It's official: the FCC has killed net neutrality

ddferrari

TS Maniac
the 3 other anti-nn posters said the exact same thing and you obviously did not read those posts before jumping into this thread. You are nearly verbatim saying the exact same thing and I replied with examples of ISPs abusing the lack of regulation. You're a big boy and can read the other posts here, I'm not going to trout those out for the four time. It's not a question of if, they already have in the past pre-NN.
Ahh, so now I'm anti NN? Or did I just say that I wasn't going to act like a little old lady who worries about everything before it happens- like somehow your "worry vibes" are going to be heard by the universe. Maybe ISPs WILL do it again, maybe they WON'T. So either you think that somehow, worrying about it is actually going to help, or you have no control over your thoughts and emotions. Either way, it sucks to be you.

Go ahead and keep fearing the unknown- it sounds like you've got enough to cover all of us.
 
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Puiu

TS Evangelist
Ahh, so now I'm anti NN? Or did I just say that I wasn't going to act like a little old lady who worries about everything before it happens- like somehow your "worry vibes" are going to be heard by the universe. Maybe ISPs WILL do it again, maybe they WON'T. So either you think that somehow, worrying about it is actually going to help, or you have no control over your thoughts and emotions. Either way, it sucks to be you.

Go ahead and keep fearing the unknown- it sounds like you've got enough to cover all of us.
I don't get you. If you don't care then wtf are you doing here.
The whole "maybe ISPs" won't do it again is just an excuse without merit when you already know that they will do it. It won't happen overnight because that would just mean that the FCC will pretty much be forced to implement rules again, but when companies like Comcast are already removing things like "paid prioritisation" from their net neutrality pledge (and we know they've said multiple times that this is what they want to do, including in court when they sued) then why are you surprised for people calling out others like you for "not carrying enough".

The whole "let's wait and see" shtick some of the anti-NN people are using is just a big excuse because they can't possibly be 100% in agreement with what Ajit Pai is doing.

Are you also going to "wait and see" how ISPs are going to once again have hidden fees and won't be required to disclose them to you? Oh you didn't know about this little thing the FCC voted for when they took down NN because it was too "cumbersome" for the poor old ISPs? How many other things don't know about but still joined the conversation with such confidence?

Seriously, when you take a hit to the right cheek and turn the left one get hit again do you turn the right one again? What you are doing right now is even worse than that.
 
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Puiu

TS Evangelist
My goodness, someone's hyper-sensitive. If you want to start wringing your hands and pacing around the room over an issue that may or may not ever arise, go for it. Of course, your worry won't change a thing- other than your anxiety levels.

I'm not sure what "issues" you experienced before NN, but I haven't seen any change- either positive or negative- since it was created. So, if and when I see actual negative consequences, then I will choose to put energy into it. It's odd that you find a logical, rational viewpoint demeaning.

A discussion has to have two sides. Just because I'm not jumping on the Doomsday train doesn't mean I don't care. It means I disagree with your "Let's all panic now" approach, rather than my "Let's wait and see" approach. That's why I'm commenting.

"Worrying is like paying a debt you don't owe." - Mark Twain
I agree with you. But those who are saying why we are entering into this discussion are those who think free speach for them only. I have seen censoreship coming from those who don't want to hear someone's else opinion and use names or put them down. I am in agreement, I have seen nothing to worry about this until it is time to. But I have seen issues when we did have this 'Net Neutrality' when the UN was given the power to control the Internet. I was even attacked because I made a comment on this thread for the first time. When we are attacked, it makes me wonder if the real 'neutrality' is the neutrality of our freedom of speech.
These are quotes from one of those documents you provided. Care to explain them?

"Title II Order itself announced forbearance from ex ante price regulation, at the same time it imposed price regulation with its ban on paid prioritization arrangements, which mandated that ISPs charge edge providers a zero price. These threats to the ISP business model have been felt throughout financial markets."

