Rules are for minions, not for Masters of the Meta-verse!
Meta CTO says employees should use AI productivity gains to do more work, calls request for extra days off "very dumb"
- Thread starter midian182
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havok585
Posts: 520 +379
if facebook disappeared yesterday, it would not amount to anything of loss.
whatsapp on the other hand can stay.
havok585
Posts: 520 +379
made up numbers (except vat, but you still pay federal taxes that equates to the same ****).
OortCloud
Posts: 2,449 +3,551
I agree. WhatsApp is the only part of Meta that isn't absolute trash. How the company makes so much money is beyond me. Why would anybody want to spend time on a site that is 99% adverts and slop?
Axeia
Posts: 1,190 +1,567
Exactly my point? Some don't because it's not legally mandated.
That's why I said you already landed a pretty decent job if you do get it?
Well yeah, if you're in a position to choose. My point was it's a cultural difference, most of the rest of the world decided rather than leaving it to employers to set a minimum standard.
Money isn't the be all end all. Besides, you need to make more if you need to pay for healthcare and your kids education out of pocket.
For a European comparison in most cases keep in mind that you're entitled to basically unlimited paid sick leave, a minimum of 20 paid vacation days (that's double of the average in the US) and enjoy much stronger worker rights. (e.g. if you fall ill for several months you won't get fired over it)
So to a company you're just in general a much bigger risk and thus get paid comparatively less.
Some people like one system better, some like the other better.
The US is higher risk, higher reward.
The European approach is safer and without the massive pay.
The line is going up, shifting priorities now that it's worth turning it on for more than a couple of days a year. But yeah, definitely something for most Europeans that's enviable now that the hot days aren't just a couple a year.
I used to envy the big US homes but as I get older and older I realize I don't need more than what I actually need. More space to keep clean, more hoarding tendencies, more empty space to heat up or cool down. Space itself serves no purpose and I can only think of so many useful things to fill it with.
Besides, I'll take a low maintenance well insulated mortar and brick home build to last forever over wooden beams and plywood. We're going rather off topic tho.
Won't disagree it's gone to **** (UK in particular but it's terrible in The Netherlands as well). But if you end up in the emergency room you do get fast tracked. Very much a more recent thing though, my parents didn't use to have to wait for ages. It used to be a system that worked well, whatever they've changed was not for the better.
As I mentioned earlier I like watching videos of people migrating between the US and Europe, there's definitely quite a few people very glad that whilst in the UK medical aid came at basically no additional stress whatsoever. No messing about where to go, how much it costs, what is covered etc. You just go in, get treated and that's the whole thing.
My former partner who resides in the UK for her cancer treatment alone in the US she'd likely be several hundreds of thousands in debt (stayed in for several weeks). Don't want to publicize her entire medical history but that's just one example there were several other things.
Drs are pretty fast, hospital can be slower than desirable but wasn't terrible (2-12 weeks). I shudder to think of how much that would have cost in the US for all of it. If all of it was out of pocket I don't think that the big 1 million number would've been out of reach.
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VariableSpike
Posts: 526 +671
Yet another techbro executive who struggles to grasp reality and that working 60 hour weeks with using spare time to "develop better experiences for our customers" and most likely professing the joys of not sleeping enough and the like is far from reasonable or healthy?
If my company is using AI, I'd expect some of that to reflect an even stronger ability to stick to my contracted hours and be more efficient with my workload and shown respect, not the Meta way of "no, you do even more work! Surely you live to work like all of us with our executive pay packages and stunted world, work and life balance views, right?"
Especially in a country where worker rights are very variable, you can be fired on the spot, and annual leave is something you get consistently if you are lucky with your job contract, no use whatsoever earning big bucks if you have to dump that money into being able to live properly and then otherwise being a slave to your work and really not being able to spend proper time with your family, disconnect from work and be more efficient from having a fresh mindset and have time to yourself
Not saying people should be lazy, but the common person's definition of "lazy" and that of a tech bro executive (or executives in general) are wildly different where the executive will think that not continuing to work till 10pm poring over emails or having late night meetings (where everyone else involved doesn't get a say in the matter, since if your executive thinks you should be living to work and you can't leave anything for the next day ever, then you are being pulled along on that ride as a subordinate) is "lazy" and "innefficient"
If my company is using AI, I'd expect some of that to reflect an even stronger ability to stick to my contracted hours and be more efficient with my workload and shown respect, not the Meta way of "no, you do even more work! Surely you live to work like all of us with our executive pay packages and stunted world, work and life balance views, right?"
