So you only have PCI slots and want to game?

[Rage_3K_Moiz]

Never buy any computer that comes with a stupid ATI mb or Nvidia board. Intel mb is superior over them.

Nonsense. Please go learn something before posting misleading comments like these.

i was using Windows XP cataylst drivers instead of vista cataylst drivers, so the score was read incorrectly.

That is not possible, since XP drivers will not install, let alone work, on Vista. That is the reason ATI provides a separate driver suite for Vista. Vista drivers will likely work on Windows 7 however.

The dial on the lie counter is probably going around in circles now.

 

[Yukikaze]

Never buy any computer that comes with a stupid ATI mb or Nvidia board. Intel mb is superior over them.

I'd like to see you post an in depth post as to why you think that, indulge me please.

There is nothing wrong with AMD motherboards (ATI doesn't make motherboards, they only design the IGPs that go in them), and there are plenty good motherboards with nVidia chipsets in them (And also quite a few bad nVidia chipsets, I'll give you that, but you probably have no idea which these are, making your argument an ignorant shot in the dark).

 

[Tha General]

That is not possible, since XP drivers will not install, let alone work, on Vista. That is the reason ATI provides a separate driver suite for Vista. Vista drivers will likely work on Windows 7 however.

This is when i was using vista and the xp ati drivers install just fine, without any issues.

http://www.imagenerd.com/uploads/2009-07-10_142015-Yc2m7.jpg

http://www.imagenerd.com/uploads/2009-06-29_001924-roAKq.jpg

http://www.imagenerd.com/uploads/2009-07-05_230531-FS8Uj.jpg

Also just to note, there is no only made win7 drivers, they are vista drivers that works on win7 or the other way around. Nvidia or ati hasn't many any " only " win7 drivers yet.

Also just to note, before you say i am wrong about using XP ATI drivers on win32bit, how about you look at the photos, which i have provided and then if somehow you still don't believe me, install win32 bit yourself and download some xp drivers and install them and get back to me when they install and work lol.

I'd like to see you post an in depth post as to why you think that, indulge me please.

There is nothing wrong with AMD motherboards (ATI doesn't make motherboards, they only design the IGPs that go in them), and there are plenty good motherboards with nVidia chipsets in them (And also quite a few bad nVidia chipsets, I'll give you that, but you probably have no idea which these are, making your argument an ignorant shot in the dark).

I guess its a personal IMO, but from what i have been using over the years, intel is the greatest mb's ever in being stable and performance. So i am going to stick with them, like i said a long time ago.

 

[Rage_3K_Moiz]

You forced the driver install via Device Manager methinks; something that can cause major stability issues should anyone else try them, using your experience as an example.

 

[Tha General]

Just a update: I pretty much tried everything to get rid of the bottleneck, and nothing. Also i just did a fresh install and there wasn't any nforce drivers present, so that wasn't the problem, i am using lastest nforce drivers now and still the problem exist with or without them. So i think i found the problem and its very simple:

The 8400gs just doesn't function good with this prebuilt computer, simple as that. Yea it ran better slightly when i was using Vista, but overall it never worked as good as my 2400hd, which works superior with pretty much any game i play. And the fact that my 8400gs work better then my 2400hd when i was using my Celeron, and p3, well i am guessing, the 8400gs works better with older rigs, rather then new ones. Weird, but thats the only guess i have to why its not working on this emachine. The only bright spot, its not affecting every game, most of my games are running at 1280x1024 max at 40-50-60-100-200-400fps, no problems. Just seems to have a problem with very demanding 3d games, why they work fine on my old p3 or work really good with my old celeron d, and not this computer, who knows. I can't seem to figure out the problem.

Anyways peace.

 

[electromagnetic]

So the HD2400 PCI card is best. Great then that's a fact.

But you got a PCI Express x16 slot so go with that for gaming and the PCI for old games only.


Why do you student PCI Expressx16 slot owners keep saying PCI is bad when some of us are stuck with old slots tell the PC sellers like DELL/HP/ others that they should not use old slots in there PC's.

 

[Rage_3K_Moiz]

That is the entire purpose of said thread electromagnetic. We are just against the false claims made by Tha General that may mislead such people about what kind of performance they can expect with a PCI card. Also, he insists on using PCI cards despite having the choice of buying a PCI-E card; this also sends wrong signals to people who read this thread.

