New startup aims to transfer people's consciousness into artificial bodies so they can live forever

Eray Ozkural

TS Rookie
I am an AI researcher working on human-level AI, and also a transhumanist who follows most of the associated technologies.

This startup seems like a scam. They've contacted some people, and it seems like they have no new tech, no expertise, no new research, or no new or workable ideas, basically nothing to overtake the human brain project and the like. It's not a problem you can tackle by hiring some random engineers.
 

bwana4swahili

TS Rookie
Honestly, the "man playing God" argument is so cliche that your post deserves to be dismissed based on that alone.

Research into this has been germinating for many years. This represents a catharsis in our understanding of death. If immortality is attainable, then it is infinitely desirable, because it would mean that this narrative we've constructed over the history of our species that death is an "inevitability" has been nothing but a complete lie. Everyone who has ever died has done so pointlessly due to the whims of an uncaring and *****ic nature that is not able or willing to provide us with this by default. And even then, it still occurs in nature, as certain species of jellyfish are effectively immortal. What is more intriguing is what happens after this; what with resurrecting the dead, eventual mastery of quantum physics, and a comprehensive theory of consciousness and reality, we will have literally become God.
Sadly EVERYTHING dies; planets, suns, galaxies, universes, etc. This development will simply extent life to some boring unnatural end...
 

Skidmarksdeluxe

TS Evangelist
Honestly, the "man playing God" argument is so cliche that your post deserves to be dismissed based on that alone.

Research into this has been germinating for many years. This represents a catharsis in our understanding of death. If immortality is attainable, then it is infinitely desirable, because it would mean that this narrative we've constructed over the history of our species that death is an "inevitability" has been nothing but a complete lie. Everyone who has ever died has done so pointlessly due to the whims of an uncaring and *****ic nature that is not able or willing to provide us with this by default. And even then, it still occurs in nature, as certain species of jellyfish are effectively immortal. What is more intriguing is what happens after this; what with resurrecting the dead, eventual mastery of quantum physics, and a comprehensive theory of consciousness and reality, we will have literally become God.
Luv ya too, now be a good boy and find someone else to troll.
 

captaincranky

TechSpot Addict
Luv ya too, now be a good boy and find someone else to troll.
Well, he has a point you know. The Holy Roman Catholic Church has been peddling the eternal life scam for over 2000 years, and getting damned rich doing it. How many other business do you know of which have their own country?

Look at the enormity of the "gift" Mr. Bocanegra is going to give his "backers". A brand new shiny robot body, no doubt much faster, & stronger than your old one, with UV blocking paint , racing stripes, and hydraulics in the feet, so you can make yourself jump up and down at the traffic lights.

Compare that with what the church offers, after living a saintly life, and contributing heavily to the church, basically all you get is a cheapo Maaco paint job (*), and they slap on a pair of wings.

(*) The reason angels are usually pictured as having white garb, is likely the same reason you paint an old car white, to hide the dents...:D
 
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captaincranky

TechSpot Addict
I am an AI researcher working on human-level AI, and also a transhumanist who follows most of the associated technologies.

This startup seems like a scam. They've contacted some people, and it seems like they have no new tech, no expertise, no new research, or no new or workable ideas, basically nothing to overtake the human brain project and the like. It's not a problem you can tackle by hiring some random engineers.
Right. With such an impressive set of credentials as those, how come it took you until post #53, to announce, "it seems like a scam", when the rest of us figured it out before even finishing the article?
You do it in reverse. We awaken our innerself. Fixup a framework. Then we download the operating system. From then on we keep on building up the layers of data. The manual on how to do this have just been printed. Depends how hardworking you are, you get the new system working in about 1 year. Your brain will only serve as a former memory bank. You speak with infinite wisdom. Simply called your don't knows. We are nearing to the second person to succeed. The first one is out teacher. Once your innerself is awaken, it is your representative to go about the different dimensions. You don't want to use your brain anymore as it is very limited. Your innerself have no limits. You choose when to leave. You simply can't die. You just carry on. It is already happening here in Malaysia to about 70 of us. You become a superhuman. But so many just don't believe. They limit themselves to the word 'impossible'. We laugh at these people.
So what's a self professed "uber mench" like you doing in a place with only us normal mortals,. You're "slumming it", aren't you?

