Elon Musk says SpaceX can't fund Starlink in Ukraine indefinitely, wants Pentagon to foot...

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midian182

Posts: 8,480   +104
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A hot potato: Elon Musk has been praised for supplying Ukraine with SpaceX Starlink terminals to help in the war against Russia, but the world's richest person has warned that his company can't continue its donations or fund the existing system indefinitely and is asking the Pentagon to start paying for the service.

SpaceX has supplied around 25,000 Starlink terminals to Ukraine since the war began. Musk says the donations have cost the company $80 million and will exceed $100 million by the end of the year.

Ukraine vice prime minister Mykhailo Federov has thanked Musk for the deliveries, which have allowed the country's military and civilians to continue communicating and accessing the internet even as Russia targets its comms infrastructure.

But it seems SpaceX's generosity isn't without its limits. According to a CNN report, SpaceX sent a letter to the Pentagon last month warning that it can no longer continue funding the Starlink service. It's estimated that costs could reach almost $380 million over the next 12 months, and it wants the US government to pay for additional terminals and ongoing service costs.

CNN writes that included in the SpaceX documents delivered to the Pentagon was a request sent to Musk from the Ukrainian military's commanding general, General Valerii Zaluzhniy, for almost 8,000 more terminals.

Musk seems to have confirmed the report's accuracy in several posts today. In reply to a tweet showing a list of the largest US defense contractors, he wrote, "Strange that nothing was leaked about our competitors in space launch & communications, Lockheed & Boeing, who get over $60B …"

Replying to another tweet about how much SpaceX is spending to maintain Starlink in Ukraine, Musk wrote: "In addition to terminals, we have to create, launch, maintain & replenish satellites & ground stations & pay telcos for access to Internet via gateways. We've also had to defend against cyberattacks & jamming, which are getting harder. Burn is approaching ~$20M/month."

Musk also echoed the letter's assertion that SpaceX could not fund the existing system while supplying Ukraine with more terminals, which have data usage 100x greater than typical households.

Musk recently incurred the wrath of Ukraine and much of the West for posting a peace plan that involved the country ceding territory to Russia and remaining neutral. Ukraine's outgoing ambassador to Germany, Andriy Melnyk, told Musk he should "F**k off." When someone suggested Starlink is looking to end support over this comment, Musk said, "We're just following his recommendation."

Russia has previously threatened Musk over his support of Ukraine and warned that the Starlink satellites could be targeted, but much of the goodwill the billionaire earned from Ukraine was lost due to his peace plan poll.

It was recently reported that Musk posted the poll after a conversation with Vladimir Putin in which the Russian president warned he would use a nuclear weapon if Ukraine tried to retake Crimea. Musk denies this, claiming he last met with Putin 18 months ago.

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emmzo

Posts: 811   +1,251
You want satellites? Give 20% territory to Russia. The only thing he's right about, someone should pay him.
 

passwordistaco

Posts: 452   +1,021
How many billions have already disappeared into the black hole? If Ukraine wants to keep expensive satellite communications, it's reasonable for them to pay for it. However, that might cut into the dollars coming out (untraceable) on the other side of the black hole.

I'll give Musk the benefit of the doubt here and assume he started this out of altruism. With costs hitting $20mil per month, it makes sense for him to ask if anybody's willing to pay for the service.
 

dangh

Posts: 851   +1,445
While Musk definitely lost any credentials recently, sure he should not be taking the costs of the network alone. And he does not, this is a Starlink company who used the war as excellent advertisement campaign.
Nevertheless, this cost is part of the war effort to keep madman at the bay, and no single company should be asked to bear that costs. Pentagon will probably cover it at least partially.
But the more Musks post I read recently, the more is visible that this man have no other principles apart money. He was funny... now he is just a creep.
 
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NikoBB

Posts: 99   +60
Offended Musk, allegedly the richest man in the world. For him, 520 million is nonsense (he is going to buy a dummy Twitter for 44 billion, if that). The Ukrainians are fighting for their land, and the immoral Musk at the most crucial moment suddenly and cynically cuts off communications in the troops on the front line, which leads to increased losses. In fact, he is now guilty of unnecessary deaths of Ukrainian soldiers because of that.

How moral is this position? And for the US / EU authorities, 520 million for critical communications for the Ukrainian troops is just nonsense, especially since this is a payment for the end of 2022 and all of 2023.

