European Union aiming to ban new combustion engine cars starting 2035

Fearghast

Posts: 594   +541
Germany does not have enough power this winter to everyone's homes.

If that doesn't wake the German people up to how destructive the current "green" EU policies are, I don't know what will.
IMHO, the biggest problem of Germany is their fear of nuclear power. I know no politic will ever push nuclear, because they fear they won't be elected again because of public perception of a green goo barrel with radiation logo on it, but it would be a perfect solution that would solve the problem right now ... and with significantly less waste (+CO2) compared to other widely available alternatives (like coal).
 

kiwigraeme

Posts: 1,399   +1,040
A lot of fearful people here - as for this winter in Europe - if not severe - then enough gas supplies .
More holding tanks will be built as ships currently turning away in future . If cold then yes a problem - I'm sure Europe will find a solution .

Think - all you doomsayers about ICE engines being banned are so silly with your fear .
This is only for new cars - plenty of ICE cars still floating around - they will be more efficient as well ,
Buy a ICE car in 2034 if you are worried - or a second hand one in 2036 - stockpile them if you want.

This is not that big of a deal - yes there will be new battery tech. The power will be there .

As for the poster saying humans will cope - yes the rich will - be prepared for more heat deaths, economic migrants , nor insects , floods, droughts , diseases etc

However except for the innocent my concern is not for humans - but as custodians of this earth - we are in one of the largest mass extinction periods in all of history. Just thinking about humans - shows selfishness in the extreme - and a sad disconnect with the planet - why not go the full hog and be a nihilist - what does it matter?

I don't have much respect for boomer man-made climate denialists - they are nearly all dishonest .
Older white people - who 15 years screamed it was all lies the world was getting warmer - that scientist were massaging the data - Not one of them has admitted they got that wrong - not one - they just lie - not caused by man , just a unknown natural cycle , it was warmer in Roman times , scientists predicted an iceage in the 70s , Florida is now meant to be under water - all rubbish that is easily debunked .
No liars the lot of them - you know what you were arguing on behalf of oil companies 10 - 15 years ago - yet here you are still telling lies on their behalf.

None of these liars in 20 years will even take any blame - they should have tried harder , not my fault , what could I do - I never said that , I never wrote that- like German grandparents saying they never supported Hitler .
When you met an old boomer saying BS now that climate change is not man made - know that they have been most likely been lying for a decade.
 

Kam7r

Posts: 169   +340
Germany does not have enough power this winter to everyone's homes.

If that doesn't wake the German people up to how destructive the current "green" EU policies are, I don't know what will.
the problem is not this EU policy but the German's Green party policies lol , they almost destroyed the german electricity sector by themselves
 

Ludak021

Posts: 775   +590
"https://www.oica.net/category/climate-change-and-co2/"

15.9% for all transport, not just passenger cars, is the share. Electricity generation is almost 50%. So, ban the thing that you can, because people will have no choice, and then increase the thing (by tenfold) that pollutes the most because EVs need it.
That's even worse than banning the use of cheap natural resources.
 

bviktor

Posts: 1,158   +1,690
There's no way demand for batteries for EV cars will be able to be kept up with in such a short timeframe. Nor will the electrical grid be able to be improved upon for the high demand of extra electricity.

This is a pipe dream that's not going to end well. Ideally a dead line should be out to 2050...I could see nearly 30 years down the line having things setup correctly to handle the gradual change over from ICE to electric, but not 13 years (well, 12 years from now seeing as how 2022 is dang near over).
EU new sales: 16% full electric. 24% have a plug.

https://cleantechnica.com/2022/10/25/europe-electric-car-sales-16-fully-electric-24-have-a-plug/

China, the world's biggest market: 26% full electric, 35% with a plug.

https://cleantechnica.com/2022/10/24/china-electric-car-sales-35-share-of-auto-sales-in-september/

Both of these markets stood at about ONE percent 5 years ago.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elect...le:Market_shares_EV_China_EU_US_2015_2020.png

We're in 2022 now. We have THIRTEEN years to go. There's absolutely nothing unrealistic about the 2035 ban. In fact, there's a 99% chance we'll get there way sooner, because this is gonna snowball really hard really soon, it's not a linear curve.

They're merely stating the obvious with legislation like these, but apparently there's peeps out there that are still completely unaware of the current market and trends. I guess we DO need them to condition the population, because you, as a tech site reader still call this a "pipe dream", even though BEVs been around for quite some time now. Don't you believe your own eyes?

