Intel's Core i9-12900K is up to 36 percent faster when you run it at maximum turbo power

Shadowboxer

Posts: 1,980   +1,571
Whoa, that's kinda high for a 5800x. My 5800x peaks at 82C running S-TUI or Stress-NG in Linux. Okay, okay, I'm running a Thermalright TRUE Spirit 140 Power cooler. It's rated for up to 360 watts. Still, I would never allow an expensive CPU to cruise in 91c territory.

Lots of people care about CPU power. Anybody who builds mini-itx or in space constrained cases will care. You can put a 5950x in an old A320 mobo with weak VRMs, and it will run fine. That's because Zen is so power efficient.

You're right about people pouring cold water on the new Intel CPUs. Intel has been receiving a thrashing for the last five years. AMD fans can afford to let them party for a while.

I'm happy because AMD will ramp up their time schedule. We may get Zen 4 and 5 way early.
Tbh 91 is rare, we had a warm summer and on a few occasions it would spike to 91. AMDs notes however claim the CPU is fine up to 90C. And the fans arent going ballistic so im not fussed. It averages about 70-80. But it still makes it hotter than any Intel CPU I have ever owned!

Right now ive just finished a long gaming session on Far Cry 6 with Minecraft running in the background and a movie on my second monitor and the highest it got was 86:
1635801323368.png

Funnily enough I think a lot of people will be pouring cold water on Intels new CPUs to cool them down. But they will do so happily knowing that theyl get better performance. These are enthusiast grade desktop CPUs. Power consumption or efficiency isnt a priority for the people who buy them. In fact if you are buying a K series CPU you are expecting to overclock it which throws efficiency out of the window!
 

Solace50

Posts: 16   +20
Whoa, that's kinda high for a 5800x. My 5800x peaks at 82C running S-TUI or Stress-NG in Linux. Okay, okay, I'm running a Thermalright TRUE Spirit 140 Power cooler. It's rated for up to 360 watts. Still, I would never allow an expensive CPU to cruise in 91c territory.

Lots of people care about CPU power. Anybody who builds mini-itx or in space constrained cases will care. You can put a 5950x in an old A320 mobo with weak VRMs, and it will run fine. That's because Zen is so power efficient.

You're right about people pouring cold water on the new Intel CPUs. Intel has been receiving a thrashing for the last five years. AMD fans can afford to let them party for a while.

I'm happy because AMD will ramp up their time schedule. We may get Zen 4 and 5 way early.
At least one person here has some common sense. If you had a 5900x you probably would be edging the 90c barrier and hitting it with a mild OC.

With a Noctua d15 in a Fractul 7 case barely cools the 5900x to not throttle hitting I think 120w consumption under load. God only knows what 330W of head to dissipate is going to require. I think the 12900k has a larger die but I highly doubt the bigger surface area is going to make that significant of a difference.

SFF are highly affected but its not even limited to those as a standard ATX setup will probably suffer on entry-mid range cooling solutions.
 

Shadowboxer

Posts: 1,980   +1,571
At least one person here has some common sense. If you had a 5900x you probably would be edging the 90c barrier and hitting it with a mild OC.

With a Noctua d15 in a Fractul 7 case barely cools the 5900x to not throttle hitting I think 120w consumption under load. God only knows what 330W of head to dissipate is going to require. I think the 12900k has a larger die but I highly doubt the bigger surface area is going to make that significant of a difference.

SFF are highly affected but its not even limited to those as a standard ATX setup will probably suffer on entry-mid range cooling solutions.
Im sure reviewers will let us know if its not possible to cool the chip to actually use it. But I highly doubt that. The temperature isnt reflective of how much heat its dissipating. You could heat up a pin to 100C or a 1kg metal bar to 100C and it takes a lot less to cool down the pin. Usually temps will be more affected by TIM, the design of the package and also the ambient room temperature. My 5800X is likely to register higher temperatures than most but that doesnt mean its using loads of power.

These are enthusiast parts, they come unlocked to let users overclock them. Efficiency isnt the name of the game here. Most people on these things will actually try to make them more inefficient but push them further. If you want power effiency you dont buy unlocked K series Intel or Ryzen 5000X series. You can argue a 5800X is more eifficient than a 12700K. But then a 5700G is more efficient than a 5800X and so on.
 

Guberian

Posts: 149   +204
... Except the 5800x is faster, at lower power, has no E-Cores, and came out a year ago, and the 11000 series was pretty crap.
Except the fact that the 12600k is a 5 tier while 5800x is a 7 tier part and thus will be a higher price.
 

