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The FDA wants to restrict the sale of flavored e-cigs and vapes

By Polycount · 69 replies
Mar 13, 2019
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  1. E-cigarettes and vapes have long been touted as a safer alternative to traditional cigarettes by their makers, but the US government has still been trying its best to limit the sale of such products.

    This is primarily because regulators feel that the supposed safety and convenience of vapes and e-cigs make them more appealing to younger individuals than ordinary cigarettes would be, thus exposing far more people to some of the harmful side effects of tobacco.

    Now, the United States Food and Drug Administration (FDA) is proposing another step in its campaign to protect young people from nicotine addiction. This time around, the organization hopes to limit the sale of any electronic nicotine delivery systems (ENDS) that are flavored.

    The FDA claims "evidence shows" that more exotically-flavored e-cigs or vape liquids attract far more minors than their tobacco, mint, or menthol counterparts. As as result, the latter three flavors will be largely immune to the organization's upcoming rules.

    For better or worse, the FDA acknowledges that their new proposal could damage the market. "We expect that some flavored e-cigarette products will no longer be sold at all," the regulatory agency said in a statement.

    Regardless, the FDA clearly hopes that cracking down on the sale of flavored ENDS will reduce nicotine addiction in the long run; even if the short-term market damage is tough for companies and the public to swallow.

    Image courtesy Vaping360, Kaiser Health News

    Permalink to story.

     
  2. m4a4

    m4a4 TS Evangelist Posts: 1,352   +865

    If it only targets nicotine, then who cares. Just continue selling the non-nicotine version...

    ...Not that the kids that want nicotine added won't just find another way lol
     
  3. QuantumPhysics

    QuantumPhysics TS Guru Posts: 611   +397

    I personally am disgusted by the garbage these foreign stores are selling in my community.
     
    learninmypc likes this.
  4. psycros

    psycros TS Evangelist Posts: 2,514   +2,212

    Nicotine, while damaging in the long run and highly addictive, is not even in the same league as the rest of the LITERAL POISON that constitutes most tobacco products. Meanwhile, no restrictions on energy drinks or caffeine whatsoever. And guess what - you already have to be 18 in most places to buy nicotine products of any kind, so this changes literally nothing.
     
    lostinlodos likes this.
  5. treetops

    treetops TS Evangelist Posts: 2,358   +403

    Nicotine is literally poison, I smoke, but would actually be happy if they banned all nicotine products. It was used as a pesticide until 2014.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicotine

    I recently got this little note in my Marlboro pack. It's really a scourge on society. If it kills more people then all ILLEGAL drugs combined, why not ban it just like those drugs.

    [​IMG]
     
  6. DongBeetle

    DongBeetle TS Rookie

    When "the market" is literally selling poison to our kids, who the **** cares about that market? God damn the companies and people who would profit from addiction and death!
     
    xxLCxx likes this.
  7. yRaz

    yRaz Nigerian Prince Posts: 2,715   +1,951

    It's not the market selling poison to your kids, it's people buying this stuff for them. Further, nictoine is actually fairly harmless aside from being addicting. It's the other crap in cigarettes that cause cancer, high blood pressure and heart disease. I quit my nicotine addiction because I had the ability to control the dosage of nicotine going into my body.

    So rather than blame the companies and make the products harder to access by people who can legally consent to using a product, punish the *******s who are buying them for your kids.
     
    James00007 likes this.
  8. captaincranky

    captaincranky TechSpot Addict Posts: 14,519   +3,702

    DISCLAIMER: I'm not defending the use of nicotine in any way, shape, or form.

    Nicotine (by some pro-vaping sources ?), isn't as toxic as it was once thought to be. Additionally, I believe its most toxic effect would be by oral or injected means,

    However, it does have very few positive effects, other than the fact it suppresses appetite, and is arguably a mood elevator.

    All of that notwithstanding, it is a junk high without much in the way of perceived effect after it gains traction in your mind.. To paraphrase an old adage, "you barely sense you're living with it, but you can't live without it".

    To go back to the issue of pesticides, take note that hydrogen cyanide was once used as a pesticide as well. Under the brand name, "Zyclon B", it was the gas responsible for the death of six million Jews in Hitler's concentration camps. Hydrogen cyanide was also what powered The gas chambers of sunny California.

    (Oh well better there than Utah, I suppose, where you once had the choice of death by hanging, or the firing squad).

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zyklon_B

    The LD-50 number of Xyclon B was somewhere in the neighborhood of 1 or 2. By contrast, the now banned Malathion has an LD -50 of about 500. Believe it or not, depending on route of absorption, nicotine falls somewhere in between.
     
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2019
    Lurker101 and treetops like this.
  9. Axiarus

    Axiarus TS Evangelist Posts: 388   +219

    Of course. Can't have vapes cutting into the tobacco company's profits. Cut the feet off vaping so it is less enjoyable.
     