Let me remind you that just recently the American press was writing with might and main that in the United States more than 300 billion dollars were stolen by fictitious, fraudulent requests for social assistance to small businesses, according to preliminary estimates of auditors.

Critical infrastructure like Starlink, on which the lives of hundreds of thousands of Ukrainian fighters now depend, cannot be controlled by a private nutcase and must be, at least temporarily, for the duration of hostilities, be transferred under the control of the Pentagon, the US authorities. And if Musk opposes this, it should be nationalized. So his profits and losses are simply nothing against the background of the deaths of tens of thousands of people at the most crucial moment, when the territories are being liberated.

I hope that this is only the madness of the wealthy Musk, and not the secret position of the United States+EU, to merge Ukraine (because of the fear of a nuclear war of the entire West and for the sake of this betrayal of all principles) and forcing Ukrainians into an immoral deal as a result of which they will lose significant territories and have already lost the lives of hundreds of thousands of soldiers and civilians.

p.s.
Let me also remind you that the United States, by Biden's direct statement on the White House website, has lost about $2 trillion in Afghanistan over 20 years, I.e. expenses (or rather drank the state budget) were at the level of $ 100 billion for each year, despite the fact that Afghanistan is not close in terms of criticality for the West with the war in Ukraine, which is a priori more expensive than that operation at times and requires much more money. At the same time, real assistance from the United States for 7 months amounted to only about 19-20 billion, or 1/5 of what the Americans spent (or sawed by corrupt officials) in Afghanistan on average for 1 year out of every 20 years. At the same time, they achieved NOTHING and fled from there. Maybe it's time to learn from your own mistakes. Or soon there will be no one and nowhere to study...

If the US and EU authorities are afraid of nuclear blackmail, they have already lost this war (at least morally in the eyes of progressive people in developing countries), despite their multiple superiority in economic and technological power.
 
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okie11

Posts: 32   +96
Musk does not need to keep providing those Starlink systems to Ukraine, he owes them nothing, he was being generous when he first provided them, if they want to continue using them, they should pay for them or return them.
Especially after he was told to f*ck off by the Ukrainian Ambassador to Germany.
 

p51d007

Posts: 3,428   +3,109
This is just another proxy war between "the east and the west" that has been going on since the end of WW2. Korea, Vietnam, Persian Gulf War, Afghanistan, Ukraine, among others.
 

kiwigraeme

Posts: 1,399   +1,038
As I said from day one Russia has already lost - it's just by how much and how long .
Unfortunately I'm not sure the average Russian - will understand their culpability - They will be like many Serbians denial and whining .
Lots of men fleeing - not because they are against the land grab and cleansing - but because they know their is a good chance they will die - untrained , poor logistics ) cold hungry winter coming - now rain in trenches , Putin does no care - folks from Moscow & St Petersburg don't care - as less than 1% sent to meat grinder - We are all one people BS - Ukrainians are really Russians that need a lesson a culture destroyed a language eradicated .
Yet the send ethnic minorities from the far reaches - whole villages decimated as their men folk taken and swapped for a sheep or some food stuff ( look it up ).

As a Russian you can love the motherland - but you are not Übermensch,
Kazaks etc are telling you to go jump in the lake .
Yes you have been fed endless propaganda painting yourselves as victims while the powerful fleece you , abuse and use you
You have not even learnt not to cheat at sports - no matter how many bans .

The world now will ramp up other energy resources , your smart and brightness flee .
You could of integrated in the world more - but you still wanted control over the Stans etc

Now you are flailing around in death throes in Ukraine - sending missiles excepting critical power/transport to indiscriminately kill civilians .
You don't control the skies - you can't carpet bomb women and children like in Syria and Chechnya .
We have called your bluff - you have squandered your resources on yachts, palaces , corrupt military,

How many broken Russian men mentally , physically will spend the rest of their lives uncared for fully as they were losers ( think Vietnam vets for a longtime ) ?

