The FDA wants to restrict the sale of flavored e-cigs and vapes

[treetops]

Banning flavours hurts adults more than it helps teenagers. Adults like flavours too. The reason vaping is so effective for quitting smoking is because of flavours. Teenagers are going to experiment no matter what, that's what teenagers do. While they shouldn't smoke or vape, I would much rather they experiment with vaping being that it is minimally 95% safer than smoking (and much less addictive).


Caffeine can also be used as a pesticide. Nicotine on it's own in it's diluted state (0.05% to at most 5%) found in e liquid is relatively harmless. Nicotine's addictiveness is directly comparible to that of Caffeine - when it's _not_ combined with Ammonia which is added to cigarettes (making smoking significantly more addictive).

Latest studies show incredible similarities between Caffeine and Nicotine. Both may prevent Parkinsons and Alzeimers. Both are stimulants. Both can be hard on your heart if you're old or have heart issues. Teenagers and old people should not be consuming either of them.

Teenagers are notorious for consuming alcohol as well. Should we ban flavoured alcohol?

Sadly there doesn't seem to be much research on nicotine alone. I tried to look up a previous article that might have duped me but couldn't find it. Anyways this seems to be the most pertinent info.

https://medicalxpress.com/news/2018-01-nicotine-e-cigarettes-cancers-mouse.html
"The nicotine in e-cigarettes seems to damage DNA in ways that may increase cancer risk, a new study in mice suggests.

"We found the solvent alone does not cause DNA damage," Tang said. "Nicotine with e-cigarette solvent caused the same damage as nicotine alone." (Mice)

The researchers also exposed cultured human lung and bladder cells to nicotine, and found the same effects—DNA damage and suppressed DNA repair.

The next step of the research is underway, in which mice are exposed to nicotine and e-cigarette vapor long-term to see if they actually develop cancer or heart disease, Tang added.
"

I found a research paper on nicotine effects from 1997 when they were deciding on whether or not to introduce nicotine gum and it's effects. Anyone vaping would probably be interested in it. A doctor would be the best person to interrupt all of the info.

http://www.onlinejacc.org/content/29/7/1422

 

[DukeJukem]

Nicotine is literally poison, I smoke, but would actually be happy if they banned all nicotine products. It was used as a pesticide until 2014.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicotine

I recently got this little note in my Marlboro pack. It's really a scourge on society. If it kills more people then all ILLEGAL drugs combined, why not ban it just like those drugs.

uh yea those are cigarettes not ejuice lol. pretty sure cigs have rat poison and hair spray ingredients in them and ejuice doesn't

 

[DukeJukem]

The amount of trolling here is astounding.
No, we don't have thousands of caffeine deaths each year. People who die from tobacco don't necessarily all die from cancer. Many die, because of the elevated blood pressure due to the nicotine consumption.
But go on, spread your feces...

im pretty sure that elevated blood pressure mainly comes from their arteries and **** being clogged up from all the tar etc in cigarrettes. ya eva put a kink in your garden house when its on? builds up alot of....HIGH PRESSURE dontcha think? same goes for clogged up arteries. nicotine doesn't do that lol. nicotine raises your heart rate yes so follow me. tar etc from cigs clogged the arteries, nicotine raises blood pressure, persons heart explodes. is it the nicotines fault or the other garbage actually clogging the arteries? pretty sure its not the nicotine but the other stuff purposely put in their to kill people, nicotine is just pouring gas on the already lit fuse. the fda wants the sale of ejuice of these flavor types to stop because it entices more adults to switch over if they were to be enticed with the same flavor their cigarette already has. the fda doesnt give a **** about kids lol. if they did then they should continue caring when theyre old enough to buy cigs and instead never sell them cigarettes lol. but yea......the fda cares about kids rofl.

oh and the near complete abolishment theyre trying to pull on this ejuice crap will also prevent tons of research that go towards nicotine that will most likely prove nicotine doesnt cause cancer or kill people with this high blood pressure nonsense

 

[captaincranky]

im pretty sure that elevated blood pressure mainly comes from their arteries and **** being clogged up from all the tar etc in cigarrettes. ya eva put a kink in your garden house when its on? builds up alot of....HIGH PRESSURE dontcha think? ...[ ]...