Faelan

Posts: 125   +108
Bah. Don’t care. I’ve seen my 9900ks consume 280w during extreme stress testing. At that point my Noctua D15 is no longer able to keep up and the CPU begins to throttle. During actual use (pretty much gaming only), I rarely see it pull above 120w. Most of the time it’s in the 60-80w range with some dips into 80-100w territory if the game is decently multithreaded. It never throttles during heavy gaming. I suspect a 12900k would use less in those scenarios. I mean, the 9900ks is a 5GHz on all 8 cores CPU.
 

hahahanoobs

Posts: 4,018   +2,025
I feel as if this article is unnecessarily harsh. If you dont focus on the top end which prioritize perf and look at stock 12600k versus 11900k its actually pretty impressive. Using the top is not indicative of the entire architecture's qualitites.
The harshness goes hand in hand with the readership. It's a constant Us vs Them mentality that gets old fast. Tell us about the tech. Show your passion for the tech in the articles you write. No reply...
 

Watzupken

Posts: 427   +401
Lmao, no I am right and you are “false” actually. If this product outperforms the competition then it will sell well despite poor power consumption.

Also an extra 120-200w of power? Where did you get that number from? I hope not the TDP as it’s not representative. When tested 11th gen didn’t use anywhere near that much more on average.
I don't think this is true. I believe one of the reasons why companies are ditching Intel for ARM is because they are unhappy with the performance vs power of Intel chips. If power is not a problem, I don't see how useful it will be to use ARM for their custom SOC. There may be other drivers to use ARM, but I strongly believe lower power draw is one of the drivers. Intel's biggest target market is not the hardware enthusiast market, but the mobile/ laptop and enterprise/ DC, where high power consumption is not ideal.
 

Watzupken

Posts: 427   +401
The 5800X is quite notorious for producing a lot of heat, its been ignored by most of the mainstream tech press. But there are even people who have made videos about it on youtube. Im using a Noctua NHD-15 with Industrial Grade PPC2000 fans and im still hitting the 90s. Its usually from the PBO as it only seems to happen in heavy, lightly threaded workloads. It isnt a problem, its not sitting there at 90+ all the time, it just spikes to it and the CPU is designed to be fine up to 90C.

Sure people exist out there who need to save power. But in general, when it comes to sales of units, high power consumption wont make a dent. Price and performance are what defines sales in high performance desktop parts and always have. People who prioritise power consumption dont even look at them. You can get a Ryzen 4300GE entire system that uses about 30watts and performs most things people do on a modern PC. If power consumption is your biggest concern this is the sort of part you buy, not a 5900X lol.

The only reason power consumption is being talked about is because it looks like the only thing AMD will have left over Intel after the release of Alder lake. Most desktop PC enthusiasts do not care about power consumption.

5800X Temps:
I think there are also articles that shared why the 5800X is so hot. It doesn't matter how big is your cooler in this case because the 5800X is a tiny chiplet since it only uses a single CCX. With a boost power of 140+ W in such a small surface area, there is no way the heat can quickly and effectively get transferred to the cooler. The only remedy to this issue is the drop the TDC, EDC, PPC values. I got the most drop in thermals with the PPC value at around 120W. At stock with an Arctic Liquid Freezer II 360 cooler, it was hitting 90+ degrees and throttling when running Cinebench R20 load. Dropping PPC to 120W immediately see a 12 degrees drop, capping out at 78 degrees C. It does impact performance, but I observed a drop of 2% in performance as a result of the lower power limit.
 

Dimitrios

Posts: 1,006   +818
I think there are also articles that shared why the 5800X is so hot. It doesn't matter how big is your cooler in this case because the 5800X is a tiny chiplet since it only uses a single CCX. With a boost power of 140+ W in such a small surface area, there is no way the heat can quickly and effectively get transferred to the cooler. The only remedy to this issue is the drop the TDC, EDC, PPC values. I got the most drop in thermals with the PPC value at around 120W. At stock with an Arctic Liquid Freezer II 360 cooler, it was hitting 90+ degrees and throttling when running Cinebench R20 load. Dropping PPC to 120W immediately see a 12 degrees drop, capping out at 78 degrees C. It does impact performance, but I observed a drop of 2% in performance as a result of the lower power limit.

Yup correct, I recall Guru3d or ExtremeTech had an article about the size of the surface where more is actually better and more can dissipate quicker. Correct me if I'm wrong but another way was to shave the thickness which help dissipate heat quicker.
 

Puiu

Posts: 5,188   +4,054
TechSpot Elite
These results still put the 12900k below the 5950X even with that huge power draw. The 12600K looks good though, let's just hope the 320$ price point holds after the initial batch (and maybe force the 5600x to drop in price to 270$ or lower).
 

