FDA: If youth e-cigarette use doesn't decline, it will be banned

Bubbajim

TechSpot Staff
Staff member
I didn't say that, but yeah they are. They are equally annoying second hand and still bad for your health. Being forced to breath unclean air is one thing, but volunteering is quite another. Especially when volunteering also forces it on others. You continue to grade the differences, and never concede that we are better off without either.
You finding them equally annoying doesn't mean they're equal in any other way. And yes, I'm arguing about the differences, precisely because of the position you and others are taking.

I have no need nor desire to 'concede that we are better off without either'. What does better mean in that context? And for whom? And who gets to decide the answers to those two questions?

Ignoring vaping for a moment, is total prohibition of tobacco better for the individual who likes smoking? Better for the farmer who relies on the crop? Better for the government who get massive tax income from it that pays for other aspects of civil life? Some points are cut-and-dry - yes, it's much healthier not to smoke than it is to smoke, that's a non-debate, but some people recognise that we only get one life and if you enjoy doing something, it's your choice to do it; to hell with the personal consequences.
 
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Bubbajim

TechSpot Staff
Staff member
The point of all the crap posted in this thread boils down to this, "I'm hooked, please don't take my nicotine away". Spare me the bulls!it and excuses, simply because someone simply doesn't have the willpower to quit nicotine, in whatever form".
I disagree. I feel that most of the pro-vaping posts in this thread have been saying don't unnecessarily crack down on the much safer alternative to smoking, when the reality of the world is that people have done, and always will, use drugs in some form. Pretty much the whole argument is that safer forms of those drugs are better than riskier forms of those drugs. That shouldn't be controversial.
 
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captaincranky

TechSpot Addict
I disagree. I feel that most of the pro-vaping posts in this thread have been saying don't unnecessarily crack down on the much safer alternative to smoking, when the reality of the world is that people have done, and always will, use drugs in some form. Pretty much the whole argument is that safer forms of those drugs are better than riskier forms of those drugs. That shouldn't be controversial.
What in god's name have I said to offer you a point of contention? Nothing.

I also agree that people always have, and always will, use drugs. Since that's an immutable point, at least use a drug that does something.

I'm offering comment on what the central issue of vaping is all about, getting nicotine into your body, and what the drug and its concomitant addiction is all about.

Besides, this is going to be the second time I've had to explain this, and I didn't think I'd have to explain it to you:

>Someone can run their yap until they pass out about this topic here at Techspot, and it won't change a god damned thing. Call your congressman.<

The only other reason I can come up with for the excesses of opinion in this thread, is that we have a member who's, "all vaped up, and looking for an argument".

EDIT: If you want a drug that truly offers a dramatic change in state, you could always try this:

First add LSD 25. Then throw in a little strychnine to cause auditory hallucinations and brightness of vision. You finish off the mix with some methamphetamine, to keep you alert, with a healthy dose of paranoia. If I could remember back that far, I think they called it "orange sunshine".

Hey, at least it's pretty much non addictive. In fact, I've heard it said, "you never remember why you stopped doing orange sunshine, until the next time you do it".
 
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Bubbajim

TechSpot Staff
Staff member
What in god's name have I said to offer you a point of contention? Nothing.
The point of contention was quite obviously the statement I quoted.

>Someone can run their yap until they pass out about this topic here at Techspot, and it won't change a god damned thing. Call your congressman.<

The only other reason I can come up with for the excesses of opinion in this thread, is that we have a member who's, "all vaped up, and looking for an argument".
We're debating on the internet, of course nothing is going to come of it. But it's fun.

*Almost* pointless but still enjoyable - like vaping - so let's not ban it, eh?
 

captaincranky

TechSpot Addict
The point of contention was quite obviously the statement I quoted.
No, because the position I was taking had nothing to do with the legality or illegality of vaping.
We're debating on the internet, of course nothing is going to come of it. But it's fun.
Here again, why waste all that energy in a forum where it's expenditure will gain you nothing. I say, "take a break from the typewriter, and give us a rest". Meanwhile you can vape your brains out while scooting off a letter to whatshername, in the 20 buck a porn license thread to allow the use of E-cigarettes forever..
*Almost* pointless but still enjoyable - like vaping - so let's not ban it, eh?
As I have repeatedly stated, I have no opinion, vested interest, or care, as to whether it is banned or not.

I was driving to the gas station and I saw a sign, "special price Newport $10.95 pack". Wow.

Vaping is the tobacco industry's last resort to remain in command of people's wallet, over a drug which does little other than make them billions of dollars, and cause addiction wholesale. But as they say, "it's your money, piss it away however you must".
 

