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John Carmack isn't excited about next generation gaming consoles

By Shawn Knight · 41 replies
Jun 22, 2012
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  1. If you've been anxiously awaiting the arrival of Microsoft's Xbox 720 and Sony's PlayStation 4, prepare to be disappointed. John Carmack of id Software / Doom / Quake fame believes that these next generation consoles won't be worth writing home…

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  2. mevans336

    mevans336 TS Enthusiast Posts: 161   +11

    ". . .but it's not like the first time you've ever played an FPS."

    And that is why I am sour on the gaming industry as a whole. I'm sick of FPS games, but I'm also old enough to have played Wolfenstein on a 286 computer.
  3. I am sure the man is right. They won't be much better. But then who has been wow'd with the current.
    Sonys PS3 which I feel was superior to the xbox, hampered by designers not wanting to unlock a games full potential but dumbing it down for xbox360. And then there was the jailbreak and hacking issues, which led to a mass sony hatred for their way of dealing with the mess, and crapping on its customers, or so some felt.
    The Xbox360, which has to be the biggest joke ever. A machine that constantly melted. Overheated and an Xclamp pulled the boards apart. A clamp that apparently isnt necessary, but they failed to remove it. And why would they. Customers got refurb'd crap or bought a new one each time.
    I havent heard much in the drama department over nintendo's Wii offering. Sure it was basic and powerless, but it did have some entertaining time passing titles. It was different, it was unique. And sony and microsoft copied with their move and kinect. And the kinect has apparently had some triumphs, the devs have had some brainwaves with it.
    Nintendo however got no love.
    But will people care if things dont live up to expectation. No, the sheeple will form queues, waste their money on the latest hardware and games, games which will only be half a game as usual, the rest download content and addons you will have to purchase with more of that cash.
    Ahhh Capitalism. High priced with little worth.
  4. Carleton Wu

    Carleton Wu TS Rookie Posts: 19

    LOL. John Carmack is about as relevant as Steve Wozniak....
  5. So basically, you can't lauch your console to the space and doesn't have a 2,000 dollars virtual reality headset, and the worst, you can't do that while driving your ferrary... so lame.
  6. psycros

    psycros TS Evangelist Posts: 2,625   +2,364

    Ain't that the truth. I'm about sick of these "visionaries" who haven't produced anything of merit in a decade or more. They've been creatively stagnant and drunk on their own inflated egos for so long that they've lost touch with reality.
  7. I agree with Carmack on some things, but I don't on the majority of them. It's true that the new consoles will offer much better graphics; however, I do believe that they will also have stronger CPUs which will lead to better capabilities that designers can tap into. And having better graphics isn't a bad thing either. Most gamers obviously want good design and game play, but they also want great graphics to go with it.Look at the animated movies now. Why doesn't anybody watch the traditional animated movies now versus the CG cartoons? The stories are great in either one, but the graphics DO make a difference.

    I don't think most people cared for the touch interfaces and other inputs manufacturers keep forcing down them e.g., Wii, Kinect, and PS Move. It's up to the designers to design a game that truly takes advantage of the capability of these new consoles that will get everybody excited. That's also why us PC folks keep upgrading our graphics card too to take advantage of better graphics and frame rates resulting in better bench marks.
  8. If you're plan is to use ARM or AMD APU's in "next gen consoles", of course they won't be anything to write home about.
  9. Ma_ga

    Ma_ga TS Rookie Posts: 39

    After Rage, no body is excited about your company Carmack.
  10. gwailo247

    gwailo247 TechSpot Chancellor Posts: 2,007   +18

    The guys does have a point. Since the late 1990s games have really stagnated. There are occasional bright blips, but for the most part it just consists of better graphics. Every game you play now, I played as a kid, albeit with not as cool graphics or sound.

    Not sure why all the hate against him. Just cause his games aren't great, doesn't mean he's wrong. Designers completely rely on style rather than substance.

    Look at Sim City. Simplest game on earth. Now its getting rebooted so that we'll see the lens flare on the windshield of passing cars, but game play will probably be worse than the 80s era Sim City.
  11. customcarvin

    customcarvin TS Enthusiast Posts: 102   +8

    Damn straight. I lost faith in Carmack the second he abandoned pc gamers with RAGE. It's funny how he states the obvious though... Isn't this the way its always been with ALL consoles and PC hardware? lol I mean isn't a GTX680 more powerful than a 580, which can produce higher framerates at higher resolutions. The 360 can produce higher graphical fidelity at 720p then the XBOX 1 produced at 480p .... Thanks for the insight John lol ... man lost his noodle
  12. blackshadow2007

    blackshadow2007 TS Rookie

    He is complaining that all the industry is doing is just increasing graphics, so with that said wouldn't a virtual reality headset be closer to reality with better graphics lol? Also let's face it a majority of people that buy a consoles or build a gaming PC like to come home sit back and relax while they play. So these company's are really just catering to the typical end user.
  13. I'm sorry but after Doom 3 and Rage, Carmack should just STFU and let the big boys play their games.
  14. fimbles

    fimbles TS Evangelist Posts: 1,194   +209

    John carmack was very honest when rage was released.

    He openly admitted the reason why consoles were chosen as the lead platform was purely financial.

    He also admitted that the pc at the time was about 10x more powerfull than the current generation of consoles and much more could have been done if it was not fore the financial restrictions.

