Intel is in a very bad place, and they need to admit it

[rsmith222]

Vega is a horrible example, it was a compute monster and a large reason nVidia created the 1080ti.

If you were an investor or a miner (or both) perhaps.

Having identical IPC to Fury X, especially after such a long wait, was a big failure for gaming.

 

[loki1944]

Intel still holds almost twice the market share right? Bit early to doomsday them https://www.cpubenchmark.net/market_share.html

 

[loki1944]

Vega is a horrible example, it was a compute monster and a large reason nVidia created the 1080ti. To this day, AMDs workstation cards are still based on Vega while their gaming GPUs are a completely different architecture.

And the thing about bulldozer is that it sold horribly, it was almost the end of the AMD. While there some unfortunate customers, anyone who didn't buy a 3770k at the time was a fool.

Now, I'd like pose a question. Does AMD even need a 4090 competitor? The 7900xtx is outselling the 4080 and the 4070ti, which is slower than than 7900xt, has cause the xt into a "blow MSRP situation". You can regularly find the 7900xt at $30-50 US below MSRP but they tend to sell out quick at that price.

Now, AMD has an interesting solution to 4090 that it could use if it so desired, it's chiplet design. It would be almost trivial for AMD to make a 4090 competitor but nVidia has already saturated the market with the high end and the sales volume likely isn't there.

But we are also left with absurd level "new old stock" on both sides. AMD nor nVidia has any inclination to make lower end cards or drop prices until their old stock has moved. And there is A LOT of it left to move.

Going back to intel/AMD. Nothing could be worse for the industry than Intel failing to make the AMD fanbois happy. We are not these companies friends, we no longer "customers" we are "consumers" and never forget that

Vega was relatively anemic for gaming though; so on that side of it they sucked hard vs Nvidia.

 

[Paul Dougherty]

It's almost like buying back tens of billions of dollars of their stock instead of investing in their process nodes and production capacity was only good for the stock price (and CEO bonuses) and less good for remaining competitive in the industry. Well, at least they're getting tens of billions in tax payer money to catch up.

 

[Benchsalyst]

Me too.

There's a YouTube channel that I sometimes watch that analyzes the issues that Intel is in. He basically thinks that many of Intel's problems are rooted in their inability to hit their promised release dates. He also believes that Intel's product stack and R&D is spread too thin.

View attachment 88862
Let's look at this for instance...

Intel has to develop and manufacture as many as six different core types for their product stack. Whereas with AMD, oh... they have only four types, two CPU core types and two IOD chips, and they all can be mixed and matched together to create their entire product stack quite easily whereas with Intel they can't do that; everything is still very much monolithic in nature when it comes to their chips.

AMD doesnt need more cz a 8 cores as 7700 X is better than a 14 cores as 13600 K in multitasks .

 

[Benchsalyst]

Jim Keller , developer of Athlon K8 came to intel into 2018, left into 2020 . As he worked on Ryzen, it is much possible that 13rd generation of intel processors, were better thxs to Jim Keller informations about Ryzen.
Maybe he is him that told to intel how to make cores works togather but .... With more cores , lul !

 

[Todd Sauve]

Any company that gets as big as Intel becomes like the federal government--huge and unwieldy, with the right hand not even knowing what the left is doing. Thus Intel is crumbling, and they are a criminal organization in how they run the company anyway, having been successfully sued numerous times for anti-competitive behaviour. They need to crumble a LOT to pay for their transgressions against consumers.

 

[Benchsalyst]

I honestly think Intel is under valued right now. A lot of their money is tied up in ARC graphics right now and developing a GPU from scratch costs billions of dollars over many years.

And while their CPU sales are down this was entirely to be expected after posting record profits from covid. I say this as an AMD guy, the 13 series is a fantastic line of products but I don't see many people upgrading right now as we are entering into a recession.

On the server side, I haven't seen their performance numbers yet but if the 13 series is anything to on I'm confident it will be very competitive with epyc for single threaded work loads.

You just forgot the " lot of money" to pay clients to buy their products .

 

[Benchsalyst]

Intel still holds almost twice the market share right? Bit early to doomsday them https://www.cpubenchmark.net/market_share.html

Interesting .
Passmark site : Awards and Acknowledgements WINTEL .
Even if this could be true remember benchmarks intel cheats

 

[Benchsalyst]

Intel still holds almost twice the market share right? Bit early to doomsday them https://www.cpubenchmark.net/market_share.html

Another sourcess : https://www.lemondeinformatique.fr/...r-un-marche-des-serveurs-en-baisse-89555.html
Ok its in french but : " Sur le marché des serveurs, la part de marché totale d'AMD est passée de 10,7% au début de 2022 à 17,6% à la fin de l'année, tandis qu'Intel a chuté de 89,3% au début de l'année à 82,4% "
= " In the server market, AMD's total market share fell from 10.7% at the start of 2022 to 17.6% at the end of the year, while Intel fell 89.3% in start of the year at 82.4% "
Passmark ?

