San Francisco is set to restrict e-cigarette sales in 2020, devices will require FDA approval

MaXtor

TS Evangelist
Platinum
To be fair you are quoting information that is more than 18 months old and is itself based on research that is more than 5 years old.
The Health Canada video is from July 2019 and is still displayed on their website (canada.ca/vaping).

The statement by the Ministry of Health in New Zealand is from November of last year. They have not strayed from their statement. In fact they have a website dedicated to the promotion of vaping as a less harmful alternative to smoking. https://vapingfacts.health.nz/the-facts-of-vaping/what-is-vaping/

Public Health England's research is still as true today as it was years ago. Which is why they restated last week that they stand by the previous advice on vaping.

New information has come to light and has been presented to challenge those conclusions.
Incorrect, the FDA and CDC has confused black market products with legal nicotine vaping products. Again, which is why Public Health England said on twitter last week "our advice on e-cigarettes remains the same despite headlines in the US."

“PHE has not changed its advice on nicotine containing e-cigarettes: Smokers should consider switching completely and vapers should stop smoking.”

 

wiyosaya

TS Evangelist
In 89% of current cases the victims admit to vaping black market cannabis products. Do you think there's a good chance that the other 11% don't want to admit that? I do. That's pretty obvious when you think about it.

Considering that tens of millions of people all over the world are vaping and the only lung injuries reported are this year and only in the US, the cause is obviously something that American people have done to their peers. Probably through adding oil to cartridges. The same nicotine vaping gear and liquid is everywhere else in the world and this isn't happening there. Vaping has been around for more than a decade and this hasn't happened before.

All this SF regulation does is hand a market monopoly to wealthy companies (think big tobacco) who can afford the rigorous FDA approval process. It wouldn't surprise me if these companies deliberately distributed harmful cartridges in a medical false flag operation.
You are correct, there is no definitive link to vaping currently, because it hasn’t been around as long and as mainstream as big tobacco.

Quoting your... quote?:
“The latest national and state findings suggest products containing THC, particularly those obtained off the street or from other informal sources (e.g. friends, family members, illicit dealers), are linked to most of the cases and play a major role in the outbreak.“

This confirms my post, isn’t misleading, and lends exactly to what I stated. We don’t know everything for vaping like we know tobacco, correct. But we know tobacco and it’s effects very well, and vaping is being absolutely demonized compared to tobacco’s *confirmed* causes of death. If the government is going to regulate one industry from literally the same department within the FDA, they need to regulate it equally. This is not happening.

THC pods have been confirmed to be a major role in the outbreak that just recently broke out, and got everyone’s misinformed selves on the anti-vaping bandwagon. Your quote above states that.

Doesn’t it sound natural that any foreign substance into your body can cause harm? If that’s the case with vaping it should be expected. The general consensus currently is that vaping can “cause no harm” and this is where statistics such as your first quote above play in quite nicely, and they themselves are misleading.

Recently, the very fast deaths have been attributed to illegal pods and home-made items. These issues have been inappropriately rolled into general vaping consequences because that’s what our media does, blowing things out of proportion.

I loop back to my original statement of understanding the root problem is key to solving it.
You guys don't get it. We are not talking probabilities. Until someone says that in all cases the illegal pods and some ingredient in them is the cause, then you are both playing the probability game. That's your prerogative.

In the meantime, here is something more for the probability game:
 

wiyosaya

TS Evangelist
“Vaping is less harmful than smoking.” – Health Canada

“There is scientific consensus that vaping is significantly less harmful than smoking.” – Ministry of Health, New Zealand

“E-cigarettes are much less harmful than smoking – at least 95%, with the risk of cancer calculated to be less than 1%.” – Public Health England

“Is vaping better than smoking? Technically yes, but so what?” – Andrew Cuomo, New York State Governor

I'll just leave this here:
I try to keep my posts simple so less people TLDR. But I know searching an exact phase in Google is difficult, I'll help you out.


“Vaping is less harmful than smoking.” – Health Canada

Statement made in educational vaping video by Health Canada:


“There is scientific consensus that vaping is significantly less harmful than smoking.” – Ministry of Health, New Zealand

First page, under "Executive Summary" number 5:
https://www.health.govt.nz/system/files/documents/pages/supporting-smokers-switch-to-significantly-less-harmful-alternatives-21nov2018-redacted.pdf


“E-cigarettes are much less harmful than smoking – at least 95%, with the risk of cancer calculated to be less than 1%.” – Public Health England

Third paragraph under "How safe are ECs?"
https://publichealthmatters.blog.gov.uk/2018/02/06/key-questions-and-findings-from-our-e-cigarette-evidence-update/


While I'm at it, lets add a new quote.

“...our advice on e-cigarettes remains the same despite headlines in the US.” – Public Health England

Tweeted November 5th 2019:
The Health Canada video is from July 2019 and is still displayed on their website (canada.ca/vaping).

