Report: More PC gamers are turning to AMD's processors

anth85

Posts: 6   +3
It is - EPYC. And it is well-known in the enthusiast community, at least, that EPYC outright beats Xeon.

Businesses don't buy in overnight. It will cost businesses a fortune to replace all their computers with AMD based systems. Imagine how much it will cost your business to replace all of those 3000+ machines especially if they were to do it all at the same time.

Where AMD is currently out-competing sIntel is in the HPC market with their recent supercomputer wins. That also makes for great publicity for AMD, and it may drive the technically less astute business execs to say "let's buy AMD for our next computers."
I am not talking about the server space. I mean your standard admin worker. We currently put an i5 9400, 16gb ram, 256gb ssd All in One from Dell on each new staff desk and replace every 5 years. I am not saying replace all of those machines now, but Ryzen has been a good opposition for a few years and I have no option for a similar spec with one in. Even on our current tender the higher performance/ workstation models have an i7 9800k, those that one is admittedly due to be changed soon.
 

dirtyferret

Posts: 624   +704
I'm not arguing the results I'm just saying not everyone has steam installed and not everyone has it allow it to report their hardware. which is something everyone should keep at the back of their mind when looking at the stats.

And last time I checked having an opinion is not bashing. I haven't said anything negative about the survey at all.
I'm not really sure what your opinion is and I'm not bashing it. It's true not everyone has Steam and not everyone reports hardware but the statistical fact is those people are irrelevant based on simple math. The people who have steam but don't report their hardware are a small number that would follow the same Intel/AMD split as those who do. With Steam representing such a large number of gamers the results of people who don't have Steam would also be the same split. Like I said above the Gartner group surveys also back the split up.

It's like my car example from above and someone screams how in their hometown there are no American pick up trucks. That's great for your hometown but in so many more hometowns those cars dominate in sales that your hometown is statically insignificant.
 
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dirtyferret

Posts: 624   +704
There is never a month with more than 0.5% change and suddenly is a 3.5% change? Either millions of people got new intel computers for christmas or there is some kind of bug with their survey right now.
I doubt it's a bug and you are right on the former, most likely new pre-built PCs and laptops from Dell, HP, Lenovo, etc., for xmas. There was a 2% jump in August for Intel as well.
 

Shadowboxer

Posts: 912   +543
It’s going to take some time for AMD to really get a big market share. AMD over the years have let a lot of people down and it’s going to take more than a couple of generations of decent CPUs to rebuild their reputation. They need to perform a bit more consistently to gain the confidence of businesses for data centres etc, to these customers reliability and after sales support is more important than price and Intel have now been offering decent enterprise level support for years. To win gamers AMD need to offer a sizeable upgrade to most users who are on Intel quads from the last decade. Most new AMD chips I see are slower than my now 6 year old overclocked i7 4790K in gaming. As soon as we start seeing 20-30% gains over these parts I think gamers will start buying Ryzen en masse.

This all being said, my latest work laptop has an AMD R5 2500u in it. Although it’s definitely slower than my previously laptop which had an i5 8250 in it, and particularly worse in battery life. Fortunately my personal laptop has an AMD R5 3500u in it and it seems a lot better on battery than my work laptop so AMD appear to have addressed the battery issues of its first gen laptop parts.
 

Lionvibez

Posts: 1,972   +1,255
It’s going to take some time for AMD to really get a big market share. AMD over the years have let a lot of people down and it’s going to take more than a couple of generations of decent CPUs to rebuild their reputation. They need to perform a bit more consistently to gain the confidence of businesses for data centres etc, to these customers reliability and after sales support is more important than price and Intel have now been offering decent enterprise level support for years. To win gamers AMD need to offer a sizeable upgrade to most users who are on Intel quads from the last decade. Most new AMD chips I see are slower than my now 6 year old overclocked i7 4790K in gaming. As soon as we start seeing 20-30% gains over these parts I think gamers will start buying Ryzen en masse.