Russia can't put Battalions together - Tanks aren't great with out trained infantry and some air support . Artillery has been their go to - Ukraine is now winning that one - I don't look at live fire maps - but from reading - must live fire has been on Rus side for last month or so .
Ukraine now has smart artillery's shells - not cheap , maybe not lots - but still a lot cheaper than HIMARSs
 

AlaskaGuy

Posts: 744   +612
As I said from day one Russia has already lost - it's just by how much and how long .
Unfortunately I'm not sure the average Russian - will understand their culpability - They will be like many Serbians denial and whining .
Lots of men fleeing - not because they are against the land grab and cleansing - but because they know their is a good chance they will die - untrained , poor logistics ) cold hungry winter coming - now rain in trenches , Putin does no care - folks from Moscow & St Petersburg don't care - as less than 1% sent to meat grinder - We are all one people BS - Ukrainians are really Russians that need a lesson a culture destroyed a language eradicated .
Yet the send ethnic minorities from the far reaches - whole villages decimated as their men folk taken and swapped for a sheep or some food stuff ( look it up ).

As a Russian you can love the motherland - but you are not Übermensch,
Kazaks etc are telling you to go jump in the lake .
Yes you have been fed endless propaganda painting yourselves as victims while the powerful fleece you , abuse and use you
You have not even learnt not to cheat at sports - no matter how many bans .

The world now will ramp up other energy resources , your smart and brightness flee .
You could of integrated in the world more - but you still wanted control over the Stans etc

Now you are flailing around in death throes in Ukraine - sending missiles excepting critical power/transport to indiscriminately kill civilians .
You don't control the skies - you can't carpet bomb women and children like in Syria and Chechnya .
We have called your bluff - you have squandered your resources on yachts, palaces , corrupt military,

How many broken Russian men mentally , physically will spend the rest of their lives uncared for fully as they were losers ( think Vietnam vets for a longtime ) ?

Russia can't put Battalions together - Tanks aren't great with out trained infantry and some air support . Artillery has been their go to - Ukraine is now winning that one - I don't look at live fire maps - but from reading - must live fire has been on Rus side for last month or so .
Ukraine now has smart artillery's shells - not cheap , maybe not lots - but still a lot cheaper than HIMARSs
What's any of that have to do with Musk wanting to be paid?
 

AlaskaGuy

Posts: 744   +612
According to this article, Musk has been getting paid all along. https://www.popsci.com/technology/elon-musk-ukraine-starlink/

Musk is likely just butt-hurt that he got told to F'off for his proposed (and asinine, IMO) solution to the unprovoked war Russia is waging on the Ukraine.

This is typical Musk BS.
Nowhere in that article does it show Musk being paid. btw what has happened to the $100 billion of US taxpayer dollars that have went to Ukraine since Russia invaded?
 

captaincranky

Posts: 19,285   +8,432
So Musk wants to bleed more money out of the US government. That should come as a big f**king surprise to absolutely no one.

If the a**hole can afford to buy Twitter, he should be able to afford his (so called), "charitable grants", to Ukraine.

Since as another thread mentioned, "starlink" is slowing down as its user base expands. He'll take the money, and use it to launch more satellites. Let;s face facts, even reusable boosters, cost a sh!tload of money
 

AlaskaGuy

Posts: 744   +612
So Musk wants to bleed more money out of the US government. That should come as a big f**king surprise to absolutely no one.

If the a**hole can afford to buy Twitter, he should be able to afford his (so called), "charitable grants", to Ukraine.

Since as another thread mentioned, "starlink" is slowing down as its user base expands. He'll take the money, and use it to launch more satellites. Let;s face facts, even reusable boosters, cost a sh!tload of money
Musk wants to be paid. btw why has the US given Ukraine $100 billion US tax dollars during a recession?
 

captaincranky

Posts: 19,285   +8,432
Nowhere in that article does it show Musk being paid. btw what has happened to the $100 billion of US taxpayer dollars that have went to Ukraine since Russia invaded?
As I said before, and I'll pointlessly say again, 100 billion is a small price to pay tor preventing Putin's expansionist delusions of reestablishing the former Soviet Union.

I know you think that t money could have been used to fund a border wall. But after all, Mexico was to pay for that. Remember.

Have you ever consider that the massive influx of refugees to the US is not caused by Biden's immigration policies. But maybe, just maybe, it could be because is because the rest of the world is suffering inflation, as bad, or worse than we are.

Now, give it a f**king rest. Musk should be funding Starlink in Ukraine under the principle of, "noblesse oblige". I mean, look at all the face time he would get on camera for it. And really, isn't that what Must is all about, publicity, and talking money out of other people and government's pockets.
 

AlaskaGuy

Posts: 744   +612
As I said before, and I'll pointlessly say again, 100 billion is a small price to pay tor preventing Putin's expansionist delusions of reestablishing the former Soviet Union.