This is pretty much a fantasy and bullsh!t bunch of drivel. The tar from cigarettes clogs up your lungs.

The arteries are a far different story. They clog up from fat. Cigarettes are non fattening.

I always get a charge out of the pro vaping set. All your arguments are based in junk science, and adapted to what you want to believe.

That's fine, but do the rest of us the courtesy of trying to divine the truth without your incompetent, self serving, interference.

I have absolutely no idea where you come up with vthe idea/ your truth, that the FDA wants you smoking and not vaping. They don't want people doing either. Is that so hard to understand?

The American Cancer Society tore up big tobacco in Federal Court:

 

[imdarkbreeze]

Yeah, we get it, it's bad for you. But it's a lot LESS bad for you than commercially available cigarettes WITH the aforementioned tar (Not a by product of e-juice), ammonia and 4,998 other chemicals mostly not present. Yes, there are bad compounds present in e-juice. Yes, it's bad for you.

As mentioned before, this is NOT an article about whether or not e-juice is safe or bad. It's about whether or not flavored e-juice should be banned because of kids. None of these arguments have anything, at ALL, to do with THAT. So all of the off topic posts that don't apply directly to whether or not flavors should be banned, is irrelevant.

Kids will smoke cigarettes. Kids will drink alcohol. Kids will vape. Making it harder, and more expensive to obtain will do absolutely NOTHING to curtail that fact, and will likely make what they DO obtain, more dangerous due to unregulated formulations. Marijuana was illegal for decades, it didn't stop kids from smoking it anymore than banning flavors will stop them from vaping. Period.

 

[James00007]

Here we go again.

Yes pro vaping set arguments are based in junk science. Like the science from the Royal College of Physicians who are the most respected and prestigious medical group in the world and were the first to speak out on the dangers of smoking.

vs captaincranky's nicotine doesn't get you high enough argument.

https://www.rcplondon.ac.uk/projects/outputs/nicotine-without-smoke-tobacco-harm-reduction-0

"However, in the interests of public health it is important to promote the use of e-cigarettes, NRT and other non-tobacco nicotine products as widely as possible as a substitute for smoking"


As for any of this heart problem BS from vaping

http://www.ecigarette-research.org/research/index.php/whats-new/2019/268-ecig-heart

"E-cigarette use increases the risk of stroke and heart attack: conclusions that constitute epidemiological malpractice"

 

[James00007]

"Put together, the facts do not indicate an epidemic of e-cigarette use among adolescents. Yet, that is exactly how some anti-smoking advocates, the news media, and even government agencies have portrayed the situation. The question this paper seeks to answer is: Why?"

https://cei.org/content/fear-profiteers

"It might seem counterintuitive that anti-smoking advocates would spearhead a campaign to scare people away from products that reduce tobacco-related harm—a central part of their mission. But as admirable as that mission is, improving public health is not their sole objective."

"All charitable and nonprofit organizations must pursue funding to support and sustain their efforts. They need income in order to pay salaries and rent and invest in the projects that advance their cause."

 

[James00007]

https://vaping360.com/health/vaping-studies/

Which flavors matter to adult vapers?

Two papers published in 2017 confirm that adult vapers prefer sweet flavors to the tobacco flavors that most non-vapers assume ex-smokers would like.

The first vaping flavor study used data from a 2016 survey of almost 21,000 frequent American vapers to show that fruit and dessert flavors were by far the most popular among all kinds of vapers — even “dual-users” (smokers who also vape). The other paper describes the largest-ever survey of American vapers’ flavor preferences. More than 69,000 adult vapers participated.

The survey showed that more than 80 percent of current, former and never smokers who vape preferred fruit or dessert/pastry/bakery flavors. And among the exclusive vapers, just 7.7 percent vape tobacco flavors at all.

https://harmreductionjournal.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12954-018-0238-6

https://www.dropbox.com/s/b8uwoxay6i2fzb2/Docket No. FDA-2017-N-6565_FARSALINOS.pdf?dl=0

 

[xxLCxx]

This is an e-cigarette selling forum. What a mob.

 

[James00007]

People that make a living helping save lives. What a mob?

 

[James00007]

Today is Albert Einstein's 140th Birthday. It's really too bad: he could have amounted to something if only nicotine hadn't caused all that brain damage.

