Help me choose my gpu please

youngpalmtree

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Okay so I have a old pc but im trying to add a gpu but all I have is 240 watts and pci v 1.0 what is a good low budget card that I can use with these
 

neeyik

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Modern cards can sometimes be twitchy un 1.0 slots (generally fine in 1.1), so bear this is mind. Also, a 250 W PSU can probably only supply a maximum of 16A in total on the +12V line. Depending on your PC already has, adding a graphics card may demand too much of the PSU.

So you really need the lowest power GPU you can get but the lower the power, the weaker the performance. Therefore while a GeForce GT 1030 should be okay (it will only take 30W from the PCI Express slot - roughly 2.5A on the +12V line), it will only run games at low resolution and low graphics settings.
 
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youngpalmtree

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@neeyik I have a optical disk drive in my pc if I unplug it from the psu do you think that might give me a bit more power to run a better gpu and is there a way I can see how much power components in my pc take up.
 

neeyik

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It will only use a handful of watts, less than 5W, even when running so it won’t free up much. The same will be true of hard drives and the system RAM. The majority of the power consumption of a computer is the CPU and graphics card - what processor does the system have?
 

youngpalmtree

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It will only use a handful of watts, less than 5W, even when running so it won’t free up much. The same will be true of hard drives and the system RAM. The majority of the power consumption of a computer is the CPU and graphics card - what processor does the system have?
btw do you recommend for me to buy a gt 1030 off of ali baba because they have cheaper prices
 

neeyik

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It has an i3 3320 @ 3.30 GHz
If that's the CPU you have, then your motherboard has a PCI Express v2.0 slot, not a v1.0 one, so a GeForce GT 1030 will work without problems. The i3 3320 only consumes 55W, so theoretically with that graphics card, the system should be around 200W (at maximum load).

btw do you recommend for me to buy a gt 1030 off of ali baba because they have cheaper prices
No. Any place offering something that's 40 to 60% cheaper than usual prices (judged from a quick trawl through Alibaba) should be avoided - a lot of them are ex-mining cards.

If the GeForce GT 1030 is a little too expensive, then try some older models:


A GeForce GT 210 is also a 30W graphics card, but it is massively slow compared to a GT 1030, though.


This GeForce GT 710 is better than the 210 and only 20W - but still a lot slower than the 1030.


The Radeon 5450 is also just 20W but like the GT 210 and 710, it's desperately slow when it comes to gaming. In fact, all 3 would no good in today's games so if you're wanting to add a graphics card to your PC in order to play the latest titles (or anything from the past 5 years), then you really need to stick with the 1030.
 
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youngpalmtree

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If that's the CPU you have, then your motherboard has a PCI Express v2.0 slot, not a v1.0 one, so a GeForce GT 1030 will work without problems. The i3 3320 only consumes 55W, so theoretically with that graphics card, the system should be around 200W (at maximum load).


No. Any place offering something that's 40 to 60% cheaper than usual prices (judged from a quick trawl through Alibaba) should be avoided - a lot of them are ex-mining cards.

If the GeForce GT 1030 is a little too expensive, then try some older models:


A GeForce GT 210 is also a 30W graphics card, but it is massively slow compared to a GT 1030, though.


This GeForce GT 710 is better than the 210 and only 20W - but still a lot slower than the 1030.


The Radeon 5450 is also just 20W but like the GT 210 and 710, it's desperately slow when it comes to gaming. In fact, all 3 would no good in today's games so if you're wanting to add a graphics card to your PC in order to play the latest titles (or anything from the past 5 years), then you really need to stick with the 1030.
alright what about a gt 730 is that still slow
 

neeyik

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Unfortunately, yes - it is a lot better than the 210, but the GT 710 is virtually half the chip the 1030 is.

lowpowernvgpu.png

Power and performance go pretty much hand-in-hand, when it comes to graphics cards. The above table compares the 3 low power Nvidia cards we've been discussing, and includes Nvidia's most basic model from their latest Turing range.

You can clearly see how much better the GT 1030 is, just on the basis of theoretical maximum values. If you are planning to game with a new graphics card, you really shouldn't be considering the GT 710.

It's worth noting that there are 2 versions of the GT 1030 available: the original one with GDDR5 memory and a more recent one with DDR4. Avoid the latter like the plague, as it's absolutely useless.
 

youngpalmtree

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Unfortunately, yes - it is a lot better than the 210, but the GT 710 is virtually half the chip the 1030 is.

