Elon Musk tweets offer of "single combat" with Vladimir Putin for Ukraine

eforce

Posts: 1,001   +1,452
It's good that you have the luxury of thinking about geopolitics so relaxed in, I suppose, a democratic country. I live in eastern Europe, in an ex-communist country and half of century of russian hegemony had brought only poverty, oppression, terror and dehumanization. I'm telling you, there's a reason everyone here wants to embrace the West, because whatever the flaws of democracies, a person can reach his/her true potential, because they are free. A lot of Russians want that too and a democracy in Russia would probably make it a truly big power. However, we can debate any time the problems of the West, but this is not "whataboutism". Putin's Russia is turning more and more into a stalinist state and it's only going to bring misery, hardships and distraught and force people back into a dark era that should be long forgotten, including his fellow Russians. So sure, you can root for Putin and justify "geopolitically" his atrocities and crimes, blaming the west for "inciting" him, blaming Ukraine for wanting to create its own path, doing his work in sowing division, but remember, you should be grateful that you are free to say whatever you want, you should be grateful you live in a democracy and have the opportunities you have and then you will see what good vs bad really means.

It's the fear of a Western backed coup and its expansion eastwards which is causing Russia, like China, to become more autocratic to defend their sovereignty.

I recommend reading Putin's speech in full on the reasons given for the invasion; Ukraine attacking rebel provinces since 2014, passed laws taking away minority/Russian language rights (other countries like Hungary/EU have concerns about these laws too), pursuing NATO membership.

Ukraine in 2014 could have followed the Finnish path and become a neutral EU member with a guarantee of neutrality to Moscow, something still on offer by Putin.

In West you have the freedom to say what is mainstream or you risk getting cancelled or in some parts of Western Europe, fined/jailed.
 

emmzo

Posts: 630   +832
It's the fear of a Western backed coup and its expansion eastwards which is causing Russia, like China, to become more autocratic to defend their sovereignty.

I recommend reading Putin's speech in full on the reasons given for the invasion; Ukraine attacking rebel provinces since 2014, passed laws taking away minority/Russian language rights (other countries like Hungary/EU have concerns about these laws too), pursuing NATO membership.

Ukraine in 2014 could have followed the Finnish path and become a neutral EU member with a guarantee of neutrality to Moscow, something still on offer by Putin.

In West you have the freedom to say what is mainstream or you risk getting cancelled or in some parts of Western Europe, fined/jailed.
I don`t need to read his garbage, because I saw Putin`s speech live. A chill got through my spine. He said he doesn`t recognize any ex-soviet state, which basically means he will start a war with each of them and most likely NATO over the Baltic countries. He also specified NATO should retreat to year 1997, so countries like mine should be left at his mercy. He claimed Ukraine is part of Russia, even though Kyiv is older than Moscow. He said he`s going to "denazify" Ukraine, which means taking over the free elected government of a country, whose leader is Jewish, btw. And him talking about minority Russians rights when he killed over half of million Chechens and Georgians is ridiculous and more so because the vast majority of the Russian minority in Ukraine fights Putin alongside Ukrainians. Now, wouldn`t you pursue a NATO membership if large chunks of your country were torn up (Crimeea, Luhansk and Donetsk) ?
 
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captaincranky

Posts: 18,797   +7,723
Putin is smart. Sure hes an invading dictator. But that doesnt make him "stupid". Putin has a lot of of leadership characteristics. But then so did Hitler. Recognising this doesnt make anyone a "Russian sympathiser".

Although in my opinion, invading the Ukraine was not a smart decision.
I'll think you'll agree, (or possibly not), that's Trumps inflection and the demeanor of his speech, if anything, smacks of admiration.

Someone, (I think Steven Colbert), remarked, "Trump thinks everything is a land deal".

Trump: "He got a whole country for two cents worth of sanctions".

You can't even sneak up on Trump from upwind, and not smell that he's a piece of sh!t.
 

Ohnooze

Posts: 233   +455
I'll think you'll agree, (or possibly not), that's Trumps inflection and the demeanor of his speech, if anything, smacks of admiration.

Someone, (I think Steven Colbert), remarked, "Trump thinks everything is a land deal".

Trump: "He got a whole country for two cents worth of sanctions".

You can't even sneak up on Trump from upwind, and not smell that he's a piece of sh!t.
Trump may be a piece of crap but Stephen Colbert, like 99% of the media and hollywood, has not an ounce of credibility. Their opinion is just completely irrelevant. Similar to listening to Fox talk about the Clintons...too biased to even matter.
 

terzaerian

Posts: 1,370   +1,968
It's good that you have the luxury of thinking about geopolitics so relaxed in, I suppose, a democratic country. I live in eastern Europe, in an ex-communist country and half of century of russian hegemony had brought only poverty, oppression, terror and dehumanization. I'm telling you, there's a reason everyone here wants to embrace the West, because whatever the flaws of democracies, a person can reach his/her true potential, because they are free. A lot of Russians want that too and a democracy in Russia would probably make it a truly big power. However, we can debate any time the problems of the West, but this is not "whataboutism". Putin's Russia is turning more and more into a stalinist state and it's only going to bring misery, hardships and distraught and force people back into a dark era that should be long forgotten, including his fellow Russians. So sure, you can root for Putin and justify "geopolitically" his atrocities and crimes, blaming the west for "inciting" him, blaming Ukraine for wanting to create its own path, doing his work in sowing division, but remember, you should be grateful that you are free to say whatever you want, you should be grateful you live in a democracy and have the opportunities you have and then you will see what good vs bad really means.
I do not love Russia, or Putin. The opposite, in fact - I'm acutely aware of his Stalinist revanchism and his desire to resurrect, in some form, the Soviet empire. I've friends in the Baltic states that feel the same as you.

