechSpot, watching YouTube and so forth. Knowledge is consumption.

TLDR:
Scepticism is good as it keeps us in check. It's the fear part of our brain that prevents us making great big mistakes. However to worry what could happen in 50 years, 100 years, 500 years, in eons is nonsensical (if you want to get some sleep and stay sane). Go by the information that we have now and not what if X if Y.
 
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Mister_K

Posts: 2,064   +768
Ask yourself, do you want corporations inside your brains? Yeah, I didn't think so.

They already are :)

I am more worried about your next door neighbour who now has access to sophisticated 3D printing machines and in the world where materials and technology are advanced enough, they are the real threat. Not corporations but your Jeff over the fence next door in his garage doing all kinds of dodgy ****.
 
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Anything can be used against the individual. A knife can slice bread, but can also kill people. Should we cover in fear and limit ourselves because of potential misuse of technology? No. Be cautions, sure.
A kitchen knife is a closed system. It is neither available, attached, controlled, nor maintained by nameless faceless organizations -- which can change their policy as quickly and easily as they can be purchased.
 
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They already are :)

I am more worried about your next door neighbour who now has access to sophisticated 3D printing machines and in the world where materials and technology are advanced enough, they are the real threat. Not corporations but your Jeff over the fence next door in his garage doing all kinds of dodgy ****.
You are exactly correct. I have been in enough research labs and machine rooms in the middle of the night to know that the real worry is the one grad student who says, "What if we..." or his friend who says, "Wouldn't it be cool, if..." and the Genie that was never to be released by "responsible researchers" gets out of the bottle.

What will happen the day after the first AI which is a better hacker than any human is released or escapes into the net?