View attachment 86690

Power and performance go pretty much hand-in-hand, when it comes to graphics cards. The above table compares the 3 low power Nvidia cards we've been discussing, and includes Nvidia's most basic model from their latest Turing range.

You can clearly see how much better the GT 1030 is, just on the basis of theoretical maximum values. If you are planning to game with a new graphics card, you really shouldn't be considering the GT 710.

It's worth noting that there are 2 versions of the GT 1030 available: the original one with GDDR5 memory and a more recent one with DDR4. Avoid the latter like the plague, as it's absolutely useless.
I found a good deal for a gtx 560 ti I know its probably not that good but im on a budget lol but will I get a good fps count with that card and I probably will just buy a new psu
 

neeyik

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You'll absolutely need a new PSU - that's a 170W graphics card. Your current PSU will need to be replaced with at least a 400W one.

More importantly, though, the GTX 560 Ti is a 9 year old design, and while pretty reasonable for its time, the old Fermi architecture the GPU uses will struggle badly with newer games. To understand this, take a look at these two 3DMark scores, using the Night Raid test:

CPU: Core i7-9700K
GPU: integrated Intel UHD 630

CPU: Core i7-8700K
GPU: GeForce GTX 560 Ti


You can see that the 560 Ti is essentially twice as fast as the integrated GPU. This might be totally expected and one might think that this is perfectly fine. Now look at another score, this time with the same CPU but using the GeForce GT 1030:


Here we can see that, in this particular test, the 1030 is between 30% and 60% faster than the 560 Ti. The Night Raid benchmark uses DirectX 12 but it's designed for integrated GPUs and basic PC systems, such as laptops, so it's not a very demanding test.

I fully appreciate the important of sticking to a budget, but in this case, the cost of the old card plus a new PSU, just isn't worth it.
 

youngpalmtree

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You'll absolutely need a new PSU - that's a 170W graphics card. Your current PSU will need to be replaced with at least a 400W one.

More importantly, though, the GTX 560 Ti is a 9 year old design, and while pretty reasonable for its time, the old Fermi architecture the GPU uses will struggle badly with newer games. To understand this, take a look at these two 3DMark scores, using the Night Raid test:

CPU: Core i7-9700K
GPU: integrated Intel UHD 630

CPU: Core i7-8700K
GPU: GeForce GTX 560 Ti


You can see that the 560 Ti is essentially twice as fast as the integrated GPU. This might be totally expected and one might think that this is perfectly fine. Now look at another score, this time with the same CPU but using the GeForce GT 1030:


Here we can see that, in this particular test, the 1030 is between 30% and 60% faster than the 560 Ti. The Night Raid benchmark uses DirectX 12 but it's designed for integrated GPUs and basic PC systems, such as laptops, so it's not a very demanding test.

I fully appreciate the important of sticking to a budget, but in this case, the cost of the old card plus a new PSU, just isn't worth it.
my sister said she would be able to buy me a psu. so do you think a gtx 560 ti will be a better deal matched with my processor and 8 gb of memory if not where do you recommend me to go buy a gt 1030 because I really cant think of anything besides ebay and amazon
 

neeyik

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It comes down to what you plan on using the graphics card for. If it's gaming, I just think you're going to be somewhat disappointed. On the other hand, if it's support using more monitors, then it will be fine.

GT 1030s can be bought almost anywhere, but they're rarely below $75 so it's unlikely you'd find one much lower than that - if you do, be very wary of it.
 

youngpalmtree

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It comes down to what you plan on using the graphics card for. If it's gaming, I just think you're going to be somewhat disappointed. On the other hand, if it's support using more monitors, then it will be fine.

GT 1030s can be bought almost anywhere, but they're rarely below $75 so it's unlikely you'd find one much lower than that - if you do, be very wary of it.
you convinced me ill just buy a gt 1030 I found one on amazon for $88 do you think thats good
 

cliffordcooley

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The card or the cost? I think both the card and value is good. But like neeyik suggested you would definitely be disappointed in performance, with a lessor card if you plan on gaming.
 

neeyik

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It's all about expectations, within the budget constraint. The GT 1030 is a good 30W $80 graphics card, and at low resolutions, it performs quite well in some newer games:


And if you turn down the graphics settings in the game to their lowest values, it holds up pretty well in other games:


(On a side note, do not get the DDR4 version!). However, some of the latest titles are just too demanding for it:


Yes, there are graphics cards that will perform a lot better than it, but (1) they cost more and (2) they will use a lot more power. Two such examples would be the GeForce GTX 1050 Ti and the Radeon RX 570:


However, they are twice the price of the GT 1030 and they're 75W and 120W cards respectively - the Radeon is especially good for its price, but it will absolutely require a new, decent PSU.

