FDA: If youth e-cigarette use doesn't decline, it will be banned

pit1209

TS Booster
I've been vaping for nearly 7 years. Why do I feel great? Why don't I cough up chunks of phlem like I did when I smoked. You seem like an expert help me understand why.
So your experience is now the standard in health research, that's comforting. I remember a quote from The Dark Tower: “A man who can't bear to share his habits is a man who needs to quit them.” That's the only thing that comes to my mind as the reason why you have been so fierceful defending vaping unless you have some kind of monetary investment with the business. To think that the "vaping" of nicotine is not harmful is like when lead was in almost everything society produced back in the day while thousands were being poisoned and companies looked the other way until it was too late.
 

James00007

TS Booster
People are going to do drugs regardless of whether it's healthier or not.

IDK why all the debate on what's better for you or not...

Seems like the debate should fall on the fact that it's apparently so easy for these kids to get them, why it's so available to them, whether it's their parents fault...

Kind of interesting that we get caught up in that discussion whether which is healthier. Addicts don't care about how healthy something is until it's a problem, or until they can notice the physical toll its taking on them.

I suppose, it's probably best to ban the **** if we can't keep it away from kids. Just like all the other drugs these kids are doing these days, that'll show 'em!
It's not only that “the kids can get to them”, THEY ARE SPECIFICALLY TARGETING KIDS with their candy look and candy flavors. They are explicitly addressing them on the Internet, telling them lies about how healthy it is (compared to tobacco).
The tobacco industry already did this a long time ago. Remember chocolate cigarettes for kids?
The booze industry did it with “alcopops”...

This isn't an incident. It is an easy way to make plenty of money - on children; “over their dead bodies”, so to speak.
They aren't enforcing the current rules. Adults like candy flavors and are entitled to buy them and should always be. Kids are not entitled to buy them, vaping is not allowed to be sold to under 18's and the penalties for doing so should be severe. The FDA are not enforcing current rules on selling to underage or on bad marketing practice that's why there is a problem. More regulations and threats towards vaping that can't be enforced won't help when they can't cope with the current ones.

You are talking about a sub section of the vaping industry that is not playing by the rules. The ones that are should not thrown under the bus because of bad actors.
 

James00007

TS Booster
Of course not smoking anything is better. But Ecig is not worse than traditional tobacco wich was my point. If you want to go that route let me assure you that coke (pepsi etc), alcohol, ketchup, caffeine, sugar, they all are harmful for your body. Even too much broccoli can be bad.
It is not worse in the sense that something can be bad but not terrible and many of the things you mentioned are not addictive per se except caffeine. I'm a medical doctor and I have knowledge of the multiple and harmful substances that just the combustion of something can create specially when it's absorbed in the lungs that are not for anything else but O2/CO2 exchange.
Lucky there is no combustion with vaping then. Being a medical doctor I would expect you would know this fact.

Heart Surgeon Says VAPING Is SAFER | Unpacking Public Health
 

James00007

TS Booster
Y'all know the nicotine is a deadly poison right? It was used as an insecticide: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicotine_poisoning

What's my point here, you ask? Well, if you take their vaping paraphernalia off them, those crazy young 'uns are liable to start shooting it...:eek::facepalm:.
"Nicotine does not cause heart disease or cancer."
- Dr K Farsalinos
Consultant cardiologist
http://saveecigs.wordpress.com/2013/12/20/european-union-regulating-e-cigarettes-based-on-ideology-and-theories-but-not-science/

"Addiction to nicotine has never caused harm to the user or to bystanders. That is why NRT products are now recommended by the FDA and the MHRA as long-term substitutes for smoking."
- Dr K Farsalinos

Prof P Hajek - QMUL video on ecigs:

"Compared to a range of dangerous non-nicotine chemicals in tobacco smoke, nicotine is relatively harmless, except in pregnancy and in some rare conditions."
- Prof Hajek

Nicotine is not associated with cancer or heart disease.
NICE, PH45
NICE is the clinical guidance authority for all UK medical practitioners

"Nicotine is not the major cause of any disease associated with smoking; it’s comparable to caffeine, which is highly addictive but safely consumed in coffee, tea and cola."
- Prof B Rodu
Professor of Medicine, oral pathology specialist
2014-01-18
http://www.courier-journal.com/article/20140119/OPINION04/301190020
 

James00007

TS Booster
Driving your own vehicle is the single most dangerous task most adults undertake on a day to day basis.