The statement by the Ministry of Health in New Zealand is from November of last year. They have not strayed from their statement. In fact they have a website dedicated to the promotion of vaping as a less harmful alternative to smoking. https://vapingfacts.health.nz/the-facts-of-vaping/what-is-vaping/

Public Health England's research is still as true today as it was years ago. Which is why they restated last week that they stand by the previous advice on vaping.


Incorrect, the FDA and CDC has confused black market products with legal nicotine vaping products. Again, which is why Public Health England said on twitter last week "our advice on e-cigarettes remains the same despite headlines in the US."

“PHE has not changed its advice on nicotine containing e-cigarettes: Smokers should consider switching completely and vapers should stop smoking.”

When they do change their guidance, be sure to let us all say "we told you so."
 
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MaXtor

TS Evangelist
Platinum
When they do change their guidance, be sure to let us all say "we told you so."
As long as you do the same when the FDA admits they were wrong about vaping. Of course that likely won't happen until after they successfully hand the industry to Big Tobacco.

Public Health England's guidance is based on the Royal College of Physician's report, the same organization that warned about the dangers of smoking many years before the FDA. It seems that history will repeat itself; the FDA is once again lagging behind due to financial interests.
 

ZedRM

TS Enthusiast
As long as you do the same when the FDA admits they were wrong about vaping.
If the evidence supports such a conclusion there will be no need. However, the evidence thus far strongly suggests otherwise. It would seem likely that vaping is still as dangerous or nearly so but in a different way from tobacco..
 

MaXtor

TS Evangelist
Platinum
However, the evidence thus far strongly suggests otherwise. It would seem likely that vaping is still as dangerous or nearly so but in a different way from tobacco..
That's simply incorrect. The reason this technology is so incredible is that it's a method of delivery. It's like a fork, if you use it correctly, it's as safe as what you put on your fork.
 

ZedRM

TS Enthusiast
That's simply incorrect.
Opinion. Research is still ongoing.

The reason this technology is so incredible is that it's a method of delivery.
That point is not being argued. And I agree, it is a very interesting and creative technology. However clever, it doesn't mean there are not hidden dangers that need further research.

It's like a fork, if you use it correctly, it's as safe as what you put on your fork.
That is a silly analogy.
 

MaXtor

TS Evangelist
Platinum
Opinion. Research is still ongoing.
Outside of the US where governments aren't losing millions from missing tobacco sales due in part to vaping, the ongoing research year by year is constantly proving and reassuring that vaping is significantly less harmful.

That is a silly analogy.
It may be silly, but it's accurate. Eating is only as safe as what you're eating. Vaping is only as safe as what you're vaping.
 

ZedRM

TS Enthusiast
Outside of the US where governments aren't losing millions from missing tobacco sales due in part to vaping, the ongoing research year by year is constantly proving and reassuring that vaping is significantly less harmful.
Grasping a straws...

It may be silly, but it's accurate.
No, it's just silly.
 
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ZedRM

TS Enthusiast
Nope, just avidly reading the studies, seeing the evidence, and following the money.
That wasn't a study it was a revenue report. You're grasping a straws....

It's not silly how the CDC confused the public and led many illicit THC vapers to continue using contaminated products because they believed the issue was vaping e-cigarettes.
...and trying to side step the issue.

I'm out..
 

cliffordcooley

TS Redneck
"Vaping is only as safe dangerous as what you're vaping."
Fixed that for you. The safe thing to do is not to vape or smoke.

If you are unwilling to allow FDA to sift through evidence and decide which products they will/will not allow, you are part of the problem. I personally think all tobacco/vaping products should be banned. But if FDA is willing to allow a product, I will stand by their decision and allow you to slowly kill yourself.

The goal here is to put a stop to products killing in less than one year. I don't recall a cigarette ever killing in less than one year. Which is why cigarettes are not on trial today.
 
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MaXtor

TS Evangelist
Platinum
Fixed that for you. The safe thing to do is not to vape or smoke.
You're right.

The goal here is to put a stop to products killing in less than one year. I don't recall a cigarette ever killing in less than one year. Which is why cigarettes are not on trial today.
When using the term "vaping" on its own, the use of an e-cigarette is implied. Lets be clear here, vaping has not killed anyone. Smoking (which implies the use of a cigarette) kills 1300 Americans every single day.

Contaminated illegal black market THC products are killing people. The only evidence to the contrary has been self reporting from patients afraid to admit a felony.

edit:
As of November 8th, the latest report by the CDC no longer recommends that people avoid nicotine vaping. However, they still think e-cigarettes are used to vape THC. That's like saying cigarettes are used to smoke pot.

 
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TsVkK

TS Booster
You guys don't get it. We are not talking probabilities. Until someone says that in all cases the illegal pods and some ingredient in them is the cause, then you are both playing the probability game. That's your prerogative.

In the meantime, here is something more for the probability game:
Apparently vaping is linked to criminal behavior in youth as well... lol
Meanwhile those among us who have come from the generation where we are rationally able to extrapolate are able to tell what is happening.
 

wiyosaya

TS Evangelist
Nope, just avidly reading the studies, seeing the evidence, and following the money.