Of course, you could consider a 2nd hand RX 580, if your sister is willing to buy a new PSU, and there are plenty to choose from on eBay and for a similar price to a new GT 1030. However, a lot of them have been used in cryptomining computers and while that's not an immediate problem, it does mean that they will have been used heavily.

So if you want to keep the current PSU, the security of getting a brand new product with a warranty, and keep in budget, then the only option is the GT 1030. If you're willing to replace the PSU, but retain the budget and security, then it's still only the 1030.

But if the budget can then be doubled, along with getting a new PSU, then a brand new RX 580 is a great choice. If the budget can't be doubled, but a new PSU is a certainty, then a 2nd hand 580 is also a good option - but you won't have the security of a decent warranty or the ability to return it, if it's faulty.
 

youngpalmtree

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It's all about expectations, within the budget constraint. The GT 1030 is a good 30W $80 graphics card, and at low resolutions, it performs quite well in some newer games:


And if you turn down the graphics settings in the game to their lowest values, it holds up pretty well in other games:


(On a side note, do not get the DDR4 version!). However, some of the latest titles are just too demanding for it:


Yes, there are graphics cards that will perform a lot better than it, but (1) they cost more and (2) they will use a lot more power. Two such examples would be the GeForce GTX 1050 Ti and the Radeon RX 570:


However, they are twice the price of the GT 1030 and they're 75W and 120W cards respectively - the Radeon is especially good for its price, but it will absolutely require a new, decent PSU.

Of course, you could consider a 2nd hand RX 580, if your sister is willing to buy a new PSU, and there are plenty to choose from on eBay and for a similar price to a new GT 1030. However, a lot of them have been used in cryptomining computers and while that's not an immediate problem, it does mean that they will have been used heavily.

So if you want to keep the current PSU, the security of getting a brand new product with a warranty, and keep in budget, then the only option is the GT 1030. If you're willing to replace the PSU, but retain the budget and security, then it's still only the 1030.

But if the budget can then be doubled, along with getting a new PSU, then a brand new RX 580 is a great choice. If the budget can't be doubled, but a new PSU is a certainty, then a 2nd hand 580 is also a good option - but you won't have the security of a decent warranty or the ability to return it, if it's faulty.
Ok so I have a limit of $120 do you think that that is enough for a psu and a rx 580 or should I just buy a 1030. I also am thinking about getting a better cpu but I cant figure out the comatapility so here is my motherboard can you tell me what a better cpu than the one I already have will fit and I would like it to be below $70. also I am probably going to buy a new psu
 

youngpalmtree

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It's all about expectations, within the budget constraint. The GT 1030 is a good 30W $80 graphics card, and at low resolutions, it performs quite well in some newer games:


And if you turn down the graphics settings in the game to their lowest values, it holds up pretty well in other games:


(On a side note, do not get the DDR4 version!). However, some of the latest titles are just too demanding for it:


Yes, there are graphics cards that will perform a lot better than it, but (1) they cost more and (2) they will use a lot more power. Two such examples would be the GeForce GTX 1050 Ti and the Radeon RX 570:


However, they are twice the price of the GT 1030 and they're 75W and 120W cards respectively - the Radeon is especially good for its price, but it will absolutely require a new, decent PSU.

Of course, you could consider a 2nd hand RX 580, if your sister is willing to buy a new PSU, and there are plenty to choose from on eBay and for a similar price to a new GT 1030. However, a lot of them have been used in cryptomining computers and while that's not an immediate problem, it does mean that they will have been used heavily.

So if you want to keep the current PSU, the security of getting a brand new product with a warranty, and keep in budget, then the only option is the GT 1030. If you're willing to replace the PSU, but retain the budget and security, then it's still only the 1030.

