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FDA: If youth e-cigarette use doesn't decline, it will be banned

By mongeese · 158 replies
Jan 20, 2019
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  1. cliffordcooley

    cliffordcooley TS Guardian Fighter Posts: 11,355   +4,991

    Pointless comment because vaping is associated with smoking regardless.
     
  2. pit1209

    pit1209 TS Booster Posts: 45   +51

    So your experience is now the standard in health research, that's comforting. I remember a quote from The Dark Tower: “A man who can't bear to share his habits is a man who needs to quit them.” That's the only thing that comes to my mind as the reason why you have been so fierceful defending vaping unless you have some kind of monetary investment with the business. To think that the "vaping" of nicotine is not harmful is like when lead was in almost everything society produced back in the day while thousands were being poisoned and companies looked the other way until it was too late.
     
  3. James00007

    James00007 TS Booster Posts: 116   +13

    They aren't enforcing the current rules. Adults like candy flavors and are entitled to buy them and should always be. Kids are not entitled to buy them, vaping is not allowed to be sold to under 18's and the penalties for doing so should be severe. The FDA are not enforcing current rules on selling to underage or on bad marketing practice that's why there is a problem. More regulations and threats towards vaping that can't be enforced won't help when they can't cope with the current ones.

    You are talking about a sub section of the vaping industry that is not playing by the rules. The ones that are should not thrown under the bus because of bad actors.
     
  4. James00007

    James00007 TS Booster Posts: 116   +13

    Lucky there is no combustion with vaping then. Being a medical doctor I would expect you would know this fact.

    Heart Surgeon Says VAPING Is SAFER | Unpacking Public Health
     
  5. James00007

    James00007 TS Booster Posts: 116   +13

    "Nicotine does not cause heart disease or cancer."
    - Dr K Farsalinos
    Consultant cardiologist
    http://saveecigs.wordpress.com/2013...sed-on-ideology-and-theories-but-not-science/

    "Addiction to nicotine has never caused harm to the user or to bystanders. That is why NRT products are now recommended by the FDA and the MHRA as long-term substitutes for smoking."
    - Dr K Farsalinos

    Prof P Hajek - QMUL video on ecigs:


    "Compared to a range of dangerous non-nicotine chemicals in tobacco smoke, nicotine is relatively harmless, except in pregnancy and in some rare conditions."
    - Prof Hajek

    Nicotine is not associated with cancer or heart disease.
    NICE, PH45
    NICE is the clinical guidance authority for all UK medical practitioners

    "Nicotine is not the major cause of any disease associated with smoking; it’s comparable to caffeine, which is highly addictive but safely consumed in coffee, tea and cola."
    - Prof B Rodu
    Professor of Medicine, oral pathology specialist
    2014-01-18
    http://www.courier-journal.com/article/20140119/OPINION04/301190020
     
  6. James00007

    James00007 TS Booster Posts: 116   +13

    This article is about vaping (e-cigarettes) a 95%+ safer alternative to smoking that has the potential to safe and prolong the life of millions of people and is under threat from all fronts, big pharma, big tobacco, financially motivated interests, big government and most of all public lack of understanding.
     
  7. James00007

    James00007 TS Booster Posts: 116   +13

    Vaping is an ALTERNATIVE not a derivative.
    Various studies support the idea that a low dose nicotine can improve long and short-term memory through its effect on nicotine acetylcholine receptors. Since nicotine improves memory and cognition, it has been extensively studied in diseases characterized by neurodegeneration and the worsening of mental functions.
     
  8. James00007

    James00007 TS Booster Posts: 116   +13

    Because the 10 times they have exploded (usually through misuse) out of the billions of products out there is a real concern? Unlike the thousands of batteries exploding in practically every other appliance that takes a battery (Samsung anyone?).
     
  9. James00007

    James00007 TS Booster Posts: 116   +13

    nearly 7 years high volume vaping and my chest never hurt. Vaping is a close to harmless as you will get. Using vaping to quit smoking them recommending against it is disingenuous.
     