I know you think that t money could have been used to fund a border wall. But after all, Mexico was to pay for that. Remember.

Have you ever consider that the massive influx of refugees to the US is not caused by Biden's immigration policies. But maybe, just maybe, it could be because is because the rest of the world is suffering inflation, as bad, or worse than we are.

Now, give it a f**king rest. Musk should be funding Starlink in Ukraine under the principle of, "noblesse oblige". I mean, look at all the face time he would get on camera for it. And really, isn't that what Must is all about, publicity, and talking money out of other people and government's pockets.
lolz

$100 billion could pay for several border walls with billions to spare so try again. And last time I checked the US has immigration laws on the books and none of them say anything about having an open border is legal. Musk owes Ukraine nothing as does the US taxpayers with me being one of them.
 

Endymio

Posts: 1,950   +2,042
We are all one people BS - Ukrainians are really Russians that need a lesson a culture destroyed a language eradicated
And yet it was Ukraine who banned its ethnic Russian citizens from speaking their own language. And it was all the way back in 2015 that the EU, the UN, and even the US Congress began sanctioning groups like Ukraine's swastika-wearing Azov Brigade, for its attempts to drive ethnic Russian Jews from Donbas, in other to meet their dreams of "racial purity" for Ukraine.
 

Endymio

Posts: 1,950   +2,042
As I said before, and I'll pointlessly say again, 100 billion is a small price to pay tor preventing Putin's expansionist delusions of reestablishing the former Soviet Union.
It's pointless because it's nonsense. In the last 30 years, Putin has taken zero land that wasn't already occupied Russians. And Russia's demands before the invasion -- and during the March peace talks -- were quite simple: adhere to the Minsk Accords granting autonomy to Donbas (which Ukraine had already agreed to, until Zelensky disavowed it) and an agreement to not base NATO missiles or other heavy weapons in Ukraine, right on Russia's doorstep.

To demonstrate how absurd your claim is, let's look back to 2008, when the nation of Georgia attacked Russian troops in South Ossetia. Putin counter-attacked, and to make his point, invaded all of Georgia. Then what? After making his point, his troops packed up and left. Had he wished to "reestablish the Soviet Union", he'd have certainly kept all that territory.
 

PEnnn

Posts: 1,010   +1,361
How many billions have already disappeared into the black hole? If Ukraine wants to keep expensive satellite communications, it's reasonable for them to pay for it. However, that might cut into the dollars coming out (untraceable) on the other side of the black hole.

I'll give Musk the benefit of the doubt here and assume he started this out of altruism. With costs hitting $20mil per month, it makes sense for him to ask if anybody's willing to pay for the service.

The amazingly generous jerk is worth 300 billion ..and he is worried about 80 million!!! He starts donating then he wants to be reimbursed....a typical conservative imbecile.
 

AlaskaGuy

Posts: 744   +612
The amazingly generous jerk is worth 300 billion ..and he is worried about 80 million!!! He starts donating then he wants to be reimbursed....a typical conservative imbecile.
He helped save Ukraine's arse while giving them $100 million dollars of free service and now he wants to be paid for any forthcoming services. Nothing wrong with that ... unless you're a capitalist hating commie.
 

AlaskaGuy

Posts: 744   +612
You mean the American tax payer!!

Not the guy who made a great deal about his generosity and is now a pathetic cheapskate who won't spend .01 % of his 300 billion!!
If Ukraine wants handouts why don't they ask the EU? Last time I checked Ukraine bordered four EU countries.
 

Endymio

Posts: 1,950   +2,042
The amazingly generous jerk is worth 300 billion ..and he is worried about 80 million!!!
Allow me to explain a basic fact of finance. Musk's net worth on paper is just under $200 billion at present (the market's taken some major hits this year). However, the only way he can realize those gains is by selling his personal shares in SpaceX and Tesla. Selling more than a small amount of shares would severely depress the stock price, causing his net worth to plummet further, and, as most of those shares were earned as a California resident, require him to pay up to 50% of the proceeds in income tax. In short, his true net worth is far smaller than that paper figure, and his actual liquid assets at any time are likely far less than $100M. Last year he was forced to sell a sizeable block of Tesla stock, simply to pay his taxes.

But of course all this is secondary. The primary point is that it's HIS money, to spend how he wishes. When he starts complaining how you spend your paycheck, you can complain how he spends his.
 
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