 

[Axiarus]

Did you fail to notice that the tobacco companies have been (and continue to) taking over that segment?

Yeah, problem is, when people get off the little crap pods they move on to setups that aren't in the tobacco company's pockets. No one at my job is using anything but box/mech mods.

 

[captaincranky]

This is an e-cigarette selling forum. What a mob.

No, this is, or rather has become, (as I have anticipated), @James00007 's soapbox..

I never contested that smoking is more harmful than vaping ot E-cogarettes.

I have never advocated the ban of any E-cigarette product.

I have never advocated allowing their use by anyone under the age of 18 (eighteen).

I do advocate their control to that end by the ATF.

I'm certainly not in favor of allowing the product to enter the black market.

It should be controlled and taxed in accordance with other "sin taxed products" imposed by governments worldwide.

For whatever self serving purpose or pleasure @James00007 derives from it he feels compelled to serial post on the topic, despite the fact this his views, opinions, and addictions, can serve no purpose in this venue, other than annoy his fellow members.

I have suggested to @James00007 that he subject and direct his "enthusiasm, influence, force of will, and what have you", into an arena where it stands, at least in some minuscule way, to have an impact. Alas, to no avail.

My suggestion to you @xxLCxx is to simply to abandon any of this type of thread where he appears. That's how I dealt with the last one, which was basically the same topic. It's either that, or face an impenetrable deluge of pro vaping narrative, from someone who claims to have gallons of vaping fluid stored in his refrigerator.

Well, survivalists store supplies and bullets in case of Armageddon, in that sense, this is senselessly no different.

@mailpup Here's some light morning reading, de nada.<(You're welcome).

 

[MaXtor]

This is an e-cigarette selling forum. What a mob.

It's because people who educate themselves about vaping are fed up with the lies and propaganda we constantly see regurgitated by the average joe. Unfortunately the public has been spoon fed and then deep throated lies for years.

 

[captaincranky]

It's because people who educate themselves about vaping are fed up with the lies and propaganda we constantly see regurgitated by the average joe. Unfortunately the public has been spoon fed and then deep throated lies for years.]

I honestly don't pay much attention to anti- or pro vaping propaganda. To me, that it's less dangerous than than smoking should be self evident. Anybody who's had to repaint a white wall after being or living with a smoker, has to be monumentally stupid not to be able to figure that out on their own.

For me though, vaping is just prolonging the basic addiction to nicotine.

I'm still sticking to my opinion about nicotine being a junk high. Or in different terms, the pleasure derived from ingesting nicotine, is disproportionately small, when compared to the depth of the addictive traction which the drug gains. (In this I'm referring to the N tobacum species commonly cultivated in the US).

I'll spare myself and you the links, but I believe vaping materials are being drawn from a more potent species of Nicotiana, N rustica, more than the common variety, N Tabacum. The stronger varieties are used for ceremonial purposes in some cultures. China has a huge extraction lab. N rustica may have been what gave the "peace pipes" their kick.

Feel free to fact check any of that.

 

[MaXtor]

That is a fair criticism. I for one am an example of that idea since I have been vaping for 8 years as of January (I had previously smoked a pack+ a day for 6 years). While new research on nicotine (nicotine patches, gum, etc) is contradicting a lot of previous research on nicotine which was done in the context of smoking cigarettes. Research is still being conducted and more research will be required. This video outlines some of that new research:

[Disclaimer: Personal Experience]
From my own experience having been a smoker and now a vaper: I will say that as a vaper, not vaping is infinitely easier than not smoking was as a smoker. I lost my vape the first day of a two week vacation in Cuba, I just didn't vape. I can remember being a smoker and not having a cigarette for more than an hour and I'd lose f'ing my mind.

I find my addiction to vaping to be very similar to my caffeine addiction, which is why I find the research comparing the two most digestible. I drink 3 to 4 mugs of coffee a day, going without coffee makes for a rough morning, however it's manageable and pales in comparison to going without smoking while I was a smoker.

 

[James00007]

First lets not forget some famous quotes from @captaincranky (self appointed representative of techspot) from the previous thread.

Nobody here cares.

Get this through your head, I simply don't care how many people die from cigarettes.

the simple fact that "all men must die", (with apologies to GoT), and world population is out of control. Now apparently, you can either slow down Homo sapiens reproduction, or do it the hard way, and kill them off with tobacco.