  10. imdarkbreeze

    imdarkbreeze TS Member Posts: 21   +13

    What everybody, the Feds included, are missing is this. If they do this, they are simply going to force the products onto the underground black market. That is not what ANYBODY needs to have happen. At least currently, they CAN regulate WHAT is used in e-juice and if necessary enforce more stringent guidelines for it's sales.

    On the black market, they'll have about as much success as they had with the "War on drugs" which was and always will be a complete and dismal failure. If they think the nicotine is poisonous, wait until those same kids start buying black market e-juice with God knows what in it. No way to regulate that.

    Can you imagine thousands of teens smoking lead tainted or other seriously toxic tainted e-juices that come from who knows where. Not to mention, opening up another unregulated illegal market, for the same low life's that have pushed a variety of far worse addictions onto our streets for decades. Great, another source of income for exactly the scumbags we've spend trillions trying to eradicate.

    Either ban nicotine containing products entirely, including the farming and sales of all tobacco, or regulate all derivative products in a way that at least somewhat reduces the risk of serious and rapid death that is likely to occur from black market products.
     
    Lurker101 likes this.
  11. Bubbajim

    Bubbajim TechSpot Staff Posts: 594   +579

    I hope you're not suggesting that we as a society learn from the evidence of our past, that's just crazy talk.
     
  12. xxLCxx

    xxLCxx TS Addict Posts: 173   +113

    *Uhmm* - about the nicotine: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9162447
    How smoking affects blood pressure
    ... It has since long been known that blood pressure and heart rate increase during smoking. These effects are specifically associated with nicotine while the other components of which more than a thousand have been isolated seem to be of minor importance. ...
     
  13. xxLCxx

    xxLCxx TS Addict Posts: 173   +113

    Did you fail to notice that the tobacco companies have been (and continue to) taking over that segment?
     
  14. captaincranky

    captaincranky TechSpot Addict Posts: 14,519   +3,702

    Well caffeine will do the same damned thing.

    Although, I've found I can live without nicotine, but not without my coffee.

    That would seem in indicate that caffeine is more addictive than nicotine. That can't be true, can it?:confused:
     
    MaXtor likes this.
  15. xxLCxx

    xxLCxx TS Addict Posts: 173   +113

    "Caffeine can cause a short, but dramatic increase in your blood pressure, even if you don't have high blood pressure."
    This is even seen as healthy (similar to sport), whereas this: http://www.scielo.br/scielo.php?pid=S0066-782X2006001700016&script=sci_arttext&tlng=en
    Twenty-four hour blood pressure record for smokers and nonsmokers
    ...
    CONCLUSION: Mean daytime systolic and diastolic blood pressure readings were consistently higher in the smokers when compared to nonsmokers regardless of antihypertension medication use.
    ...
    can get you killed (as shown by numerous statistics).
     
  16. xxLCxx

    xxLCxx TS Addict Posts: 173   +113

    Nice, some admin edited this to screw up the post completely (it was okay 5 minutes ago). This happened before.

    Here in a readable version (until it gets f-up as well):

    This is even seen as healthy (similar to sport), whereas this:
    http://www.scielo.br/scielo.php?pid=S0066-782X2006001700016&script=sci_arttext&tlng=en Twenty-four hour blood pressure record for smokers and nonsmokers
    ...
    CONCLUSION: Mean daytime systolic and diastolic blood pressure readings were consistently higher in the smokers when compared to nonsmokers regardless of antihypertension medication use.
    ...
    can get you killed (as shown by numerous statistics).
     
  17. MaXtor

    MaXtor TS Maniac Posts: 234   +167

    Banning flavours hurts adults more than it helps teenagers. Adults like flavours too. The reason vaping is so effective for quitting smoking is because of flavours. Teenagers are going to experiment no matter what, that's what teenagers do. While they shouldn't smoke or vape, I would much rather they experiment with vaping being that it is minimally 95% safer than smoking (and much less addictive).

    Caffeine can also be used as a pesticide. Nicotine on it's own in it's diluted state (0.05% to at most 5%) found in e liquid is relatively harmless. Nicotine's addictiveness is directly comparible to that of Caffeine - when it's _not_ combined with Ammonia which is added to cigarettes (making smoking significantly more addictive).

    Latest studies show incredible similarities between Caffeine and Nicotine. Both may prevent Parkinsons and Alzeimers. Both are stimulants. Both can be hard on your heart if you're old or have heart issues. Teenagers and old people should not be consuming either of them.

    Teenagers are notorious for consuming alcohol as well. Should we ban flavoured alcohol?
     
    Dylan Perry likes this.
  18. captaincranky

    captaincranky TechSpot Addict Posts: 14,519   +3,702

    Lawmakers are prone to making laws, that's why we elect them. Most of their kidz are likely in rehab or shooting skag. Sh!t rolls downhill, and this legislation is likely transference.