Jon Heil

TS Member
Thats the stupid federal government for you. Wasting time to spew about nonsense. If the kids want, they will pick up a can and huff that. Stop wasting money with federal and government and even a bunch of state workers. Mega leeches... Sad the fruitcakes making GoFundMe pages... no stop buying things you dont need, having these huge pensions, cut them in 1/2 and get the budget right, instead of crying wolf and save the children bs... yawn.
 
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James00007

TS Booster
Vaping is saving millions of peoples lives (central point) and you are banging on about getting high. Caffeine same effects, billions of people using it daily, trash high so what? Should we all start doing Ecstasy every week so we get a good high? The whole high point is utterly irrelevant.

Vaping is 95% safer than smoking and is likened to antibiotics in terms of benefit to public health. You said "OK, I simply don't care whether vaping is legal or not, banned or not. It doesn't matter to me.". "As I have repeatedly stated, I have no opinion, vested interest, or care, as to whether it is banned or not." Captaincranky why do you get involved in something you don't care about? I care that's why I got involved in the discussion and I will not be censored just because you don't like someone telling you that your entire stance is wrong and frankly nonsense.

Saying that vaping came from the tobacco industry just proves that you don't understand anything about it or where it came from. I'm sorry that facts and different opinions to your own upset you so much and you feel the need to berate people for posting against you and I'm sure that's why many people avoid getting involved in threads that you are in.

It's true that I did make a lot of posts but that's just a small sample of the truth on vaping. It's truth that people need to see because the smokers, friends and family of smokers read or hear people talk the utter crap.

about getting high.
about vaping being more or as dangerous than smoking.
about giving kids knives is better than vaping.
about banning everything.
about kids being hooked like crack addicts to nicotine.

and they keep smoking and don't go near vaping and then end up dying from a smoking related disease all because you posted or talked to people knowing nothing about the thing you are talking about, have been influenced by the views of someone who is clueless or have followed the lies and exaggeration put out in the media to serve financial corrupt interests.

To be clear nobody is taking my nicotine away because I have 4 litres of it in my freezer. So short of a being raided and having it taken I will always have access, even if god forbid it came to a black market situation (that's when you will see real harm). This is about the millions of smokers all over the world that won't get to access the full range of products to help them switch to a safer alternative to smoking.

cliffordcooley Second hand vaping is not at all harmful. You are talking about people with no manners who have blown vape near you. That's a problem with etiquette and respect to bystanders not about vaping. Think about the harm done by drinking alcohol, where is the outcry on kids drinking, where is the outcry on the harm of alcohol abuse and the destruction it does to society it terms of crime and harm. Lets compare that to the chump that blew a little harmless vapor near you once and your world where we throw millions of lives under the bus because that upsets you.

Sit in a room full of people vaping for a few hours you won't even have a cough. Now do that with a car pumping its fumes in.

I actually do concede that we are better off without either, that is a point I will agree with. Nobody can argue that tobacco never existing and killing more people than anything is better. But tobacco is going nowhere when it funds governments and states. Smoking will never be banned but what can and has been done by public health groups in the past, is to make smokers appear as disgusting, dirty people that need to be kept away from others and this is why many have such disdain for them, even when they have found something to help them quit. Smokers are people, real human lives with friends and family that care about them and don't want them to die decades earlier than they should.

The "I don't do it, so neither should you" attitude is disgusting when 1 billion people will die this century if smoking trends continue.
 
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captaincranky

TechSpot Addict
I will simply say this is scientific fact and there is zero scientific evidence to prove otherwise.

I will leave it at that because posts are now being deleted.
Well, I've conceded the fact that "vaping" is likely, even much less likely to cause the diseases associated with smoking. Nicotine is merely extremely addictive, but in and of itself, doesn't leave tar deposits in the lungs as do smoking tobaccos.

Now, you've disputed that big tobacco is involved with nicotine production. Since you've inundated us with links to "prove" your point. I have at least one for you. Here's an excerpt:
  • The e-cigarette market is expected to be worth $34 billion by 2021, and is increasingly dominated by tobacco companies such as Reynolds American and Altria (formerly known as Philip Morris).
https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/tobacco-companies-taking-over-the-e-cigarette-industry_us_58b48e02e4b0658fc20f98d0

https://www.migvapor.com/ecig-news/influence-big-tobacco-e-cigarette-market/

These links and dozens more like them., you've somehow managed to omit from your ecigarette proselytizing.

