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FDA: If youth e-cigarette use doesn't decline, it will be banned

By mongeese · 158 replies
Jan 20, 2019
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  1. James00007

    James00007 TS Booster Posts: 116   +13

    Have all vaping products been targeted to the uninformed and young? No (the vast majority aren't). Should there be regulation to punish parts of the vaping industry to stop targeting to kids? Yes. Adult vapers and the majority of the industry don't want youth vaping can you grasp that?

    You underestimate the power of money, how much Big Pharma has, what it spends it on and why. I have linked to multiple "doctors and scientist" throughout this thread that haven't had their research bought. The difference it can be shown where all of the ban vaping and research towards that goal has been influenced and bought.

    The vaping industry is not the tobacco industry and if you knew anything about it whatsoever or read any of my other posts which covered this very issue you would know this. I already mentioned that the Royal College of Physicians were the first to speak out on the dangers or smoking, these are the worlds best medical experts who say vaping is 95% less dangerous.

    It's based on proof, fact and science rather than some kind of puritan, prohibition ideology that can't be backed up or bought by the corruption of Big Pharma.
    Big Pharma make nicotine gums, patches and dangerous anti smoking drugs (they want to give those drugs to these kids). They also make the drugs that treat the terminal illness created by smoking. They don't like vaping because its cutting into profits.

    These are the reasons that a project funded by Big Pharma like the one you linked to, along with the overblown and exaggerated kids vaping rhetoric is so flawed and corrupt. Big Pharma money reaches parts of government, experts and doctors.

    The US Food and Drug Administration is considering the role of drug therapies to get kids to quit vapes and other nicotine products. These are the side effects of the drugs they want to give to kids:

    - constipation
    - diarrhea
    - difficulty concentrating
    - dizziness
    - flatulence (passing gas)
    - headache
    - nausea
    - sleep disturbance (difficulty sleeping or abnormal dreams)
    - unusual tiredness or weakness
    - vomiting
    - signs of mental changes (e.g., changes in behaviour, changes in mood, hallucinations, thinking about harming self or others)
    -signs of depression (e.g., poor concentration, changes in weight, changes in sleep, decreased interest in activities, thoughts of suicide)
    - seizures
    - signs of heart attack (e.g., sudden chest pain or pain radiating to back, down arm, jaw; sensation of tightness or pressure of the chest; nausea; vomiting; sweating; anxiety)
    - signs of a severe skin reaction such as blistering, peeling, a rash covering a large area of the body, a rash that spreads quickly, or a rash combined with fever or discomfort
    - signs of stroke (e.g., sudden or severe headache; sudden loss of coordination; vision changes; sudden slurring of speech; or unexplained weakness, numbness, or pain in arm or leg)
    -symptoms of a serious allergic reaction (e.g., puffy, swollen eyelids, lips, tongue, throat, hands or feet; hives; shortness of breath; or a severe skin rash with peeling and blistering, possibly with headache, fever, coughing, or pain)

    I invite you read my other posts and investigate the credibility of the experts, doctors and medical professionals (many of which have worked in tobacco harm reduction for decades).

    Keep dreaming that the millions of smokers out there will have good health by people like you discouraging them from switching from a product that will kill them, to one that when used as intended won't kill anyone.

    Using nicotine is only harmful (to the point of concern) when used in a delivery method that is harmful (smoking). Any unreasonable restriction, outspoken view/media, law/rule making or "evidence" against proven, drastically safer alternatives (including vaping/e-cigarettes) based on ignorance, misguided ideology, prohibition/puritanism or financial interest/influence is damaging to public health.
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2019
  2. cliffordcooley

    cliffordcooley TS Guardian Fighter Posts: 11,393   +5,019

    Hypocrites doing something they don't want the youth doing. It only cements conviction in youth to try as soon as possible. The only way to prevent youth from doing something is with everyone saying no. Clearly with people like yourself that will never happen.

