Squid Surprise
Posts: 7,760 +8,035
Which is why we should be rejoicing that China - a dictatorship that doesn’t care about the lives of its citizens - is taking the initiative in deploying these self-driving carsFirst, invoking use of ChatGPT is a distraction and subtle way to attempt to minimize and discredit the point from the outset. This isn’t an argument about whether tools exist; it’s about whether current autonomy claims hold up in reality. So take a long walk with your passive aggressive attitude.
Second, you’re right: the baseline isn’t competent human drivers. But that’s not a relevant comparison. A relevant comparison is what actually reduces harm in the real world, under real constraints, right now.
Quoting aggregate global death statistics doesn’t, under any circumstances, justify deploying immature systems into unstructured public environments. By that logic, any intervention that claims future improvement would be ethical regardless of present risk. That’s not how safety engineering works. Aviation, medicine, and nuclear power don’t get to “learn at scale” by killing people in public and calling it “progress.”
Your Waymo citation sidesteps several points:
1. Domain restriction:
Waymo operates in heavily geofenced, mapped, weather-limited, low-speed urban cores with constant remote oversight. That’s not “self-driving cars,” it’s a controlled sandbox. Success in this context does not remotely generalize to mixed traffic everywhere else.
2. Benchmark ambiguity:
“Human benchmarks” are statistical averages across wildly different roads, drivers, weather, and conditions. These don’t compare and are a perfect example of cherry-picking statistics to support the argument. Beating an average that includes drunk drivers, street racers, and distracted teens is a low bar—and not evidence these systems outperform competent human drivers in the vast majority of complex driving scenarios.
3. Failure asymmetry:
Human drivers fail idiosyncratically; autonomous systems fail systemically. When they get something wrong, they tend to get it wrong the same way, at scale, until patched. That’s a fundamentally different risk profile, and it’s why “miles driven” alone is an insufficient safety metric.
4. Congestion and operational harm:
Even if you grant marginal safety improvements in narrow domains, it doesn’t address the congestion, blocking, freezing, and human-intervention already observed. Safety isn’t just fatalities per mile; it’s system-level performance.
We know what works for human drivers. If we don’t implement it’s because it’s politically inconvenient, not technically impossible. Plenty of countries enforce licensing standards, traffic laws, and road designs do achieve far lower fatality rates—without beta-testing experimental autonomy on the public.
I’m simply arguing against ideology masquerading as inevitability as an excuse for inappropriate deployment. Automation belongs where it can be: constrained, predictable, verifiable, and failsafe.
Rail, ports, mines, warehouses, limited-route transit—great. Personal vehicles in open-ended human environments? Not yet, and not on the public’s body count.
Again, calling skepticism “vibes” is a passive aggressive side step. Why should the public bear the downside risk for a technology that primarily serves investors and balance sheets?
Slogans, selective stats, and “the future requires sacrifice” rhetoric isn’t progress—it’s marketing, with a tolerance for collateral damage, in the name of tech-bro profit.
For future reference, I’m only interested in substantive discussion about the article itself. Passive-aggressive opinions, snark, or meta commentary about tools instead of ideas isn’t insightful, or interesting.
Over time, the tech will improve - then we can use it in the rest of the world!