Unfortunately when the mods deem it appropriate to yank one of my posts , the relevant and inflammatory are excised as one.

One relevant part of my last post was the simple fact that "all men must die", (with apologies to GoT), and world population is out of control. Now apparently, you can either slow down Homo sapiens reproduction, or do it the hard way, and kill them off with tobacco. Sadly, tobacco seems the more effective means. And isn't it customary, for humans to light up a cigarette after copulation? That irony seems lost on you.

You can't seem to bring yourself to the realization that nicotine dependence is undesirable, as it hinders your independence, and digs deep into you pocketbook, with little rewards after full addiction has taken hold. Those facts are completely independent of which method of nicotine consumption is chosen.

Let's go back to the paradox of overpopulation, and human histrionics related to the necessity of removing all dangers which could cause premature death in our environment. "Driverless cars are going to eliminate highway fatalities". "Advancements in medicine are going to allow granny to live to be 150".

And all those saved souls need to be fed, now don't they? So, the human race wants it both ways. Or is it one way, their way?

Incidentally, there's a huge lab in China which synthesizes nicotine. Synthetic nicotine is more expensive than that which is extracted from tobacco. Who knows, maybe nicotine is contributing to the US trade deficit with China, as much as that damned iPhone.

In any case, happy vaping. come hell or high water. . Me being such a quitter I envy you. (well, maybe not).

BTW, if you believe this link http://www.nextgenerationlabs.com/ntn-from-hiliq-proved-not-to-be-synthetic-nicotine/ China is once again playing it fast and loose with what's actually in their so called "synthetic nicotine". Oh well, their steel has god knows what's in it, and there's their infamous "pot metal", a metallic equivalent to "pot luck soup". Then too, they inundated the US market with poisonous pet food. Oddly, it was the supposedly high end brands which were affected the most.
 
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captaincranky

TechSpot Addict
I'll post this observation separately in case the mods consider it "too ad hominem".

@James00007 Throughout the entire course of this thread, you've exhibited the behavior of an addict, completely skirting the causations of nicotine addiction, and justifying its use to yourself and everyone else here in the process..

You have posted "evidence" to the end that vaping is less harmful then smoking tobacco. OK, granted. But everything you've posted, is to the end of justifying your own compulsion and apparently dire need of satisfying your habit.

The reason for the proposed ban, is that young people continue to be hooked on nicotine, in the traditional ways, and yes, I firmly believe that big tobacco, is making a big comeback in that arena.

Like every other mom and pop business which has been forced out of existence by large corporations, (if there are), small tobacco farming operations supplying e-cigarette vendors, they will eventually be wiped out by the long established, and well funded, old guard.

EDIT: Since you're obviously too naive to realize it, big tobacco is your best friend in the fight against banning e-cigarettes, as only they have, or can summon, the lobbying clout to possibly prevent a ban from happening
 
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James00007

TS Booster
I am very sure that all you do here here captaincranky is argue for the sake of it. You have clearly stated on multiple occasions that you don't care and now that you believe in population control and the early deaths of millions of people.

"There is a pervasive myth that vaping was developed by the tobacco industry to prolong cigarette smoking or to hook the next generation of teens to tobacco addiction. This simply is not true."
https://athra.org.au/is-vaping-a-conspiracy-created-by-big-tobacco/

I could show you pages of information and proof that big tobacco did not create nor or is the main part of vaping but like everything else here it is likely to prove you wrong and further upset you. It is especially pointless when you have ignored every other post I made and the information contained within them that discuss the many points you continue to bring up and contradict yourself on.

Most of the nicotine used in vaping devices is made by Pharmaceutical companies in the country they are used. and is the very same nicotine that is used in patches and gums. Most of it is not synthetic (because that is more costly) and not made in China.

A bit more about my hopeless addiction you seem to picture:

"Studies have shown that none of the nicotine replacement therapies - chewing gum, inhalers, patches - none of those are addictive. Nicotine is not addictive. The cause of addiction is the release of monoamine oxidase inhibitors, or MAOIs, along with nicotine."
- Prof Peter Killeen
Emeritus Professor of Psychology, ASU
http://www.statepress.com/archive/node/7194

"The changes that FDA is allowing to these labels reflect the fact that although any nicotine-containing product is potentially addictive, decades of research and use have shown that NRT products sold OTC do not appear to have significant potential for abuse or dependence."
US FDA
Nicotine Replacement Therapy Labels May Change
http://www.fda.gov/forconsumers/consumerupdates/ucm345087.htm
To clarify: the FDA are stating that pure nicotine does not create dependence, although this is slightly obscured.

