FDA will ban all flavored vapes after news of deadly lung illness

SirDigby

TS Evangelist
Platinum
Nowadays, we live in a Orwellian horror show. Where media moguls go to the extent of not allowing you to make "mixed tapes", from music you've legitimately purchased. Where if you ask a woman you work with out on a date, she might have your job the next day. So, day by day, our civil rights are being eroded.
Bloody hell, I ain't ever heard of not being allowed to make mix tapes. I still buy CDs and have made them a few times for road trips and stuff, and then I also tend to drop them onto a Spotify playlist as well - generally you can still use them as 'fair use' you just can't copy and distribute for other people. I haven't heard any examples of anyone being prosecuted for it, but to be fair it's not something I pay close attention to.

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Cigarettes are however, are an evil which needs to be contained, since they drive up the health care costs of everyone, even non-smokers.

I quit smoking "cold turkey". With that said, my life style was conducive to being able to do that. Every other evil, drink, drugs, and other smokers, make it difficult to put the damned things down.

I believe that vaping is a reasonable alternative to cigarettes. The drugs that big pharma has offered for the purpose of "smoking cessation", are ineffective, and pretty much worthless, most notably bupropion and nicotine patches..Hell, I took up smoking a pipe in an effort to cut down on cigarettes, and it made me feel so good, I lit up a cigarette after I was done to enhance the experience.

I do feel compassion (not really, I'm pretty close to being a sociopath, albeit a non violent example), but vaping from what I"ve read, has a much lower risk factor.

Vaping products should be monitored by the FDA. and illegal uses of vaping paraphernalia, shouldn't have any effect on availability of approved product.

With all that said, we live in a culture where the sins of the few, are paid for by the many.

As soon as people get their heads straight that you can't put another safety gadget on every car in the world because of one person's death, or prohibit ecigarettes because of a minute percentage of casualties, the world will be a better place.

Is any of that likely to happen in our modern,"nobody is responsible for their own actions world"? Not bloody likely.
I'm very much of the mindset "you do you as long as you don't hurt anyone else", so I generally don't have a problem with cigarettes but they're so integrated into society like some pubs in the UK still have the cigarette smell even though indoor smoking was banned in the mid 2000s, and yeah they drive up the price of healthcare.

Vaping I do see as a reasonable alternative, much healthier than cigarettes but I think they need to be recognised as a lesser of two evils, not exactly healthier than quitting altogether... I'd say they need to be regulated like cigarettes (I think) are, but tbh that doesn't stop them from putting all sorts of crap into cigarettes so I don't think it would for vaping either.

What I do think needs to happen with vaping is a regulation on the marketing and flavours because they all seem to be leaning very, very heavily on younger audiences which I think is really unethical as they're too easily influenced by marketing, peer pressure and social norms.

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captaincranky

TechSpot Addict
@Puiu I thought "tocopherol" was an alcojhol, and it is. Given its solvent properties (typical of all alcohols), and its anti oxidant properties, it's not too hard to imagine how people might have gotten the ides for its use in vaping fluids.

to·coph·er·ol
/təˈkäfərôl,təˈkäfəˌräl/
Learn to pronounce
noun
BIOCHEMISTRY
  1. any of several closely related compounds, found in wheat germ oil, egg yolk, and leafy vegetables, that collectively constitute vitamin E. They are fat-soluble alcohols with antioxidant properties, important in the stabilization of cell membranes.
With that being noted, nicotine is an extremely toxic substance (LD50 number somewhat uncertain), which was once used as an insecticide...:eek:
 

captaincranky

TechSpot Addict
Bloody hell, I ain't ever heard of not being allowed to make mix tapes. I still buy CDs and have made them a few times for road trips and stuff, and then I also tend to drop them onto a Spotify playlist as well - generally you can still use them as 'fair use' you just can't copy and distribute for other people. I haven't heard any examples of anyone being prosecuted for it, but to be fair it's not something I pay close attention to.
There was a court decision in the UK which banned mixed tapes from being made from iTunes (?) sources. Obviously it's highly unlikely that anyone would be prosecuted for doing so. But, the transcripts of the hearing were on the web, (and possibly still are), whereby the attorney (solicitor ?), for media interests walked into the courtroom and flatly stated, "we're losing money if the court allows this practice to continue", .and the judge bent over for him and , OK we'll ban this practice while we think about a bit longer".

