So you only have PCI slots and want to game?
- Thread starter vnf4ultra
- Start date
Rage_3K_Moiz
Posts: 5,403 +43
I object to misinformation only. As long as people keep posting falsified results that defy logical explanation, I will keep objecting to them. I'm sure others agree.electromagnetic said:
As for the PC, this is a point you constantly bring up for some reason; maybe you should consider saving that $130 towards a new PC; spending that much on a PCI-E x1 card is a waste of cash. It is possible to build a decent PCI-E gaming PC for $500 or even lesser.
so then. this would be the best for me in my case? it won't kill my pc but will be way better than my on board graphics card?
will i need to buy a new PSU?
teklord
Posts: 485 +1
This is the best AGP card that isn't close to $100 dollars and doesn't require PSU connections that I could find. The better cards all require power connectors. I got a decent PSU cheap off of Newegg but people advise not to buy cheap PSU's because they can knock out your system. Mine is still going strong however.
http://www.newegg.com/product/product.aspx?Item=N82E16814129096&ATT=14-129-096&CMP=AFC-C8Junction
http://www.newegg.com/product/product.aspx?Item=N82E16814129096&ATT=14-129-096&CMP=AFC-C8Junction
Tha General
Posts: 1,105 +0
I wouldn't buy a 2400hd, serious, i have one and its really really good, but i would buy this:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814129117
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814129117
Rage_3K_Moiz
Posts: 5,403 +43
That is a PCI-E card; he needs an AGP card.
LinkedKube
Posts: 3,385 +55
I dont think he'd know the difference if someone shipped it to him and it said in big red letters THIS IS FREE
If someone has a PCI-E x1 slot only, he can notch the back of the slot and place a regular x16 card into the slot. It will work, albeit at x1 speeds, but then it is still far superior to PCI and you can get simple cards for a lot cheaper than PCI or PCI-E x1 cards.
The other option is to saw some of the card's PCI-E connectors off, but that's tricky (I did it to a HD4350, though, it works).
The other option is to saw some of the card's PCI-E connectors off, but that's tricky (I did it to a HD4350, though, it works).
electromagnetic
Posts: 211 +0
I don't intend to buy another PC.
Rage_3K_Moiz
Posts: 5,403 +43
Then you surely can upgrade. I do not believe that there is no upgrade(s) you can make to your PC for $140. They would net you a much larger performance boost compared to that one PCI video card.
For 150$ (Not counting the 20$ MIR that the video card comes with) he can have this off the Egg:
CPU: Intel E1500
Motherboard: JetWay JI31GM4-LF
GPU: ASUS EN9600GSO/DI/512MD3/V2 GeForce 9600 GSO 512MB DDR3 (This is the 96 Stream Processor version).
Since he is using DDR2 currently, this will work as an upgrade and would blow that P4 to hell and gone. I am assuming his PSU will run the 9600GSO, but in case it doesn't, a 9500GT for PCI-E with GDDR3 is below 50$ in price and will work on just about anything.
teklord
Posts: 485 +1
He may have a prebuilt OEM system, if so then he probably has security protocols on the motherboard preventing him from mobo swapping or else he will get locked out. I got around that by swapping my OEM PCI only mobo for the same make and model mobo but with an AGP slot, so maybe he could do the same.
Don't think anything off Newegg would work in his current PC and he would have to buy more than just the mobo,GPU, & CPU to get it to work if he is locked out.
red1776
Posts: 5,124 +194
ever ever?
Rage_3K_Moiz
Posts: 5,403 +43
I have never heard of anything like this. The only problem (that I know of) with swapping out a mobo is that you'd need to do a clean install of Windows, since the existing install will not work unless the new mobo is exactly the same as the old one.teklord said:
Sometimes the OEM Windows CD/DVD that comes with the system will only work on a few select motherboards from the OEM that made the system. I've ran across that before.
Tha General
Posts: 1,105 +0
I am using Win7 now, slightly faster performance over vista, using my 8400GS.