 

[LinkedKube]

I am not using Vista anymore, and i did a fresh install of Winxp, so i don't have that screenshot anymore. And i only got a 1.0 score because when i was using Vista 32bit, and my 2400hd, i was using Windows XP cataylst drivers instead of vista cataylst drivers, so the score was read incorrectly.

Your score would still be close to one, maybe two, not even to mention drivers for xp wont work on vista, if you somehow tricked your pc to doing it then kudos to you.


Originally Posted by Tha General
Never buy any computer that comes with a stupid ATI mb or Nvidia board. Intel mb is superior over them.

You just gotta laugh at this post, when you go from one chipset to another and you're getting below 20fps average you would notice the difference of 1-3 fps, lol. Oppose to just running a pci e card and averaging 40-50 at the same resolution.

Ex. 5-7fps jumping up to 10 every so often. I guess you'd notice that, oppose to getting 45-50 and jumping to 53 fps, definately not noticeable.

Do us a favor ThaGeneral, you can post here about new pci cards, just to let people they're still around, if you're going to proceed to mislead people how about you just not post here at all, I promise we wont miss you.

 

[Tha General]

So the HD2400 PCI card is best. Great then that's a fact.

No, they both seem to be on the same level of gaming performance, however the 8400gs is clearly more powerful. As i said i only have trouble with about 5-6 games, but all my other games are running just fine. So the 8400gs is more powerful overall. When i had my celeron D, the 8400gs out perform the 2400hd in pretty much all areas. But i wouldn't be bother with any card, for pci gamers, just use a 9400gt or 9500gt at this moment. But the 8400gs is very good depending on what sort of rig you have.

 

[Tha General]

Hey PCI gamer if you are reading this, do you still have those benchmarks and video of you playing Fallout 3?

Because i have the game now and i have it running at 1280x1024 AF 15 samples , Bloom , everything else on High To Ultra Settings, No AA, no Shadows and with the 8400gs i get a solid 20-25-30-50-80fps. It does drop to around 15-17fps only looking at some very demanding stuff. But speeds back up to around 30 and sometimes 75fps.
I am sure if i turn off screen effects i will get slightly better performance with AA on, i guess i will test it out soon.

 

[PCIGamer]

Hey PCI gamer if you are reading this, do you still have those benchmarks and video of you playing Fallout 3?

Because i have the game now and i have it running at 1280x1024 AF 15 samples , Bloom , everything else on High To Ultra Settings, No AA, no Shadows and with the 8400gs i get a solid 20-25-30-50-80fps. It does drop to around 15-17fps only looking at some very demanding stuff. But speeds back up to around 30 and sometimes 75fps.
I am sure if i turn off screen effects i will get slightly better performance with AA on, i guess i will test it out soon.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2-ML3ljQYCU

now go troll somewhere else

 

[electromagnetic]

It's not the speed that's the problem it's the rendering that slows everything down.
In Crysis I looked at your other video PCIGamer. How is the cut scene's with both of your PC's.

Not the gameplay.

 

[Rage_3K_Moiz]

It's not the speed that's the problem it's the rendering that slows everything down.

What do you even mean by that?

 

[Yukikaze]

i get a solid 20-25-30-50-80fps

So you get a "solid" FPS with a range of four times the lower limit of it ? I think you need check whether your definition of solid coincides with that of the rest of the humanity.

And stop recommending the waste of money the 9500GT for PCI is, not that you'll listen.

 

[electromagnetic]

What do you even mean by that?

The speed seems the same but the graphics render faster with Express x16 cards, PCI cards are not as fast, but the speed seems the same I looked at both PCIGamer's videos. The Crysis one.

So you get a "solid" FPS with a range of four times the lower limit of it ? I think you need check whether your definition of solid coincides with that of the rest of the humanity.

And stop recommending the waste of money the 9500GT for PCI is, not that you'll listen.

What does that state stick with older cards than the 9500GT.

Another thing why are these cards only 64bit, my integrated card is 128bit they should they be higher.

Are companies being stingy.

 

[Tha General]

So you get a "solid" FPS with a range of four times the lower limit of it ? I think you need check whether your definition of solid coincides with that of the rest of the humanity.
.

Well thats inside to what i get, outside is a different story, so overall the game does not very good. Oh well, guess.