I should petition the staff to award extra trophy points to those who join with "infinite wisdom" already under their belt. (Although, truth be told, the term "infinite wisdom" seems uncomfortably close to saying, "I know it all", for my taste).

Could I prevail on you to break me off a piece of whatever it is you've been smoking? :p
 
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captaincranky

TechSpot Addict
Honestly, the "man playing God" argument is so cliche that your post deserves to be dismissed based on that alone.

Research into this has been germinating for many years. This represents a catharsis in our understanding of death. If immortality is attainable, then it is infinitely desirable, because it would mean that this narrative we've constructed over the history of our species that death is an "inevitability" has been nothing but a complete lie. Everyone who has ever died has done so pointlessly due to the whims of an uncaring and *****ic nature that is not able or willing to provide us with this by default. And even then, it still occurs in nature, as certain species of jellyfish are effectively immortal. What is more intriguing is what happens after this; what with resurrecting the dead, eventual mastery of quantum physics, and a comprehensive theory of consciousness and reality, we will have literally become God.
Or perhaps, in a similar manner to you, we will all simply suffer from paranoid delusions of godhood, in addition to being mindlessly infatuated with the sheer quantity of hot air we can generate with our own banal rhetoric.:p
 
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Snauw

TS Rookie
"Bocanegra, meanwhile, doesn’t come from a scientific background. He describes himself as "a serial entrepreneur, technology visionary and internet marketer".

"Serial entrepreneur" huh? In terms of pop singer / guitarist / nuisance "The Artist Formerly Known as Prince". I guess that would make Bocanegra, "The Artist Formerly Known as Bulls**t"...:D
Hah. He should add "Social Media Expert" to that resume, just to reach critical fluff mass.
 
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advancedatheist

TS Rookie
I've made some inquiries among people I know in the cryonics community. No one seems to have heard of Josh Bocanegra.

Anyone who wants to look into brain cryopreservation in a nonridiculous way, namely in a way that makes sense to neuroscientists, needs to start with this recent scientific paper about aldehyde-stabilized cryopreservation:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26408851

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S001122401500245X

http://www.brainpreservation.org/21cm-aldehyde-stabilized-cryopreservation-eval-page/
 

Chris Chiesa

TS Rookie
The title of this article is misleading; they're not putting people's *consciousness* into an artificial body, they're putting people's previously-frozen, or cloned, *brains* into artificial bodies, which is a whole other ballgame.

In the first case you definitely won't live forever -- even if your brain somehow physically survives the freezing-and-thawing process, there's the little matter of restarting the extremely delicate physical (chemical and electrical, to start with, and probably quantum, if recent research holds up) processes that cause a MIND to emerge from the MEAT, so to speak. I have no doubt it will take many more than 30 years to master that trick. Even if they do, "you'll still be you" only as long as *that particular brain* survives (with one possible loophole); once you've been recorded and played back into a developing clone brain, *at best* you have a whole new individual who *thinks* he's you, who *remembers being* you, and whom your friends and family may well *accept* as you -- but there's no continuity of your consciousness: the "original you" *ends* -- dies -- and a new, "pseudo"-you begins. They could give pseudo-you your original brain in a jar as a birthday present. Heck, they could create pseudo-you while original you is still alive, if you need ultimate proof that he's a whole separate person.

The loophole is to hook up your original brain to the clone brain in realtime, so that your mind "runs" on both simultaneously. At first, run it 100% on your original brain and 0% on the new one, but gradually let the new one pick up more and more of the load -- 99% vs 1%, 98% vs 2%, ... 1% vs 99%, 0% vs 100% -- 'til you're running entirely on the new brain. Consciousness would be continuous and I myself would be willing to undergo the process.

The sucky part is that "forever" is an awfully big claim. You'd have to undergo the process again every brain-lifetime -- and eventually things will change and they won't be able to do it anymore: society will collapse and they'll forget how; or the tech will change so much, or humans evolve, so that you're in an old format they can't read anymore; or someone will arbitrarily decide to say "no" for reasons of their own, or ... well, *anything* might happen. "Forever" is a long time.