Especially in a country where worker rights are very variable, you can be fired on the spot, and annual leave is something you get consistently if you are lucky with your job contract, no use whatsoever earning big bucks if you have to dump that money into being able to live properly and then otherwise being a slave to your work and really not being able to spend proper time with your family, disconnect from work and be more efficient from having a fresh mindset and have time to yourself
Not saying people should be lazy, but the common person's definition of "lazy" and that of a tech bro executive (or executives in general) are wildly different where the executive will think that not continuing to work till 10pm poring over emails or having late night meetings (where everyone else involved doesn't get a say in the matter, since if your executive thinks you should be living to work and you can't leave anything for the next day ever, then you are being pulled along on that ride as a subordinate) is "lazy" and "innefficient"
OortCloud
Posts: 2,449 +3,551
Where that lot are going they will probably get it set on fire then inserted into various orifices on a daily basis for the rest of eternity.
Endymio
Posts: 5,605 +5,232
Some don't get Ferraris and ocean-side vacation homes because it's not legally mandated. Want to demand that too?
Only if you consider any job above that of an entry-level McDonalds counter clerk a "pretty decent job".
Which is why European GDP growth is a tiny fraction of the US, and why so many young Europeans simply cannot find a job no matter what:
"Unemployment in Spain in the 30-and-under age bracket currently hovers around 23.5%...job market is split between older workers with highly protected permanent jobs and young people stuck with short-term, temporary work. During downturns, businesses easily end these temporary jobs....."
"Between 2008 and 2023, U.S. Gross Domestic Product (GDP) increased by roughly 87%, while EU GDP increased only 13.5%...."
The official UK statistics say otherwise. The median wait time for all procedures is 12.4 weeks, with 11% of procedures now taking longer than one year. The median for orthepedic surgery is 36 weeks, and diagnostic tests like colonoscopies 9-14 weeks. These are all procedures that, in the US, wait times are generally no more than a few days.
The most shocking statistic to me is the UK guideline that cancer treatment should begin within 62 days of diagnosis -- and some 31% of patients don't even make that standard. When I was diagnosed last year with cancer, the doctor made one phone call, and my treatment began later that same day.
Endymio
Posts: 5,605 +5,232
My figures are all confirmable online in literally five seconds time. A younger, more idealistic version of myself believed the Internet would eventually make people better informed and less ignorant. Posts like yours confirm the exact opposite is happening.
jdrch
Posts: 61 +33
Imagine choosing to work at Meta in the 1st place. There is always a choice.
Axeia
Posts: 1,190 +1,567
I'll settle for an acceptable minimum for everyone. Without a minimum some people get effed over which isn't acceptable in my eyes.
Most of us are still dreaming about aircon, an entire ocean side home to escape the heat might be pushing our luck a little
Yep, I don't think just because a job is low paid/skill etc should suddenly mean you're not entitled to anything. Going by how McDonalds is in just about every country it seems like they can always can find a way to get things to work out.
Just singling out Spain is cherry picking not a systematic failure. Here in the Netherlands it's 3.8% (down from 3.9%). EU average is about 5.8%, worse than the US but not drastically so (seems to be at 4.1 or 4.2%).
GDP growth doesn't directly relate to how well off everyone is / how much their life is improving. Not getting the idea that many people in either region have the idea their lives have gotten much better in the last decade or so. Good chunk of current US GDP growth for example is tied up in the AI boom (percentage differs per source but they all agree it's a lot).
HDI (Human Development Index) might be the better statistic although growth numbers are hard to come by, wikipedia has an outdated list for it to give some indication I suppose if you want to compare:
List of countries by Human Development Index - Wikipedia
The UK has been struggling with pretty much everything for a while now, the NHS just being one of many systems that seems to be failing. Comparing the most expensive health care system in the world vs a 'free' (yeah, not really - I get it) one from a country that's struggling I'm not too surprised things don't compare favorably when you ignore costs entirely.
I guess I was lucky to be in the Manchester area as wait times weren't that bad yet.
Or well, others in the area were lucky. I myself have been far luckier still, I've luckily not needed medical care in my entire adult life.
Didn't mind my taxes going towards it one bit though.
But is that the case for everyone or is that because you're well off and possibly put your means towards ensuring quick treatment would be available? (costly insurance, top notch dr, good geographic location?)
If you're well off in the UK private healthcare is an option. It'd still be cheaper than in the US and likely speed things up (no source for the speed part, just guessing).
US healthcare system might be fast if you can afford it. However the majority of Americans would prefer it in the hands of the federal government.*
The other way around, try suggesting to anyone in the UK to get rid of the NHS and I think you might learn some new expletives.