"There is very little to no evidence for the abuse of nicotine when not delivered in a tobacco vehicle."
- Prof K Fagerstrom
http://nicotinepolicy.net/karl-fagerstrom/520-dependence-on-tobacco-and-nicotine

Vaping does not meet the criteria of addiction. Addiction is persisting use despite negative consequences. There are no negative consequences thus no addiction. Like with coffee. This is why your likening to using nicotine in vaping being on par with crack addiction is so lunatic.

They can ban all forms of vaping tomorrow I will still have access so the entire argument you have continued to put forth of me being this quivering mess than needs my next fix is false on every level.

I could quit nicotine at any point. Many people quit smoking with the use of vaping then move to zero nicotine e-liquid or quit completely. It is the other chemicals found in tobacco and especially cigarettes that make smoking much more addictive. Being an ex smoker you should appreciate how hard it is to quit and understand that most people cannot quit cold turkey.

But back to the kids that are being used as tool to destroy the vaping industry that is mostly consisted of small shops and has created thousands of jobs and helped millions of smokers switch from a product that will kill them to one that won't. Yes that is the goal of the FDA. To destroy the small business so they can deal with rich ones that will pay them whatever whey want, it's just a shame these big evil companies are ill equipped to provide the support and custom personal experience of a local vape shop in helping someone quit.

Big tobacco is no friend to vaping but they are not the biggest enemy. see post #94

I have no financial ties to the vaping industry. I am passionate about this subject after watching my father die of cancer from smoking most of his life and my 10 year smoking habit which I never wanted or tried to correct until I found vaping which I instantly switched to and used for the last 7 years. For myself I can say without doubt I would still be smoking now and the vast majority of the current people that vape will say the same.
 
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captaincranky

TechSpot Addict
Vaping does not meet the criteria of addiction. Addiction is persisting use despite negative consequences. There are no negative consequences thus no addiction. Like with coffee. This is why your likening to using nicotine in vaping being on par with crack addiction is so lunatic.
OK listen, you've now managed to invert the definition of "addiction" to one which serves your agenda..

The above is basically crap. "Addiction", whether psychological or physical, is a substance which causes emotional or physical trauma, when an affected individual is deprived of the substance.

If opiates were made freely available, in all likelihood, the affect on an individuals demeanor and health would be somewhat negligible. In fact, the famous model Kate Moss, with her ultra slim figure and pallor, created a niche in the modeling world characterized as "heroin chic". And she was paid thousands of dollars a shoot.

Addiction is only completely possible in certain personality types at the onset. We all have our weaknesses.

At one point, it was speculated that LSD could be used as a cure for alcoholism. You have to have had a slug of whiskey while you were tripping to know exactly why that was.

They can ban all forms of vaping tomorrow I will still have access so the entire argument you have continued to put forth of me being this quivering mess than needs my next fix is false on every level.
I could quit nicotine at any point. Many people quit smoking with the use of vaping then move to zero nicotine e-liquid or quit completely. It is the other chemicals found in tobacco and especially cigarettes that make smoking much more addictive.
Right. "You can quit any time, it's just that you'll make damned certain you never have to".
Being an ex smoker you should appreciate how hard it is to quit and understand that most people cannot quit cold turkey.
Trust me, I know that all too well, along with how little it would take to slide right back into the habit.

But back to the kids that are being used as tool to destroy the vaping industry that is mostly consisted of small shops and has created thousands of jobs and helped millions of smokers switch from a product that will kill them to one that won't. Yes that is the goal of the FDA. To destroy the small business so they can deal with rich ones that will pay them whatever whey want, it's just a shame these big evil companies are ill equipped to provide the support and custom personal experience of a local vape shop in helping someone quit.
No, kidz are being harvested for their money, and the same reasons they started smoking in the past, are the same ones which will persuade them to take up vaping today. With much less health risks attached, it makes them more susceptible, and vaping much more attractive. Very possibly leading to a higher incidence of addiction. Yes that's right, I said "addiction".

And BTW, saying "that I come here to argue with people", is a distortion of fact. I actually come here for the laughs, and likely a few people will tell you I can be comical at times. You're confusing my screen name with my purpose. But quite frankly, your self presentation leaves no segue or point for humor to attach.
 
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James00007

TS Booster
Lets boil it down to the question of:

Is addiction without harm dangerous?