 

[Yukikaze]

What does that state stick with older cards than the 9500GT.

Another thing why are these cards only 64bit, my integrated card is 128bit they should they be higher.

Are companies being stingy.

Great. Your IGP has a 128-bit bus. Yipp-die-doo ? The HD2900XT has a 512-bit bus with GDDR4 memory, and a 256-bit GTS250 with GDDR3 outperforms it.

What I was getting at is that the performance increase of the 9500GT/8600GT on PCI over the 8500GT or 8400GS on PCI does not justify the massive difference in price.

Addendum: BTW, no wonder on the 128-bit bus, too. Most likely the reason it is 128-bit is because that's the memory bus on the chipset's memory controller in the first place.

 

[Rage_3K_Moiz]

The speed seems the same but the graphics render faster with Express x16 cards, PCI cards are not as fast, but the speed seems the same I looked at both PCIGamer's videos. The Crysis one.

What do you mean by speed? Do you mean FPS? If so, FPS are the direct result of rendering AFAIK, which makes me even more confused by your post.

 

[PnKStRKiD]

Hi PnKStRKiD,
If you can afford this, i would recommend the agp ati 3850:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814102730

hey red1776,

would that be an agp card? and would that be the best that i could get for a good price and not have to cut both my legs and a hand off to buy?

and thank you for the reply

 

[teklord]

would that be an agp card?

Yes, it is the best you can get IMO because there is no driver support for the HD 4xxx series in AGP. Plus if you are using anything less than a dual core then you won't even use all the power of the HD 3850, I know because that is my situation.

and would that be the best that i could get for a good price and not have to cut both my legs and a hand off to buy?

It's the best you can buy for a $100 for AGP IMO. Great graphics card. Don't worry if you only have AGP4x because the processor bottleneck effects performance before the bus bottleneck can.

 

[PnKStRKiD]

Yes, it is the best you can get IMO because there is no driver support for the HD 4xxx series in AGP. Plus if you are using anything less than a dual core then you won't even use all the power of the HD 3850, I know because that is my situation.

well i'm most definitely not using a dual core. it's only like a 1.6 GHz processor.

so would this still be the best for me? I also have a PCI slot. are agp's better than PCI'S?

Don't worry if you only have AGP4x because the processor bottleneck effects performance before the bus bottleneck can.

i'm not sure what you mean by this.

 

[Yukikaze]

well i'm most definitely not using a dual core. it's only like a 1.6 GHz processor.

so would this still be the best for me? I also have a PCI slot. are agp's better than PCI'S?

That HD3850 would be so badly bottlenecked by your CPU it isn't even funny. Find a HD2400/HD2600/HD3650 for AGP and buy it (Or buy a second hand 6800 for AGP), anything over it (And heck, even those I listed, most likely, but at least those are somehow better value for money in your case) is wasted with your ancient PC.

AGP is far better than PCI for graphics cards. Do NOT bother with PCI cards at all if you have any other option (PCI-E/AGP).

 

[teklord]

well i'm most definitely not using a dual core. it's only like a 1.6 GHz processor.

so would this still be the best for me? I also have a PCI slot. are agp's better than PCI'S?

Yes, unquestionably it is the best your system can use but if you want to save $20 dollars then get the HD 3650 because your processor probably won't even utilize the speed of that one.

i'm not sure what you mean by this.

Your processor will greatly limit what the HD 3850 can actually do. Your GPU is only as powerful as your processor. Like Yukikaze said, never use PCI slots for graphics cards if you have AGP or PCI-e slot types. AGP 4x has 8 times the bandwidth of PCI plus it is dedicated and doesn't share that with other PCI slots as the PCI slots share bandwidth with one another.

HD 3850 AGP for me is like 2-3 times more powerful on my P4 system than the 9500GT PCI card is. Can't wait to build a PCI-e 2.0 rig.

 

[red1776]

The 3650 would be next in line after the 3850, for an agp card its relatively powerful, I really don't know where the bottleneck threshold would be for your cpu

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814102814

 

[electromagnetic]

My other option is PCI Express x1, better than PCI ?

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814161280

What do you mean by speed? Do you mean FPS? If so, FPS are the direct result of rendering AFAIK, which makes me even more confused by your post.

You are very objective to everyone's comments why ?

not everyone's got a superduper PC.