"95.7 percent of Americans live in a census block that at least one ISP reports supplying Internet access at speeds of at least 25 Mbps down and 3 Mbps up"

These are just 2 things I've brought up to you in this post: https://www.techspot.com/community/topics/new-york-attorney-general-to-sue-following-net-neutrality-repeal.243113/#post-1655693
 
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Evernessince

地獄らしい人間動物園
Ahh, so now I'm anti NN? Or did I just say that I wasn't going to act like a little old lady who worries about everything before it happens- like somehow your "worry vibes" are going to be heard by the universe. Maybe ISPs WILL do it again, maybe they WON'T. So either you think that somehow, worrying about it is actually going to help, or you have no control over your thoughts and emotions. Either way, it sucks to be you.

Go ahead and keep fearing the unknown- it sounds like you've got enough to cover all of us.
LOL, and now he goes straw-man argument. Try to stay on topic next time.

"Go ahead and keep fearing the unknown"

Says the guy who doesn't look at the presented evidence of it already have happened....

Looks like you aren't even bothering to argue anymore, now you're just spitting rhetoric.
 

ddferrari

TS Maniac
I don't get you. If you don't care then wtf are you doing here.
The whole "maybe ISPs" won't do it again is just an excuse without merit when you already know that they will do it. It won't happen overnight because that would just mean that the FCC will pretty much be forced to implement rules again, but when companies like Comcast are already removing things like "paid prioritisation" from their net neutrality pledge (and we know they've said multiple times that this is what they want to do, including in court when they sued) then why are you surprised for people calling out others like you for "not carrying enough".

The whole "let's wait and see" shtick some of the anti-NN people are using is just a big excuse because they can't possibly be 100% in agreement with what Ajit Pai is doing.

Are you also going to "wait and see" how ISPs are going to once again have hidden fees and won't be required to disclose them to you? Oh you didn't know about this little thing the FCC voted for when they took down NN because it was too "cumbersome" for the poor old ISPs? How many other things don't know about but still joined the conversation with such confidence?

Seriously, when you take a hit to the right cheek and turn the left one get hit again do you turn the right one again? What you are doing right now is even worse than that.
Sorry troll, I'm outta food.
 

ddferrari

TS Maniac
LOL, and now he goes straw-man argument. Try to stay on topic next time.

"Go ahead and keep fearing the unknown"

Says the guy who doesn't look at the presented evidence of it already have happened....

Looks like you aren't even bothering to argue anymore, now you're just spitting rhetoric.
Like we agreed- you've chosen to panic and predict the future, and I have not. As I said to poo-ey, I'm out of troll snacks.
 

Evernessince

地獄らしい人間動物園
Like we agreed- you've chosen to panic and predict the future, and I have not. As I said to poo-ey, I'm out of troll snacks.
https://technical.ly/philly/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2014/05/wapo-netflix-comcast-graph.png

Clearly I'm panicking, even though I'm the only one proving my argument with data. Yes, let's all ignore that NN was put it place to stop shitty companies for doing bad stuff that was already happening.

Predict the future? No, I'm just don't stick my head in the sand and ignore what's already happened.
 

Puiu

TS Evangelist
Like we agreed- you've chosen to panic and predict the future, and I have not. As I said to poo-ey, I'm out of troll snacks.
It is what all flat earth believers also say when they are presented with facts and have all of their arguments destroyed. Sorry for not having any food to feed yourself anymore. We'll be fine, we have jobs.

Nobody is "predicting the future". We already know what will happen with 100% certainty. Ajit Pai has already spoken out in favor of paid prioritisation (aka fast lanes) and companies like Comcast have already removed this from their NN pledge which the FCC is saying that ISPs will still continue to follow (the mythical "promise" the ISP made).

We also know that they'll reintroduce hidden fees and other similar anti-consumer practises.

But hey, this all fine and dandy for you. You are very relaxed. It must be the lack of food. You don't have the energy to do anything about it like others are doing.
 
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Puiu

TS Evangelist
Buddy, I think it is time to simply laugh at these two and move on.
HA HA ha. So funny.
Yes let's ignore the elephant in the room because a few just don't want a better future. "We don't care so let's just laugh at those who do" - so sad.

All you guys are doing is ignoring all of the facts and hiding behind jokes.

Not to mention that it's not "those 2". We are the majority and you are in the minority.
 
