Report: Donald Trump could grant clemency to Silk Road founder Ross UIbricht

[kiwigraeme]

I appreciate the way the PRC government deals with drug traffickers, people who embezzled money from the government and murderers as well as rapists.

They simply execute them all.

This way there could be absolutely no “pardons“.

I'm not sure about the good old US of A - but you can get posthumous pardons in other countries .
Eg Soldiers who fought in WW1 got Shell shocked / Post dramatic stress syndrome and were shot for deserting. Or Gays - I think that famous English code breaker at Bletchley park may have got one . Alan Turing

 

[Avro Arrow]

@Avro Arrow As I read your post (not quoted because of length) I'd say if this was a face to face discussion, we'd pretty much be in agreement. Discussions like this are hard on a forum (you don't know the person and lack context).
Bonne Journée!

Thank you for your kind words. You're right of course, forums don't convey any non-verbal communication which really sucks sometimes. This is a good case-in-point because this is clearly something that you're passionate about and, given your experiences, you have every right to be. I'd be just as emotionally-charged as you are if I were in your shoes. What's going on is just not right and it pisses me off because it wouldn't have to be this way if our society didn't reward psychopaths with all the positions of power so that they can just ruin everything.
À bientôt mon ami!

 

[Lew Zealand]

While I was looking for the date President Carter pardoned Richard Nixon (1974), I accidentally typed in "List of People Pardoned by Bill Clinton" 456 people with 140 of those on his last day. Interesting read as it also lists their offences (wikipedia). I'm not sure I want to research any more pardons

Carter didn't pardon Nixon, Ford did. And every Prez hands out pardons on his last day like they're hall passes or Oprah with cars. That's a longstanding tradition and really, one of the biggest perks of the office.

 

[Axle Grease]

BS on stilts.

I hope that helps.

 

[Endymio]

Big Pharma started it, absolutely, re-packaged old compunds in a new way then claimed there was little or no addiction risk.

This is historical revisionism at its finest. The primary impetus behind the opioid 'crisis' was the increased recognition that physicians were undertreating pain, based on several widely-cited research papers in the 1990s, along with the usual cyclic changes in drug use. Cocaine, hallucinogens, even alchohol -- these see significant upticks and downticks on decadal scales based on nothing more than social trends: why should opiates and opioids be any different?

No one ever told a physician than any opioid was non-addictive, and had they done so, they would have been laughed from the room. Yes, time-release oxycontin was marketed as being less liable to abuse than substances like morphine, a statement which may or may not be true, but certainly blaming the entire issue on a marketing blurb that few read and even fewer acted upon is absurd -- especially since the vast majority of overdose deaths involved fentanyl, heroin, and synthetic opioids other than oxycontin.

 

[Irata]

That's a fair point and you could be right. However, I don't think that they necessarily wanted this either. China's international image has been taking quite a battering as of late (Sars-CoV-2) and this coming to light sure isn't helping. Do they care? Probably not as much as they should but I kinda doubt that they're on a quest to make themselves look as barbaric as possible. I can't think of many people who would actually want that and people from China are still people.

That is true and I agree. A county‘s people ≠ its government, especially if it‘s not a democracy.

That said, China and the US are still adversaries / competitors if for the simple fact that the US is still the #1 super power and this is where China wants to be eventually. Anything that weakens the US is probably welcome.

 

[No Longer Human]

Carter didn't pardon Nixon, Ford did.

You are correct, apologies

 

[No Longer Human]

This is historical revisionism at its finest. The primary impetus behind the opioid 'crisis' was the increased recognition that physicians were undertreating pain, based on several widely-cited research papers in the 1990s, along with the usual cyclic changes in drug use. Cocaine, hallucinogens, even alchohol -- these see significant upticks and downticks on decadal scales based on nothing more than social trends: why should opiates and opioids be any different?

No one ever told a physician than any opioid was non-addictive, and had they done so, they would have been laughed from the room. Yes, time-release oxycontin was marketed as being less liable to abuse than substances like morphine, a statement which may or may not be true, but certainly blaming the entire issue on a marketing blurb that few read and even fewer acted upon is absurd -- especially since the vast majority of overdose deaths involved fentanyl, heroin, and synthetic opioids other than oxycontin.

certainly opiate use has its cycles, never claimed otherwise.
"NO ONE" = 100% all the time and everywhere, sorry you are wrong. I've known several doctors for several decades. I'll believe them over you thanks.
" blaming the entire issue on a marketing blurb that few read and even fewer acted upon is absurd" No what is absurd is that statement. Misrepresentation of my position, too many words such as 'entire' 'few read' 'even fewer acted upon' when you have no way of knowing if these claims are factual or not.
BUT this is all OT and will end like the thread that spun off into Lenin quotes etc., so I'll say it here as a last word on both of these topics. I asked for a source for a Lenin quote, for all your Soviet education, you never provided it. Still waiting.

 

[Endymio]

I've known several doctors for several decades. I'll believe them over you thanks.

While you've given us a sterling example of the logical fallacy known as the "appeal to authority", you gave no specifics that would contradict my statement. No doctor was ever told that opiates were non-addictive, and no doctor worth their sheepskin would ever believe such a ludicrous claim.

I asked for a source for a Lenin quote, for all your Soviet education, you never provided it. Still waiting.