    I have great respect for the man, and the fact most modern games are directly influenced by early id games.
    gwailo247 likes this.
  15. Lionvibez

    Lionvibez TS Evangelist Posts: 1,438   +601

    While you are correct that Carmack hasn't done anything recently. I'd would surely take his word over yours wtf have you done for the gaming industry?
    gwailo247 likes this.
  16. customcarvin

    customcarvin TS Enthusiast Posts: 102   +8

    I used to have a lot more respect for him. Until he did that. In my mind he basically said,

    "Hey pc gamers, I know that id's been producing games specifically for the pc since our beginning, but we're going to focus most of our attention on the console version of the game so that we can make more money."

    The man is a genius, or at least a seemingly exhausted genius. He has done great things for gamers around the world so I wont completely disregard him... but the fact is he sold out to the man, disappointing.
  17. nugnamnivek

    nugnamnivek TS Rookie

    Whoa! I agree with a lot of you're statement, but you can't blame capitalism! If it wasn't for capitalism there wouldn't be any of this at all. No Techspot, no Microsoft, no intel, no amd, no technology advances at all unless deemed beneficial for government (or politicians). Of course it's not perfect, but it's the only way in which people can peruse there own self interests and be rewarded for hard work and dedication. The console gaming industry is a prime example of how capitalism should work! People were drawn to the Wii and it sold like crazy, and opened the eyes of the MS and Sony to innovate new features or be left behind. The same will happen with the next big thing, whatever it may be. It's not the fault of capitalism that equal opportunity doesn't always create an equal outcome.
    davislane1 likes this.
  18. I still can't figure out why everyone is so negative about RAGE. It had beautiful graphics and very satisfying weapons and enemies. It's what a first person shooter should be. The only bad thing I can say about it is the ending was a cliff hanger--much in the same way as fallout 3. A dlc would have fixed this....

    ((Lest people think I'm a console gamer, I'm not. Haven't owned a console since the ps2. The graphics on rage ARE beautiful.))
  19. "negative about RAGE. It had beautiful graphics "
    Are you serious? Are you? Damn...
  20. customcarvin

    customcarvin TS Enthusiast Posts: 102   +8

    Ya, I agree with most of your statement too. But, I think that's the viewpoint of too many developers these days. "Lets find out how we can make the most money" Where as in the past, especially with id, it was more like, "lets release a kick *** game, that everyone will want to play" The gaming industry is slowly turning into the record, and movie industry in terms of big brother type operation. I understand money needs to be made to support projects, it just seems that the focus is misplaced... At least in my opinion.

    I also think that if Carmack and the id team concentrated specifically on the pc game, and made it fun, memorable, and awe inspiring - instead of trying to tweak the engine to achieve 60fps for dated consoles - I think they would still have made a lot of profit and, at the same time, given the pc gaming industry the jolt it needs. --Somewhat In the same fashion as Diablo III, people usually anticipate id's next big release --Then, they could have either ported RAGE themselves, or paid a third party company to do it, as they've done with past releases. Who cares if the console version runs at 60fps I say, let it run at 30, most of the people out there won't notice the difference. Especially since a lot of top grossing games only run at 30 IE: Halo, Call of Duty, etc, etc.

    Lets just hope that DooM 4 isn't a huge letdown!
  21. Then perhaps you should move to Cuba or North Korea where capitalism won't bother you.
  22. killeriii

    killeriii TS Enthusiast Posts: 213   +14

    lol, I agree!

    "they won?t do anything more than deliver better graphics"
    What makes him so sure?
    Better graphics is the #1 reason to upgrade usually, but there's so much more they can do too.

    #2 - Smart baddies!

    I want to see more intelligent AI. In fact, more AI's with more intelligent AI. All current consoles deliver is AI with small routines. I want AI that actually challenges me! F.E.A.R had the most dynamic AI's I've seen, but again, just simple routines after you've played for a while.

    #3 - More sprites!

    I want to see more movable objects, not painted backgrounds. If I'm shooting a baddie in a house, I want to see stuff get shot up. Holes in the walls, broken windows, have the whole freaking house collapse!

    #4 - Physics!

    Game physics can only get better. Seems we've just touched the surface on this one. CPU's and GPU's break into a sweat trying to get this right. I figure hardware is limiting it right now.

    #5 - More responsive new tech.

    I've played the Wii, used the Kenect and Move, and they all suck. Well...the idea is great, and for some games they work great, but in the end they just aren't responsive enough for me. I need faster movement response times and more accurate pointing for it to be fun and not frustrating.

    I could go on, but I don't want to give all my ideas to the rich capitalists. lol

    For such a simple game, Minecraft seems to have broken a number of barriers where gaming is concerned. There are no static objects. The world runs itself based on rules given to every sprite in the game. It allows for game elements to interact with each other in infinite ways. One of the funniest things I've seen is a skeleton dueling a zombie because he got in his way while trying to get at me.
    I find it sad that an indie game that was still in beta seemed to push the envelope more than the $100M blockbusters.
  23. Sniped_Ash

    Sniped_Ash TS Maniac Posts: 253   +108

    Carmack straight up said in the article that the big 3 screwed that up with their motion controls. He's been kind of obsessed with reducing latency of all kinds for the last few years, first with RAGE and now with his VR goggles project.

    He's also right about next gen consoles. Do you want full 1080p at 60fps? Okay well now all of the system's power is going towards rendering that, leaving not much for better AI, physics, destructable environments, etc. You know that's going to happen because most visually intensive games can't do that on a computer without some pretty awesome hardware and you're not going to get hardware that good in a console that's supposed to sell for $300-$400.
  24. ---agissi---

    ---agissi--- TechSpot Paladin Posts: 1,929   +15

    He probably knew such a topic ie. Next Gen consoles would create a stir and fuel the attention he needs for his VR gig.
  25. AI, physics and destructable environments have no bussiness with GPU (rendering), they are CPU bound dude.

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