If your basis for banning something is "it's dangerous" then driving would absolutely fall under that same catagory, as would drinking, any non super healthy food (remember, obesity is going to cost more, and kill more, then cancer very shortly), sports, ece.

Why does smoking or vaping constitute being banned because of "health reasons" yet junk food and driving do not? It's called a slippery slope. Once you ban something in the name of "health" other people will use that rule to ban other things, things you use on a daily bases, because of "health reasons". Obesity kills, directly or indirectly,more people per year then smoking does, so should all non healthy food be banned too?
What you just said doesn't make any sense in the context of banning an addictive substance and it's derivatives that has been proven time and again to be harmful and unnecessary for the body in any way other than personal satisfaction out of mental dependence. Driving is more "dangerous" yes but if you follow guidelines and rules it can be safe. Now tell me in what context smoking is anything but harmful to you and anyone by your side and how that can be of benefit for you or any person.
This article is about vaping (e-cigarettes) a 95%+ safer alternative to smoking that has the potential to safe and prolong the life of millions of people and is under threat from all fronts, big pharma, big tobacco, financially motivated interests, big government and most of all public lack of understanding.
 

James00007

TS Booster
Driving your own vehicle is the single most dangerous task most adults undertake on a day to day basis.

If your basis for banning something is "it's dangerous" then driving would absolutely fall under that same catagory, as would drinking, any non super healthy food (remember, obesity is going to cost more, and kill more, then cancer very shortly), sports, ece.

Why does smoking or vaping constitute being banned because of "health reasons" yet junk food and driving do not? It's called a slippery slope. Once you ban something in the name of "health" other people will use that rule to ban other things, things you use on a daily bases, because of "health reasons". Obesity kills, directly or indirectly,more people per year then smoking does, so should all non healthy food be banned too?
What you just said doesn't make any sense in the context of banning an addictive substance and it's derivatives that has been proven time and again to be harmful and unnecessary for the body in any way other than personal satisfaction out of mental dependence. Driving is more "dangerous" yes but if you follow guidelines and rules it can be safe. Now tell me in what context smoking is anything but harmful to you and anyone by your side and how that can be of benefit for you or any person.
Vaping is an ALTERNATIVE not a derivative.
Various studies support the idea that a low dose nicotine can improve long and short-term memory through its effect on nicotine acetylcholine receptors. Since nicotine improves memory and cognition, it has been extensively studied in diseases characterized by neurodegeneration and the worsening of mental functions.
 

James00007

TS Booster
I was an avid smokers for a long long time. I then quit and a couple of years later starting vaping. Vaped a couple of years and then started having my chest hurt after a long day of vaping. I finally wised up and quit vaping too. Now I just breathe air which is what my lungs were designed for. Took me a lot of years of my life to figure that out. People think vaping is harmless. Wait for years to accumulate for the actual affects of prolonged vaping start to come in and and people are going to see how stupid they were vaping. The pure volume alone of a single vape into the lungs is multiple times more than the equivalent drag of a cigarette. And people who don't think the lungs having to continuously clear that volume of vape over years isn't going to have any kind of effect on the body are only fooling themselves. I used to be pro vape, now I'm anti cigarettes and anti vape. This is not a good thing we are introducing to our youth. We created a ticking bomb with cigarettes and now we've created another one with vaping.
nearly 7 years high volume vaping and my chest never hurt. Vaping is a close to harmless as you will get. Using vaping to quit smoking them recommending against it is disingenuous.
 

James00007

TS Booster
Might as well give our kids knives and let them screen play as Chucky. Seriously; if we are not going to moderate ourselves. And continually encourage our youth to pickup bad habits.
A tool to help adults quit smoking is like giving a kid a knife? Can't be taken "Seriously".
 

James00007

TS Booster
I didn't think we had evidence of people dying after 15 years of smoking either. That however says nothing for ones health during those 15 years.

Edit:
BTW how many packs do you smoke a day. We know you smoke/vape, if you are not against the habits.
Lets say it takes 25 years for smoking related illness to creep up. It's actually more like 35 to 50. Then lets take something that's 95%+ safer (fact). Do the math.
 