Aryassen

Posts: 198   +230
Nobody buying a desktop cares about power consumption.
Hello, Nobody here :) I always cared about power consumption, and not because of the electricity bill (that would be silly in my use case scenatio), but because of the heat (to which the power used dissipates directly), which can be limiting frequencies, shorten lifetime of the product, and most importantly can be a noisy affair to cool silently. Yepp, there are gits like me, sorry :)

I always evaluate what it takes to cool a given CPU (or GPU, for that matter) in a relatively silent matter, and it is a factor for me. Not the only one, not necessarily the deciding one, but definitely an important one. Looking forward to reading real life, independent reviews of Alder lake models :)
 

Aryassen

Posts: 198   +230
Nobody buying a desktop cares about power consumption.
Sorry, one more thing: if nobody is interested in power consumption when shopping for desktop computers, why is Intel going into a power consumption centric direction with Alder Lake?

I mean seriously, this I don't understand: what is the point of adding a new type of power efficient cores to the CPU, on desktop??? The power saving will be negligible for a desktop PC, but it brings unneccessary complexity into the mix. The new microarchitecture of the big cores is a good, welcome and long overdue step, and that is what everyone is focussing on, but the small cores?...
 

Sausagemeat

Posts: 1,202   +1,060
Sorry, one more thing: if nobody is interested in power consumption when shopping for desktop computers, why is Intel going into a power consumption centric direction with Alder Lake?

I mean seriously, this I don't understand: what is the point of adding a new type of power efficient cores to the CPU, on desktop??? The power saving will be negligible for a desktop PC, but it brings unneccessary complexity into the mix. The new microarchitecture of the big cores is a good, welcome and long overdue step, and that is what everyone is focussing on, but the small cores?...
Nobody shopping for unlocked flagship CPUs is interested in power consumption. There are lots of other CPU models available that consume considerably less power. It’s like people who buy sports cars don’t prioritise fuel economy over speed and handling etc.

I imagine Intel is going for a hybrid model with efficiency cores for laptops as that’s what drives the market. But from what I gather the efficiency cores don’t just benefit power consumption.
 

Sausagemeat

Posts: 1,202   +1,060
Hello, Nobody here :) I always cared about power consumption, and not because of the electricity bill (that would be silly in my use case scenatio), but because of the heat (to which the power used dissipates directly), which can be limiting frequencies, shorten lifetime of the product, and most importantly can be a noisy affair to cool silently. Yepp, there are gits like me, sorry :)

I always evaluate what it takes to cool a given CPU (or GPU, for that matter) in a relatively silent matter, and it is a factor for me. Not the only one, not necessarily the deciding one, but definitely an important one. Looking forward to reading real life, independent reviews of Alder lake models :)
Don’t buy an unlocked flagship desktop CPU then. Have a look at the GE range or just the APUs. If power consumption is more important than performance the x series Ryzen and K series Intel are not things you should be considering at all.
 

Sausagemeat

Posts: 1,202   +1,060
I think there are also articles that shared why the 5800X is so hot. It doesn't matter how big is your cooler in this case because the 5800X is a tiny chiplet since it only uses a single CCX. With a boost power of 140+ W in such a small surface area, there is no way the heat can quickly and effectively get transferred to the cooler. The only remedy to this issue is the drop the TDC, EDC, PPC values. I got the most drop in thermals with the PPC value at around 120W. At stock with an Arctic Liquid Freezer II 360 cooler, it was hitting 90+ degrees and throttling when running Cinebench R20 load. Dropping PPC to 120W immediately see a 12 degrees drop, capping out at 78 degrees C. It does impact performance, but I observed a drop of 2% in performance as a result of the lower power limit.
90C on a 5800X is not an issue. It doesn’t need to be “fixed”. This is within the temperature range for the CPU and is operating as normal.
 

Aryassen

Posts: 198   +230
Don’t buy an unlocked flagship desktop CPU then. Have a look at the GE range or just the APUs. If power consumption is more important than performance the x series Ryzen and K series Intel are not things you should be considering at all.
This is the thing: power consumption is NOT more important than performance, but it IS important (as one of the factors), for me. I fine-tuned and/or overclocked all my processors from the beginning (starting from a 12 Mhz 286 - though heat was not much of an issue back then :) ), so it is not like I want something just "to get by": I want good, solid performance (maybe not top tier, but strong), just not at any cost (both literally and in terms of heat dissipation).

