NSA and German intelligence sharing powerful online surveillance tools

By Justin Kahn · 14 replies
Jul 22, 2013
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  1. After reports early last month pointed at a deep level of NSA data surveillance in Germany, documents obtained by Der Spiegel (via The Verge) show that German intelligence is actually working with the NSA and making use of one of...

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  2. MilwaukeeMike

    MilwaukeeMike TS Evangelist Posts: 2,890   +1,224

    I think the word 'massive' is the internet's favorite form of hyperbole; it's very overused. I also believe 'recorded retroactively' is redundant.

    Anyway... it's good to see the NSA is cooperating with someone... the reputation of American intelligence is that they never help anyone but themselves. Now if we can get the NSA to cooperate with the CIA and FBI we'll be all set.
  3. cliffordcooley

    cliffordcooley TS Guardian Fighter Posts: 9,738   +3,706

    I'm thinking more along the lines of NSA, CIA, and FBI cooperating with the people they were hired to protect.
  4. amstech

    amstech IT Overlord Posts: 1,936   +1,101

    Goerge Orwell's 2014.
    avoidz and highlander84 like this.
  5. cliffordcooley

    cliffordcooley TS Guardian Fighter Posts: 9,738   +3,706

    Eric Arthur Blair (25 June 1903 – 21 January 1950), known by his pen name George Orwell

    I'm lost! How does 2014 fit into the topic of George Orwell? There must be another George Orwell.
  6. amstech

    amstech IT Overlord Posts: 1,936   +1,101

    I was being a *******.
    George Orwell's book about Uncle Sam keeping an eye on everyone is called 1984.
    George was just off by a couple years. :)
    cliffordcooley likes this.
  7. MilwaukeeMike

    MilwaukeeMike TS Evangelist Posts: 2,890   +1,224

    The book is about more than just keeping an eye on the people. It's Orwell's idea of the most extreme possible oppression of freedom he could imagine. The closest thing in reality to that book was Iraq under Saddam Hussein, but even he couldn't pull off the stuff in that book.

    The problem with comparing the govt to 1984 is that it's so extreme theres nothing else to compare it against. It's become a joke... like calling a leader Hitler, except Hitler was real and 1984 was fiction. We may as well say the US is like the capital in Hunger Games because the average salary of a congressman is higher than your average Joe.

    To be fair though... many people probably use the analogy who haven't read the book, and like Animal Farm, just because it's fiction doesn't mean you can't learn from it.
  8. Renrew

    Renrew TS Enthusiast Posts: 253   +19

    Merkel should have never denied Germanys links with the NSA. It will probably cost her Septembers election.
  9. amstech

    amstech IT Overlord Posts: 1,936   +1,101

    I've read the book twice. Its analogy fits quite well with today's unauthorized surveillance and control of people's choices. To say its an extreme analogy depends on what part you are referring to, and overall is inaccurate in my opinion.
    What do you call something that monitors every phone call, text message and email without your consent?
  10. Camikazi

    Camikazi TS Evangelist Posts: 925   +284

    So USA, UK and Germany so far, how many more countries will be found using these programs together? I'm guessing most all the major countries are using these tools.
  11. MilwaukeeMike

    MilwaukeeMike TS Evangelist Posts: 2,890   +1,224

    I would call it what it is.. monitoring. It isn't unauthorized, it was authorized by congress... who we elected. It's completely different than 1984. In the book there was a camera in everyone's house with someone on the other side making sure you were smiling while watching the govt's propaganda. Today your emails and texts go through some algorithm to see if you're talking to known terrorists. They're not read... they don't even have content, just metadata, and it's 'read' by a computer not a person It's not even close to 1984.

    In the book they did it to keep you in line, today it's to protect you. People don't disappear never to be heard from again because their neighbor thought they didn't love the govt. In Afghanistan when the army arrests someone the first thing they ask if they are being arrested as a terrorist or a criminal. They know that criminals get turned over to the Afghan police and that's a big problem. Terrorists are given food and a bed and must be charged within 72 hours. You can believe whatever you like, but America treats it's enemies better than Big Brother treated it's citizens.

    And I don't even know what you mean by control of people's choices... what choices of ours is the govt controlling?
  12. Echelon, PRISM, and now XKEYSCORE.. how much they need these kind of surveillance tools to stalk on us?
  13. Skidmarksdeluxe

    Skidmarksdeluxe TS Evangelist Posts: 8,647   +3,274

    We're all jumping to conclusions over this Prism scandal but all we've seen so far is the tip of the iceberg, if that. If we knew the full extent of the story we'd probably be mortified. Does anybody have Snowdens mobile number...
    amstech likes this.
  14. amstech

    amstech IT Overlord Posts: 1,936   +1,101

    Milwaukee, your taking my comments/analogy WAY too seriously. Easy there champ.
    Or really annoyed!
  15. Tygerstrike

    Tygerstrike TS Enthusiast Posts: 827   +93

    More annoyed then anything else really. Im annoyed at all the paranoid idjits out there. I live in a town chock full of crazy. So I get to hear how the govt is doing this...or the govt is doing that...or the congress is owned by X group. Its all just media hype.
    On one hand, if this program stopped a 9/11 style attack, the american citizens would be cheering and praising the govt. But since no proof of any "real" attack on the US soil has been derailed, the american populace has its nose out of joint.
    The reality is we are being controlled, just not by the govt. We are controlled by little men on a screen telling us what our opinions should be. Telling us we need hair transplants to make us more appealing. Or the little suzy really need that name brand jeans or she will be shunned at school. Everyone is so quick to point to 1984 as a benchmark. When the truth is far more devious. We are told what to think by our media outlets. Everyone wants to blame the govt, when the real criminals will continue to get away with their grand works. All the while showing you how much less you are as a individual, that is unless you buy this.........

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