  10. James00007

    James00007 TS Booster Posts: 116   +13

    A tool to help adults quit smoking is like giving a kid a knife? Can't be taken "Seriously".
     
  11. James00007

    James00007 TS Booster Posts: 116   +13

    Lets say it takes 25 years for smoking related illness to creep up. It's actually more like 35 to 50. Then lets take something that's 95%+ safer (fact). Do the math.
     
  12. James00007

    James00007 TS Booster Posts: 116   +13

     
  13. James00007

    James00007 TS Booster Posts: 116   +13

    Science has progressed a lot since the revelation of the harms of smoking which was first revealed by the Royal College of Physicians (the same organisation that say vaping is 95%+ safer than smoking).
     
  14. James00007

    James00007 TS Booster Posts: 116   +13

    Ask yourself if its ethical if you are wrong (which you are in many of the things you have said), for you to be sharing your ignorant views based on no fact. When it could cause someone to stop switching to a product that could save their life.

    "Switching is so close as good as quitting that from a health point of view there is no point in worrying about the difference."
    - Dr C Phillips
     
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2019
  15. cliffordcooley

    cliffordcooley TS Guardian Fighter Posts: 11,355   +4,991

    @James00007 - We get it! You are promoting a health damaging product. No matter what you say, it will not change the truth. Doctors have promoted hundreds of products through the years. And decades later banned from being used. There have even been lawsuits over the products that were previously promoted by doctors killing people. I don't have time to hear your Doctor's opinion that very well could be just as wrong.
    It is you that "Can't be taken "Seriously" "
     
    pit1209 likes this.
  16. James00007

    James00007 TS Booster Posts: 116   +13

    I have shown multiple sources of real Medical professionals to back up everything I have said. You aren't interested in facts.
     
  17. cliffordcooley

    cliffordcooley TS Guardian Fighter Posts: 11,355   +4,991

    Sorry I was editing my comment that addresses that question.
     
  18. James00007

    James00007 TS Booster Posts: 116   +13

    Show me evidence that that supports your case that isn't exaggerated to support an agenda or based on an emotive response and I'll take you seriously. You have shown an unwillingness to be proven wrong and an unwillingness to partake in any point of view that doesn't fit your own belief. I have researched this for years. If you question the sources I have used then you are welcome to investigate their credibility. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_College_of_Physicians
    The most prestigious medical organisation in the world. Like I said they were the first to report on the dangers of smoking.
    https://www.rcplondon.ac.uk/projects/outputs/nicotine-without-smoke-tobacco-harm-reduction-0
    You are also welcome to investigate the credibility of the other Doctors and Medical professionals I have cited. I would also be quite willing to show how a lot of the negative articles and media you have based your view upon have been funded by big pharma (vested interest), especially the views from the World Health Organisation and many charities such as the Campaign for Tobacco Free kids which itself has promoted vaping to under age more than any part of the vaping industry.
     
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2019
  19. James00007

    James00007 TS Booster Posts: 116   +13

  20. captaincranky

    captaincranky TechSpot Addict Posts: 14,914   +3,977

    Well @James00007 , I think at this point we get it, you're hopelessly hooked, and you'll go to any lengths to defend your "right" to use nicotine in any form, particularly "vaping".

    I'm an ex smoker who didn't turn to vaping as a crutch or pastime. I'm simply a cheapskate, and I won't pay that kind of money for the worthless, trash high, that comes with nicotine consumption.

    In fact, I smoke a few cigarettes a year, generally no more often than 5 or six months apart. It's a lot of fun. The smoke, and with it the nicotine high, goes straight to your head. The trouble is, that with nicotine the addiction curve escalates so rapidly, the state change it induces, is unnoticeable while you're on it, and the withdrawal pangs when you're off it, create violent mood swings and intense cravings.

    So, defend it all you want. I'll grant you that vaping is certainly nowhere near as harmful as cigarettes, but IMO, it's not worth taking up, if you've never smoked in the first place. As for former smokers, it's just a crutch, and a trash high to boot.

    And I'd be willing to bet, the young people who take up vaping, are doing it for the same stupid reasons they started smoking in years past, peer pressure, and social acceptance.
     