As for the best drivers, well the new ones, 190 or even the 180 series are horrible, but going back to the 175.16 fix everything and only tested 2 games, but they are running really good.
On another note, Xp is a faster OS, seriously in gaming. So for my single core/dual core, i am going to use Vista Ultimate 32bit. and for my Quad core, i will be using Xp home Edition.
Hey what card are you buying, you did see the 9400gt right, did you go to the store and ask? what card are you upgrading too?
As for the best drivers, well the new ones, 190 or even the 180 series are horrible, but going back to the 175.16 fix everything and only tested 2 games, but they are running really good.
On another note, Xp is a faster OS, seriously in gaming. So for my single core/dual core, i am going to use Vista Ultimate 32bit. and for my Quad core, i will be using Xp home Edition.
Hey what card are you buying, you did see the 9400gt right, did you go to the store and ask? what card are you upgrading too?
I won't even bother to point out the lack of logic in that wording...
LinkedKube
Posts: 3,385 +55
lol I agree, totally backwards.
at this point just ignore his "updates." on what he's getting, he's been getting a quad core since january. He'll be "getting" a quad core next january as well, but he has to buy his pci cards first, so expect january to be yearly...indefinately.
at this point just ignore his "updates." on what he's getting, he's been getting a quad core since january. He'll be "getting" a quad core next january as well, but he has to buy his pci cards first, so expect january to be yearly...indefinately.
Tha General
Posts: 1,105 +0
Um for someone who has use xp for years and then use vista for about 2 years, trust me, xp is way more faster in gaming and plenty of people will agree to this. XP is less demanding, thats why its faster. its not the best OS overall , vista and WIN7 is the most stable OS ever IMO, but Xp is faster in gaming. Just my opinion.
As for my Quad core, and PCI cards, well yes i am buying a gateway quad core, the Q8300 or a Q9300, but i have no plans to buy anymore PCI cards. My next cards to buy for this rig is the Diamond 4650 and a 9500gt the one with gddr3 memory and a OC edition.
As for my Quad core, and PCI cards, well yes i am buying a gateway quad core, the Q8300 or a Q9300, but i have no plans to buy anymore PCI cards. My next cards to buy for this rig is the Diamond 4650 and a 9500gt the one with gddr3 memory and a OC edition.
Tha General
Posts: 1,105 +0
hmmm after more testing, i am getting better performance in games then i did in xp in Windows 7. So maybe xp is not the fastest. But i got worse performance in vista then xp , so xp i got way better performance then i did over vista, but in win7 i get better performance over xp and vista.
WOW.
So i guess i will use XP Pro sp2 with dual core when i get it and use WIn7 with my quad core when i get it. Right now, my 8400gs+single core+win 7 is working good. I did notice however that i can record easily on xp then i can with win7 or vista. But i gather once i get a better card, this time pcie, i should be able to record just fine.
WOW.
So i guess i will use XP Pro sp2 with dual core when i get it and use WIn7 with my quad core when i get it. Right now, my 8400gs+single core+win 7 is working good. I did notice however that i can record easily on xp then i can with win7 or vista. But i gather once i get a better card, this time pcie, i should be able to record just fine.
teklord
Posts: 485 +1
But he is going to have to procure a copy of Windows that will work with his PC and that may be too much money for him. He'll need to back up his data as well meaning he will have to invest in a HDD also. All he is interested in right now most likely is getting a GPU despite needing other things.
Rage_3K_Moiz
Posts: 5,403 +43
That is assuming he has a factory-built OEM machine. A self-installed OEM OS will just need a call to MS to activate.
And you just need a small spare HDD (they're pretty cheap) and a super-cheap enclosure. Even if you need to buy a large HDD to back up large amounts of data (and you should have backups already, assuming you recognize how unexpectedly easy it is to lose data), the end result is worth it IMO.
And you just need a small spare HDD (they're pretty cheap) and a super-cheap enclosure. Even if you need to buy a large HDD to back up large amounts of data (and you should have backups already, assuming you recognize how unexpectedly easy it is to lose data), the end result is worth it IMO.