Too, your brain has only so many neurons or subatomic particles or whatever it is that does your thinking; these can assume only so many different states or configurations; and eventually you will go through them all and reuse a state you've been in before. You'll start to repeat the same thoughts you've had before. If "they" can detect when you start to repeat, that might look a lot like a reasonable point to tell you "no."

The loophole here is to keep moving your consciousness into ever-more-capacious hardware. Since you're already using artifical bodies, artificial brains shouldn't be too much of a stretch, once the technology becomes available. Then you just keep building them bigger and better, and you're all set -- except of course for that business about society forgettng how, or somebody saying "no" for their own reasons...
 
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bwana4swahili

TS Rookie
I've made some inquiries among people I know in the cryonics community. No one seems to have heard of Josh Bocanegra.

Anyone who wants to look into brain cryopreservation in a nonridiculous way, namely in a way that makes sense to neuroscientists, needs to start with this recent scientific paper about aldehyde-stabilized cryopreservation:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26408851

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S001122401500245X

http://www.brainpreservation.org/21cm-aldehyde-stabilized-cryopreservation-eval-page/
But Josh doesn't wanna read all that boring stuff before he gets started... He'd rather just do it!
 

bwana4swahili

TS Rookie
The title of this article is misleading; they're not putting people's *consciousness* into an artificial body, they're putting people's previously-frozen, or cloned, *brains* into artificial bodies, which is a whole other ballgame.

In the first case you definitely won't live forever -- even if your brain somehow physically survives the freezing-and-thawing process, there's the little matter of restarting the extremely delicate physical (chemical and electrical, to start with, and probably quantum, if recent research holds up) processes that cause a MIND to emerge from the MEAT, so to speak. I have no doubt it will take many more than 30 years to master that trick. Even if they do, "you'll still be you" only as long as *that particular brain* survives (with one possible loophole); once you've been recorded and played back into a developing clone brain, *at best* you have a whole new individual who *thinks* he's you, who *remembers being* you, and whom your friends and family may well *accept* as you -- but there's no continuity of your consciousness: the "original you" *ends* -- dies -- and a new, "pseudo"-you begins. They could give pseudo-you your original brain in a jar as a birthday present. Heck, they could create pseudo-you while original you is still alive, if you need ultimate proof that he's a whole separate person.

The loophole is to hook up your original brain to the clone brain in realtime, so that your mind "runs" on both simultaneously. At first, run it 100% on your original brain and 0% on the new one, but gradually let the new one pick up more and more of the load -- 99% vs 1%, 98% vs 2%, ... 1% vs 99%, 0% vs 100% -- 'til you're running entirely on the new brain. Consciousness would be continuous and I myself would be willing to undergo the process.

The sucky part is that "forever" is an awfully big claim. You'd have to undergo the process again every brain-lifetime -- and eventually things will change and they won't be able to do it anymore: society will collapse and they'll forget how; or the tech will change so much, or humans evolve, so that you're in an old format they can't read anymore; or someone will arbitrarily decide to say "no" for reasons of their own, or ... well, *anything* might happen. "Forever" is a long time.

Too, your brain has only so many neurons or subatomic particles or whatever it is that does your thinking; these can assume only so many different states or configurations; and eventually you will go through them all and reuse a state you've been in before. You'll start to repeat the same thoughts you've had before. If "they" can detect when you start to repeat, that might look a lot like a reasonable point to tell you "no."

The loophole here is to keep moving your consciousness into ever-more-capacious hardware. Since you're already using artifical bodies, artificial brains shouldn't be too much of a stretch, once the technology becomes available. Then you just keep building them bigger and better, and you're all set -- except of course for that business about society forgettng how, or somebody saying "no" for their own reasons...
If you're going to go to all the trouble of transferring your "self" to a new organic brain every 100+/- years, I'd rather skip this step totally and concentrate on moving directly to an artificial brain right from the get-go. This approach opens up so much additional potential; networking, off-site storage/backup, no need to keep an organic brain fed and healthy, the capability to explore environments where an organic brain simply can't survive, I.e.: space, other planets, long interstellar voyages, etc.