But I love my own leaders less because they represent something which is quickly becoming evident will lead to something even worse than 20th century communism - a global state sympathetic to those ideals and envious of its control, powered by the internet and AI. "Manmade horrors beyond your comprehension," as put by Tesla. You may have looked up to the West of the past as a beacon of freedom, but it is a light that every day current-day Westerners and their leaders are striving to snuff out and pervert into something sinister, and giving them free reign over the globe would be disastrous.

I don't want Russia in Ukraine, nor do I trust NATO in Ukraine. I think if Ukraine was wiser it would have strove to be leader of a neutral bloc, a buffer between the west and Russia, but unfortunately that is out the window now, and I know the worst mistake that could be made now would be to escalate the situation and start another forever-war that destroys the next generation the way the Iraq and Afghanistan wars destroyed my own.
 
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paul1122

Posts: 241   +258
That guy has not done a single thing.

He comes from a rich South African white family (As in, directly benefited from Apartheid South Africa) got lucky with some early investments and has done nothing but attach his name and money to existing projects.

Even more than the usual, he's done nothing to actually build all the tech his companies are capable of. That's the work of engineers and workers, often poorly compensated and mistreated just so that Musk can become the richest person in history with their creativity, intelligence and dedication.

If anything, Musk has been routinely shown to get in the way of more significant advances with stupid ideas like the hyperloop.

Is this attitude because he said something anti woke a while ago, and the woke can't seem to cancel him?
Just wondering. Guys an *** with money.
 

emmzo

Posts: 630   +832
I do not love Russia, or Putin. The opposite, in fact - I'm acutely aware of his Stalinist revanchism and his desire to resurrect, in some form, the Soviet empire. I've friends in the Baltic states that feel the same as you.

But I love my own leaders less because they represent something which is quickly becoming evident will lead to something even worse than 20th century communism - a state sympathetic to those ideals and envious of its control, powered by the internet and AI. "Manmade horrors beyond your comprehension," as put by Tesla. You may have looked up to the West of the past as a beacon of freedom, but it is a light that every day current-day Westerners and their leaders are striving to snuff out and pervert into something sinister, and giving them free reign over the globe would be disastrous.

I don't want Russia in Ukraine, nor do I trust NATO in Ukraine. I think if Ukraine was wiser it would have strove to be leader of a neutral bloc, a buffer between the west and Russia, but unfortunately that is out the window now.
I still believe people have a voice in a democracy and you have the power to make a change. The problem in the West right now is people are divided so much that they don`t trust change is actually possible. They basically don`t trust they have any power anymore and so they feel lost and aggrieved and gave up hope in democracy. But always remember you`re not alone and trust me, if enough people unite and push back, no one can stop the people. Democracy only dies when people forget they have the power.
 
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emmzo

Posts: 630   +832
Can you link to where he said that?
Read his statement again, but not ad literam. He said these republics were created by the Bolsheviks, but they did not make sense outside the Soviet Union, ergo their legitimacy was only given by corrupt politicians in the Communist Party that collapsed the USSR... It is also well known his deepest aggrievance is the fall of USSR, so he will not say it explicitly, but it's not so hard to put one and two together.
 
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eforce

Posts: 1,001   +1,452
Read his statement again, but not ad literam. He said these republics were created by the Bolsheviks, but they did not make sense outside the Soviet Union, ergo their legitimacy was only given by corrupt politicians in the Communist Party that collapsed the USSR... It is also well known his deepest aggrievance is the fall of USSR, so he will not say it explicitly, but it's not so hard to put one and two together.

It would appear Putin said quite the opposite:

"I have already said that Russia accepted the new geopolitical reality after the dissolution of the USSR. We have been treating all new post-Soviet states with respect and will continue to act this way. We respect and will respect their sovereignty, as proven by the assistance we provided to Kazakhstan when it faced tragic events and a challenge in terms of its statehood and integrity. However, Russia cannot feel safe, develop, and exist while facing a permanent threat from the territory of today’s Ukraine."

Here is the transcript: https://thesaker.is/address-by-the-president-of-the-russian-federation-february-24-2022/

Can you please quote the part you are referencing?
 

Bobbydpue

Posts: 356   +236
The US instigated this crisis by attempting to finance and arm Ukrainians into hostilities against Russians in Luhansk and Donetsk.
This could be the dumbest thing I've read in a long time. Russia sent their military over the Ukrainian border to attack Ukraine, but the US instigated it by attempting to help Ukraine fight people who are attacking them? So if you broke into someone's home and started punching the homeowner they would be the instigators when they started to defend themselves?
 