* First source I found with Google and I like graphs. Doesn't really state where they got the numbers but they're the same as elsewhere.
How are they working harder?
I haven't had an hourly job since I worked part-time retail while going to university. Since then I've been hired to do a job and as long as that job gets done no one really cares how long I'm sitting in a chair. There are jobs that pay for time, but I doubt most jobs at Meta are like that.
I expect an employer to provide me with the tools I need for the job. Otherwise I'm a contractor. If you want me to use new tools that improve my productivity, I will, but ultimately I'm doing more work and I deserve to be compensated for it.
HomeyBroDude
Posts: 37 +27
While I agree with your rationale it is a double edged sword. First, there are 300 people standing behind you who want your job. Secondly, the graveyards are full of indespensible people. This is why "mediocrity/just good enough/putting my time in" is a losing strategy. Consistently outperform your fellow employees so when you ask for that raise, bonus, time off, chances are you will get it/them.
A great work ethic will allow you to retire early, not later.
Endymio
Posts: 5,605 +5,232
In any developed country, being "low skilled" is an intentional choice. You're entitled to freedom and an impartial legal system. You are not entitled to demand others must work to provide you with housing, medical care, or anything else that requires human labor.
Romania is worse than Spain, and Sweden nearly as bad. Clearly there's a systemic problem in Europe.
I'm speaking of youth unemployment, which is 16% in the EU, but only 8.5% in the US.
If the majority of people in America -- or any other nation -- thought it was a good idea to legalize slavery, would that make it right?
p51d007
Posts: 5,345 +5,523
And most are under 40 & have been given "participation trophies" most of their life, which gives them
that entitled mentality.
Spot on.
Equating high-paid corporate employment to slavery is an insult to historical reality.As a traditional center-leftist who believes in actual equality, watching this far-left extreme is infuriating. They aren’t progressive; they are entirely regressive. They are actively sabotaging progress, derailing functioning governance, and forcing authoritarianism dressed up as virtue.
I get the outrage over the current wealth gap and power structures. They are massive issues. But the American system has still provided more equality, upward mobility, and wealth-generation globally—by orders of magnitude—than any other system in history. Believing that tearing it down will lead to anything positive is a dangerous delusion.The traditional left has fought hard for workers within a functioning system. This fringe element wants to destroy it, pulling everyone down to an equal baseline of stagnation. It’s fully brainwashed, hostile incompetence with no basis of support other than emotional platitudes.
This is the horseshoe paradox in full swing. In their crusade against fascism, they’ve become ‘anti-fascist’ fascists themselves; embodying the very thing they claim to hate. They demand ideological purity, use compliance tactics to silence nuance, use subjectivism to chill dissent, shut down debate through infantile disruption, and despise any diversity of thought beyond their own ideology.
Right-wing hate, as disposable as it is, is usually overt; you can see it coming and protect yourself. But you can't reason with actual crazy. They seemingly can't do basic math, can't self-reflect, and genuinely believe destroying the economy will usher in a utopia.
And when it comes to forcing their will through control, public shaming, and intimidation, they are every bit as bad as the fascist right.
It’s not hard to look up for those willing to learn either. Understanding how these systems function in reality is important. For those willing to skip the ideological echo chambers, go take a long hard look at 20th-century economic history, data on the convergence of extremes, and the empirical metrics of global poverty reduction. That is where real education on the machinery begins and where this nonsense fantasy becomes crystal clear.
I think people are missing the basic employer/employee relationship here.
If Meta spends billions developing AI tools that allow an employee to do parts of their job faster, easier, or with less repetitive work, why would the automatic conclusion be, “Great, now I should work fewer days”?
You’re an employee being paid for your time and your contribution to the company, not a contractor being paid to complete one fixed pile of tasks and then go home when it’s finished. If Excel cuts a four hour spreadsheet job down to one hour, the other three hours don’t suddenly become vacation time. You move on to something else.
That’s the entire reason businesses invest in productivity tools...produce more, improve quality, eliminate tedious work, and make employees more effective.
But “the company made my job easier, therefore I deserve additional paid days off” is a strange sense of entitlement.
If you want to work as a contractor and sell a defined amount of output instead of your working time, America gives you plenty of opportunity to do exactly that. But when you choose salaried or hourly employment, technological improvements that let you accomplish more during the workday are part of the deal.
There’s a legitimate discussion here about how the benefits of AI productivity should be shared. “My job became easier, so I should work less for the same pay” just isn’t a particularly convincing starting point.