But if the budget can then be doubled, along with getting a new PSU, then a brand new RX 580 is a great choice. If the budget can't be doubled, but a new PSU is a certainty, then a 2nd hand 580 is also a good option - but you won't have the security of a decent warranty or the ability to return it, if it's faulty.
I forgot to put my motherboard. hp compaq pro 4300 sff motherboard
 

neeyik

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Unfortunately HP use a proprietary PSU in the Compact Pro 4300, as you can see in this document:


I don't know what the chances are of finding a higher wattage version of that particular design, but I don't think they'll be good - in fact, I suspect they just don't exist. The internal case structure is unique to HP and the PSU is designed specifically for that shape.

The small form factor of case also means you have to use a low profile graphics card, so that leaves out the RX 580. Fortunately you can get low profile GT 1030s:


As for the CPU, the motherboard uses the Intel H31 chipset, which can take up to a Core i7-3770S but you won't find a good 2nd hand one for $70. For that budget, you're looking at a Core i5-3570S:


You specifically want the S version as it is only 65W - 10W more than your current i3-3220. It will be better than the 3220 but not by a huge amount.
 

youngpalmtree

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Unfortunately HP use a proprietary PSU in the Compact Pro 4300, as you can see in this document:


I don't know what the chances are of finding a higher wattage version of that particular design, but I don't think they'll be good - in fact, I suspect they just don't exist. The internal case structure is unique to HP and the PSU is designed specifically for that shape.

The small form factor of case also means you have to use a low profile graphics card, so that leaves out the RX 580. Fortunately you can get low profile GT 1030s:


As for the CPU, the motherboard uses the Intel H31 chipset, which can take up to a Core i7-3770S but you won't find a good 2nd hand one for $70. For that budget, you're looking at a Core i5-3570S:


You specifically want the S version as it is only 65W - 10W more than your current i3-3220. It will be better than the 3220 but not by a huge amount.
I guess ill just keep the same cpu but I thought about the gtx 1050 ti do you think I have enough power for that and if im suppose to use a low profile 1050 if it works out?
 

neeyik

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The problem with the 1050 (and it’s definitely better than the 1030) is that it’s a 75W card. That would absolutely require a new PSU.

However, f you check this HP document again, you’ll see that they only offered a small range of graphics cards when they originally released that computer:


Having checked those out, none of them are over 20W, which is suspiciously low. This leads me to suspect that HP have limited the PCI Express slot to the optional 25W setting, which is why the PSU is only 240W.

The Compact Pro 4300 was only designed to be an office desktop and the optional graphics cards were included to expanded the number of monitors that could used.

Although the GT 1030 is 30W, it’s still 5W more, which equates to 0.4A on the 12V line it uses. If the slot is limited to 25W, then GT 1030 will probably work but won’t be able to reach its full performance.

I should have noticed this issue before - many apologies for that.
 

youngpalmtree

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The problem with the 1050 (and it’s definitely better than the 1030) is that it’s a 75W card. That would absolutely require a new PSU.

However, f you check this HP document again, you’ll see that they only offered a small range of graphics cards when they originally released that computer:


Having checked those out, none of them are over 20W, which is suspiciously low. This leads me to suspect that HP have limited the PCI Express slot to the optional 25W setting, which is why the PSU is only 240W.

The Compact Pro 4300 was only designed to be an office desktop and the optional graphics cards were included to expanded the number of monitors that could used.

Although the GT 1030 is 30W, it’s still 5W more, which equates to 0.4A on the 12V line it uses. If the slot is limited to 25W, then GT 1030 will probably work but won’t be able to reach its full performance.

I should have noticed this issue before - many apologies for that.
No its alright, what do you recommend I do now
 

neeyik

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Here are your options, as I see it:

(1) Don't buy a graphics card and just stick with the HD Graphics 2500 chip, that's built into your CPU.

(2) Buy a new GT 1030 and take the risk that it might not work, due to the power restrictions. If it works - great! If not, you've just wasted $80.

(3) Buy the DDR4 version of the GT 1030 as it's only 20W, so won't be affected by the power limit. It is, however, the worst graphics card we've seen since... well, since ever.

(4) Trawl the likes of eBay for a 2nd hand AMD Radeon HD 7450 (the best out of the list of cards in that HP document). They vary a lot in price, but can be picked up for less than $20. However, it no more powerful than the Intel 2500.

(5) Buy a new-old graphics card, I.e. one that was originally released many years ago, but the product will be new. We need one that's still under the 25W limit, so the best choice here would be the Nvidia GeForce GT 720 - only 19W and was released in 2014, so not super old.