    But face it, very few would vote for them, if they didn't adopt the posturing,values, and machinations, of helicopter parents far and wide.

    I'm old, and I sort of cheat by forgoing my coffee when I have my checkups. After I get the 120/70 all clear, I fire up a pot of columbian. (y) (Y) I have no immediate or long term goals of quitting coffee. But after quitting smoking 20+ years ago, I have no interest in vaping, flavored or otherwise.

    This is already the case in Russia. I think the only alcoholic beverage available is Vodka, which for all intents and purposes is an analog of drinking medical alcohol
     
    MaXtor likes this.
  19. MaXtor

    MaXtor TS Maniac Posts: 234   +167

    I found this Twitter exchange with America's Surgeon General quite interesting:

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2019
    captaincranky likes this.
  20. captaincranky

    captaincranky TechSpot Addict Posts: 14,519   +3,702

    A direct relationship between ingesting caffeine and sport can't really be drawn.

    Exercise causes the systolic pressure to rise, with a collateral drop in diastolic pressure. Adrenaline is a vasodilator, and is responsible for that drop.

    Both caffeine and nicotine are vasoconstrictors.

    I did a quick copy and paste on the topic
    Caffeine, nicotine, ethanol and tetrahydrocannabinol (THC) are ..... contractility,vasoconstriction and a rise in blood pressure and the level of ...
    Abstract · ‎Caffeine · ‎Nicotine · ‎Tetrahydrocannabinol.

    Yeah, weed does the same damned thing.

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3878772/
     
    MaXtor likes this.
  21. captaincranky

    captaincranky TechSpot Addict Posts: 14,519   +3,702

    @MaXtor I have absolutely no idea how I hijacked your attachment...I'm completely clueless..:confused::facepalm::laughing: I'm pleading non compos mentis

    When I hit the back button, I thought you gave yourself a like on the Twitter feed.

    (I think the mods fixed it).
     
  22. xxLCxx

    xxLCxx TS Addict Posts: 173   +113

    The amount of trolling here is astounding.
    No, we don't have thousands of caffeine deaths each year. People who die from tobacco don't necessarily all die from cancer. Many die, because of the elevated blood pressure due to the nicotine consumption.
    But go on, spread your feces...
     
    captaincranky likes this.
  23. imdarkbreeze

    imdarkbreeze TS Member Posts: 21   +13


    And on that note, if anybody were actually concerned with THAT part of the equation, then it WOULD stand to reason that you REGULATE the levels that are legally salable. Ban sales of levels that are higher than 6mg, eradicating the 8mg, 12mg and 24mg content e-juices. There are ways to mitigate the danger from high levels of elevated blood pressure due to high levels of nictotine, although they pretty much allow actual cigarette manufacturers to actually SPRAY tobacco with nicotine to increase the levels so I'm not sure that from a health standpoint it's a valid argument.

    The fact that the tobacco mafia also adds VERY harmful chemicals like ammonia to it REALLY negates ANY idea that this is something they are wanting to do in an effort to decrease health issues, at all, else they'd be targeting tobacco first with strict regulation to eliminate the addition of harmful chemicals that are not necessary for keeping the tobacco "fresh" nor are a natural part of it in regard to nicotine levels.

    The only trolls that matter are the ones making decisions regarding what people can do without using common sense or actual consideration when doing it.
     
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2019
  24. MaXtor

    MaXtor TS Maniac Posts: 234   +167

    And I'm the one spreading feces?

    I mentioned both are hard on your heart. There are certainly thousands of caffeine overdoses, albeit they almost never result in a death. There will certainly be similar nicotine overdoses with vaping. And that does seem more likely with the nicotine levels that are being reached with new nicotine salt devices. Some as high as 5% per mL (50mg) in mouth to lung devices (less vapour produced), comparitively the previous max was around 2.4% or 24mg (due to intense harshness), and sub ohm users (cloud makers) generally around 0.3% or 3mg.

    The potential danger here is using nicotine salts in sub ohm devices, producing much more vapour and consuming much higher levels of nicotine. That of course is not recommended, but people do stupid things all the time. The same reason you hear about vaping devices exploding, that's generally because someone decided to use a vaping device meant for advanced users without any knowledge of ohms law (using a battery rated for 10amps in a device drawing 40amps).
     
  25. imdarkbreeze

    imdarkbreeze TS Member Posts: 21   +13

    Batteries are a whole other issue. Not relevant. Regulate battery manufacturers and sales to fix that problem. Cars, hover boards and plenty of other devices have problems with exploding batteries or spontaneous fires. It's due to poor quality control, has nothing to do with either inherent health risks or flavors attracting kids.

    Has little (But some) to do with mismatched components either. Plenty of these are due to bad electronics that simply ignite spontaneously, not while vaping. I'm sure that happens, but so do things like tools and other electronics when used with cheap quality batteries, cells or electronic circuitry.
     

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