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Puiu

TS Evangelist
That's where you are mistaken. The majority couldn't care less, and therefor haven't voiced their opinion either way.
That's where polls and research data comes into play. I've yet to see one poll that comes close to even 50%. Most are incredibly one sided in favor of NN.

Your argument that people don't care just isn't true. They care, but it is currently impossible or incredibly hard to do anything about it. Comments on FCC's website are a broken mess and senators are all paid off by lobbyists with deep pockets.

The FCC (more specifically Ajit Pai) already made multiple insulting comments about what the average Joe wants the FCC to do. The voting was done with total disregard of both the opinion of the vast majority of the americans and professionals in the industry (besides major ISPs ofc - FYI the small ISPs are also in favor of NN).
 
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cliffordcooley

TS Redneck
The voting was done with total disregard of both the opinion of the vast majority of the americans and professionals in the industry
I must have missed out on the date that polls were opened for coast to coast voting. And I'm positive the majority did as well. You will never sway my opinion of what Ajit Pai is doing as wrong.

https://www.techspot.com/community/topics/tech-companies-government-officials-and-others-vow-to-fight-for-net-neutrality.243112/#post-1655393
https://www.techspot.com/community/topics/tech-companies-government-officials-and-others-vow-to-fight-for-net-neutrality.243112/#post-1655583

I fully agree with what they had to say. And if you think about it, you might come to the same conclusion. You have blinders on and can't see that the introduction of NN had negative results. The only way I could possibly support NN is if, I lived in the city and had superb Internet. Well I don't live in the city and I barely have Internet at all much less superb. ISP's are intentionally not fixing or upgrading infrastructure because of this NN crap.
 

Evernessince

地獄らしい人間動物園
I must have missed out on the date that polls were opened for coast to coast voting. And I'm positive the majority did as well. You will never sway my opinion of what Ajit Pai is doing as wrong.

https://www.techspot.com/community/topics/tech-companies-government-officials-and-others-vow-to-fight-for-net-neutrality.243112/#post-1655393
https://www.techspot.com/community/topics/tech-companies-government-officials-and-others-vow-to-fight-for-net-neutrality.243112/#post-1655583

I fully agree with what they had to say. And if you think about it, you might come to the same conclusion. You have blinders on and can't see that the introduction of NN had negative results. The only way I could possibly support NN is if, I lived in the city and had superb Internet. Well I don't live in the city and I barely have Internet at all much less superb. ISP's are intentionally not fixing or upgrading infrastructure because of this NN crap.
If you believe that ISPs are intentionally slowing things down thanks to NN, why not do some research and then present your findings? We aren't stopping you and if you could prove it I would happily say I was wrong.
 

Bubbajim

TechSpot Staff
Staff member
Apparently no one can take away from an American the Gawd Given Freedom to pay more for less.
 

Puiu

TS Evangelist
I must have missed out on the date that polls were opened for coast to coast voting. And I'm positive the majority did as well. You will never sway my opinion of what Ajit Pai is doing as wrong.

https://www.techspot.com/community/topics/tech-companies-government-officials-and-others-vow-to-fight-for-net-neutrality.243112/#post-1655393
https://www.techspot.com/community/topics/tech-companies-government-officials-and-others-vow-to-fight-for-net-neutrality.243112/#post-1655583

I fully agree with what they had to say. And if you think about it, you might come to the same conclusion. You have blinders on and can't see that the introduction of NN had negative results. The only way I could possibly support NN is if, I lived in the city and had superb Internet. Well I don't live in the city and I barely have Internet at all much less superb. ISP's are intentionally not fixing or upgrading infrastructure because of this NN crap.
Then let them not uphold their end of deal. They got money from the government to upgrade. I want to see Trump sue them to start using it not to give into their demands like the weak little clown he is right now. What happened to not giving in to terrorist demands?

I really do understand why you are against a free internet for everyone, free of ISPs interference and censorship. It's baffling how you even think for one second that NN is a bad thing you know exactly just how much evidence to support it exists and just how every time Ajit Pai said something it immediately was discovered to be a huge lie (or just an insult).

The fact that you had "superb" internet in the city is also very debatable. At this point in time I doubt you even understand what superb internet is. I urge you to visit Romania to find out what a real monopolistic market looks like how it affects prices and the internet connection quality.