If we going to evolve beyond our frail organic bodies, let's go for the gusto!!
 
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captaincranky

TechSpot Addict
I've made some inquiries among people I know in the cryonics community. No one seems to have heard of Josh Bocanegra.
That's because he's a self created nobody. Merely a legend in his own mind.

Besides, Bocanegra calls himself a "serial entrepreneur". Which prima facia appears to be a newly minted web speak euphemism for, "con artist". If the responses here are any indication, he's not even good at that.

Anyone who wants to look into brain cryopreservation in a nonridiculous way, namely in a way that makes sense to neuroscientists, needs to start with this recent scientific paper about aldehyde-stabilized cryopreservation:
Well, when you come right down to it, "aldehydes" have been preserving people for many decades.

I notice they're dropped the formalin in the mix.. So would it be fair to call these "aldehydes", "designer embalming fluids"?

Or maybe, the scientists dropped the "forma" prefix from the "aldehyde", because it sounds less like they're full of s***, while they're begging for grant money....:D
 
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mosu

TS Evangelist
But who wants to live forever? check this: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Jtpf8N5IDE] or better, write a book likes Asimov, Verne and mark Twin did.
 

Zahid Iqbal1

TS Rookie
I have seen a Hollywood movies (don't remember name) in which this concept was used. In my opinion, we as human can't bear its drastic results
 

Emexrulsier

TS Evangelist
Nearly all those you posted are not ontop really..

Cybermen from Dr.Who
A cyberman hasn't had conciseness transferred, they are still human inside but had their brains suppressed of all emotion and their original self they are just drones.

Yes the developer did event a way to transfer conciseness from himself to a robot.

Krang from TMNT
Krang is an alien inside a robot, in essence the robot is an extension to his own limited body

Dalek from Dr.Who
The daleks are an alien race inside a very advanced form of transportation.[/QUOTE]
 

CAMeye

TS Rookie
I've read that it would be possible to emerge ourselves in a 'matrix' world, within 40 years.
So if this company can only keep the brain alive forever. I guess it would be possible.
 

RRStellar

TS Rookie
Bocanegra should stick to what he does: business. Not science. Common sense (or not?): in order to keep a brain alive one must make sure that oxygen is never cut from the brain. Otherwise it is and always will be a pile of jelly. Now, please stop wasting investors money on this garbage so they could stay alive and ruin the world with their greed forever, and spend it on real technology. No one cares that they're alive now and we'll be fine when they're dead too. The world cares about people who actually dared to make an impact and contribute to it, they're consciousness' are and will be very much alive. Clone or not. Frozen brain in a jar or not.

Or you can just share a legacy with your seeds or impact the world in a way your consciousness matters to be upheld. Fools. Our consciousness is so far beyond our physical bodies this is where this theory falls hard. The fact that human beings can't comprehend that our consciousness is too advanced and multidimensional to be transferred into an artificial body, is a reflection of man's self-destruction.
 

captaincranky

TechSpot Addict
Bocanegra should stick to what he does: business. Not science. Common sense (or not?): in order to keep a brain alive one must make sure that oxygen is never cut from the brain. Otherwise it is and always will be a pile of jelly. Now, please stop wasting investors money on this garbage so they could stay alive and ruin the world with their greed forever, and spend it on real technology. No one cares that they're alive now and we'll be fine when they're dead too. The world cares about people who actually dared to make an impact and contribute to it, they're consciousness' are and will be very much alive. Clone or not. Frozen brain in a jar or not.

Or you can just share a legacy with your seeds or impact the world in a way your consciousness matters to be upheld. Fools. Our consciousness is so far beyond our physical bodies this is where this theory falls hard. The fact that human beings can't comprehend that our consciousness is too advanced and multidimensional to be transferred into an artificial body, is a reflection of man's self-destruction.
Bocanegra, or as I like to call him, "Senor Black Mouth", is sticking to what he's good at, and that's The confidence racket. So, any attempt to use science to combat his bulls**t, is destined to fall on the deaf ears of one who is a true believer.