We know addiction with harm is, so when you take a product that completely removes that harm you get something, that will do no damage on a population like with coffee. Caffeine is addictive with billions of people addicted, the reason we don't treat those people like crack addicts is because there is very little harm. I'm still trying to get through to you that nicotine is like caffeine in terms of harm but you keep bringing it back to illegal drugs.

The only threat to that no harm is to restrict and regulate to the point where it's availability and effectiveness is reduced to the point where harmful products are as or more accessible. That is what is happening in America. That is what the FDA is talking about in this article. Many other countries have embraced vaping and in a few decades you will see the real impact of that. It is a shame that it will take the deaths of people in the countries that get this wrong to see the real cost of a war against vaping and e-cigs.

Opiates are damaging to human health, nicotine when used in a safe way is not. While is it true that LSD and many other drugs that have been made illegal many of them have evidence of health benefits which we are seeing a lot of with cannabis and CBD. The problem though with a lot of those drugs is the mind altering nature of the substance which you seem to crave, this is damaging to a functioning society in many obvious ways because while you may use them responsibly many will not.

Big Pharma companies are very rich and very powerful, they buy influence. It's that influence you will see when confronted with many of the horror stories towards vaping. Such as the FDA's EPIDEMIC talk. With little effort you can see where the hand of this talk and media stems from.

I can quit at any time but I choose to use nicotine because I enjoy using nicotine in a safe way and any adult should be free to do the same.

The kids that vape would be smoking if they weren't vaping. So sure we can stop kids vaping by restricting it to the point its easier for them to acquire tobacco which is 95% more harmful. The vaping industry don't want kids vaping at all. It's clear that we don't want kids using any kind of drug including nicotine in any form but the obvious fact is something that is 95% safer is better than the alternative.

You will never stop kids trying things they shouldn't. It's about what is reasonable.

Good regulations

Fine kids
Fine parents
Fine schools
Give harsh penalties to places that sell to under 18
Give harsh penalties to products with kid friendly marketing
Appropriate tests on quality that won't shut down small business

Bad regulations

Taxes
Treating vaping like smoking
Restrictions to flavors or products
Restrictions to bottle sizes
Restrictions to nicotine strengths
Public place bans
Bans to factual health claims
Over 21 requirements (make smoking over 21 make vaping over 18)
 

captaincranky

TechSpot Addict
We know addiction with harm is, so when you take a product that completely removes that harm you get something, that will do no damage on a population like with coffee. Caffeine is addictive with billions of people addicted, the reason we don't treat those people like crack addicts is because there is very little harm. I'm still trying to get through to you that nicotine is like caffeine in terms of harm but you keep bringing it back to illegal drugs.
OK let's cut through the BS. The truth of the matter is, caffeine isn't comparable to nicotine in the sense it's a whole lot easier to quit drinking coffee than it is smoking cigarettes. Or are you going to contest that as well?)

I'm addicted to caffeine, but I don't snap at people when I haven't had any. Someone being without a cigarette is a whole different ballgame.

You seem to think I crave crack. What I crave is a drug which changes my state of consciousness, without flying me so close to the flame I'm caught up in it.

Hysterical doom saying aside, you can pretty much do what you like, as long as it's in moderation, without frequent serial periodic repetition.

Hell, as far as that goes, Coca-cola had cocaine in it until 1903 (?)

As I said several times, nicotine is a drug with little effect, and strong addictive properties. It basically doesn't do much other than get you hooked. And well, keep your weight down.
 
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James00007

TS Booster
This is about vaping not smoking. Vaping is not smoking. Smoking is not comparable to drinking coffee and is much more dangerous. Vaping is very comparable to drinking coffee and is as, if not less harmful. Caffeine is proven comparable to nicotine. Just as you don't just use caffeine solely for addiction so too people don't just use nicotine solely for addiction. You can say the effect is small but there is effect, people enjoy that effect and use it for that effect.

"Nicotine is not the major cause of any disease associated with smoking; it’s comparable to caffeine, which is highly addictive but safely consumed in coffee, tea and cola."
- Prof B Rodu
Professor of Medicine, oral pathology specialist
2014-01-18
http://www.courier-journal.com/article/20140119/OPINION04/301190020

It's the other chemicals in tobacco that create that kind the kind of harmful addiction you talk about such as the snappy behavior.

https://www.ecigarettedirect.co.uk/ashtray-blog/2014/11/10-benefits-of-nicotine.html

Luckily we don't measure the positive benefit of things based on how strong the effect is because that will be destructive to functioning society, even when there are people that will use it responsibly.