This all being said, my latest work laptop has an AMD R5 2500u in it. Although it’s definitely slower than my previously laptop which had an i5 8250 in it, and particularly worse in battery life. Fortunately my personal laptop has an AMD R5 3500u in it and it seems a lot better on battery than my work laptop so AMD appear to have addressed the battery issues of its first gen laptop parts.
You have some numbers to back this?

Also what res and gpu?

Or know of a current review that has a haswell chip in it?

"Most new AMD chips I see are slower than my now 6 year old overclocked i7 4790K in gaming. "
 
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dirtyferret

Posts: 624   +704
Steam Hardware Survey - likely flawed.
Or (more likely) you fail to understand basic statistics

Looking for followup from Gartner or equivalent.
mercury research has AMD at 18% market share in Nov

you can buy their research for $10k

forbes (powered by gartner and mercury) has AMD at 23% share in Sept
 
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MaitieS

Posts: 64   +52
That title is so stupid like Editor is expecting to everyone with Ryzen to use Steam... I am sorry but there is already a huge competition and not everyone has to use Steam. I own Steam with 200 games+ and I am rarely turning it on and Steam surveys are done once per 1/2 or year so these surveys still could be wrong...
 

Julio Franco

Posts: 8,662   +1,537
Staff member
Steam Hardware Survey - likely flawed.
wccftech - sample subject to 'pre-selection' distortion.
Agreed. I would have been reluctant to cover this story because of the sample size/bias, but our authors have some authority on what to pick and I think Rob did a good job of contrasting this data with Steam's. The previous title was not meant to be clickbait @Squid Surprise, even though you like to call us on it. IMO it was simply innacurate (now corrected).

With that said, I wanted to add this to the conversation...

Steam's data is not definitive nor perfect but it is a large sample size representative of PC gamers in general. It is interesting to watch for long-term trends and it's great that we have it and it is public. IMO, the CPU data is skewed toward Intel because of laptops. A wide majority of laptops rely on Intel CPUs.
 

Squid Surprise

Posts: 3,330   +2,209
Agreed. I would have been reluctant to cover this story because of the sample size/bias, but our authors have some authority on what to pick and I think Rob did a good job of contrasting this data with Steam's. The previous title was not meant to be clickbait @Squid Surprise, even though you like to call us on it. IMO it was simply innacurate (now corrected).

With that said, I wanted to add this to the conversation...

Steam's data is not definitive nor perfect but it is a large sample size representative of PC gamers in general. It is interesting to watch for long-term trends and it's great that we have it and it is public. IMO, the CPU data is skewed toward Intel because of laptops. A wide majority of laptops rely on Intel CPUs.
While I appreciate the title change, it’s still not an accurate title. The article is based on a survey of visitors to ONE site, and that site should be mentioned in the title. Or at least “AMD on rise according to one website survey”....

And I call this site out on clickbait because I HATE clickbait but I really like this site and would hate to have to stop visiting :)
 

Lionvibez

Posts: 1,972   +1,255
That title is so stupid like Editor is expecting to everyone with Ryzen to use Steam... I am sorry but there is already a huge competition and not everyone has to use Steam. I own Steam with 200 games+ and I am rarely turning it on and Steam surveys are done once per 1/2 or year so these surveys still could be wrong...
If these 200 Games are store bought games from Steam what turning on are you talking about?
 

Squid Surprise

Posts: 3,330   +2,209
That title is so stupid like Editor is expecting to everyone with Ryzen to use Steam... I am sorry but there is already a huge competition and not everyone has to use Steam. I own Steam with 200 games+ and I am rarely turning it on and Steam surveys are done once per 1/2 or year so these surveys still could be wrong...
The Steam survey is actually quite useful. As dirtyferret has already stated, if you understand basic statistics, in order for a survey to be statistically significant, it DOES NOT need to be taken by everyone. They key is simply to have a large enough sample of disparate users and simple math will dictate that your results will be virtually identical to the entire population at large.

As has also been stated, "official surveys" show virtually identical splits, basically proving this point.