In fact, certain countries are already getting there. Norway's pure ICE sales have been lingering below 10% (yes, you read that right) for more than a year now and they're planning to ban ICE by 2025 (but there's already talks to bring it even sooner). BEV stands at 78%, PHEV at 11%.

https://cleantechnica.com/2022/10/04/norway-bev-share-up/

How about Sweden? 35% BEV, 20% PHEV.

https://cleantechnica.com/2022/10/03/sweden-bevs/

The other confused comments about the current natural gas situation thanks to Putler are completely misguided as well since those topics have zero relevance to energy supply and light duty vehicles 13 years later. Certain countries are already 100% off the Russian gas supply, and the rest will follow in the coming couple of years. Not that BEVs would run on natural gas in the first place.
 
Last edited:

Burty117

Posts: 4,700   +3,067
Not that BEVs would run on natural gas in the first place.
I mean, they absolutely do, in the UK at least, natural gas power stations make up most of our energy output. It's a large part of why our bills are so stupidly large at the moment.
 
Degrowth? What is this 'degrowth' you speak of? Is this something akin to allowing millions of third world economic migrants into the EU .. is that the 'degrowth' you speak of.

btw the Dutch being the Dutch are already on it. They're preparing (grooming) their people to start eating insects just like their UN masters instructed them.




Hi there,
As I am from the Netherlands and therefor the EU, I wanted to reply.
If you really think that the Netherlands is the big problem you'll have to think again brother.
All over the world its a mess, look at how much world leaders have joined the WEF.
Yes, in the Netherlands it's a big propagandized mess right now, but not as bad as the Democratic parts of the US.
I would suggest you to research the roots of all problems, because it's everywhere.
Just like everywhere there are people that are awake and know what's lurking in the shadows.
Therefor a lot of these people live in the Netherlands, they know and wont comply.
 

Plutoisaplanet

Posts: 892   +1,423
They're merely stating the obvious with legislation like these, but apparently there's peeps out there that are still completely unaware of the current market and trends. I guess we DO need them to condition the population, because you, as a tech site reader still call this a "pipe dream", even though BEVs been around for quite some time now. Don't you believe your own eyes?

In fact, certain countries are already getting there. Norway's pure ICE sales have been lingering below 10% (yes, you read that right) for more than a year now and they're planning to ban ICE by 2025 (but there's already talks to bring it even sooner). BEV stands at 78%, PHEV at 11%.
Having market dominance is not a reason to ban ICE vehicles (otherwise EVs would’ve been banned long ago). If the motivation is to protect the planet, then it would be. But EVs having market dominance actually creates almost no benefit to banning ICE vehicles, because at that point you’d be only marginally helping the planet any further. Instead for individuals who decided that an EV is not right for them in spite of everyone else buying EVs, you’re eliminating that available choice for a few. Another words, banning ICE vehicles will harm the minority for outdated reasons.

I’m all for switching over completely to EVs, but I’m not for forcing people to do so, especially with politicians making the decision. I am in favor of letting the market do it, because it will when it’s right. It’s not like ICE vehicles are getting any cheaper or much better, so it’s inevitable that it’ll happen without government intervention.
 

dangh

Posts: 854   +1,447
I'm driving EV for some time and I'm very happy with this approach. I see no reason to keep using smelly and loud cars anymore.
But one thing sure - I'd love to have more modular nuclear reactors across EU. That is the best electricity source with support of renewables and if we want to ramp up EV usage, we need much more independent and reliable source of electricity.
 

scavengerspc

Posts: 2,910   +3,219
TechSpot Elite
But EVs having market dominance actually creates almost no benefit to banning ICE vehicles, because at that point you’d be only marginally helping the planet any further. Instead for individuals who decided that an EV is not right for them in spite of everyone else buying EVs, you’re eliminating that available choice for a few.
I agree with you 100%. I hate the thought of smokers going away completely. Especially since, as you said, the numbers will eventually be small enough to render them insignificant.

The biggest problem I see is what a gallon of gas would cost with such a drop in demand.
 

someOtherGuy

Posts: 58   +32
Mostly because unlike the US and large parts of Canada, lots of European cities are not just vast oceans of asphalt as far as the eye can see that are desgined to pretty much force you to own a car. Public transport and even just biking around is a) Infintively less likely to kill you and b) Way more likely to actually be enough for most people without owning a car.

Ohhh biking, the "green solution" (human power): how about biking at night, lets say, for a hospital run? How about biking on a Florida, Arizona, or Madrid summer? In the other hand, on a North Dakota, Stockholm, or Moscow winter?

Public transport is the solution for the caged city duelers. How is it supposed to work on rural areas? Don't you think is weird that the hardest opposition to all these policies comes from there? It's nice when everything you need is biking distance away from you, like food, that comes from markets ;-)

2) The issue is that even if you disagree and want to somehow talk over Europeans who are doing fine without cars, people are not understanding than 2035 is already 15 years too late at this rate.

So if we're going to have to move around in bikes and reserve cars for people who truly need them like people with disabilities or the other option is JUST DIE do you guys get that there's really no option but to go carbon free at this point?

Food for thought on you "carbon free" target: every animal in this planet (including humans) exhale CO2, so, once you're done with cars, ships, planes (I hope cars are only the beginning, those planes produce an absurd amount of CO2, and so does the ships), factories and everything that "produces" CO2 you'll still need to tackle the animals. I'll let you to ponder your options.

3) And just for the black flag folks out there: No I don't think that even immediate policies (Let alone policies for over 10 years into the future) will do anything to even slow down climate change and what we would need to be urgently talking about is degrowth and in a radical fashion.

Climate has always changed, that's a probable reason for the absence of big dinosaur like reptiles (bigger than a komodo dragon or a crocodile or a turtle) which actually proves that the Earth has "survived" hotter times. Assuming you're worried about "climate", you'd then be worried about the destruction of habitats by it (including human, which is far from worrisome since we have A/C and heaters), which wouldn't make sense to tackle with bird killing windmills, river destroying hydros, and soil destroying lithium mines.
 

Geralt

Posts: 1,320   +2,149
It's good to remove pollution from cities. Now, my question is: Aren't we merely moving the pollution to power plants where the electricity to feed EVs is generated?
 

Underdog

Posts: 283   +182
I'm not entirely sure about that, in France we're about to open the biggest Lithium mine in the whole continent, we have new big @ss nuclear reactors in construction and don't forget that we have a really big public transportation to the point I didn't needed a car for 10+ years... I'm not quite fond of politicians and I'm normally really suspicious about them but I think this may be possible to manage... time will tell
I wouldn't be so quick to praise the opening of a huge lithium mine in France having read about the pollution is causes locally. A huge amount of ore has to be processed in its extraction and uses tens of thousands of litres of water. Public transport in France is only evident in the large cities. Forget not that 95% of France is rural and those of us who live there have little or no access to any public transport at all. My suggestion for the future is that we in rural areas get back to a horse and cart, the horse provides a useful byeproduct that can be used to fertilise the food crops in our gardens and instead of buying useless plastic crap from China we set up small wind chargers and solar panels to power our homes. The grid will be too stressed trying to keep all the electric cars fed.
 

TempleOrion

Posts: 98   +83
This is a no-brainer and easily achievable. BTW, gas storage is over 93% full in Europe now and prices have fallen drastically.

The energy crisis is just accelerating the escape from fossil fuels in the EU (and thus also from the clutches of Russia, Iran, Libya, Saudi Arabia, Venezuela, the US and other malignant players) so it's really quite the blessing in disguise.
 

SRB

Posts: 34   +51
A lot of fearful people here - as for this winter in Europe - if not severe - then enough gas supplies .
More holding tanks will be built as ships currently turning away in future . If cold then yes a problem - I'm sure Europe will find a solution .

Think - all you doomsayers about ICE engines being banned are so silly with your fear .
This is only for new cars - plenty of ICE cars still floating around - they will be more efficient as well ,
Buy a ICE car in 2034 if you are worried - or a second hand one in 2036 - stockpile them if you want.

This is not that big of a deal - yes there will be new battery tech. The power will be there .

It is laugh riot to see all of this from people who only look at their little corner of the view and make absolute proclamations about the future. First, to the EV fans, no worries, you are winning big, for what that's worth. GM and Stellantis are already working on nailing the coffin shut on their gas vehicles. Everyone else is scrambling to cash in on the fact that EVs are expensive and hugely profitable ways to virtue signal to the rich and well to do. And the U.S. policy, as with most of the western world, is shutting down financing and increasing regulations so that long before the deadline, gasoline will be $20.00 a gallon.
So where does that leave us? Electric cars have been experimented with since the 60's, without much success. Batteries went from Ni Cad to Ni MH, to Li Ion in a relatively short time, but have effectively stalled.
Where we wind up is that, for better or worse, the "first" world has kneecapped our energy production with no apparent replacement on the horizon, the wonder battery that will solve all of our transportation problems is nowhere to be seen, and there are two outcomes left at the rate we're going. First, according to the winners, we're going to have to do without everything that energy provides in a futile effort to stave off the end. Mainly because although we're going to fall on our swords, China, Russia, and the rest of the third world will ensure our demise by accelerating their carbon output. Or, the end never comes, and it will take half a century to repair the damage.
 

Vanderlinde

Posts: 211   +132
It's good to remove pollution from cities. Now, my question is: Aren't we merely moving the pollution to power plants where the electricity to feed EVs is generated?

Brake dust is even worse then your daily dosis of Co2. And when they catch fire, you know the battery's, it's toxic as f. They just ban the selling of combusting engines starting at 2030. This does'nt mean you could still buy a 2nd used gasoline car. Or own a oldtimer for that matter.

 

SRB

Posts: 34   +51
Brake dust is even worse then your daily dosis of Co2. And when they catch fire, you know the battery's, it's toxic as f. They just ban the selling of combusting engines starting at 2030. This does'nt mean you could still buy a 2nd used gasoline car. Or own a oldtimer for that matter.

Um, for the record, hybrids and EV's create far less brake dust, than gas powered cars/trucks, and, they'll probably let you buy all the old cars and trucks you'd like to. Good luck finding fuel to run them though. The rest is spot on.
 

kiwigraeme

Posts: 1,399   +1,040
It is laugh riot to see all of this from people who only look at their little corner of the view and make absolute proclamations about the future. First, to the EV fans, no worries, you are winning big, for what that's worth. GM and Stellantis are already working on nailing the coffin shut on their gas vehicles. Everyone else is scrambling to cash in on the fact that EVs are expensive and hugely profitable ways to virtue signal to the rich and well to do. And the U.S. policy, as with most of the western world, is shutting down financing and increasing regulations so that long before the deadline, gasoline will be $20.00 a gallon.
So where does that leave us? Electric cars have been experimented with since the 60's, without much success. Batteries went from Ni Cad to Ni MH, to Li Ion in a relatively short time, but have effectively stalled.
Where we wind up is that, for better or worse, the "first" world has kneecapped our energy production with no apparent replacement on the horizon, the wonder battery that will solve all of our transportation problems is nowhere to be seen, and there are two outcomes left at the rate we're going. First, according to the winners, we're going to have to do without everything that energy provides in a futile effort to stave off the end. Mainly because although we're going to fall on our swords, China, Russia, and the rest of the third world will ensure our demise by accelerating their carbon output. Or, the end never comes, and it will take half a century to repair the damage.

It's definitely not perfect - Electrical vehicles have been around for a 120 years - but got dropped for ICE.
Definitely need ICE for larger vehicles going forward . Passive steps to combat rising CO2 and planting trees not enough . Will need active tech.
In European cities need for car is less and less - small lightweight driverless taxis will come . More people will rent - fast train - then rent .
Here in NZ, Aust , USA and Canada we have vast distances - so will be more interesting
 
Last edited:

AlaskaGuy

Posts: 749   +620
It's definitely not perfect - Electrical vehicles have been around for a 120 years - but got dropped for ICE.
Definitely need ICE for larger vehicles going forward . Passive steps to combat rising CO2 and planting trees not enough . Will need active tech.
In European cities need for car is less and less - small lightweight driverless taxis will come . More people will rent - fast train - then rent .
Here in NZ, Aust , USA and Canada we have vast distances - so will be more interesting
This dingbat is on it.


Jacinda-Ardern.jpg
 

godrilla

Posts: 625   +339
I have seen a meme where the western hemisphere has the unrealistic green goals and Ch!na's goals for the world is to make sure only the western hemisphere achieves those goals get it?
 

scavengerspc

Posts: 2,910   +3,219
TechSpot Elite
This is a no-brainer and easily achievable. BTW, gas storage is over 93% full in Europe now and prices have fallen drastically.
I knew Europe was well-prepared, but I didn't know they were THAT well-prepared, but it's true:

And it should be pointed out that breaking from coal over the years has been a great decision for more reasons than just the obvious. Guess where a huge amount of that coal was coming from:
Now if we could just figure out Germany's anti-nuclear power stance.

The energy crisis is just accelerating the escape from fossil fuels in the EU (and thus also from the clutches of Russia, Iran, Libya, Saudi Arabia, Venezuela, the US and other malignant players) so it's really quite the blessing in disguise.
I, among many others, have talked about that before. While it can be a pain to deal with now, gasoline price increases the world over has increased the desire to break from the smoke juice even more.

Think of that for a second. The oil companies are doing a small part in curbing pollution, And the world's reliance on their own product. 😲 :joy:
 
Last edited:

kiwigraeme

Posts: 1,399   +1,040

Uncle Al

Posts: 9,363   +8,581
Since some 75% of EV owners drive shorter miles and charge their vehicles at home, it would seem the EV makers would have some kind of add-on solar panel for the home as a "promotion" that rendered the EV nearly zero cost (except for maintenance).