The periodic making sense post.
I decided to put this thread back on track with a periodic informative post about PCI video cards, so here goes:
Uses of PCI Video Cards:
Despite the name of this thread, any would-be owner of a PCI video card should be aware of the fact that he will not be able to game very well with the latest titles, even on the lowest of low settings and low resolutions. These cards are great to convert older PCs into HTPCs, or to run older games (Up until the year 2005 or so), but they will not run any of the following with any degree of playability (Over 24FPS on average, on lowest settings, at 1280x1024 or 1440x900 resolutions):
Crysis
Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare
The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion
Fallout 3
They will run the following games decently:
F.E.A.R
Nexus: The Jupiter Incident
Homeworld 2
Mechwarrior 4
The Effect Of The Bus Bottleneck:
The PCI Bus is shared among all PCI devices in the system (As opposed to the PCI-E Interconnect which provides a stable bandwidth quota for each device independently). Even if the PCI video card is the only thing in the system's PCI slots, other on-board devices often share the PCI bus, further reducing the bandwidth available for CPU-GPU communications.
A general rule-of-thumb is that a PCI video card may be up to twice slower than its PCI-E x16 counterpart due to this issue (This was verified with the 8500GT, weaker cards might be less limited, more powerful cards may be more limited). The effect of the bus bottleneck is highly dependent on the specific application, however, which means that the performance delta versus the PCI-E counterpart card will also vary depending on the game or benchmark.
Memory Sizes, Memory Types and Bus Width:
Since the PCI bus severely bottlenecks video cards, and because most video cards on PCI are rather weak, memory bus width and the amount of memory on the card are not as critical as on more powerul cards on PCI-E. The difference between the 64-bit 8400GS and the 128-bit 8500GT is quite small, for example, when compared to the price difference.
None of the PCI video cards, with the exception of the 8600GT/9500GT, require more than 256Mb of memory, nor will they be able to utilize more than this in most cases. This means that paying extra for a 512Mb video card on PCI is more often than not a waste of money, and paying for 1Gb of memory on a PCI card is a near criminal misuse for funds. Do not bother with 1Gb PCI video cards, and save your cash. This is one of the most important pieces of advice for a PCI video card buyer.
GDDR3 is preferable to GDDR2/DDR2 on video cards, even on weak models, but a PCI video card with GDDR3 is next to impossible to find (Only the rarer-than-rare 8600GT comes to mind, and it is far too expensive to justify a purchase of one).
State of the Market:
For most PCI video card buyers, there is only a single choice of card. The GeForce 8400GS, priced at around 40$ and even less, is the best bang-for-the-buck PCI video card. I recommend against buying more expensive cards, as they do not justify the price premium. A few dollars more buy you the 512Mb version of the 8400GS, but the extra memory will go wasted, and it is hard to recommend it.
For around 50$ the Radeon HD2400Pro is an option. This card is weaker than the 8400GS in every regard on PCI-E, and while the difference is smaller on PCI, it still exists. While there are titles at which this card will outperform the 8400GS, the 8400GS is a better, and cheaper, choice of PCI video card.
For around 65$ the GeForce 9400GT can be found. This card costs more than 50% more than the 8400GS, but performs only about 20% faster in most cases. DO NOT BUY THIS CARD. If for some reason you wish to spend close to 70$ on a PCI video card, you should splurge the extra 10$ for the following card.
For around 75-80$ the GeForce 9500GT can be found. The price of this card is close to extortion, but it is available for purchase. If you were thinking of getting the 9400GT, just get this instead. But in either case, just buy the 8400GS and save your money. The performance difference isn't even close to justifying the price.
Arguably, the most powerful PCI video card is the GDDR3 equipped 8600GT by Albatron. But, this card is nearly impossible to find, and way too expensive to be seriously considered.
Any other cards on PCI are not worth mentioning due to either bad performance, *****ic pricetag, or both.