    I can visually see you pedaling vaping at the nearest convenient store. "Try vaping! All these doctors have proven it is safe." Do you also march in front of all the tobacco stores protesting the use of tobacco, while promoting vaping? I can promise you. If I did, I would be protesting both tobacco and vaping. You are vigilantly attacking every non-smoker pushing your thoughts on this. Yet we will likely be the ones silenced, when we grow tired of hearing your non-sense.
    pit1209 likes this.
  3. James00007

    James00007 TS Booster Posts: 116   +13

    So in your view there is nothing that adults should have access to that youth shouldn't? That view is not only non-sense, it is bordering on insanity and nobody with the most basic understanding of the modern society would agree with that.

    I would "pedal" (or to use a more reasonable term promote) the fact of vaping being 95%+ safer to smoking to every smoker on the planet in any way possible. The best, unbiased doctors in the world have scientifically proven this fact, as mentioned on multiple occasions. These smokers are real human lives who have as much right as you to life and access to anything that could prolong it.

    Firstly lets make this clear: Smoking is not going to banned, you can want it to be banned, you can protest for it to be banned, you can think or say whatever you want about the banning of smoking but the fact is that it will not be banned. I can go into pages of detail of why it won't be banned but if you can't grasp the fact that it won't be banned (or find out for yourself by reading about Master Settlement Agreement (MSA) or watching A Billion Lives a documentary film on this issue) then you are rejecting reality and have a fundamental lack of understanding and unwillingness to educate on the matter of this article.

    So if we accept reality and smoking can't/won't be banned then to say something that's safer should be banned/restricted more than smoking because we can ban that, then now you are actually promoting harm to smokers health, public health, human health. A hypocrite would take this view and say things such as:

    I do not protest the use of tobacco because, unlike you I believe in the right for adults to make decisions based on their own health. I believe in the responsibility of parents, schools and enforcement of laws to manage youth access to adult products, like with every other adult product. I also believe that adults should have access to certain things that youth shouldn't.

    There is no attack against anyone from my side, I responded to every misinformed statement explaining why is it wrong. You are welcome to stop making these sensational delirious replies at any point. "we grow tired of hearing your non-sense." We as in you speak for more than yourself? You wan't this shut down because your zealot, prohibition, puritanical and frankly often insulting views and personal attacks (backed up by nothing) have been challenged by someone who has real knowledge on this subject, extensively researched and followed this for many years and backed everything up with evidence. The only way for you to save face in being proven wrong on multiple levels is to return with an argument more outlandish and manic than the last, demand censorship and deny a right to reply. This drew to a close many posts ago but the continued publication of farce and misinformation should be corrected.
    Last edited: Jan 29, 2019
  4. gollum21

    gollum21 TS Enthusiast Posts: 41   +14

    Well, I certainly don't agree with minors using any form of nicotine. Even though many minors will inevitably try things legal or not. And I do think more can be done to stop minors from vaping. It still pales in comparison to the rest of what's in actual cigarettes though. Teens will get their hands on whatever is in the path of least resistance. In order to make it more difficult for teens to have access to vaping we must make sure it's always even more difficult for them to get their hands on real cigarettes.
    Last edited: Jan 29, 2019
    James00007 likes this.
  5. cliffordcooley

    cliffordcooley TS Guardian Fighter Posts: 11,393   +5,019

    No matter how you look at it. This will never make sense.

    We are going to bury treasure A. So you will have more trouble getting your hands on treasure B.
  6. James00007

    James00007 TS Booster Posts: 116   +13

    "You should fight for your lives and your health. It is absolutely irresponsible and dangerous behaviour to ban e-cigarettes."
    - Dr K Farsalinos

    "If, on a population scale, smokers switched from cigarettes to e-cigarettes, there will be an enormous public health benefit."
    - Prof P Hajek

    Last edited: Jan 29, 2019
  7. captaincranky

    captaincranky TechSpot Addict Posts: 14,969   +4,002

    Do you ever come up for air?
  8. captaincranky

    captaincranky TechSpot Addict Posts: 14,969   +4,002

    Another worthless post stating the obvious,.

    I live in PA, you already need ID to buy either cigarettes or e-cigarettes. (Vaping supplies, call it what you will.

    "In 2002, Pennsylvania's Act 112 amended Section 6305 of the Crimes Code and created new fines for clerks and owners of tobacco retail stores. The Act: Prohibits sales of tobacco products to a minor (individual under 18 years of age). Prohibits the furnishing of a tobacco product to a minor (selling tobacco to a minor)."