But yes, the title IS misleading :)
 
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dirtyferret

Posts: 624   +704
I own Steam with 200 games+ and I am rarely turning it on and Steam surveys are done once per 1/2 or year so these surveys still could be wrong...
...the survey is literally broken down by month yet you think it's done semiannual...
 

Julio Franco

Posts: 8,662   +1,537
Staff member
And I call this site out on clickbait because I HATE clickbait but I really like this site and would hate to have to stop visiting :)
Thanks for the candid reply. I disagree on the updated title. We could go back and forth, but it's my opinion vs. yours. Do note the title and the subtitle that read:

"Report: More PC gamers are turning to AMD's processors
The Steam Survey disagrees"

Also, we have been reporting on CPUs long enough (news, reviews, etc.) that we have a pulse to know this is obvious (more people flocking to AMD in the past 2 years), this is just one report that like I said before, if I'm honest, I don't like the source too much.
 

Squid Surprise

Posts: 3,330   +2,209
Thanks for the candid reply. I disagree on the updated title. We could go back and forth, but it's my opinion vs. yours. Do note the title and the subtitle that read:

"Report: More PC gamers are turning to AMD's processors
The Steam Survey disagrees"

Also, we have been reporting on CPUs long enough (news, reviews, etc.) that we have a pulse to know this is obvious (more people flocking to AMD in the past 2 years), this is just one report that like I said before, if I'm honest, I don't like the source too much.
I'll agree to disagree :)

I DO appreciate the "The Steam Survey disagrees", even if I disagree with both the article and its conclusions.

I also sincerely respect that you bothered to reply - so many websites would simply ignore a post like mine - one of the reasons I really like this site despite occasional clickbait :)
 

umbala

Posts: 298   +365
Ryzen's been out a few years now, 16% of Steam gamers tells you that gamers don't care about Ryzen and know its a subpar performer unless you spend big, which ruins the point of getting value.
There's even less folks using Radeons...
You should see the comments on Newegg for the 5700...not good, lots of issues.

Comet Lake is coming as a 10/20 and supposed to hit 5.3Ghz in stock form, meaning it may be good for 5.5GHz with some tweaking.
I am happy for Ryzen though, its good to see another competitor in the game, as much as I like Intel, it's got to their head. Until Ryzen their prices were getting out of hand. IMO you will start to see the 3600 make a dent in Steam results, for the price that is one sweet little chip and a solid gamer.
But for gaming AMD is still 3rd place, there is no reason for gamers to upgrade if they are running Intel, which is where you get 16%.


You didn't gain anything in gaming performance.
In some games you actually lost performance.


This is true for everyone except gamers, which this article focuses on.
Why must people like you troll the internet? If you don't like AMD then don't buy AMD. Why must you make it a point to constantly post this garbage where you try to convince people how terrible Ryzen performanc is, especially in games! Newsflash: anyone over 30 (which is most computer users) couldn't give two craps about getting +5% performance in whatever stupid game you kids are playing now.
 

Squid Surprise

Posts: 3,330   +2,209
Why must people like you troll the internet? If you don't like AMD then don't buy AMD. Why must you make it a point to constantly post this garbage where you try to convince people how terrible Ryzen performanc is, especially in games! Newsflash: anyone over 30 (which is most computer users) couldn't give two craps about getting +5% performance in whatever stupid game you kids are playing now.
I'm glad you bothered to read his actual argument... here's the thing though... apparently LOTS OF PEOPLE DO give "two craps" about it... cause they keep buying Intel...
 

dirtyferret

Posts: 624   +704
Thanks for the candid reply. I disagree on the updated title. We could go back and forth, but it's my opinion vs. yours. Do note the title and the subtitle that read:

"Report: More PC gamers are turning to AMD's processors
The Steam Survey disagrees"

Also, we have been reporting on CPUs long enough (news, reviews, etc.) that we have a pulse to know this is obvious (more people flocking to AMD in the past 2 years), this is just one report that like I said before, if I'm honest, I don't like the source too much.
Thanks for the candid reply. I disagree on the updated title. We could go back and forth, but it's my opinion vs. yours. Do note the title and the subtitle that read:

"Report: More PC gamers are turning to AMD's processors
The Steam Survey disagrees"

Also, we have been reporting on CPUs long enough (news, reviews, etc.) that we have a pulse to know this is obvious (more people flocking to AMD in the past 2 years), this is just one report that like I said before, if I'm honest, I don't like the source too much.
I agree with your points AMD is definitely taking away Intel market share (good for AMD, good for the consumer, and actually good for Intel fans). Here is my question though;

From your techspot story you post
"According to the results of a survey, 41 percent of participants now use AMD’s processors."

but from the Wcctech story they post
" Some of the results were surprising such as the large 41 percent installed base of AMD processors, plans to purchase Nvidia’s newest graphics add-in-board (AIB), and attitudes about pricing for motherboards, AIBs, virtual reality (VR), and head-mounted displays (HMDs)."

That is two entirely different things as one talks about 41% of respondents (techspot) and one talks about 41% of AMD users purchasing Nvidia. In fact nowhere in the story do I find it saying 41% of respondents use AMD...I think Wcctech worded their finding inaccurately and you guys ran with it. A 59% Intel / 41% AMD split would be HUGE news yet they go with Nvidia in the following lines. My opinion, they intended to state

Some of the results were surprising such as the large 41 percent of AMD owners, plans to purchase Nvidia’s newest graphics add-in-board (AIB), and attitudes about pricing for motherboards, AIBs, virtual reality (VR), and head-mounted displays (HMDs)
 
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texasrattler

Posts: 959   +419
Isnt this article meant to be out gaming? Not AMD vs Intel.
Hasnt this been debated long enough. Intel has been and historically better for gaming. Hasnt AMD always been better for productivity, yep. Yes Ryzen has and is helping with gaming and getting better. Afterall, when you are on the bottom there is only one place to, up.
Intel and AMD have their pros and cons. In reality does it matter if you have a 2700x or a 8700K, no. Even if you have a older cpu, if its working for you then you are good. As long as it meets YOUR needs you will be fine for yrs to come.
 
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Squid Surprise

Posts: 3,330   +2,209
Isnt this article meant to be out gaming? Not AMD vs Intel.
Hasnt this been debated long enough. Intel has been and historically better for gaming. Hasnt AMD always been better for productivity, yep. Yes Ryzen has and is helping with gaming and getting better. Afterall, when you are on the bottom there is only one place to, up.
Intel and AMD have their pros and cons. In reality does it matter if you have a 2700x or a 8700K, no. Even if you have a older cpu, if its working for you then you are good. As long as it meets YOUR needs you will be fine for yrs to come.
Well, the title specifically states that it IS about AMD and Intel... the whole point (which is wrong, but hey, I'll let that slide) is that AMD has almost caught up to Intel (41%) in the gaming market... of course, the report is deeply flawed and when you choose statistically significant reports and surveys, you find that it's still under 20%...
 

Lew Zealand

Posts: 1,553   +1,539
TechSpot Elite
The steam hardware survey must have something weird going on with it, look at the previous months?!

There is never a month with more than 0.5% change and suddenly is a 3.5% change? Either millions of people got new intel computers for christmas or there is some kind of bug with their survey right now.

Also the whole "intel is best for gamers" has to be taken with a grain of salt. What it actually says is "if you spend more than $2000 on your gaming rig then intel is better. If you want to game for < $1500 (the majority of normal people that's not jeff bezos) AMD is better.
Thanks lipe123, you may be the only other person who looked at the actual Steam survey data before posting here. I had a look at it a week ago and saw the same thing. This month's Steam data is *useless*.