I fully appreciate your view that you would rather have access to something with a more meaningful effect, but you must agree that this viewpoint is quite unrealistic when talking about law and regulation.

I'm sure you won't be stopping the use of caffeine because of its "little effect" and neither will people that use nicotine and nobody should have to because some teen punk rebel decides to chug down 50 cans of Red Bull or equivalent.
 
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pit1209

TS Addict
This is about vaping not smoking. Vaping is not smoking. Smoking is not comparable to drinking coffee and is much more dangerous. Vaping is very comparable to drinking coffee and is as, if not less harmful. Caffeine is proven comparable to nicotine. Just as you don't just use caffeine solely for addiction so too people don't just use nicotine solely for addiction. You can say the effect is small but there is effect, people enjoy that effect and use it for that effect.

"Nicotine is not the major cause of any disease associated with smoking; it’s comparable to caffeine, which is highly addictive but safely consumed in coffee, tea and cola."
- Prof B Rodu
Professor of Medicine, oral pathology specialist
2014-01-18
http://www.courier-journal.com/article/20140119/OPINION04/301190020

It's the other chemicals in tobacco that create that kind the kind of harmful addiction you talk about such as the snappy behavior.

https://www.ecigarettedirect.co.uk/ashtray-blog/2014/11/10-benefits-of-nicotine.html

Luckily we don't measure the positive benefit of things based on how strong the effect is because that will be destructive to functioning society, even when there are people that will use it responsibly.

I fully appreciate your view that you would rather have access to something with a more meaningful effect, but you must agree that this viewpoint is quite unrealistic when talking about law and regulation.

I'm sure you won't be stopping the use of caffeine because of its "little effect" and neither will people that use nicotine and nobody should have to because some teen punk rebel decides to chug down 50 cans of Red Bull or equivalent.
It would be funny to know how many vapes or whatever is called did you use while searching for all that "scientific facts" that corroborate what everyone here knows. Nicotine is highly addictive, unnecessary and should be away from children and personally the fact that a person needs to be "hooked" to something may be a substance or anything, harmful or not it just shows mental weakness and a desire to escape reality and its consequences.
 

Morris Minor

TS Addict
Also, if states can declare that other addictive drugs like marijuana are legalQUOTE]


just a small thing, marijuana isn't addictive. there is no addictive ingredient in the plants make-up. I was a heavy smoker for 25 years, all day everyday. gave up 11 months ago with no need to start. nothing goes in to your body that leaves a craving when stopped.
 

James00007

TS Booster
It would be funny to know how many vapes or whatever is called did you use while searching for all that "scientific facts" that corroborate what everyone here knows. Nicotine is highly addictive, unnecessary and should be away from children and personally the fact that a person needs to be "hooked" to something may be a substance or anything, harmful or not it just shows mental weakness and a desire to escape reality and its consequences.
It wouldn't be that funny knowing how much e-liquid I vaped (about 0.2ml) while I searching for those facts because you would have absolutely no clue what I was talking about.

We don't measure vapes like cigarettes because vaping is not smoking. Nicotine is necessary in helping people quit smoking that's why it is used in Nicotine Replacement Therapy and is prescribed by every doctor and medical professional globally.

It should be kept away from children and at no point did I or any part of the vaping industry say otherwise.

Do you really think everything should be ran by your prohibitionist moral compass and what you deem is best for society? Do you have any idea how egotistical that is? People can get "hooked" to eating salad, if I don't eat salad then its unnecessary, ban salad. Your ideas are the slippery slope to the world of everything offending someone and therefore it should be banned. Get real.

Mental weakness is talking or calling for a ban on something you know nothing about. Before reading this thread I'm sure you were telling people that vaping is worse than smoking and it will kill you in seconds.

He just wants everyone to think he is vaping from a distance. While in reality it is a modified bong.
No.
An electronic cigarette or e-cigarette is a handheld electronic device that simulates the feeling of smoking. It works by heating a liquid to generate an aerosol, commonly called a "vapor", that the user inhales. Using e-cigarettes is commonly referred to as vaping. The liquid in the e-cigarette, called e-liquid, or e-juice, is usually made of nicotine, propylene glycol, glycerine, and flavorings. Not all e-liquids contain nicotine.

I probably should have started with that before assuming people posting on this topic already knew what it was.
 
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James00007

TS Booster
Nicotine is a substance found in most members of the Nightshade family of plants. Small quantities of it can be found in tomatoes, potatoes, aubergines (eggplants) and green pepper (Capsicum, the peppers used as vegetables).
 