James00007

TS Booster
Comparing apples to oranges again. People have to eat. People have to drive. People do not have to smoke or vape. Both of which are undeniably unhealthy. You keep bringing up food and driving as if that could be an option. It is not and never will be an option to ban. What people choose to eat doesn't bother me in the slightest. I am however bothered by a reminder of what I used to do from second hand smoke and vaping. I am reminded of all those days I ignored the fact I was doing the same to others that didn't participate in the stupid ritual of contaminating their body. The stance you have taken makes you selfish. You think nothing of others. The fact that you are not alone is the reason we continue to have this problem. And yes it is a problem, else why would we have topics such as this article.
 

James00007

TS Booster
I didn't think we had evidence of people dying after 15 years of smoking either. That however says nothing for ones health during those 15 years.

Edit:
BTW how many packs do you smoke a day. We know you smoke/vape, if you are not against the habits.
people forget how ubiquitous smoking was and how many decades it took to change public opinion. For decades we had the cigarette companies promoting, doctors stating there were no ill health effects etc.
You could smoke on airplanes, movie theatres, in school (university), I saw a documentary, the officer was smoking in a submarine! Took decades to convince people smoking was bad for you.15 years, tis nothing
Science has progressed a lot since the revelation of the harms of smoking which was first revealed by the Royal College of Physicians (the same organisation that say vaping is 95%+ safer than smoking).
 

James00007

TS Booster
Vaping isn't smoking.
Pointless comment because vaping is associated with smoking regardless.
Ask yourself if its ethical if you are wrong (which you are in many of the things you have said), for you to be sharing your ignorant views based on no fact. When it could cause someone to stop switching to a product that could save their life.

"Switching is so close as good as quitting that from a health point of view there is no point in worrying about the difference."
- Dr C Phillips
 
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cliffordcooley

TS Redneck
@James00007 - We get it! You are promoting a health damaging product. No matter what you say, it will not change the truth. Doctors have promoted hundreds of products through the years. And decades later banned from being used. There have even been lawsuits over the products that were previously promoted by doctors killing people. I don't have time to hear your Doctor's opinion that very well could be just as wrong.
I've been vaping for nearly 7 years
A tool to help adults quit smoking is like giving a kid a knife? Can't be taken "Seriously".
It is you that "Can't be taken "Seriously" "
 
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James00007

TS Booster
Sorry I was editing my comment that addresses that question.
Show me evidence that that supports your case that isn't exaggerated to support an agenda or based on an emotive response and I'll take you seriously. You have shown an unwillingness to be proven wrong and an unwillingness to partake in any point of view that doesn't fit your own belief. I have researched this for years. If you question the sources I have used then you are welcome to investigate their credibility. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_College_of_Physicians
The most prestigious medical organisation in the world. Like I said they were the first to report on the dangers of smoking.
https://www.rcplondon.ac.uk/projects/outputs/nicotine-without-smoke-tobacco-harm-reduction-0
You are also welcome to investigate the credibility of the other Doctors and Medical professionals I have cited. I would also be quite willing to show how a lot of the negative articles and media you have based your view upon have been funded by big pharma (vested interest), especially the views from the World Health Organisation and many charities such as the Campaign for Tobacco Free kids which itself has promoted vaping to under age more than any part of the vaping industry.
 
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captaincranky

TechSpot Addict
1 Billion Tobacco deaths this century if trends continue. Advocates who support free and unhindered access to the full range of e-cigarette (vaping) products will help to enable the single most important advance in public health since the discovery of antibiotics: in one small country alone, full support for this approach has the potential to save millions of lives just among those alive today.
Harmful has a scale and vaping is very low on that scale unlike say walking down a street with traffic.