It's not silly how the CDC confused the public and led many illicit THC vapers to continue using contaminated products because they believed the issue was vaping e-cigarettes.
Nope. Grasping at straws.

And here is some more interesting news - https://www.livescience.com/teen-vaping-double-lung-transplant.html

I bet if you were to study some history, you would find it ripe with cases where humans have thought something was harmless or less harmful than something else only to find out "ooops we were wrong."

Good luck on your crusade. The evidence is building for vaping being harmful.
Apparently vaping is linked to criminal behavior in youth as well... lol
Meanwhile those among us who have come from the generation where we are rationally able to extrapolate are able to tell what is happening.
Arrogance has always been a human bane.
 
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wiyosaya

TS Evangelist
You're right.


When using the term "vaping" on its own, the use of an e-cigarette is implied. Lets be clear here, vaping has not killed anyone. Smoking (which implies the use of a cigarette) kills 1300 Americans every single day.

Contaminated illegal black market THC products are killing people. The only evidence to the contrary has been self reporting from patients afraid to admit a felony.

edit:
As of November 8th, the latest report by the CDC no longer recommends that people avoid nicotine vaping. However, they still think e-cigarettes are used to vape THC. That's like saying cigarettes are used to smoke pot.

:facepalm: From your own link:
CDC continues to recommend that persons consider refraining from use of all e-cigarette, or vaping, products while the outbreak investigation continues
Have you considered following the money in all these overseas cases that say "Vaping is safer"?
 

MaXtor

TS Evangelist
Platinum
Yes, exactly. They're still confused about what an e-cigarette is.


It's frustrating that it even needs to be argued at this point. Vaping is blatantly and drastically less harmful than smoking. It is not harm free, nothing is, it's about harm reduction for smokers who won't or cannot quit. Driving a car is dangerous, wearing a seatbelt doesn't make it safe, but it does make it safer.

1. There is no tar or combustion, which are what causes most the harm from smoking. Vapor from cooking food is generally harmless, however if you burn that food the smoke is far from harmless.

2. Less than 5% of the chemicals found in smoking are found in vaping. The chemicals which are found are at significantly lower levels. Many as low as exposures that non-smokers receive on a daily basis in any city.

Again, I'm not saying vaping is harmless, though it most definitely reduces harm in comparison to smoking.

vaping_vs_smoking_vs_non-smoking.png
 
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MaXtor

TS Evangelist
Platinum
Again, they're purposely conflating contaminated illegal THC products with e-cigarettes.

Evidence from the CDC:
29 of 29 fluid samples from victims tested positive for Vitamin E Acetate

Pesticides found in illicit THC products
Vitamin E Acetate found in illicit THC products

ZERO contaminants found in e-cigarette products


The ONLY link to e-cigarettes has been from patients who deny felony use of illicit THC products. ALL evidence through actual testing links to black market THC cartridges.

The CDC has known of these lung-illnesses since March. The cannabis community warned them about Vitamin E Acetate 6 months ago. The vaping community warned them 3 months ago. They relied solely on patients self-reporting and product samples provided by patients for months. Now their testing all links to contaminated illicit THC (Vitamin E Acetate). Yet they continue to use the term "e-cigarette" to confuse the public. It's sad, who knows how many deaths they have caused.
 
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cliffordcooley

TS Redneck
ZERO contaminants found in e-cigarette products
That is false! If it is not clean air. It is contaminated. The whole point in smoking or vaping is to contaminate air intake.

Contamination
Contamination is the presence of a constituent, impurity, or some other undesirable element that spoils, corrupts, infects, makes unfit, or makes inferior a material, physical body, natural environment, workplace, etc.
 
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wiyosaya

TS Evangelist
The CDC has known of these lung-illnesses since March. The cannabis community warned them about Vitamin E Acetate 6 months ago. The vaping community warned them 3 months ago. They relied solely on patients self-reporting and product samples provided by patients for months. Now their testing all links to contaminated illicit THC (Vitamin E Acetate). Yet they continue to use the term "e-cigarette" to confuse the public. It's sad, who knows how many deaths they have caused.
Yes, Dr. MaxXtor. Your conspiracy theory is undoubtedly sound and, of course, there is no conspiracy in all the entities that say that vaping is harmless.
 
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MaXtor

TS Evangelist
Platinum
That is false! If it is not clean air. It is contaminated. The whole point in smoking or vaping is to contaminate air intake.

Contamination
I can't tell if you're trolling or if you don't understand context.

Yes, Dr. MaxXtor. Your conspiracy theory is undoubtedly sound and, of course, there is no conspiracy in all the entities that say that vaping is harmless.
Thanks, either that or maybe you're just naive.

I mean corruption at the highest level never happens. Big Pharma and Big Tobacco never influence our government and politicians. It's not like the former head of the FDA, Dr. Margaret Hamburg made hundreds of millions in bed with Johnson and Johnson (creator of Nicorette Gum, Patches, and Inhaler).

Of course I'm just a conspiracy theorist. Where's my tinfoil hat? Gimme that.