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pit1209

TS Addict
Nicotine is a substance found in most members of the Nightshade family of plants. Small quantities of it can be found in tomatoes, potatoes, aubergines (eggplants) and green pepper (Capsicum, the peppers used as vegetables).
"
[SIZE=5]Truth No. 2: Vaping Is Still Bad for Your Health.[/SIZE]
Nicotine is the primary agent in both regular cigarettes and e-cigarettes, and it is highly addictive. It causes you to crave a smoke and suffer withdrawal symptoms if you ignore the craving. Nicotine is also a toxic substance. It raises your blood pressure and spikes your adrenaline, which increases your heart rate and the likelihood of having a heart attack.

There are many unknowns about vaping, including what chemicals make up the vapor and how they affect physical health over the long term. “People need to understand that e-cigarettes are potentially dangerous to your health,” says Blaha. “You’re exposing yourself to all kinds of chemicals that we don’t yet understand and that are probably not safe.”

[SIZE=5]Truth No. 3: Electronic Cigarettes Are Just as Addictive as Traditional Ones.[/SIZE]
Both e-cigarettes and regular cigarettes contain nicotine, which research suggests may be as addictive as heroin and cocaine. What’s worse, says Blaha, many e-cigarette users get even more nicotine than they would from a tobacco product — you can buy extra-strength cartridges, which have a higher concentration of nicotine, or you can increase the e-cigarette’s voltage to get a greater hit of the substance. "
https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/health/healthy_heart/know_your_risks/5-truths-you-need-to-know-about-vaping
 

James00007

TS Booster
"
[SIZE=5]Truth No. 2: Vaping Is Still Bad for Your Health.[/SIZE]
Nicotine is the primary agent in both regular cigarettes and e-cigarettes, and it is highly addictive. It causes you to crave a smoke and suffer withdrawal symptoms if you ignore the craving. Nicotine is also a toxic substance. It raises your blood pressure and spikes your adrenaline, which increases your heart rate and the likelihood of having a heart attack.

There are many unknowns about vaping, including what chemicals make up the vapor and how they affect physical health over the long term. “People need to understand that e-cigarettes are potentially dangerous to your health,” says Blaha. “You’re exposing yourself to all kinds of chemicals that we don’t yet understand and that are probably not safe.”

[SIZE=5]Truth No. 3: Electronic Cigarettes Are Just as Addictive as Traditional Ones.[/SIZE]
Both e-cigarettes and regular cigarettes contain nicotine, which research suggests may be as addictive as heroin and cocaine. What’s worse, says Blaha, many e-cigarette users get even more nicotine than they would from a tobacco product — you can buy extra-strength cartridges, which have a higher concentration of nicotine, or you can increase the e-cigarette’s voltage to get a greater hit of the substance. "
https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/health/healthy_heart/know_your_risks/5-truths-you-need-to-know-about-vaping
see post #94 The John Hopkins School of Public Health received a $400,000 grant from the Robert Wood Johnson Foundation (was created by Johnson & Johnson) for the specific task of studying e-cigarettes.

Dollars vs. Ethics: Resisting the Influence of Big Pharma
https://www.caringfortheages.com/article/S1526-4114(17)30129-4/fulltext

You are going to have your work cut out for you to find science that hasn't been bought against vaping (it doesn't exist). Especially when the most prestigious medical organisation in the world:

The Royal College of Physicians represents over 35000 doctors across the globe. Our mission is to promote the best health and healthcare for all. The Royal College of Physicians' new report, ‘Nicotine without smoke: tobacco harm reduction’, has concluded that e-cigarettes are likely to be beneficial to UK public health. Smokers can therefore be reassured and encouraged to use them, and the public can be reassured that e-cigarettes are much safer than smoking.
https://www.rcplondon.ac.uk/news/promote-e-cigarettes-widely-substitute-smoking-says-new-rcp-report

The researchers in question, who work for the John Hopkins School of Public Health, got 56 vapers to bring their personal vaporizer with them for testing. After doing extensive tests on the e-liquids and aerosol, both before and after use, they concluded that toxic metals such as arsenic, chromium, manganese, nickel, and lead were present after vaping. They even claimed that the most significant metal concentrations were observed in devices that had their coils changed more often. According to the researchers, this constitutes a serious concern, as excessive levels of these substances have been linked to many types of cancer, immune conditions and cardiovascular issues. The only problem is, these concentrations are far too low to be a cause for concern, according to Dr. Farsalinos.