If your internet is bad then you should read this: https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20140308/06040526491/if-you-want-to-fix-us-broadband-competition-start-killing-state-level-protectionist-laws-written-duopolists.shtml
 
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BadThad

TS Booster
I always find it quite bizarre that ANYONE clamors for a bigger and more powerful government with more regulations and laws. It is quite literally the antithesis of freedom. Anytime we can remove government from our lives, the better our lives will be.
 

OutlawCecil

TS Evangelist
I always find it quite bizarre that ANYONE clamors for a bigger and more powerful government with more regulations and laws. It is quite literally the antithesis of freedom. Anytime we can remove government from our lives, the better our lives will be.
That is quite the extremest view. The rich will always exploit the system to become richer. The con-artists will always trick whoever they can. You can sit back and watch it happen, or have rules/government force it to stop. Limited government where needed and no government where not needed is best. Go try living in some other country if you'd like to experience lack of government.
 
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Bubbajim

TechSpot Staff
Staff member
I always find it quite bizarre that ANYONE clamors for a bigger and more powerful government with more regulations and laws. It is quite literally the antithesis of freedom. Anytime we can remove government from our lives, the better our lives will be.
If I told you that you had a choice whereby you could select: Option A. That's it. No B, C, D etc, just Option A. How exactly are you free? Now I tell you that the option you chose, A - of course - is now getting worse and most likely more expensive. Still, there's no B, C or D. Exactly how much freedom do you have now? Now that you have less money and still only one option.

To map that slightly facetious example onto the modern US broadband market. Ok, granted, there *might* be a B for some people, perhaps even an Option C. But they're *all* about to get slightly worse and slightly more expensive.

Companies being free to screw over millions of consumers doesn't seem to be worse (to me) than a democratically elected government restricting the freedom of said companies to screw over said consumers.

Personally, I believe that applying general principles, like smaller government is better government, doesn't work in every case.
 
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BadThad

TS Booster
That is quite the extremest view. The rich will always exploit the system to become richer. The con-artists will always trick whoever they can. You can sit back and watch it happen, or have rules/government force it to stop. Limited government where needed and no government where not needed is best. Go try living in some other country if you'd like to experience lack of government.
I'd much prefer the liberal leftists in the USA leave us for their dream of socialism and big government in another country. It can easily be found in Venezuela - where very, very few are rich and the rest live on the remaining government "free" scraps. This is the "income equality" achieved to it's fullest.

And tell me, what exactly is wrong with someone smarter and more driven than you making more money than you? That is the beauty of capitalism - the harder and smarter you work, the more you're rewarded. Nonetheless, liberalism makes those people out to be evil. Rather than lift themselves up (liberals), they choose to drag everyone down with them (income equality), as if they deserve a piece of someone else's pie just because they're alive. ABSOLUTE SLOTH!
 
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BadThad

TS Booster
If I told you that you had a choice whereby you could select: Option A. That's it. No B, C, D etc, just Option A. How exactly are you free? Now I tell you that the option you chose, A - of course - is now getting worse and most likely more expensive. Still, there's no B, C or D. Exactly how much freedom do you have now? Now that you have less money and still only one option.

To map that slightly facetious example onto the modern US broadband market. Ok, granted, there *might* be a B for some people, perhaps even an Option C. But they're *all* about to get slightly worse and slightly more expensive.

Companies being free to screw over millions of consumers doesn't seem to be worse (to me) than a democratically elected government restricting the freedom of said companies to screw over said consumers.

Personally, I believe that applying general principles, like smaller government is better government, doesn't work in every case.
If you only have A as a choice - THAT IS YOUR FAULT! You made a choice to live where A, B, C & D are not available, yet it's everyone else's fault and big government must come to your rescue? Truly a leftists choice, be lazy and demand the world change around you instead of you changing your world. It's much easier to complain than to get off your a$$ and do something about it.

Yes, companies are all evil, right? They provide people with jobs, tax money and services people want, need and desire. Without them, we'd be living in the stone age. Don't complain and be jealous, lift yourself up on your own merits!
 
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