https://www.businessinsider.com/using-itunes-to-make-a-mixtape-cd-became-illegal-in-the-uk-this-summer-and-no-one-noticed-2015-8 (You can't read this page with an ad blocked, which I found out the hard way). There is a link for the entire transcript at the end of the article.

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BWhat I do think needs to happen with vaping is a regulation on the marketing and flavours because they all seem to be leaning very, very heavily on younger audiences which I think is really unethical as they're too easily influenced by marketing, peer pressure and social norms.
[/SIZE] As I said earlier, when I was in my teens, a person of any age could buy a pack of fags. In the US, the marketing campaigns, (complete with brand specific merchandise), were pervasive, and targeted heavily toward the youth market.

It's fair to say the the vaping industry has benefited from, and piggybacked on, tobacco's wealth of experience in marketing

Since you're posting under the alias "@SirDigby", I made the leap to assume you're in the UK, and adjusted the idiomatic expressions accordingly. Of course we all know what can happen when we "assume" something...:laughing:[/LEFT]
 
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Trump only pretends to give a f**k. He's latching onto the current anti-vaping hysteria to improve his polling numbers, which are at present, abysmal.
One can only hope he doesn't get reelected but I fear the competition just isn't up to the task yet again.

Is there a worthy challenger to take him on and have a good chance of winning?
 

Capaill

TS Evangelist
I'm not in favour or against vaping (although my brother used it a while ago to quit smoking altogether), but this smells of cig industry shenanigans.
Exactly. I have a strong suspicion that the cigarette industry went to Trump (maybe even paid him to some secret offshore bank account) and encouraged him to attack the vaping industry. Who knows, maybe it was one of them that commissioned the story about the vaping deaths as part of their attack.
As has also been said, cigarettes kill more people than vaping. Also cigarettes kill more children than vaping (ok, I cannot prove that but I'm pretty sure it's more than 4). So why is vaping getting attacked with zero mention of cigarettes? Answer: Trump will do anything for whichever of his corporate buddies looks after him the best. That's the man America voted into power.
By all means, regulate vaping. But don't pretend it's worse than cigarettes.
 
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captaincranky

TechSpot Addict
One can only hope he doesn't get reelected but I fear the competition just isn't up to the task yet again.

Is there a worthy challenger to take him on and have a good chance of winning?
If Biden heads to GNC and stocks up on "Prevagen", he might stand a chance. Bernie Sanders makes sense at times, but I can't picture him a "presidential", not to mention all ther "pie in the sky health care promises". I honesty think Hillary Clinton's, "free college for everyone" sunk her chances from being out of touch with the budget and special interests


Julian Castro is a one trick pony. With his Hispanic surname, and his policy of "throw open the borders and tacitly do away with ICE being almost his entire platform, I think he's a racist, with limited appeal in mainstream politics.

Elizabeth Warren will be hammered mercilessly by Trump on the "Pocahontas" scandal..

Trump does have a withering effect on his competition. Any contender's chief attack should be on statistically proving that Trumps self proclaimed "achievements, are basically the rantings of a pathological liar and an egomaniac. His antagonizing of our allies can't be ignored. Something his trade war with China, ISN''T doing is bringing jobs back to the US. Something it will do, is force American to pay his tariffs.

While he isn't assisting ruining our environment, he's busy self aggrandizing his "accomplishments".

While he has many faults, lack of accomplishment, and a destructive impact on the planet as a whole, I can only surmise that the uber left wing will continue to shoot themselves in the foot, and be unable to withstand Trump's abrasive onslaught.

I think if someone is going to beat him, they have to drop the gloves, and deal with him on his own terms.