The primary point made by Dr. Farsalinos in his rebuttal of this study is simply that the researchers failed to explain the context of these toxic substances, therefore making the results unnecessarily bombastic. He took to his Facebook page to answer the concerns of many vapers who asked him about the legitimacy of the toxic metals study. “The ‘significant amount’ of metals the authors reported they found were measured in ug/kg. In fact, they are so low that for some cases (chromium and lead) I calculated that you need to vape more than 100 ml per day in order to exceed the FDA limits for daily intake from inhalation medications.” He suggested that this happens because studies sometimes use concentration limits associated with constant intake, as opposed to just the breaths that include e-liquid vapor. According to Farsalinos, “humans take more than 17,000 breaths per day but only 400-600 puffs per day from an e-cigarette.” So when researchers calculations omit this fact, the results can appear drastically worse than they ought too.
https://www.churnmag.com/news/dr-farsalinos-discredits-toxic-metal-study-misleading/


The Corruption of Public Health
Government’s effort to suppress vaping—the most promising antismoking product ever created—is part of a broader scandal.
https://www.city-journal.org/html/corruption-public-health-15323.html
 
Last edited:

pit1209

TS Addict
see post #94 The John Hopkins School of Public Health received a $400,000 grant from the Robert Wood Johnson Foundation (was created by Johnson & Johnson) for the specific task of studying e-cigarettes.

Dollars vs. Ethics: Resisting the Influence of Big Pharma
https://www.caringfortheages.com/article/S1526-4114(17)30129-4/fulltext

You are going to have your work cut out for you to find science that hasn't been bought against vaping (it doesn't exist). Especially when the most prestigious medical organisation in the world:

The Royal College of Physicians represents over 35000 doctors across the globe. Our mission is to promote the best health and healthcare for all. The Royal College of Physicians' new report, ‘Nicotine without smoke: tobacco harm reduction’, has concluded that e-cigarettes are likely to be beneficial to UK public health. Smokers can therefore be reassured and encouraged to use them, and the public can be reassured that e-cigarettes are much safer than smoking.
https://www.rcplondon.ac.uk/news/promote-e-cigarettes-widely-substitute-smoking-says-new-rcp-report

The researchers in question, who work for the John Hopkins School of Public Health, got 56 vapers to bring their personal vaporizer with them for testing. After doing extensive tests on the e-liquids and aerosol, both before and after use, they concluded that toxic metals such as arsenic, chromium, manganese, nickel, and lead were present after vaping. They even claimed that the most significant metal concentrations were observed in devices that had their coils changed more often. According to the researchers, this constitutes a serious concern, as excessive levels of these substances have been linked to many types of cancer, immune conditions and cardiovascular issues. The only problem is, these concentrations are far too low to be a cause for concern, according to Dr. Farsalinos.

The primary point made by Dr. Farsalinos in his rebuttal of this study is simply that the researchers failed to explain the context of these toxic substances, therefore making the results unnecessarily bombastic. He took to his Facebook page to answer the concerns of many vapers who asked him about the legitimacy of the toxic metals study. “The ‘significant amount’ of metals the authors reported they found were measured in ug/kg. In fact, they are so low that for some cases (chromium and lead) I calculated that you need to vape more than 100 ml per day in order to exceed the FDA limits for daily intake from inhalation medications.” He suggested that this happens because studies sometimes use concentration limits associated with constant intake, as opposed to just the breaths that include e-liquid vapor. According to Farsalinos, “humans take more than 17,000 breaths per day but only 400-600 puffs per day from an e-cigarette.” So when researchers calculations omit this fact, the results can appear drastically worse than they ought too.
https://www.churnmag.com/news/dr-farsalinos-discredits-toxic-metal-study-misleading/


The Corruption of Public Health
Government’s effort to suppress vaping—the most promising antismoking product ever created—is part of a broader scandal.
https://www.city-journal.org/html/corruption-public-health-15323.html
LOL so based on all of that "info" you've got, the government, Public Health and many physicians have an agenda against people intoxicating themselves with a very addictive substance than can easily be targeted to the uninformed and young (like it has been, that's the reason of this article) and also stating that the science behind anything ill related against vaping has been bought or fabricated because common sense shows that inhaling an addictive and artificial substance not meant for anything else but to hook people into buying it is very healthy and worth defend.

You are stating on this thread that the companies who have invested billions and made billions to keep selling and making products using addictive substances are the good guys and doctors and scientist all over the world have been lying all this time. Yes, the same companies who sold you cigarettes and told you it was healthy 60 years ago are now the victims. Keep dreaming and vaping my friend, I wish you good health because I'm not going to reply to you anymore about this again.