At least gives a basis for the attitude towards this subject from the beloved member @captaincranky

It should be controlled and taxed in accordance with other "sin taxed products" imposed by governments worldwide.

When you remove all the harm from smoking where is the sin?

For me though, vaping is just prolonging the basic addiction to nicotine.

"Addiction" to nicotine is only a problem when it's delivered in a vehicle that kills people (smoking). It's not for you, it's for the millions of smokers that will die from smoking related disease. But please now that you involved yourself in the subject yet again, tell everyone a better way basic addiction to nicotine can be eliminated.

I have suggested to @James00007 that he subject and direct his "enthusiasm, influence, force of will, and what have you", into an arena where it stands, at least in some minuscule way, to have an impact. Alas, to no avail.

Do you know what I do outside of this forum with my "enthusiasm, influence, force of will, and what have you"? No.

A pathetic attempt to shut down open conversation and insult the relevance of yourself (justified) and this forum (unjustified).

No, this is, or rather has become, (as I have anticipated), @James00007 's soapbox..

"For whatever self serving purpose or pleasure @James00007 derives from it he feels compelled to serial post on the topic, despite the fact this his views, opinions, and addictions, can serve no purpose in this venue, other than annoy his fellow members."

Further attempts to flex some kind of superiority/privilege, that you should somehow be more deserving of peoples attention. Common theme of posts you have made on this subject here and in the previous thread, this attempt to trivialize any point that people with real knowledge on a subject make which embarrass your ridiculous views and misinformed comments.

"My suggestion to you @xxLCxx is to simply to abandon any of this type of thread where he appears. That's how I dealt with the last one, which was basically the same topic. It's either that, or face an impenetrable deluge of pro vaping narrative,"

Until the next time the topic arises where you can get in fast to spread more nonsensical viewpoints then abandon ship and throw your toys out the pram when your stance is questioned/disproved.

claims to have gallons of vaping fluid stored in his refrigerator.

Well, survivalists store supplies and bullets in case of Armageddon, in that sense, this is senselessly no different.

Which was perfectly justified, made a lot of sense and would have been senseless for me not to do so when I have the ability and knowledge to produce my e-liquid. I didn't make a bunker, I bought nicotine at higher concentrations when it was legal to do so. In my country it is no longer sold in those higher concentrations. But lets not get into international laws when you still have no grasp on your own country's laws and pending regulation in relation to this.

I have never advocated the ban of any E-cigarette product.

I have absolutely no idea where you come up with vthe idea/ your truth, that the FDA wants you smoking and not vaping. They don't want people doing either. Is that so hard to understand?

"I have absolutely no idea" the crux of the problem.
FDA is advocating the banning of E-cigarette products:

"Against backdrop of rampant teen use closed systems may have no redeeming public health value."
https://twitter.com/SGottliebFDA/status/1106137445035331584
(see other replies on the tweet but this one covers it best:
"FDA has lost its collective mind when a Commissioner states that "closed system" e-cigs "may have no redeeming public health value" after helping millions quit smoking. Facts/logic/lives don't matter 2 them. It is time 4 an outside authority 2 rein this out-of-control agency in."

"FDA tightens restrictions on e-cigarette sales and fruity flavors to stem teen vaping"
https://twitter.com/SGottliebFDA/status/1106188654131720192
(see previous link to flavour study that show that flavourings are important to adults)

"I'm certainly not in favor of allowing the product to enter the black market."

That's where it is going due to over-regulation.

when compared to the depth of the addictive traction which the drug gains. (In this I'm referring to the N tobacum species commonly cultivated in the US).

I'll spare myself and you the links, but I believe vaping materials are being drawn from a more potent species of Nicotiana, N rustica, more than the common variety, N Tabacum. The stronger varieties are used for ceremonial purposes in some cultures. China has a huge extraction lab.

It's important to know before making assumptions. Nicotine is measured in a strength for vaping e-liquid 3mg/ml, 6mg/ml, 12mg/ml, 18mg/ml and so on. Whatever the strength/potency of the material it is drawn from has no bearing on the final measurement.

"China has a huge extraction lab. N rustica may have been what gave the "peace pipes" their kick."

Irrelevant, Nicotine in in practically every vaping product that is sold internationally is not made in China.