If it was accurate, then in December this happened:

14% of all Steam users uninstalled Windows 10 and installed Windows 7 after a gradual decline the other way.
5.6% of all Steam users traded in their video cards for a GTX 1060 after a gradual decline the other way.
9% of all Steam users traded in their video cards for 3, 5, and 6GB cards after no trend this way.
3.4% of all Steam users switched from AMD to Intel CPUs after a gradual trend the other way.
4.6% of all Steam users switched to 1080p gaming, including from higher resolutions.
10% of all Steam users suddenly upgraded to >1TB drives

And I save the best for last:

14.4% of all Steam users switched to speaking Chinese

It's pretty clear what happened, this is a reporting change. Steam added a huge chunk of the Chinese market to their survey this month and here's what they're using:

2.7-3.2 GHz Intel quad and 6-core CPU (prob Core i3 and i5-8x00 and 9x00s)
16GB RAM
Nvidia GTX 1060 5GB, with fewer 3GB and 6GB models (the 5GB is a China exclusive model)
1080p monitor (good match for the 1060)
1+ TB HDDs, I doubt that with those other specs they need SSDs


Everybody got that? Those here who fell into the trap of cheerleading for their favorite hardware manufacturer thanks to those numbers, please see r/woooosh.
 

Adi6293

Posts: 556   +657
It’s going to take some time for AMD to really get a big market share. AMD over the years have let a lot of people down and it’s going to take more than a couple of generations of decent CPUs to rebuild their reputation. They need to perform a bit more consistently to gain the confidence of businesses for data centres etc, to these customers reliability and after sales support is more important than price and Intel have now been offering decent enterprise level support for years. To win gamers AMD need to offer a sizeable upgrade to most users who are on Intel quads from the last decade. Most new AMD chips I see are slower than my now 6 year old overclocked i7 4790K in gaming. As soon as we start seeing 20-30% gains over these parts I think gamers will start buying Ryzen en masse.

This all being said, my latest work laptop has an AMD R5 2500u in it. Although it’s definitely slower than my previously laptop which had an i5 8250 in it, and particularly worse in battery life. Fortunately my personal laptop has an AMD R5 3500u in it and it seems a lot better on battery than my work laptop so AMD appear to have addressed the battery issues of its first gen laptop parts.
Unless your i7 is running at 5Ghz I think R5 2600 would already smoke it in games especially at minimum fps never mind 3600 which is about 5% behind the 8700K
 

amstech

Posts: 2,643   +1,804
Also the whole "intel is best for gamers" has to be taken with a grain of salt. What it actually says is "if you spend more than $2000 on your gaming rig then intel is better. If you want to game for < $1500 (the majority of normal people that's not jeff bezos) AMD is better.
This is simply not true.
For gaming, Intel's $350 9700K matches and beats AMD's much more expensive chips, right up to their flagship. Chips like the 8700K are still better then the 3700 and 3800X...heck even 3-5 generation old i7's still hang with Ryzen or beat them.
The fastest gaming chip in the world in an Intel CPU, or the KS.

An article by PC Gamer has AMD in 3rd place for 2019 Best Gaming CPU's.
For the majority of people gaming, Intel is superior.

And the folks making the 'only at certain resolutions or with certain GPU's' argument need to go look at the results again. Intel's chips are faster across the board, at various low/high resolutions and with various GPU's both red and green. The 9700K absolutely wipes the floor with the 3700X and 3800X in gaming for the price.
Not sorry.
I am not trying to be an Intel homer, Its just simply the truth.
16% of steam gamers folks. 2-3 years of Ryzen, and 16%.
 
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dirtyferret

Posts: 624   +704
It's pretty clear what happened, this is a reporting change. Steam added a huge chunk of the Chinese market to their survey this month...Everybody got that? Those here who fell into the trap of cheerleading for their favorite hardware manufacturer thanks to those numbers, please see r/woooosh.
1.

2. Valve has always stated its a survey of PCs with STEAM installed, they never claimed its North America and UK users only.
3. I don't see a lot of "cheerleading" for Intel or AMD because....wait for it...it's a survey of PCs with Steam installed clients for that month. Nothing more and nothing less. Completely useless to make a claim stating any peace of hardware is better then another peace. Useful when making the claim hardware is more often found on gaming PCs.
 
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