To see how those options compare, check out these 3DMark Fire Strike test scores - all done using an Intel Core i3-3220 CPU but using the different graphics cards mentioned above:


Just look at the results in the graphics tests:

GT 1030 = 17.1 to 19 fps
GT 1030 (DDR4) = 7.5 to 9.2 fps
GT 720 = 2.9 to 3.1 fps
Intel 2500 = 1.6 to 1.8 fps
HD 7450 = 1.6 fps

Now the Fire Strike test is very demanding for GPUs like these, so worry less about the actual performance, and more on the relative differences. The HD 7450 is clearly not worth buying, so we can ignore this option - why spend on money on something that won't actually be of any benefit to you.

The GT 720 is barely twice as fast as the Intel 2500 and while 'twice as fast' might sound great, it's not very cheap for something this slow - average new prices for it are around $40. It doesn't strike me as being a very encouraging option.

The GT 1030 (DDR4) is 5 times faster than the Intel 2500 which sounds great, but they sell for nearly the same price as the standard GT 1030, which is twice as fast again. So the 1030 DDR4 isn't a valid choice either.

So we're back to the GT 1030 again and we're stuck with the power issue. My gut feeling suggests that it is more likely to be okay rather than a complete failure - yes the motherboard will only supply a maximum of 25W to it, but modern graphics cards regulate their power consumption anyway.

That said, I'd think very carefully about laying down $80 for something that may not work - if you know that the vendor would be willing to take it back and refund you if doesn't, then there would be no harm in trying.
 

youngpalmtree

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Here are your options, as I see it:

(1) Don't buy a graphics card and just stick with the HD Graphics 2500 chip, that's built into your CPU.

(2) Buy a new GT 1030 and take the risk that it might not work, due to the power restrictions. If it works - great! If not, you've just wasted $80.

(3) Buy the DDR4 version of the GT 1030 as it's only 20W, so won't be affected by the power limit. It is, however, the worst graphics card we've seen since... well, since ever.

(4) Trawl the likes of eBay for a 2nd hand AMD Radeon HD 7450 (the best out of the list of cards in that HP document). They vary a lot in price, but can be picked up for less than $20. However, it no more powerful than the Intel 2500.

(5) Buy a new-old graphics card, I.e. one that was originally released many years ago, but the product will be new. We need one that's still under the 25W limit, so the best choice here would be the Nvidia GeForce GT 720 - only 19W and was released in 2014, so not super old.

To see how those options compare, check out these 3DMark Fire Strike test scores - all done using an Intel Core i3-3220 CPU but using the different graphics cards mentioned above:


Just look at the results in the graphics tests:

GT 1030 = 17.1 to 19 fps
GT 1030 (DDR4) = 7.5 to 9.2 fps
GT 720 = 2.9 to 3.1 fps
Intel 2500 = 1.6 to 1.8 fps
HD 7450 = 1.6 fps

Now the Fire Strike test is very demanding for GPUs like these, so worry less about the actual performance, and more on the relative differences. The HD 7450 is clearly not worth buying, so we can ignore this option - why spend on money on something that won't actually be of any benefit to you.

The GT 720 is barely twice as fast as the Intel 2500 and while 'twice as fast' might sound great, it's not very cheap for something this slow - average new prices for it are around $40. It doesn't strike me as being a very encouraging option.

The GT 1030 (DDR4) is 5 times faster than the Intel 2500 which sounds great, but they sell for nearly the same price as the standard GT 1030, which is twice as fast again. So the 1030 DDR4 isn't a valid choice either.

So we're back to the GT 1030 again and we're stuck with the power issue. My gut feeling suggests that it is more likely to be okay rather than a complete failure - yes the motherboard will only supply a maximum of 25W to it, but modern graphics cards regulate their power consumption anyway.

That said, I'd think very carefully about laying down $80 for something that may not work - if you know that the vendor would be willing to take it back and refund you if doesn't, then there would be no harm in trying.
I will probably just wait a couple more months and save up more money then build a whole new pc I'll get back to you when I have enough money to build a new pc
 

neeyik

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That's probably the best way forward. There comes a point, in upgrading PCs, that too many compromises have to be made in order to make one thing work, and I think in this case, you've got it right.

Just so you know what kind of money you should ideally save up for, a new PC will need the following:

  • CPU
  • Motherboard
  • RAM
  • Graphics card
  • PSU
  • Case

The last one is absolutely necessary, but if your current one is very small, then it will restrict your options.