    Couple facts: It's still a waste of money, and it's still a trash high. A week after you're hooked on nicotine, you can't feel anything other than withdrawal pangs when you're deprived of it.

    E-cigarettes are not considered a tobacco product under the Youth Access to Tobacco Law in Pennsylvania, however, >>federal law<< prohibits the sale of tobacco products, including e-cigarettes, to people under age 18.Feb 26, 2018

    Last edited: Jan 29, 2019
  9. James00007

    James00007 TS Booster Posts: 116   +13


    Yes it's already illegal to sell to youth I mentioned that 3 pages ago, this law isn't being enforced properly by the FDA.

    But we can call for an outright ban on a product that will save life but not say with alcohol, smoking, 18+ rated media and I'm sure you can come up with hundreds of other things that adults enjoy the freedom of of access to (all of which teens also access when they are not permitted by law)

    Your experience of "withdrawal pangs when you're deprived of it" is your experience with smoking. Can you separate nicotine from smoking?

    On nicotine's potential for dependence
    "It seems very safe even in nonsmokers," he said. "In our studies we find it actually reduces blood pressure chronically. And there were no addiction or withdrawal problems, and nobody started smoking cigarettes. The risk of addiction to nicotine alone is virtually nil."
    - Dr. Paul Newhouse
    Director, Vanderbilt University Center for Cognitive Medicine
    April 16, 2014
    https://medschool.vanderbilt.edu/ccm/files/ccm/SFN 2012 Poster MCI- Kamkwalala.pdf
    https://medschool.vanderbilt.edu/ccm/files/ccm/SFN 2012 Poster MCI3- Newhouse Chronic.pdf

    "There is very little to no evidence for the abuse of nicotine when not delivered in a tobacco vehicle."
    - Prof K Fagerstrom

    "Studies have shown that none of the nicotine replacement therapies - chewing gum, inhalers, patches - none of those are addictive. Nicotine is not addictive. The cause of addiction is the release of monoamine oxidase inhibitors, or MAOIs, along with nicotine."
    - Prof Peter Killeen
    Emeritus Professor of Psychology, ASU

    "The changes that FDA is allowing to these labels reflect the fact that although any nicotine-containing product is potentially addictive, decades of research and use have shown that NRT products sold OTC do not appear to have significant potential for abuse or dependence."
    • US FDA <<<<
    Nicotine Replacement Therapy Labels May Change
    To clarify: the FDA are stating that pure nicotine does not create dependence, although this is slightly obscured.

    On ethics
    "In the case of cigarettes and e-cigarettes, history will judge us harshly as to how we answer this billion-person question. It may also look back in anger at policy-making amounting to institutionalized manslaughter."
    - Prof Julian Kinderlerer
    President of the European Group on Ethics in Science and New Technologies (EGE)

    Trash high and it being a waste of money is not a fact, it is an opinion, along with the idea of being "high" and getting "high" is something to be strived for. You can repeat trash high as much as you want, it's as completely irrelevant now, as to when you first mentioned it.

    I don't see how you can call anyone's post worthless when pretty much your only point has been that nicotine doesn't get you high enough.

    Do you ever stop getting high?
    Last edited: Jan 29, 2019
  10. cliffordcooley

    cliffordcooley TS Guardian Fighter Posts: 11,393   +5,019

    Not without his eCig!
  11. James00007

    James00007 TS Booster Posts: 116   +13

    Yes I'm vaping right now actually lemon tart flavor 3mg nicotine in Rebirth RDA and Dreamer mechanical mod, thanks for the interest. It's not something the youth would buy because it's not like the pen drives style one they sneak around with, but would get banned just the same.
    Last edited: Jan 29, 2019
  12. captaincranky

    captaincranky TechSpot Addict Posts: 14,969   +4,002

    Blah, blah, blah.

    Actually, I just got done watching a Nightwish DVD, "Showtime, Storytime", which started to make me high.

    Then, I got myself off even more with Friendly's caramel swirl ice cream.

    Next I'm into one of my favorite drugs, the 12 string guitar.