I think with Alder lake there should be a "sweet-spot" for power vs performance, and I also think it would be still solid enough to be meaningfully competitive. Only squeezing every last bit of performance out of it will probably turn it into a space heater...but hopefully that will be the territory for a maximalists minority, and "everyday users" will be able to get by just fine with a decent Noctua, still with good performance...really itching to see those reviews now :)
 

Squid Surprise

Posts: 4,536   +3,906
This is the thing: power consumption is NOT more important than performance, but it IS important (as one of the factors), for me. I fine-tuned and/or overclocked all my processors from the beginning (starting from a 12 Mhz 286 - though heat was not much of an issue back then :) ), so it is not like I want something just "to get by": I want good, solid performance (maybe not top tier, but strong), just not at any cost (both literally and in terms of heat dissipation).

I think with Alder lake there should be a "sweet-spot" for power vs performance, and I also think it would be still solid enough to be meaningfully competitive. Only squeezing every last bit of performance out of it will probably turn it into a space heater...but hopefully that will be the territory for a maximalists minority, and "everyday users" will be able to get by just fine with a decent Noctua, still with good performance...really itching to see those reviews now :)
If power consumption is important to you, why are you overclocking any CPUs?

The "sweet spot" is at stock (or in the case of the 5800, below stock)... and, as has been previously posted, if this is the case, don't buy flagship unlocked CPUs.

All we know is that this CPU will suck power - we don't know about heat - or how well the coolers that will be released for it handle it...

The only real issues with heat and power consumption are if they cause the CPU to throttle - and we won't know that until we have some "real" benchmarks.
 

yeeeeman

Posts: 451   +407
I feel as if this article is unnecessarily harsh. If you dont focus on the top end which prioritize perf and look at stock 12600k versus 11900k its actually pretty impressive. Using the top is not indicative of the entire architecture's qualitites.
Hardware Unboxed typical crap, no surprise really.
When 11th gen launched, they used a thumbnail for their YT video with a poop on the CPU.
Is that professionalism? I would say it is idiocy, but the guys running this site told me it is their opinion. Ok...
 

zaku49

Posts: 43   +44
So the new AMD ZEN 3 3D V-Cache Ryzen CPUs come out in February, you don't need a new board or RAM $$, it's probably going to be faster than these for sure, they're being mass produced right now. It'd be smarter to wait as they'll probably be cheaper and faster if you're a new builder or currently have an AMD board. It's supposed to be 15% faster than the 5900x in gaming.
 
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Sausagemeat

Posts: 1,202   +1,060
This is the thing: power consumption is NOT more important than performance, but it IS important (as one of the factors), for me. I fine-tuned and/or overclocked all my processors from the beginning (starting from a 12 Mhz 286 - though heat was not much of an issue back then :) ), so it is not like I want something just "to get by": I want good, solid performance (maybe not top tier, but strong), just not at any cost (both literally and in terms of heat dissipation).

I think with Alder lake there should be a "sweet-spot" for power vs performance, and I also think it would be still solid enough to be meaningfully competitive. Only squeezing every last bit of performance out of it will probably turn it into a space heater...but hopefully that will be the territory for a maximalists minority, and "everyday users" will be able to get by just fine with a decent Noctua, still with good performance...really itching to see those reviews now :)
If you aren’t “squeezing every last bit of performance out of it” you should not be considering a K series Intel part at least.

I’m almost certain that “everyday users” will be fine under a decent Noctua on the Intel part. You just won’t be able to overclock it to the max or it won’t boost quite as high. But it might not be the case, if so then trust me, reviewers will let us know.




So the new AMD ZEN 3 3D V-Cache Ryzen CPUs come out in February, you don't need a new board or RAM $$, it's probably going to be faster than these for sure, they're being mass produced right now. It'd be smarter to wait as they'll probably be cheaper and faster if you're a new builder or currently have an AMD board. It's supposed to be 15% faster than the 5900x in gaming.
I’m going to laugh like a pirate if Ryzen 6000 performs faster than Alder lake but uses more power.
 

Maxiking

Posts: 152   +169
Just a suggestion, if you do not own a piece of high-end hw or have no experience with it, don't comment so you don't look like a clown

240w is nothing to worry about, a cheap 90 USD 240mm AIO would cool it off without a problem, not like the cpu die is extremely small either.

We literally have GPUs consuming 350w+.

Not to mention, if you OC 5900x, it will consume 220w without a problem, an Oc'd 5950x up to 270w.

Seems like a lot of bois with 2600x here.
 

PEnnn

Posts: 658   +645
"accidentally posted...."

Ah yes, it's like "accidentally became pregnant".

The amount of Intel "accidental" leaks and posts is staggering (and TS is too willing to oblige)
... it's like almost those paid shills are working 24/7 to accidentally post dubious claims for the fanboys.