 

[captaincranky]

Simply for the fun of the trivia, Tobacco in in the "nightshade" family of plants. These include "belladonna", or "deadly nightshade". Belladonna, ("lady fair"), got its name for being used in small doses, to dilate women's eye pupils, which was considered attractive in Renaissance times.

So: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atropa_belladonna

And here's the "Acapulco Gold", of the Nicotiana genus https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicotiana_rustica

In any case, different toxins are distributed quite differently across the nightshade family. But nicotine has evolved as a natural pesticide / predator repellent. (FWIW).

Potatoes and tomatoes are nightshades as well. In the case of potatoes, unripe tubers are alleged to be toxic.

 

[captaincranky]

When you remove all the harm from smoking where is the sin?

Duh, nicotine addtiction?

"Addiction" to nicotine is only a problem when it's delivered in a vehicle that kills people (smoking). It's not for you, it's for the millions of smokers that will die from smoking related disease. But please now that you involved yourself in the subject yet again, tell everyone a better way basic addiction to nicotine can be eliminated.

Duh, by quitting smoking cold turkey. Just walk away, period

Do you know what I do outside of this forum with my "enthusiasm, influence, force of will, and what have you"? No.

Nor do I care.

A pathetic attempt to shut down open conversation and insult the relevance of yourself (justified) and this forum (unjustified).

These articles are click bait at best, as I keep explaining. Yet you still keep beating the dead horse which is named, "drumming up support against legislation banning vaping", which is something that this forum really has no control or influence over. Go march in the streets. Write your congressman.Just stop boring me to death.

Further attempts to flex some kind of superiority/privilege, that you should somehow be more deserving of peoples attention. Common theme of posts you have made on this subject here and in the previous thread, this attempt to trivialize any point that people with real knowledge on a subject make which embarrass your ridiculous views and misinformed comments.

Boy oh boy, don't you wish you were here with me, so you could blow a vape cloud in my face to show me who's boss? I will say probably the best way to rein in a fanatic, is to trivialize their issue(s)..

Until the next time the topic arises where you can get in fast to spread more nonsensical viewpoints then abandon ship and throw your toys out the pram when your stance is questioned/disproved.

Dude, that's pretty harsh, coming from a nobody such as yourself.

Which was perfectly justified, made a lot of sense and would have been senseless for me not to do so when I have the ability and knowledge to produce my e-liquid. I didn't make a bunker, I bought nicotine at higher concentrations when it was legal to do so. In my country it is no longer sold in those higher concentrations. But lets not get into international laws when you still have no grasp on your own country's laws and pending regulation in relation to this.

Oh, so that's why your panties are in such a tight bunch?

"I have absolutely no idea" the crux of the problem.
FDA is advocating the banning of E-cigarette products:

You're telling me your running your yap at full volume against potential US legislation, and you don't even live in the US? That's the very definition of the "newsiest neighbor ever".

"Against backdrop of rampant teen use closed systems may have no redeeming public health value."

Here again, I have no interest on who dies from smoking or who is "saved by vaping". My interests run toward more superficial and mundane topics such as music, photography, the guitar, woodworking, aircraft, wildlife conservation, and have even slumped to an interest draft horses. Apologetically, I really don't have the time to follow an endless string of your "VILs" (Very Important Links), about some vaping bullsh!t.

It's important to know before making assumptions. Nicotine is measured in a strength for vaping e-liquid 3mg/ml, 6mg/ml, 12mg/ml, 18mg/ml and so on. Whatever the strength/potency of the material it is drawn from has no bearing on the final measurement.

Here, it makes sense from an economic standpoint to extract the nicotine from the strongest source possible, no matter what the final dilution might be. You have it completely backwards.

Irrelevant, Nicotine in in practically every vaping product that is sold internationally is not made in China.

Again, so what? But OTOH: https://www.hiliq.com/en < Shanghai China

You have 107 posts to your credit, 59 of which have been directed at this topic (55%). That's borderline monomaniacal, or possibly OCD,


I keep telling you, if this topic is your primary concern, (and as I stated earlier, you're not even a US resident), why waste all your energy here. For example, if you were a "right to lifer", you would think you would join an anti-abortion forum to plead your case, not a radio controlled modelers conversation.