    After my fingers get tired, I may treat myself to some erotic art, then dope myself into submission with blueberry pie, and chocolate milk. (The good stuff, made with Hershey's "Special Dark", not the too sweet milk chocolate variety).

    After I'm done with all that, I should be buzzing my brains out, and regrettably, won't have time for the truly important things in life, like huffing on an e-cigarette
    Last edited: Jan 29, 2019
    cliffordcooley likes this.
  13. James00007

    James00007 TS Booster Posts: 116   +13

    Sounds great till the FDA come after your sugar. Trash high though that sugar and the withdrawal pangs when you're deprived of it
    Last edited: Jan 29, 2019
  14. captaincranky

    captaincranky TechSpot Addict Posts: 14,969   +4,002

    There's about as much chance of that, as you being elected president.

    With the way you run on about nicotine and vaping, I'm really surprised you went with the hokey pseudo Bondian "James00007" as your alias, and not, "Der VaporMeister".

    You were running on earlier about how, "I only came here to argue with everyone", and yet you've argued with, and most likely alienated, everyone with which you've come into contact.

    Yet there exists the possibility you may have generated, and made your own, an entirely new, (albeit derivative), pejorative term.

    That would be a, "SNW", (social nicotine warrior), or maybe a, "SVW", (social vaping warrior).

    From Wiki:

    Social justice warrior (SJW) is a pejorative term for an individual who promotes socially progressive views, including feminism, civil rights, and multiculturalism,[1][2] as well as identity politics.[3] The accusation that somebody is an SJW carries implications that they are pursuing personal validation rather than any deep-seated conviction,[4] and engaging in disingenuous arguments.[5]
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2019
  15. captaincranky

    captaincranky TechSpot Addict Posts: 14,969   +4,002

    BTW James, since you've rather obviously learned nothing from biology class, allow me to enlighten you:

    There are two types of carbohydrates, fast burning, (such as refined sugar), and slow burning, (such as rice and potatoes), both are usable as energy by the human body.

    Nicotine has no function in human sustenance whatsoever. (Even the lemon flavored crap).
  16. cliffordcooley

    cliffordcooley TS Guardian Fighter Posts: 11,393   +5,019

    That would be a good custom title for him, certainly better than "TS Enthusiast".
    captaincranky likes this.
  17. captaincranky

    captaincranky TechSpot Addict Posts: 14,969   +4,002

    Cliff, my vote goes for "Banned" as his new title.> :rolleyes:
  18. cliffordcooley

    cliffordcooley TS Guardian Fighter Posts: 11,393   +5,019

    Well as much as I would like to vote the same. I don't believe he has earned that level of severity. I've probably earned that title more so than he has.

    If only we could put a stop to the influence of contaminating ourselves.
  19. James00007

    James00007 TS Booster Posts: 116   +13

    Thanks for the title and display name recommendations but no it's deep-seated conviction. The difference is, I believe you have a right to your view and freedom of expression, right to reply, freedom of speech, no matter how nonsensical it is, and would never feel threatened enough to resort in calling for your silence (method "Social Justice Warrior's" often use). Shall we bring this back on topic rather than resort to personal insults, bullying tactics and calling for bans based on superiority complex:

    No Gateway | UK Study Disarms Youth Vaping to Smoking Myth
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2019
  20. cliffordcooley

    cliffordcooley TS Guardian Fighter Posts: 11,393   +5,019

    If only we lived in a land where everyone was free. We are not free. We do have laws that govern us. Many of which are two faced laws preventing juveniles from participating in what is deemed an adult activity. Yet no one seems to be intelligent enough to see that alone influences minors. I don't really care what people do. I just want the two faced crap to go away. I see no reason why youth can't participate, if the adults are going to be too proud to let it go. I am just as strong as you are with this topic when it comes to equality for all.
  21. captaincranky

    captaincranky TechSpot Addict Posts: 14,969   +4,002

    Gee, just one paragraph and a video? I must be losing my touch at triggering you.

    Here's the thing. You've gone on pointlessly for the better part of six pages. I say, since you have so much of a vested interest in the prevention of a vaping ban, instead of endlessly running your yap here where it will do absolutely no good, you should be picketing in front of congress. After all, that's where laws are made, not here.