Something on the order of, "why hi Don, that's a lovely shade of orange face you're wearing today...

Face it though, a big portion of his base are evangelicals and right to life imbeciles, and they'll buy into whatever he tells them, out of pure stupidity.
 
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Skjorn

TS Guru
Im not too mad. There were plenty of kids back in high school who didn't smoke cause it seemed nasty but if it tasted like fruity pebbles and cinnamon rolls then Im sure some would have gotten hooked.

I think the real problem with it is the techniques people use. I've seen people sit there with a vape in their mouth inhaling and exhaling like they are hyperventilating. When I used to smoke full flavored cigarettes I tried a few vapes to help quit but every single one left a scratch in my throat I just couldn't cough away.

I'm so tired of hearing about this on every ****ing website. This is TechSpot. Talk about computers and other tech.

I'm stalking up on the flavors I like. Chump can suck it. I'm just so tired of this all.
STOCKING*...the way you said it sounds like you're silently hunting vape juice flavors you like.
 

Uncle Al

TS Evangelist
From reading the articles (and there are quite a few) on the issue of safety of Vaping, it isn't so much the number of deaths or even the number of illnesses but just how quickly these have developed. Add to that the false claims that Vaping is less dangerous (a groundless claim that has NO evidence to support it other than a lot of baseless opinions), that is eases cessations (also unproven), is being directly marketed to younger adults and children (ie: flavors like bubblegum, etc.), contains a number of unidentified chemicals (the makers won't reveal them claiming proprietary rights). and the ease to which modified chemistry can be loaded and used without ANY form of safety review or certification.

The bottom line remains that it is unsafe to take anything into your lungs other than air, oxygen, and a limited number of FDA approved drugs (created LONG before the big pharma wealth issues came about). Doing so poses a risk to the user and possible 2nd hand exposure (another claim that has yet to be validated). To argue against that simply identifies the individual as profoundly uninformed and/or personally ignorant of fact, and with alternative motives other than public safety.
 
There is a movement to eliminate smoking. In all forms. They don't even want you going through the motions of smoking because others see it and want to try it because they *think* it looks cool.

It doesn't matter if someone invents a 100% safe cigarette.
 

ShagnWagn

TS Guru
So, banning "flavors". So, "scented" vapors will now be marketed. Oddly enough, under the same flavors.

No sure why they are called "flavored" anyway. Do people lick these things or something?
 

Trillionsin

TS Evangelist
This to be one of the most ridiculous things. People have been poisoning themselves and killing themselves for centuries, it's their choice if they want to. All you have to do is put a warning label on it. DERPY America.. isnt that what they do for everything else?

Whenever I smoke these flavored things, I always seem to get this annoying little persistent cough... should be indicator enough for me. I stay away from them.
 

Skjorn

TS Guru
Typo indeed. Thanks for the grammar Nazi post. No for real I am gonna edit that, even though it won't matter since you pointed it out. I do know the difference, just to be clear.

But you know, now that I think of it, I really have been stalking flavors since they are freaking sold out nearly everywhere as all the shops clear their inventory with 35-40% off sales. So you could say what I said was factually correct anyway.
I read someone wrote "seam" for "seem" earlier. Better writing makes for easier reading. No one wants to read your posts over again because you misspelled something very basic.
 

wiyosaya

TS Evangelist
So vaping has been around for how long now 13-years? https://www.licensetovape.com/guide/beginner/history-of-vaping/
And how long did it take to figure out that smoking tobacco was exceptionally bad for health - maybe 1,700 (yes, that's seventeen-hundred) years.
https://www.cancercouncil.com.au/31899/uncategorized/a-brief-history-of-smoking/
Although I agree with @captaincranky that this is a fake move and Humpty Trumpty is pretending to do something to energize his polling numbers, it might actually be a wise move.
 

wiyosaya

TS Evangelist
Trump only pretends to give a f**k. He's latching onto the current anti-vaping hysteria to improve his polling numbers, which are at present, abysmal.
One can only hope he doesn't get reelected but I fear the competition just isn't up to the task yet again.