If Meta spends billions developing AI tools that allow an employee to do parts of their job faster, easier, or with less repetitive work, why would the automatic conclusion be, “Great, now I should work fewer days”?
You’re an employee being paid for your time and your contribution to the company, not a contractor being paid to complete one fixed pile of tasks and then go home when it’s finished. If Excel cuts a four hour spreadsheet job down to one hour, the other three hours don’t suddenly become vacation time. You move on to something else.
That’s the entire reason businesses invest in productivity tools...produce more, improve quality, eliminate tedious work, and make employees more effective.
But “the company made my job easier, therefore I deserve additional paid days off” is a strange sense of entitlement.
If you want to work as a contractor and sell a defined amount of output instead of your working time, America gives you plenty of opportunity to do exactly that. But when you choose salaried or hourly employment, technological improvements that let you accomplish more during the workday are part of the deal.
There’s a legitimate discussion here about how the benefits of AI productivity should be shared. “My job became easier, so I should work less for the same pay” just isn’t a particularly convincing starting point.
This is also how productivity improvements eventually stop improving productivity. If every efficiency gain is immediately converted into a higher workload, employees quickly learn there is no personal upside to becoming more efficient.
I get the point, but this logic falls apart pretty quickly.
If AI turns a four hour task into a two hour task, that does not mean the employee has now been sentenced to two extra hours in the productivity mines.
It means the task got easier.
That is literally why companies buy productivity tools.
By this logic, when Excel replaced calculators and handwritten spreadsheets, accountants should have packed up at lunch and said, “Sorry boss, technology made me too efficient today.”
The phrase “I got more efficient, therefore I should work less” is a very different argument.
At some point we have to remember...productivity means producing more with the same effort, not unlocking a secret paid half day.
One problem with society at the moment is that very little of the spoils come to workers when the businesses do well. Instead, it all goes to the upper management who "did so well" and get their bonuses, while the staff are laid off even when business goes well. Especially big tech has shown face here.
What the execs and shareholders forget is that the entire work force in the business makes the business do well. But currently workers are seen as disposable.
For those who say: "you got hired to work 40 hr/WK". Why are the execs not held to the same standard and "deserve" their bonuses?
What the execs and shareholders forget is that the entire work force in the business makes the business do well. But currently workers are seen as disposable.
For those who say: "you got hired to work 40 hr/WK". Why are the execs not held to the same standard and "deserve" their bonuses?
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I do not understand those comments that are defending these Meta Management points, and I will tell you why:
First of all, The workers are the actual output of a tech company, without them the company is nothing.
Second you earn loyalty by the perks you give and not the lashes you dish out.
I gave my employees a task for a day if they finished in 5 or 6 hours they could go home with a full days pay (trust me it did not happen often since I myself use to do their work).
I never made anyone one stay beyond 8 hours unless they needed to finish a critical task (which again was not often) and they always got overtime pay.
I could care less if my employees took their time of 4 weeks in a row or 1 week, I had to get someone else to cover for them (a temp) so it really did not matter.
I gained loyal employees that if I ever called at 1 AM due to an emergency never once did they not say: "I'm on my way in" (again not often)
Meta of all companies in the AI craze will be the first to go under, their leadership is corrupt, inane, and clueless. That is what you get when you leader started his company by ripping off the ideas of the actual people that started the company.
First of all, The workers are the actual output of a tech company, without them the company is nothing.
Second you earn loyalty by the perks you give and not the lashes you dish out.
I gave my employees a task for a day if they finished in 5 or 6 hours they could go home with a full days pay (trust me it did not happen often since I myself use to do their work).
I never made anyone one stay beyond 8 hours unless they needed to finish a critical task (which again was not often) and they always got overtime pay.
I could care less if my employees took their time of 4 weeks in a row or 1 week, I had to get someone else to cover for them (a temp) so it really did not matter.
I gained loyal employees that if I ever called at 1 AM due to an emergency never once did they not say: "I'm on my way in" (again not often)
Meta of all companies in the AI craze will be the first to go under, their leadership is corrupt, inane, and clueless. That is what you get when you leader started his company by ripping off the ideas of the actual people that started the company.
Then by that same token, if the employee becomes more productive and the company makes a bigger profit , then the employee should make a higher wage to equal the percentage of gain of the company. Or you are the type that says: our employees are more productive now, so lets keep paying them the same as always and we will keep the fruit of their labor?
I got news for you, all Tech workers fall under salaried workers not hourly, they do not get overtime and are expected to finish a task regardless of how long it takes them, in "decent "companies they will gave you "comp time" when this happens, but alas most companies are not "dent or good"
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