    Not to mention everything that comes out of your mouth, makes less sense than your previous post.

    "Refined sugar habit", sure, I'm guilty. Isn't, "comfort food", part of today's vernacular? It's still a body fuel, nicotine isn't. And no matter how much you rant and rave, you can't talk it up as a member of the food pyramid.

    I have sociopathic tendencies. Which means, I don't care about you, what you think, need, or stuff up your nose, or backside. I don't care, and would be completely unaffected if you didn't wake up tomorrow. In a sequitur fashion, I don't care if you smoke, drink, or take a bath in vaping fluid. Nor will I ever.

    You're wasting all you're energy here, instead of exercising the strength of your iron clad, cast in stone principles, either trying to convince someone, or shamelessly beg someone who matters, to, "pretty, pretty, please, don't take my vaping fluid away."

    Your only purpose in this thread, is to inflict your opinion, your values, and your needs on the rest of us. Particularly the "social injustice" which would befall you, should vaping be banned. If that isn't the very definition of, "social justice warrior", I have no idea what would be.

    You have this whole argument wrapped up in the fact that 400.000 people a year will die of smoking. Do you really care about them? The world has an overabundance of the species Homo sapiens, and trust me, without a doubt, there will be plenty more where they come from.

    So, are those lost specimens really you're concern, or are they just a convenient platform from which to launch your rhetoric about vaping?

    Because, here again, you've completely fulfilled the pejorative definition of, "social justice warrior".
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2019
  22. James00007

    James00007 TS Booster Posts: 116   +13

    LOST LIBERTY | FDA Buckles Under Anti-Vaping Pressure

    "In a free society, the burden should be on those who wish to take away liberty to make the case that the liberty to be taken away, is so damaging that there is a case for taking it away. The burden should not be on the people who want to protect liberty to prove that liberty is worth keeping."

    "FDA sneaking in the assumption that the effects of allowing vaping to be free, will be worse than the effects of banning vaping and there is no scientific reason to make that assumption, it is a logical fallacy to do so."

    "Was wondering how many vape free kids it would take for the FDA to let millions of adults die from smoking related disease? Is it 10 dead adults per teen? 100?"
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2019
  23. captaincranky

    captaincranky TechSpot Addict Posts: 14,969   +4,002

    Then quite frankly, this current crop of "adults", should set an example for the future, and never undertake stopping anyone from doing something, by using the mandate, "do as I say, not as I do.

    Now show your sincerity, by preventing porn stars, people who've undergone sex changes, contract killers, drug dealers, and so forth, from ever uttering the same hypocrisy.

    And that Mr. Cooley would be, "liberty and justice for all".
    cliffordcooley likes this.
  24. captaincranky

    captaincranky TechSpot Addict Posts: 14,969   +4,002

    So, go picket at the Capitol.

    You're simply not going to gain any traction here, endlessly running your mouth, posting links, and jabbering on about how you think things should be. In fact, you're wasting your time, as well as ours.

    Get this through your head, I simply don't care how many people die from cigarettes.

    Tobacco and alcohol are the two commodities universally "sin taxed", worldwide. So, at least in part, tobacco and alcohol are propping up governments, worldwide.

    And BTW, about that chocolate milk and blueberry pie I'll be having later I'm not in the least bit lactose intolerant, the chocolate syrup I use in my milk is only semi-sweet, blueberries contain anti-oxidants, pie crust is made from slow burning starch carbs, and the only refined sugar in the mix, is enough to sweeten the pie filling.

    Have you ever milk called, "nature's most perfect food"? I certainly have, and it's a whole lot better for you than tobacco, beer, or vaping fluid.
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2019
  25. James00007

    James00007 TS Booster Posts: 116   +13

    E-Cigarettes: An Evidence Update --- Dr Lynne Dawkins
    Published on 15 Jan 2019

    A myth-busting lecture on e-cigarettes addressing common concerns and misperceptions about vaping.

    Dr Lynne Dawkins of the Centre for Addictive Behaviours Research, London South Bank University (LSBU) re-visits the subject of e-cigarettes

    "Vaping is much less addictive than smoking"
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2019

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