Is there a worthy challenger to take him on and have a good chance of winning?
IMO, anyone is a worthy challenger to feckless leader.
 

wiyosaya

TS Evangelist
There is a movement to eliminate smoking. In all forms. They don't even want you going through the motions of smoking because others see it and want to try it because they *think* it looks cool.

It doesn't matter if someone invents a 100% safe cigarette.
Maybe people could pretend they are smoking by sucking on a plastic straw in public. However, plastic straws are on their way to the plastic straw graveyard, too. :laughing:
 

wiyosaya

TS Evangelist
America and Trump at it again.
Well and truly the laughing stock of the planet.
Trump a laughing stock - I agree with that. IMO, its even worse. He has no clue. He probably needs an adviser to help him pi$$.

However, I, for one, as an American, really don't like being classified in the same ilk as an idi0t president.
 

WhoMe

TS Rookie
70,000 people die a year from opioids

480,000 people die a year from smoking

6 people died from vaping

My physics teacher always said that anything less than a 0.5% margin of error is usually scientifically negligible. Tens of millions people vape, a few hundred are having lung issues. What's the percentage on that? This is supid. I don't smoke or vape but this is absurd.

We also have decades of experience with pesticide related lung diseases, this new one is completely unknown and being associated with marijuana cartridges and the pesticides used to create counterfeit ones. The lung issues we are trying to associated with marijuana cartridges does not look anything like the pesticide diseases we have decades of experience with.

We're banning vaping after 6 deaths but keep cigarettes legal after nearly 500,000 yearly deaths....
Margin of error is used in studies such as showing the chance that smoking cigarettes causes cancer. Since there have been only a few deaths thus far there hasn't been time to do any long term studies. But on the surface since all the people who died and all those hospitalized with severe lung disease were vaping it seems to me that the margin of error is close to zero (0).
 

WhoMe

TS Rookie
Thank God they don’t treat my AR-15 rifles like Vapes !!!
If you watched the Democratic "debate" last evening then you heard Beto O'Rourke say that he will confiscate AR-15's if he becomes president. I don't recall hearing any of the other candidates go quite so far.
Those in the audience went wild over that. They were cheering and clapping and jumping up and down in agreement.
 

cliffordcooley

TS Redneck
For the record I'm not suggesting vaping should be banned. I'm suggesting it should be treated the same as any legalized smoking. Respect non-smokers with regulations that keep it out of their face. I personally don't care who chooses to contaminate their health. As long as it only effects them.

It is also my opinion. Whether you smoke or vape, you loose the right to talk about anyone's personal hygiene. Intentionally making yourself stink is worse than not dealing with nature. Though I guess that is why these flavors (which are being banned now) are so popular.
 
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captaincranky

TechSpot Addict
IMO, anyone is a worthy challenger to feckless leader.
But's that's not really the question. Regardless of who the Democratic party nominates, it's a given you're going to vote for them. The question, and paramount issue, is who can beat Trump in the national election. It's a slam dunk that you voted for Hillary, in spite of what your personal feelings toward her as a potential president might have been. But she lost anyway.

Something to consider for all those in the audience who think the Electoral College should be abolished, is that if it did its job as the framers intended, we wouldn't be stuck with the d*ck head we are now. He honestly isn't fit for the office.
 

captaincranky

TechSpot Addict
If you watched the Democratic "debate" last evening then you heard Beto O'Rourke say that he will confiscate AR-15's if he becomes president. I don't recall hearing any of the other candidates go quite so far....[ ]....
Not that this has anything to do with the statement you're quoting but, Beto O'Rourke is a loser, and a very long shot at getting the Democratic nomination. It has to do with him, "almost winning", in a heavily Republican district. A loss is still a loss, and a true superstar (read "centrist") Democrat might have pulled off a win..

BTW, "almost only counts in horseshoes and hand grenades", or at least so I've been told
 
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