Addictive substance that's not necessary like caffeine, sugar and alcohol. Life would be pretty miserable if we didn't enjoy the things that are not necessary. But in actual fact it is necessary in helping stop 1 billion people dying this century.
The Royal College of Physicans (the most prestigious medical group in the world) say that vaping (e-cigs) are 95%+ safer than smoking. I suggest you take a read of some real science and know what you are talking about before putting out factless information that could literately cause harm.
https://www.rcplondon.ac.uk/news/promote-e-cigarettes-widely-substitute-smoking-says-new-rcp-report
"The growing mountain of scientific and empirical evidence consistently indicates that e-cigarettes:
- are 99% (+/-1%) less hazardous than cigarettes,
- pose no risks to nonusers,
- emit similar levels of constituents as FDA approved nicotine inhalers,
- are consumed almost exclusively (I.e. 99%) by smokers and former smokers who quit by switching to e-cigs,
- have never been known to addict any nonsmoker (or youth) to nicotine,
- have helped several million smokers quit and/or sharply reduce cigarette consumption,
- have replaced/reduced about 750 million packs of cigarettes in past five years,
- are more effective than nicotine gums, lozenges and patches for smoking cessation and reducing cigarette consumption, and
- pose fewer risks than FDA approved Chantix or Wellbutrin.

Besides, all of the following products and activities emit far more indoor air pollution than does an e-cigarette, but e-cigarette prohibitionists haven't called for banning or restricting any of them.

- plywood and other building materials
- glues
- paint
- carpeting
- furniture
- appliances
- cooking
- every exhale by every smoker for more than an hour after smoking every cigarette
- smoker’s clothes and hair
- printers
- photocopiers
- computers
- cleaning products
- dry cleaned clothes
- hair sprays
- perfumes
- nail polish and nail polish remover
- air fresheners."
-- Bill Godshall
https://physiciansnews.com/2014/08/19/another-view-the-pros-of-electronic-cigarettes/
http://casaa.org/wp-content/uploads/GodshallFDAcomment-December-2015.pdf
"E-cigarettes are probably about as safe as drinking coffee."
- Prof R West
Yea black market is way better. Gotta love funding criminals. Hopefully we can get someone to ban everything including things you like too.
"...every one of the anti-smoking groups which has called for electronic cigarettes to be pulled off the market ..... has a financial conflict of interest with pharmaceutical companies that manufacture the smoking cessation drugs."
- M Siegel
(Typical resource)
http://tobaccoanalysis.blogspot.co.uk/2014/06/its-official-big-pharma-is-lobbying.html
I've been vaping for nearly 7 years. Why do I feel great? Why don't I cough up chunks of phlem like I did when I smoked. You seem like an expert help me understand why.
The number of vapers has been increasing rapidly - from about seven million in 2011 to 35 million in 2016. Market research group Euromonitor estimates that the number of adults who vape will reach almost 55 million by 2021.
Well @James00007 , I think at this point we get it, you're hopelessly hooked, and you'll go to any lengths to defend your "right" to use nicotine in any form, particularly "vaping".

I'm an ex smoker who didn't turn to vaping as a crutch or pastime. I'm simply a cheapskate, and I won't pay that kind of money for the worthless, trash high, that comes with nicotine consumption.

In fact, I smoke a few cigarettes a year, generally no more often than 5 or six months apart. It's a lot of fun. The smoke, and with it the nicotine high, goes straight to your head. The trouble is, that with nicotine the addiction curve escalates so rapidly, the state change it induces, is unnoticeable while you're on it, and the withdrawal pangs when you're off it, create violent mood swings and intense cravings.

So, defend it all you want. I'll grant you that vaping is certainly nowhere near as harmful as cigarettes, but IMO, it's not worth taking up, if you've never smoked in the first place. As for former smokers, it's just a crutch, and a trash high to boot.

And I'd be willing to bet, the young people who take up vaping, are doing it for the same stupid reasons they started smoking in years past, peer pressure, and social acceptance.
 
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James00007

TS Booster
You talk about nicotine like its crack and people that use it are like crack addicts, its closer to caffeine in terms of effect and in terms of harm when used in vaping. People that don't smoke or vape should not take up either. Under 18's should not be taking up either and there are laws currently in place to stop that, and laws against certain types of marketing which are not being enforced by the FDA.

Vaping is not harmless but it is orders of magnitude safer than smoking and that's the key. What they don't talk about when they mention kids vaping is that smoking rates for youth are at an all time low, the FDA try to take credit but that's down to vaping. These are the youth that try things, not just vaping but everything else they shouldn't be doing. They find ways to get it no matter how extreme these regulations are. The answer is not to ban and restrict everything to the point where it will effect the freedom of choice and effectiveness for adults to have access to life saving vaping products.