 

[yRaz]

You just forgot the " lot of money" to pay clients to buy their products .

R&D is a cost of doing business. TSMC is doing R&D on tech that they don't expect to see a return on investment for 30 years

 

[makinote]

The ammount of datacenter software being made ARM compatible is growing everyday. That is the beginning of the end.

 

[trparky]

AMD doesnt need more cz a 8 cores as 7700 X is better than a 14 cores as 13600 K in multitasks .

Can you rephrase that? I have no idea what the hell you said.

 

[danbfree]

In full disclosure, I'm a contractor for them in data center CPU development and will be losing my job shortly, but have been following them for many years. Honestly they were stuck on 10nm for too long but are actually well into "catch up mode" now manufacturing-wise. I think this "doom and gloom" can mainly be attributed to Wall Street expectations (and them catering to demand for an "instant" response), the temporarily weak demand for PC's and recession fears.

We're seeing how strong their new tile architecture is with 13th gen stuff, just give them a year and things will likely be looking far rosier for them. Especially if they can contain their panic, continue to stay on track with their development of new manufacturing processes and not drive away the dedicated employees who have helped start to pull them out of the mess the 10nm difficulties began in the first place.

 

[danbfree]

Intel needs to come to the realization that they need to swallow their pride and go with a chiplet design much like AMD. Only then will they be able to more easily hit target dates, reduce product manufacturing complexity, and reduce costs.

Need to go with a chiplet design? They are already there in the already released 13th gen desktop and Sapphire Rapids Xeon processors. Being stuck on 10nm for so long set them back, but they have been on the rebound from that for a good year now, they just need to not panic and keep focusing on continuing the manufacturing catch up phase they are on so that all these new fabs they are building will have competitive products to make for themselves and outside contracts as soon as they open.

 

[MudButt]

I don't feel sorry for Intel, they had years to prepare for AMD taking over CPU market share in the private market and also for server and professional applications. I mean one can look at the stock market and the Value of AMD stock starting to rise in 2018 when customer interest in the Ryzen chips increases all the way into 2020 when the stock continues to spike and eventually passes Intel in July of 2020, needless to say Intel stock (high of $64 per share) has never reached a valuation as high as AMD (at $155). That kind of vein behavior of waiving the competition by Intel is going to continue and hurt them into the future. AMD is growing, financially and in market share, they have the cash needed for development, will continue to develop a competitive product and have already earned major wins with customers abandoning the Intel bandwagon. On the professional front this is a disaster for Intel, it can take a decade to earn customers back and the 12th and 13th gen CPU's may have come too late as customer are seeing Intel as the brand who held back while AMD as the brand working to develop it's CPU's and still do remained budget conscious.

Although Intel has done an incredible job with 12th and 13th gen keeping them at play in both the private and professional markets, the upcoming AMD 3D chips could potentially be the strategy AMD has been working on all along to continue and disrupt Intel's ambition for supremacy in the CPU market.

 

[HardReset]

Although Intel has done an incredible job with 12th and 13th gen keeping them at play in both the private and professional markets, the upcoming AMD 3D chips could potentially be the strategy AMD has been working on all along to continue and disrupt Intel's ambition for supremacy in the CPU market.

There's nothing "incredible" on Intel's Alder Lake and Raptor Lake CPUs. AMD can match Intel's performance using around half power AND same time supporting AVX-512 that Intel abandoned, that's nothing to be proud of. Basically since Sandy Bridge Intel has just added more on existing designs because there are more transistor budget available. However that also means Intel cores are very power hungry. AMD on other hand designs new Zen-cores more or less from scratch and while that makes not so fast cores you would expect, power consumption stays low since there are not much leftovers from old designs.

 

[CybaGirl]

Thanks for your opinion, much appreciated.

But I will be sticking with Intel.
I was an AMD user many years ago but have since changed for a few reasons. Especially now that I am a gamer and streamer. Plus I know with Intel it's just plug and play. But with AMD (especially in the past) it's plug and pray.

 

[poohbear]

Lisa Su should become the new Intel CEO...change THAT ship around like she did with AMD. Oh the irony!

 

[trparky]

Lisa Su should become the new Intel CEO...change THAT ship around like she did with AMD. Oh the irony!

No, we need Lisa Su right where she is.