Geralt

Posts: 1,140   +1,770
I do not love Russia, or Putin. The opposite, in fact - I'm acutely aware of his Stalinist revanchism and his desire to resurrect, in some form, the Soviet empire. I've friends in the Baltic states that feel the same as you.

But I love my own leaders less because they represent something which is quickly becoming evident will lead to something even worse than 20th century communism - a global state sympathetic to those ideals and envious of its control, powered by the internet and AI. "Manmade horrors beyond your comprehension," as put by Tesla. You may have looked up to the West of the past as a beacon of freedom, but it is a light that every day current-day Westerners and their leaders are striving to snuff out and pervert into something sinister, and giving them free reign over the globe would be disastrous.

I don't want Russia in Ukraine, nor do I trust NATO in Ukraine. I think if Ukraine was wiser it would have strove to be leader of a neutral bloc, a buffer between the west and Russia, but unfortunately that is out the window now, and I know the worst mistake that could be made now would be to escalate the situation and start another forever-war that destroys the next generation the way the Iraq and Afghanistan wars destroyed my own.
If you weren't so anti-Russia I could love you more.
 

Bobbydpue

Posts: 356   +236
It's the fear of a Western backed coup and its expansion eastwards which is causing Russia, like China, to become more autocratic to defend their sovereignty.

I recommend reading Putin's speech in full on the reasons given for the invasion; Ukraine attacking rebel provinces since 2014, passed laws taking away minority/Russian language rights (other countries like Hungary/EU have concerns about these laws too), pursuing NATO membership.

Ukraine in 2014 could have followed the Finnish path and become a neutral EU member with a guarantee of neutrality to Moscow, something still on offer by Putin.

In West you have the freedom to say what is mainstream or you risk getting cancelled or in some parts of Western Europe, fined/jailed.
I don't see how anyone could form these opinions

"Ukraine attacking rebel provinces since 2014" Rebel provinces? You mean the parts of Ukraine Russian troops invaded and have been launching attacks from since 2014? Ukraine was defending itself from Russians who crossed the boarder and started attacking Ukraine. You can't break into someone's house, beat the residents up, and call them the aggressors. That's what Putin said and you believed him. How gullible can you be?

"passed laws taking away minority/Russian language rights" This didn't happen. Putin made it up just like he made up Ukraine being a Nazi run country.

The reason Ukraine has been increasing it's security posture is because Russia is attacking Ukraine. The reason NATO has been increasing their security posture and allowing other countries into the organization is because Russia is activity threatening the security of Europe. NATO hasn't invaded any country and has never acted, because it isn't, like an offensive organization. You're ignorant and gullible if you blindly believe Putin without looking at what Russia has actually done in the past 10 years or what they did to Chechnya once Putin came into power.
 

wiyosaya

Posts: 7,821   +6,787
Though to be honest I think it was all tongue in cheek. Look at his response to Kadyrov.
IMO, there's no doubt Musky was trolling him. Yet the news media jumps on anything Musky does because - clicks. ;)
He's trolling...you guys need to not take it so serious. He's just acting stupid.
Undoubtedly, Musky is the very definition of a troll - like the time he called that diver a pedo. :rolleyes:
 

captaincranky

Posts: 18,797   +7,723
He's trolling...you guys need to not take it so serious. He's just acting stupid.
We, (at least most of us) are well aware that Musk is "trolling". Nor are we taking Musk's challenge, "so seriously".. To be perfectly blunt, that light bulb that just went on over your head, is not as bright as it could be...

I am absolutely and resolutely NOT a fan of Musk. However, in this case, I applaud his efforts to get under Putin's skin.

To reference the state of mind world sanctions have levied on Putin, he just announced sanctions on several members of the White House staff.Most notably "Joseph R Biden". Well, ironically, President Biden is a "Jr.". So one has to wonder if Putin is sanctioning" Biden's dead father.

Another notable to incur Putin's "wrath", is White House press secretary Jen Psaki, also known by a derogatory nickname coined by the "eminent" Senator Ted Cruz as, "Peppermint Patty".

This was brought up in a member of the WH press corp, to which Ms. Psaki replied, (albeit in a more professional diplomatic manner), "DILLIGAF"

As for the Putin supporters here, the Kremlin's rhetoric announcing, "our nuclear forces are on high alert", you would be naive to assume that president Biden is heading for a bunker because of Putin's bellicose bullsh!t. I'm sure our nuclear readiness, or lack thereof is not what you imagine, fancy, or would like it to be. Joe Biden has the common sense not to further inflame the situation by getting into a shouting match with that piece of sh!t running the Kremlin.
 

Ohnooze

Posts: 233   +455
We, (at least most of us) are well aware that Musk is "trolling". Nor are we taking Musk's challenge, "so seriously".. To be perfectly blunt, that light bulb that just went on over your head, is not as bright as it could be...
lol, very nice.

Well a lot of these comments sound like they believed it was meant to be serious. Hard to tell...but hey thanks for the compliment. Stay classy. :laughing: