European Union will ban new gas-powered car sales by 2035

[scavengerspc]

I knew "high insurance" was a ridiculous argument, and I knew the "high repair costs" argument was bogus (setting aside Teslas, the parts are inexpensive and reliable; I thought the batteries were more expensive but due to good battery management software they've proven to be long-lasting.)

Yeah, even older Teslas can be looking at 300-500k miles.

How Long Does a Tesla Battery Last?

Range anxiety is one of the main concerns for potential electric car buyers. But the technology used in electric vehicles has improved by leaps and bounds since the introduction of the first EV. Tesla has been at the forefront of this development, with most of its models having 300-400 miles of...

ev-lectron.com

I didn't realize the grid was in that good of shape, and hadn't realized the battery costs had come down that much though. Good to know!

The problem here was we produce a huge amount of electricity, but high reserves could not be shared. But we are working on that now with grid interconnects.

Even the Model 3 batteries are $6k now.

 

[Robbie K]

The bottom line is our very existence is the problem. EU, and the green ones can try all they want. The reality is more than half the worlds population will never go green. They are just trying survive.

 

[hwertz]

Just as an FYI of what I mean by "good battery management" (I know you probably know this scavengerspc, but for others...). My parents have a Kia Niro (hybrid, not EV), on there it simply quits agressively charging the battery above about 75-80% charge, and quits agressively pulling power out below about 20-25% charge. It also has a temperature sensor and a little fan to keep it from getting too hot, although with the electric motor on there only being 40HP (and the battery being under the rear seat in the air-conditioned cabin) I don't know if that ever kicks in. On a full electric vehicle this would be similar, it'll charge the last 10 or 20% more slowly; and you shouldn't run your range down to 0 (just like on a gas car, where you may damage the fuel pump, or suck up any dirt or water that's settled to the bottom of the tank, if you run the tank dry.)

 

[Puiu]

Why are people getting so worked up about something that is over a decade in the future? In my opinion 12 years is way actually too long, they should have made it 2030 or 2023.

It's clear that gasoline engines are going away soon. This is something that can't be stopped anymore. Electrical and hydrogen engines will eventually replace them.

 

[Puiu]

The bottom line is our very existence is the problem. EU, and the green ones can try all they want. The reality is more than half the worlds population will never go green. They are just trying survive.

Nobody is expecting everybody to go green in a decade or two. The second hand market will continue to exist and new gas engine cars will continue to be sold until stocks run out. But cars built after that date will have to follow new pollution regulations, which is a good thing.

It will take another decade or so after 2035 for the existing cars to start being replaced in large enough numbers. By then the technology and infrastructure should be very mature.

 

[zulu53]

Even if you’re not a fan of the “face” of the current green movement (I personally think it is irrelevant), literally every credible scientist world-wide supports the concept of man made climate change and the serious repercussions it’s going to have on us. I don't really get where you've got the idea it's some sort of cult from?

No, not true. There are major groups of applied scientists that do not support the conclusion of academic scientists that climate change is man-made. You need to understand a truism of modern society - the best and the brightest scientists leave acadamia for the real world as soon as they get their Bachelor level degree and become applied scientists where the pay and challanges are much more in keeping with their intellegence. What is reported in the media is what acadamia is saying (trying to justify their existence); the least intelligent of the graduates. Put it this way - I have not read an academic study that I could not poke holes in.

 

[zulu53]

This comes in the category of "what are they thinking? - Not". Doing the energy balance shows that their is no point to stopping non-electric car production in 10 years; if we were to try and produce electicity to the level of even the present car population we drive its cost per energy unit to higher than petrol/diesel even with the huge benefit of electric cars in forcing people to drive less and fly more (that range statistic). All that you are doing is saying that the car manufactures must shrink their business by 50%-70% - given the reliability of even the normal cars of today their will not be enough money in supplying repair parts for them to survive. But there will be that large production bump in the last 2 years where everyone will be stocking up with vehicles that they can keep for the next 10-20 years. After that may as well shutter the business and drive up the unemployment rate. Their next Law" will be that only rich people and government employees will be allowed a personal vehicle (electric). Everyone else (80% of us) will walk/bike or use mass transit. Talk about revolutionary times.

 

[Gastec]

The article you posted was by a person with a masters in the study of ground water. The improvments in battery tech hasn't been significant enough to replace every car with electric any time soon. Tesla still charges between $13k and $15k for a battery replacement. Comparing EVs from 2010 to 2023 doesn't make any sense since EVs were a niche product then. If the savings aren't passed to the consumers do they really matter?

If all cars in the EU go electric where is that extra power going to come from? There isn't enough power generation capacity to charge nearly every car at the same time which will happen when everyone gets home and puts their car on its charger all around the same time. Filling up a battery might end up being just as expensive as petroleum-based fuels since increased demand will raise prices if supply is limited.

The extra power (nr. needed to charge all those tens of millions of future EV cars in the EU) will come from all those extra coal mines and extra nuclear power-plants that they've closed over the years and from extra photovoltaic arrays that will cover the areas previously covered by forests and pastures, as cows and sheep, being the extra pollutants that they shamefully are, will be banned.

 

[Gastec]

Why are people getting so worked up about something that is over a decade in the future? In my opinion 12 years is way actually too long, they should have made it 2030 or 2023.

It's clear that gasoline engines are going away soon. This is something that can't be stopped anymore. Electrical and hydrogen engines will eventually replace them.

That is what I used to think in 2005, when I was young and hopeful, when my father bought his Peugeot 307 SW 1.9 diesel. He said that it will be his last car and I laughed at that preposterous idea, as he was years from retirement. 18 years later my father has been dead for almost two years and that diesel car has passed down to me, for me to pay all of its taxes and expensive repairs. 12 years is nothing, it's only a long time for obsessive-compulsive smartphone (TFL-isti) consumers.

 

[Gastec]

Seriously? Shell and Exxon were modelling the long term damaging impact of CO2 emissions on the global climate back in the 80s (scans of their original documents are readily available if you'd like to read them yourself) long before the current popular green movement, or "climate cult" as you like to call it. We can debate the specifics of impact and necessary level of response, but denying climate change at this point is equivalent to being a flat earther.

I'd like to think that we are all technical people here, that are sometimes trying to have a lulz after a hard day's work. I have to admit it though, it's getting harder and harder to penetrate the progressive, cultist unitedstatians, and their overseas kissassers, with sarcasm and irony.

 

[TempleOrion]

Right, by stating "3000 farms" your earlier dumb take on a complex issue is now suddenly good? If you want to hate on the Netherlands, there are better points to focus on.

Don't bother arguing with the guy, he's off his rocker; a clown just like his orange 'Savior' LMAO ;-)

 

[Puiu]

No, not true. There are major groups of applied scientists that do not support the conclusion of academic scientists that climate change is man-made. You need to understand a truism of modern society - the best and the brightest scientists leave acadamia for the real world as soon as they get their Bachelor level degree and become applied scientists where the pay and challanges are much more in keeping with their intellegence. What is reported in the media is what acadamia is saying (trying to justify their existence); the least intelligent of the graduates. Put it this way - I have not read an academic study that I could not poke holes in.

"There are major groups of applied scientists that do not support the conclusion of academic scientists that climate change is man-made."

No there aren't.

 

[wiyosaya]

Typical. I wasn't just talking about CO2 when mining for lithium. Last I checked, the environment isn't only affected by CO2. Not mined in my country, not my problem, right?

My call out was that it's not nearly as green as activists and bandwaggoners like you would like to pretend. Especially when the grids can't handle current expectations without "dirty" energy.

Such hard rules should be made when the tech and infrastructure is better able to handle such impractical expectations, not on promises and fairies and unmaterialized battery tech and rainbows lol

So, try again. You obviously didn't understand the assignment.

I understand that the argument is BS, and it has nothing to do with country.

 

[wiyosaya]

Part of the Climate Cult eh.

And now a word from our EU middle school drop-out Climate Cult spokesperson fresh from her latest gig at Davos.

Typical RW reply. When you've lost the argument, bash people who cite valid scientists and the scientists themselves.

 

[wiyosaya]

That sucks, but the skyrocketing cost here are entirely linked to natural gas prices at the moment, as the Russian invasion of Ukraine and associated political fallout has screwed the energy market. Even though UK wasn't depending on Russian gas, other countries had been and that pushed the cost of gas supplied by other sources up. Coincidentally Shell made record profits...

The skyrocketing costs are an easy target for the ignorant.

 

[m4a4]

I understand that the argument is BS, and it has nothing to do with country.

Nice avoidance, instead of dooing a proper response.

 

[wiyosaya]

I love articles like this. They bring out the Fox "news" fans among the Techspot crowd.

Just on this 2nd page are some of the most outdated, misinformed, or down right ignorant comments one can find on the subject. For God’s sake, even the Hannity forum posters are more informed than these people.

Higher insurance costs? (That's what happens when every study compares costs to insure a $100k+ Tesla to writer's 4-year-old Corolla) Insurance for my 2017 Focus EV is a third of the cost of my 2019 CTS-V. A member of my staffs insurance dropped 45% when she went from a Model S to a MACH-E.

Higher maintenance costs? The biggest lie than any other myth. As an example, see my post above.

The power grid will not be ready in 12 years? Even though the US grid could handle 85% EV saturation now?

Battery price is ridiculous? It's true, a battery for a high-end Tesla is around $15k. It's also true, a battery for my Focus is now under $2k. Ford already sells a MACH-E motor for under $4k. It's also for EV conversion projects. Again, see my post above to see what it can cost for a 4 year old 911S engine.

In my opinion, ignorance of the facts is weak, but not a big deal.
Willful ignorance goes well beyond weak. Especially when the facts are so easy to find.

Fake Fox news claims are even more relevant now. https://www.businessinsider.com/fox...iracy-theories-false-messages-dominion-2023-2