I guess I'll get a few @Captaincrankys and ad hominem remarks back from this post, ay @James00007 ?

 

[learninmypc]

AFAIC, cigarettes, vaping, cigars all should be banned. 2nd hand smoke kills too.

 

[captaincranky]

AFAIC, cigarettes, vaping, cigars all should be banned. 2nd hand smoke kills too.

Dude, why not tell is how you really feel?

20 years ago, I might have given you an argument. But having quit that 20+ years ago, I have no problem with having the return path back to that decadence closed forever.

I will say, you're really asking for it with that post. @James00007 will be back to straighten your morally outraged a** out.

No really, if he and his friends all faced toward the west and exhaled all at once, we could have a shorter day by at least a minute or two. Or possibly put their efforts to work setting a world record blowing up hot "xxx" number of hot air balloons in the shortest time. .

 

[learninmypc]

@captaincranky , I believe its safe to say , like millions of other "*****s", I too started smoking in the early 70's because I too thought it was cool. My friends smoked.
Then the late 1980's hit & I was rolling my own, Kite menthol.
One morning in 1996 I got up, rolled me a cigarette "By Hand" not machine, & lit it up.
Gagged so bad I thought I was going to die. Tried smoking it all day, still gagged. I threw the pack away, have tried a couple times since then, but for. 98% of the last 22 years, I haven't smoked a single coffin nail at all . No more cancer sticks for me, bad enough living with 2nd hand smoke & others that don't give a damn if you like it or not.

 

[James00007]

When you remove all the harm from smoking where is the sin?
Duh, nicotine addtiction?

Duh:
"There is very little to no evidence for the abuse of nicotine when not delivered in a tobacco vehicle."
- Prof K Fagerstrom
http://nicotinepolicy.net/karl-fagerstrom/520-dependence-on-tobacco-and-nicotine

"Addiction to nicotine has never caused harm to the user or to bystanders. That is why NRT products are now recommended by the FDA and the MHRA as long-term substitutes for smoking."
- Dr K Farsalinos

"Determining that a tobacco-free nicotine-delivering product is safer than a product that delivers nicotine with thousands of tobacco smoke constituents is a fact of basic science, and anyone who challenges such a notion would probably benefit from a remedial course in basic sciences."
- Prof M Siegel

"E-cigarettes are probably about as safe as drinking coffee."
- Prof R West

"Nicotine is not the major cause of any disease associated with smoking; it’s comparable to caffeine, which is highly addictive but safely consumed in coffee, tea and cola."
- Prof B Rodu
Professor of Medicine, oral pathology specialist
2014-01-18
http://www.courier-journal.com/article/20140119/OPINION04/301190020

Duh, by quitting smoking cold turkey. Just walk away, period

Duh, there have been decades of telling people to quit and treating smokers like disgusting people. It hasn't worked. Duh, you need a better idea.

Nor do I care.

Oh, so that's why your panties are in such a tight bunch?

You're telling me your running your yap at full volume against potential US legislation, and you don't even live in the US? That's the very definition of the "newsiest neighbor ever".

Here again, I have no interest on who dies from smoking or who is "saved by vaping".

I keep telling you, if this topic is your primary concern, (and as I stated earlier, you're not even a US resident), why waste all your energy here. For example, if you were a "right to lifer", you would think you would join an anti-abortion forum to plead your case, not a radio controlled modelers conversation.

Because unlike yourself I give a **** about millions of people painfully dying of smoking related illness and unlike someone such as yourself I don't try to involve myself in disusing topics I have little/no knowledge on or interest in.

I will say probably the best way to rein in a fanatic, is to trivialize their issue(s)..

Didn't work for you in the last thread and won't work in this one.

My interests run toward more superficial and mundane topics such as music, photography, the guitar, woodworking, aircraft, wildlife conservation, and have even slumped to an interest draft horses. Apologetically, I really don't have the time to follow an endless string of your "VILs" (Very Important Links), about some vaping bullsh!t.

The question is then why involve yourself in the subject? It's just out of your need to get involved and nothing more? Because you clearly admit to have no real knowledge on it.

You have 107 posts to your credit, 59 of which have been directed at this topic (55%). That's borderline monomaniacal, or possibly OCD,

I keep telling you, if this topic is your primary concern,

Fighting the biggest cause of preventable death in society is my primary concern. Maybe one day I can be more interested in as you put it "more superficial and mundane topics" but "Apologetically, I really don't have the time to follow" them.