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2019
    pit1209 and cliffordcooley like this.
  21. James00007

    James00007 TS Booster Posts: 116   +13

    You talk about nicotine like its crack and people that use it are like crack addicts, its closer to caffeine in terms of effect and in terms of harm when used in vaping. People that don't smoke or vape should not take up either. Under 18's should not be taking up either and there are laws currently in place to stop that, and laws against certain types of marketing which are not being enforced by the FDA.

    Vaping is not harmless but it is orders of magnitude safer than smoking and that's the key. What they don't talk about when they mention kids vaping is that smoking rates for youth are at an all time low, the FDA try to take credit but that's down to vaping. These are the youth that try things, not just vaping but everything else they shouldn't be doing. They find ways to get it no matter how extreme these regulations are. The answer is not to ban and restrict everything to the point where it will effect the freedom of choice and effectiveness for adults to have access to life saving vaping products.

    Myself and any other adult have as much right to use nicotine as people have in drinking coffee or alcohol especially now there are products that allow it to be used much more safely.
     
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2019
  22. captaincranky

    captaincranky TechSpot Addict Posts: 14,914   +3,977

    I never suggested banning it, I simply stated that nicotine is a trash high that should be avoided. You can't quit it, and you drone on defending it. It's your character that's in question, not any legalities or justifications..

    And frankly, if I put up a poll, I'd suspect that many others thread are as tired of listening to you as I am.

    You need to call your local representative and share your feelings with him. You certainly are't going to accomplish anything here, even if you run on for 10 pages.
     
    pit1209 and cliffordcooley like this.
  23. Bubbajim

    Bubbajim TechSpot Staff Posts: 674   +655

    Dude, he posted like 15 replies in the thread with linked research, quotes from professors and medical professionals, and one sentence of personal experience... and you try to have a 'gotcha!' moment on that one line of personal experience?

    No one here is saying that vaping is known to be 100% harmless, but we're hugely in favour of vaping over smoking. And it's so disappointing to see (a) prohibitionists when we know that doesn't work and (b) people shooting their mouths off about vaping and smoking being equivalent pastimes.
     
    James00007 likes this.
  24. cliffordcooley

    cliffordcooley TS Guardian Fighter Posts: 11,355   +4,991

    I didn't say that, but yeah they are. They are equally annoying second hand and still bad for your health. Being forced to breath unclean air is one thing, but volunteering is quite another. Especially when volunteering also forces it on others. You continue to grade the differences, and never concede that we are better off without either.
     
  25. captaincranky

    captaincranky TechSpot Addict Posts: 14,914   +3,977

    OK, I simply don't care whether vaping is legal or not, banned or not. It doesn't matter to me.

    Nicotine in and of itself, is a worthless "high", if it can even be described as such.Other drugs, legal, prescribed or otherwise, all offer a tangible change of state.

    You can get arrested for DUI, for indulging in, smoking pot, drinking alcohol, snorting meth, shooting heroin, along with a host of prescription opiate pain killers.

    You can't get arrested for smoking cigarettes or vaping behind the wheel. Why? Because it doesn't do anything beyond, (and arguably at that), act as a mood stabilizer. Reasonably speaking, withdrawal from nicotine is likely what threw your mood off in the first place.

    So, the effect of the drug is negligible at most, and the addiction to it comes on altogether too quickly.

    To sum it up, what's the point of screwing around with it in the first place? There isn't any, except for the fact your 13 YO "friends", might tell you you're "chicken", if you don't.

    Vaping is safer than smoking, I concede that, and I don't need ten pages of reports, studies, and testimonials, to be reasonably certain of that. I've already figured it out forensically, all on my lonesome.

    The point of all the crap posted in this thread boils down to this, "I'm hooked, please don't take my nicotine away". Spare me the bullshit, non stop tedium, and excuses, simply because someone doesn't have the willpower to quit nicotine, in whatever form".

    And BTW, that crap still was used as an insecticide, and it has a very low LD-50 number.
     
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2019

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