Obstinate refusal to admit an obviously incorrect statement only makes you appear foolish. I've already explained to you that Lenin expressed on countless occasions the idea that socialism was to be considered a stepping-stone to communism. I can dig out one of my school-era textbooks and translate, or you can perform a five-second Google search to verify instead. Would you also like a source for Lincoln's quote which begins "four score and seven years ago"?

 

[Avro Arrow]

certainly opiate use has its cycles, never claimed otherwise.
"NO ONE" = 100% all the time and everywhere, sorry you are wrong. I've known several doctors for several decades. I'll believe them over you thanks.
" blaming the entire issue on a marketing blurb that few read and even fewer acted upon is absurd" No what is absurd is that statement. Misrepresentation of my position, too many words such as 'entire' 'few read' 'even fewer acted upon' when you have no way of knowing if these claims are factual or not.
BUT this is all OT and will end like the thread that spun off into Lenin quotes etc., so I'll say it here as a last word on both of these topics. I asked for a source for a Lenin quote, for all your Soviet education, you never provided it. Still waiting.

The only communist quote that I can think of that is even remotely relevant to this would be Karl Marx's quote:
"Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, and the soul of soulless conditions. It is the opium of the people"
but I've never heard Lenin say anything. Maybe he got those two mixed up or maybe I've just never heard the quote in question.

If someone becomes somewhat addicted to Oxycontin and their doctor stops supplying them with it, they might jump at the chance to get black market Fentanyl (which is far more potent and addictive), depending on their level of addiction, their level of willpower and the price of said black market Fentanyl. That's how I could see an Oxycontin addiction move into more serious (and/or fatal) territory.

 

[Irata]

The only communist quote that I can think of that is even remotely relevant to this would be Karl Marx's quote that "Religion is the opiate of the masses." but I've never heard Lenin say anything. Maybe he got those two mixed up or maybe I've just never heard the quote in question.

If someone becomes somewhat addicted to Oxycontin and their doctor stops supplying them with it, they might jump at the chance to get black market Fentanyl (which is far more potent and addictive), depending on their level of addiction, their level of willpower and the price of said black market Fentanyl. That's how I could see an Oxycontin addiction move into more serious (and/or fatal) territory.

That‘s also why heroin use increased considerably - dealers don‘t ask for a prescription.

 

[Avro Arrow]

That‘s also why heroin use increased considerably - dealers don‘t ask for a prescription.

Yep, as long as people who became addicted to Oxycontin could get some kind of opium-derived substance, it satisfied their cravings/withdrawal symptoms.

 

[No Longer Human]

While you've given us a sterling example of the logical fallacy known as the "appeal to authority", you gave no specifics that would contradict my statement. No doctor was ever told that opiates were non-addictive, and no doctor worth their sheepskin would ever believe such a ludicrous claim.

Obstinate refusal to admit an obviously incorrect statement only makes you appear foolish. I've already explained to you that Lenin expressed on countless occasions the idea that socialism was to be considered a stepping-stone to communism. I can dig out one of my school-era textbooks and translate, or you can perform a five-second Google search to verify instead. Would you also like a source for Lincoln's quote which begins "four score and seven years ago"?

Let's start from the bottom of your post and work up. I'll concentrate on this posting only just for brevity
You need to go to school-era textbooks and translate to find the source, but I apparently should be able to find it in a 5 second Google search? Then you resort to ridicule. Impressive. I never mentioned 'idea', just a source for a quote which you still do not provide.
Accusing people of logical fallacies, yet in the same post claims 'NO doctor was EVER told...'. The only way to actually KNOW this would be if you had actually communicated with every doctor, to use terms like that in this manner while claiming truth is disingenuous. You cannot say, for example, no dogs are white unless you have seen/know of every dog. It would also only take a single instance of a non-white dog to disprove this assertion (no dogs are white). No doubt, in a case like this (if you were the one who put it forward) you would claim this is merely 'anecdotal evidence' disregard it, add an insult and dodge the topic.
You like to claim a grasp of logic, but perhaps your knowledge of it is as strong as your knowledge of epistemology, which is clearly lacking.

 

[Endymio]

It would also only take a single instance of a non-white dog to disprove this assertion

True, just as you could disprove my statement by stating just one instance of a doctor being told opiates were non-addictive. So state one.

The federal prosecutors suing Purdue, as well as the attorneys general for 44 different US states couldn't find a single doctor who'd been told this, and they interviewed thousands. I doubt you can do better.

You need to go to school-era textbooks and translate to find the source, but I apparently should be able to find it in a 5 second Google search?

Yes. You can indeed. But by all means, continue pretending otherwise. Anyone who reads your post and attempts the same search will undoubtably form the appropriate opinion.

 

[No Longer Human]

True, just as you could disprove my statement by stating just one instance of a doctor being told opiates were non-addictive. So state one.

The federal prosecutors suing Purdue, as well as the attorneys general for 44 different US states couldn't find a single doctor who'd been told this, and they interviewed thousands. I doubt you can do better.

Yes. You can indeed. But by all means, continue pretending otherwise. Anyone who reads your post and attempts the same search will undoubtably form the appropriate opinion.

I gave you two instances, they were dismissed. I must need to be a Federal Prosecutor or an Attorney General in the USA. (EDIT) Perhaps it has escaped your attention the USA is not the entire world.
You say I can indeed find it in 5 seconds on Google, apparently you cannot.

 

[OortCloud]

Sounds like the sort of dishonest, money over morals, corrupt guy that Donald Trumps would admire.