Here, it makes sense from an economic standpoint to extract the nicotine from the strongest source possible, no matter what the final dilution might be. You have it completely backwards.

Again, so what?

So your points on strength and china are irrelevant. It was your point. A 3mg/ml nicotine e-liquid is 3mg/ml in strength, it doesn't matter if it's from the strongest tobacco plant, from a weaker plant or from a tomato or potato.

I guess I'll get a few @Captaincrankys and ad hominem remarks back from this post, ay @James00007 ?

Said the pot to the kettle.

AFAIC, cigarettes, vaping, cigars all should be banned. 2nd hand smoke kills too.

Smoking isn't the same as vaping. You should worry more about walking down a street with traffic than second hand vaping.

https://tobaccoanalysis.blogspot.com/2017/05/vape-shop-air-sampling-by-california.html

This study adds to the evidence that under real-life conditions, "secondhand vaping" does not appear to pose any significant health risks.

Despite the claims of many anti-vaping organizations, the documented health risks of "secondhand vaping" appear to be minimal. And this is in an environment with relatively extreme conditions -- there was a visible cloud of vapor at times.

 

[captaincranky]

Duh:
"There is very little to no evidence for the abuse of nicotine when not delivered in a tobacco vehicle."
- Prof K Fagerstrom
http://nicotinepolicy.net/karl-fagerstrom/520-dependence-on-tobacco-and-nicotine

"Addiction to nicotine has never caused harm to the user or to bystanders. That is why NRT products are now recommended by the FDA and the MHRA as long-term substitutes for smoking."
- Dr K Farsalinos

"Determining that a tobacco-free nicotine-delivering product is safer than a product that delivers nicotine with thousands of tobacco smoke constituents is a fact of basic science, and anyone who challenges such a notion would probably benefit from a remedial course in basic sciences."
- Prof M Siegel

"E-cigarettes are probably about as safe as drinking coffee."
- Prof R West

"Nicotine is not the major cause of any disease associated with smoking; it’s comparable to caffeine, which is highly addictive but safely consumed in coffee, tea and cola."
- Prof B Rodu
Professor of Medicine, oral pathology specialist
2014-01-18
http://www.courier-journal.com/article/20140119/OPINION04/301190020


Duh, there have been decades of telling people to quit and treating smokers like disgusting people. It hasn't worked. Duh, you need a better idea.







Because unlike yourself I give a **** about millions of people painfully dying of smoking related illness and unlike someone such as yourself I don't try to involve myself in disusing topics I have little/no knowledge on.


Didn't work for you in the last thread and won't work in this one.



The question is then why involve yourself in the subject? It's just out of your need to get involved and nothing more? Because you clearly admit to have no real knowledge on it.



Fighting the biggest cause of preventable death in society is my primary concern. Maybe one day I can be more interested in as you put it "more superficial and mundane topics" but currently "I really don't have the time to follow" them.




So your points on strength and china are irrelevant. It was your point. A 3mg/ml nicotine e-liquid is 3mg/ml in strength, it doesn't matter if it's from the strongest tobacco plant, from a weaker plant or from a tomato or potato.


Said the pot to the kettle.



Smoking isn't the same as vaping. You should worry more about walking down a street with traffic than second hand vaping.

https://tobaccoanalysis.blogspot.com/2017/05/vape-shop-air-sampling-by-california.html

This study adds to the evidence that under real-life conditions, "secondhand vaping" does not appear to pose any significant health risks.

Despite the claims of many anti-vaping organizations, the documented health risks of "secondhand vaping" appear to be minimal. And this is in an environment with relatively extreme conditions -- there was a visible cloud of vapor at times.

Either save it, or distribute it, to someone who cares.

(BTW, I fully expected this post. You addicts are so predictable).

 

[MaXtor]

AFAIC, cigarettes, vaping, cigars all should be banned.

...because prohibition works so well? We all know how well it worked with alcohol and how well it has been working with marijuana. Especially with teenagers, they never drink or smoke pot. /sarcasm

2nd hand smoke kills too.

That's true, however second hand vapour does not. The air quality on a sidewalk in any city is vastly more dangerous to your health than second hand vapour.