Hope this orders the thread a bit.
I decided to put this thread back on track with a periodic informative post about PCI video cards, so here goes:
Uses of PCI Video Cards:
Despite the name of this thread, any would-be owner of a PCI video card should be aware of the fact that he will not be able to game very well with the latest titles, even on the lowest of low settings and low resolutions. These cards are great to convert older PCs into HTPCs, or to run older games (Up until the year 2005 or so), but they will not run any of the following with any degree of playability (Over 24FPS on average, on lowest settings, at 1280x1024 or 1440x900 resolutions):
Crysis
Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare
The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion
Fallout 3
They will run the following games decently:
F.E.A.R
Nexus: The Jupiter Incident
Homeworld 2
Mechwarrior 4
The Effect Of The Bus Bottleneck:
The PCI Bus is shared among all PCI devices in the system (As opposed to the PCI-E Interconnect which provides a stable bandwidth quota for each device independently). Even if the PCI video card is the only thing in the system's PCI slots, other on-board devices often share the PCI bus, further reducing the bandwidth available for CPU-GPU communications.
A general rule-of-thumb is that a PCI video card may be up to twice slower than its PCI-E x16 counterpart due to this issue (This was verified with the 8500GT, weaker cards might be less limited, more powerful cards may be more limited). The effect of the bus bottleneck is highly dependent on the specific application, however, which means that the performance delta versus the PCI-E counterpart card will also vary depending on the game or benchmark.
Memory Sizes, Memory Types and Bus Width:
Since the PCI bus severely bottlenecks video cards, and because most video cards on PCI are rather weak, memory bus width and the amount of memory on the card are not as critical as on more powerul cards on PCI-E. The difference between the 64-bit 8400GS and the 128-bit 8500GT is quite small, for example, when compared to the price difference.
None of the PCI video cards, with the exception of the 8600GT/9500GT, require more than 256Mb of memory, nor will they be able to utilize more than this in most cases. This means that paying extra for a 512Mb video card on PCI is more often than not a waste of money, and paying for 1Gb of memory on a PCI card is a near criminal misuse for funds. Do not bother with 1Gb PCI video cards, and save your cash. This is one of the most important pieces of advice for a PCI video card buyer.
GDDR3 is preferable to GDDR2/DDR2 on video cards, even on weak models, but a PCI video card with GDDR3 is next to impossible to find (Only the rarer-than-rare 8600GT comes to mind, and it is far too expensive to justify a purchase of one).
State of the Market:
For most PCI video card buyers, there is only a single choice of card. The GeForce 8400GS, priced at around 40$ and even less, is the best bang-for-the-buck PCI video card. I recommend against buying more expensive cards, as they do not justify the price premium. A few dollars more buy you the 512Mb version of the 8400GS, but the extra memory will go wasted, and it is hard to recommend it.
For around 50$ the Radeon HD2400Pro is an option. This card is weaker than the 8400GS in every regard on PCI-E, and while the difference is smaller on PCI, it still exists. While there are titles at which this card will outperform the 8400GS, the 8400GS is a better, and cheaper, choice of PCI video card.
For around 65$ the GeForce 9400GT can be found. This card costs more than 50% more than the 8400GS, but performs only about 20% faster in most cases. DO NOT BUY THIS CARD. If for some reason you wish to spend close to 70$ on a PCI video card, you should splurge the extra 10$ for the following card.
For around 75-80$ the GeForce 9500GT can be found. The price of this card is close to extortion, but it is available for purchase. If you were thinking of getting the 9400GT, just get this instead. But in either case, just buy the 8400GS and save your money. The performance difference isn't even close to justifying the price.
Arguably, the most powerful PCI video card is the GDDR3 equipped 8600GT by Albatron. But, this card is nearly impossible to find, and way too expensive to be seriously considered.
Any other cards on PCI are not worth mentioning due to either bad performance, *****ic pricetag, or both.
Hope this orders the thread a bit.
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