Myself and any other adult have as much right to use nicotine as people have in drinking coffee or alcohol especially now there are products that allow it to be used much more safely.
 
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captaincranky

TechSpot Addict
You talk about nicotine like its crack and people that use it are like crack addicts, its closer to caffeine in terms of effect and in terms of harm when used in vaping. People that don't smoke or vape should not take up either. Under 18's should not be taking up either and there are laws currently in place to stop that, and laws against certain types of marketing which are not being enforced by the FDA. Vaping is not harmless but it is orders of magnitude safer than smoking and that's the key. What they don't talk about when they mention kids vaping is that smoking rates for youth are at an all time low, the FDA try to take credit but that's down to vaping. These are the youth that try things, not just vaping but everything else they shouldn't be doing. They find ways to get it no matter how extreme these regulations are. The answer is not to ban and restrict everything to the point where it will effect the freedom of choice for adults to have access to life saving vaping products. Myself and any other adult have as much right to use nicotine as people have in drinking coffee or alcohol especially now there are products that allow it to be used much more safely.
I never suggested banning it, I simply stated that nicotine is a trash high that should be avoided. You can't quit it, and you drone on defending it. It's your character that's in question, not any legalities or justifications..

And frankly, if I put up a poll, I'd suspect that many others thread are as tired of listening to you as I am.

You need to call your local representative and share your feelings with him. You certainly are't going to accomplish anything here, even if you run on for 10 pages.
 

Bubbajim

TechSpot Staff
Staff member
So your experience is now the standard in health research, that's comforting.
Dude, he posted like 15 replies in the thread with linked research, quotes from professors and medical professionals, and one sentence of personal experience... and you try to have a 'gotcha!' moment on that one line of personal experience?

No one here is saying that vaping is known to be 100% harmless, but we're hugely in favour of vaping over smoking. And it's so disappointing to see (a) prohibitionists when we know that doesn't work and (b) people shooting their mouths off about vaping and smoking being equivalent pastimes.
 
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cliffordcooley

TS Redneck
people shooting their mouths off about vaping and smoking being equivalent pastimes.
I didn't say that, but yeah they are. They are equally annoying second hand and still bad for your health. Being forced to breath unclean air is one thing, but volunteering is quite another. Especially when volunteering also forces it on others. You continue to grade the differences, and never concede that we are better off without either.
 

captaincranky

TechSpot Addict
Dude, he posted like 15 replies in the thread with linked research, quotes from professors and medical professionals, and one sentence of personal experience... and you try to have a 'gotcha!' moment on that one line of personal experience?

No one here is saying that vaping is known to be 100% harmless, but we're hugely in favour of vaping over smoking. And it's so disappointing to see (a) prohibitionists when we know that doesn't work and (b) people shooting their mouths off about vaping and smoking being equivalent pastimes.
OK, I simply don't care whether vaping is legal or not, banned or not. It doesn't matter to me.

Nicotine in and of itself, is a worthless "high", if it can even be described as such.Other drugs, legal, prescribed or otherwise, all offer a tangible change of state.

You can get arrested for DUI, for indulging in, smoking pot, drinking alcohol, snorting meth, shooting heroin, along with a host of prescription opiate pain killers.

You can't get arrested for smoking cigarettes or vaping behind the wheel. Why? Because it doesn't do anything beyond, (and arguably at that), act as a mood stabilizer. Reasonably speaking, withdrawal from nicotine is likely what threw your mood off in the first place.

So, the effect of the drug is negligible at most, and the addiction to it comes on altogether too quickly.

To sum it up, what's the point of screwing around with it in the first place? There isn't any, except for the fact your 13 YO "friends", might tell you you're "chicken", if you don't.

Vaping is safer than smoking, I concede that, and I don't need ten pages of reports, studies, and testimonials, to be reasonably certain of that. I've already figured it out forensically, all on my lonesome.

The point of all the crap posted in this thread boils down to this, "I'm hooked, please don't take my nicotine away". Spare me the bullshit, non stop tedium, and excuses, simply because someone doesn't have the willpower to quit nicotine, in whatever form".

And BTW, that crap still was used as an insecticide, and it has a very low LD-50 number.
 
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